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Introducing new puppy
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27-08-2014 11:41am#1
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HungryFish wrote: »Science plan
Ok well that's why he's mad :P - Hills is full of cheap fillers. If you do a search you'll find tons of food threads with suggestions of much better foods which should help calm him a bit
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HungryFish wrote: »Really? I thought husse was really good. My last dog (don't kill me) always had pedigree chum. I know now that it's not good at all. When I changed him to husse, he became more energetic and his coat became lovely and white. They're on science plan now because that was what breeder was feeding. I don't understand why vets sell food if it's so bad! I'm going to have to do some research…thanks
The food that vets sell isn't 'so bad', it is nutritionally sufficient for your dog. My vet sells a wide variety of food, including Burns which is a good food. If you have used a food previously, and you were happy with it, then I don't see any reason for you to change. Food is very contentious on here, I asked previously if anyone posting had any animal nutrition training, and nobody replied, so I guess not, so its basically what they prefer, and what they have learnt, usually from the interweb.Personally I wouldn’t feed my dog certain food as its sold by the VET, while the may have good medical advice (you hope) they do not weigh heavily on nutrition at all.
Like most vets sell either Royal Canin & Hills (both poor quality) and Burns (ok quality), but remember they get commission / kick back to sell the food and that’s why they do it etc.. DEF stay clear of the like of maxi zoo or supermarkets for dog food, commercial dog food is usually very poor quality
your head will be melted once you start researching certain foods…. just some word of advice… do not even consider food that states “crude” protein, ash … or animals derivatives, or fillers, all really poor quality.
You could also look at feeding your dogs the “raw” diet….
I fed my dog burns for about 6 years (it was ok quality, I thought at the time it was great), with some substitutes Ie salmon oil a teaspoon daily, sardines, boiled chicken a few days a week…
I then moved on to Taste of the wild (grain free) I found it great but in recent months I’ve moved him onto boiled chicken with carrots, parsnip, broccoli (small amount), peas, cauliflowers etc… or boiled mince beef with the same.
Again salmon oil mixed in every second day for his joints and coat and he’s never been better. He gets fed twice a day….
I still add taste of the wild in some days if he’s been very active etc., but he’s doing great, he adores his food, in all honesty it does cost me more each week, but he’s happy = Im happy.
zooplus is a great site for all things animal!
Why would you advise somebody not to go to Maxi Zoo, its a pet shop, with a wide variety of dog food
They sell one particular food that is around €90 for 15kg, and is sold basically on the same premise as taste of the wild etc.
Do you know what ash means on a dog food label?
Do you think that pet shops and websites sell food at cost? I can't understand this thing about how bad it is that vets make money on food they sell. Of course they do, just like every single vendor does, otherwise why would they do it? The salmon oil you buy, do you get it cost? Why do you not object to the person selling that making money on it? Surely if a vet can make money on food, pet products etc, it can help to keep the cost of treatment down?0 -
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The food that vets sell isn't 'so bad', it is nutritionally sufficient for your dog. My vet sells a wide variety of food, including Burns which is a good food. If you have used a food previously, and you were happy with it, then I don't see any reason for you to change. Food is very contentious on here, I asked previously if anyone posting had any animal nutrition training, and nobody replied, so I guess not, so its basically what they prefer, and what they have learnt, usually from the interweb.
Why would you advise somebody not to go to Maxi Zoo, its a pet shop, with a wide variety of dog food They sell one particular food that is around €90 for 15kg, and is sold basically on the same premise as taste of the wild etc.
Do you know what ash means on a dog food label?
Do you think that pet shops and websites sell food at cost? I can't understand this thing about how bad it is that vets make money on food they sell. Of course they do, just like every single vendor does, otherwise why would they do it? The salmon oil you buy, do you get it cost? Why do you not object to the person selling that making money on it? Surely if a vet can make money on food, pet products etc, it can help to keep the cost of treatment down?
Not too sure why you’re getting a bee in your bonnet, I’m entitled to my opinion…
I never said vet were not allowed to make money from the food the sell… I said they don’t always sell good nutritional food.
Never in my post did I say I got my salmon oil for cost price?? infact I don’t believe I mention cost price anywhere. I did say I found zooplus very good and I stand by that….
Also I stand by what said about pet shops and maxi zoo… a lot of the food they sell is rubbish…. the staff (99% are students) are not qualified to give advice so the recommend any brand etc… just because its pricey doesn’t mean its good (im sure you already agree with this)
again my opinion, you are also entitled to your muddy paws democracy and all that.
OP…. research the best brand to suit your dog and your budget…. look up ingredients and nutrituonal value… these should help you decide.0 -
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OP, rule of thumb with dry dog food is that the main ingredient should be a meat product. The cheaper foods and supermarket brands are all full of cereal fillers and usually make up the bulk of the food. You'll always see on a bag of pedigree that it says it's "complete" and "with chicken/beef". Read the small print and there's 4% meat and the main ingredient is cereals. When a food is full of fillers such as cereals you have to feed more of it to ensure the dog gets enough of the recommended nutritional requirement so a cheap food will just goes through the dog and you'll be picking up large (probably sloppy) poos. Get a decent, usually more expensive food and the portion sizes will be smaller, and the poos should be better due to better quality ingredients. The bag will last longer too, making it better value in the long run. Although bear in mind that some dogs don't suit certain foods, even the most expensive of foods, so it's wise to try small bags of a few brands before splashing out on a big bag.
I personally feed my dogs raw/fresh food, but look after plenty of dry fed dogs, and have to pick up plenty of poo
. I know exactly who's done what poo going on consistency and size based on what they're fed, and the cheaper foods don't fare well in the poo stakes:o 0 -
HungryFish wrote: »There's no need for everyone to get up in a heap!! :-) it's only dog food!!
Dried Chicken & Turkey (min 30%), Rice (20%), Wholegrain Maize, Dehulled Oats, Poultry Fat, Maize Gluten, Sugar Beet Pulp, Chicken Gravy, Fish Meal, Egg, Linssed, Fish Oil, Potassium Chloride, Fructooligosaccharides (0.3%), TruCal Milk Mineral Complex, Products from processing plants
Any good?
Exactly
That looks alright. Bear in mind that pups generally need a fattier food, as they are growing, and need the energy for that. Dogs get their energy from fat, not the protein as a lot of people think, so check the fat (may be labelled as oils) levels on the food.0 -
Not too sure why you’re getting a bee in your bonnet, I’m entitled to my opinion…
I never said vet were not allowed to make money from the food the sell… I said they don’t always sell good nutritional food.
Never in my post did I say I got my salmon oil for cost price?? infact I don’t believe I mention cost price anywhere. I did say I found zooplus very good and I stand by that….
Also I stand by what said about pet shops and maxi zoo… a lot of the food they sell is rubbish…. the staff (99% are students) are not qualified to give advice so the recommend any brand etc… just because its pricey doesn’t mean its good (im sure you already agree with this)
again my opinion, you are also entitled to your muddy paws democracy and all that.
OP…. research the best brand to suit your dog and your budget…. look up ingredients and nutrituonal value… these should help you decide.
You said that vets receive commission/kick back, which I think is a dreadful thing to say, as it implies that they are corrupt in some way. They sell products, just like other vendors, why not just see it like that?
I know all of the staff at a few maxi-zoos, and none of them are students. The staff there also do have nutritional training, yes, they may be encouraged to sell certain brands, but they do have training, from different sources. I would guess that training would be more than the people who send out the orders and run the website of zooplus, which is a pet shop, just an online, rather than a bricks and mortar one 0 -
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You said that vets receive commission/kick back, which I think is a dreadful thing to say, as it implies that they are corrupt in some way. They sell products, just like other vendors, why not just see it like that?
I know all of the staff at a few maxi-zoos, and none of them are students. The staff there also do have nutritional training, yes, they may be encouraged to sell certain brands, but they do have training, from different sources. I would guess that training would be more than the people who send out the orders and run the website of zooplus, which is a pet shop, just an online, rather than a bricks and mortar one
what are you talking about a ""dreadful thing to say" they do get comission.... corrupt??? again... what????????
did i even say those words and no i wasnt implying anything... i said they get comission... eh and the funny thing is THEY DO!! Simple as....
Not even getting into the Maxi zoo debate... i know of two Naas and Bray and its exactlty as i said above...
again i know your a zooplus hater (or so you come accross).... but id rather buy my goods there...
hmmmm looks like somebody got out of the wrong side of the bed today.... take a chill pilll... and one from Maxi zoo of course and not zooplus heaven forbid!! :pac: 0 -
what are you talking about a ""dreadful thing to say" they do get comission.... corrupt??? again... what????????
did i even say those words and no i wasnt implying anything... i said they get comission... eh and the funny thing is THEY DO!! Simple as....
Not even getting into the Maxi zoo debate... i know of two Naas and Bray and its exactlty as i said above...
again i know your a zooplus hater (or so you come accross).... but id rather buy my goods there...
hmmmm looks like somebody got out of the wrong side of the bed today.... take a chill pilll... and one from Maxi zoo of course and not zooplus heaven forbid!! :pac:
Re-read your post, you said kick back, which does imply corruption. All vendors buy things at one price and sell at a higher, its how businesses survive. The vets will do the same with the drugs they administer, so not sure why other products within their premises should be seen in a different way.
I'd really appreciate if you could find one example of anything I've ever said against zooplus. Weird that I would buy stuff from there if I hated it 0 -
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Re-read your post, you said kick back, which does imply corruption. All vendors buy things at one price and sell at a higher, its how businesses survive. The vets will do the same with the drugs they administer, so not sure why other products within their premises should be seen in a different way.
I'd really appreciate if you could find one example of anything I've ever said against zooplus. Weird that I would buy stuff from there if I hated it
oh here we go again...
I'm out of this thread now... muddypaws the floor is all yours....enjoy!0 -
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I think, in fairness, it's not as simple as that.
People buy certain brands from the vet because it's the vet that's selling it, and because there is a belief that it *must* be the best because the vet is selling it, even when it's really not that wonderful a food.
No other professional in the animal industry has this level of nuanced and not-so-nuanced influence on what pet owners buy for their pets to eat... it's not a level playing field because they have a captive market.
And I'm only talking about passive selling... having the food on display for owners to draw conclusions about how good it must be as the vet is selling it. I do not include in this the huge influence of the vet actively pushing the foods they sell to owners, despite that food not actually being the best the owner could buy for the same money.
This effect, that people are more likely to buy from their vet because he/she's a vet, is utterly capitalised upon by some food companies that market their food as "recommended by vets", "created by vets" etc
Vets can sell what they like for profit, of course they can, but the cynical side of me does not much like the way they use the influence they know they have, to sell products that owners believe are better than they are... because the vet sold the product to them.
My vet sells collars, leads, toys etc. A lot of the stuff, I wouldn't trust, so won't buy from them. They sell a very wide range of food, Massbrook, Burns, Hills, Propac etc, so its up to the customer to choose which is in their price range and which they want. They also have the option of different wormers, from named brands to generic, again, giving the customer the choice. They also sell electric collars
But the thing is, if it says created by vets, then it was, Burns was (is?) a vet, same as the founder of Royal Canin. I just think that there is enough information out there for people to make their own mind up. Same as vaccinations now I think, some vets say annual boosters, other say not, its up to the pet owner to listen and make their own mind up. 0 -
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People can make their own informed decisions, but the trouble is if their vet is encouraging them to feed x food (which he happens to sell), then they *think* they are making an informed decision already. But they're not, because if the vet also sells the food(s) he's recommending, then the information gained towards making the decision is seriously biased.
I would say that at least half (I think I'm being conservative) of owners I talk to have their dog on the food it's on, because their vet both recommended, and sold it. The fact that the vet sells more than one brand is immaterial, my point is that vets do enjoy significant influence over what food owners select, whether the food is rubbish or not.
My point exactly... Although put a lot better than my posts 0 -
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But do you believe that the vet is selling a product dishonestly then, that they don't actually believe that it is a good food?
No, I don't believe they're being dishonest. That's making too big a leap from what I've said, which is that vets have far greater influence over the foods and products people buy than any other pet professional, because they're vets.
I'm quite sure they believe it's a good food, based on what they've been told about that food by the company that sells it. Does that mean it is a good food? Of course not. That doesn't make the vet dishonest. Misled perhaps, but not dishonest.You should spend time in a pet shop, and watch the interaction between staff and customers. So many people listen to the staff and trust that they know what they are talking about, the same as with a vet.
I have little doubt that many owners listen to pet shop staff, but I don't believe for a moment that pet shop staff have anywhere near the same degree of influence over what their customers buy than vets do.
The standard answer I get from at least 50% of owners when asked what they feed their dogs is "it's that good food the vet sells", or they'll be able to call it by brand name, but they always qualify it by saying they bought it from their vet.
For the record, and remembering that many have actually had a degree of training in nutrition and the interactions between diet and behaviour, dog behaviour associations forbid their members from pushing ANY product on a client.
Personally, I feel pretty uncomfortable about selling any particular behavioural product, because I don't want to put clients into the position that many vets do.Here's a question for you, do you buy the toothpaste that your dentist recommends and sells?
I do buy the product my dentist recommends specifically because it is one of few products that sufficiently treats a problem I have with my teeth.
But, he does not sell any dental products. He does give me various free samples of mouthwash and the like that some of the reps leave with him though
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