New bass policy, new regulations..

danbrosnan

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

mattcullen

I don’t really know enough about our bass stocks to know how vulnerable they are to angling pressure. I’m hoping we learn more from the tagging project in Cork. There does seem to be a theory that they are very loyal to the same areas and return to them each season. I don’t catch a lot of bass but I do tend to find I catch them on quite specific marks at quite specific states of the tide. This leads me to be believe that they are creatures of habit and, being somewhat predictable in that respect, are particularly vulnerable to poaching and sustained angling pressure.

It’s hard to make sense of what’s happening in Ireland with bass catches declining in many areas. In England they have sustained commercial pressure which you would imagine would have to be greater than that of the illegal fishery here and yet I, perhaps wrongly, get the impression from catch reports on other forums that they catch greater numbers of bass if a little smaller on average than we do here.

It’s been suggested that our stock is different to theirs, is distinct to this country, and doesn’t have the same level of recruitment. If it is the case that we have a small, highly vulnerable, stock of bass I wouldn’t rule out the possibility that increased angling pressure on them over the last number of years has had an impact. From what I hear, netting is rife around the coast. I have no idea what kind of numbers of bass the netters could be pulling in so perhaps I’m way off the mark. Maybe what anglers catch and kill is a drop in the ocean in comparison???

In summary, we just don’t seem to have enough facts. I think we should be looking for greater enforcement of the law as a first priority. In areas where netting is rife I would like to see anglers trained to assist the IFI to gather evidence if it’s safe for them to do so. However, I have no problem with reducing the bag limit and increasing the minimum landing size. I think it’s probably good practice anyhow. One bass a day is surely more than enough for most of us? That said, I would be concerned that these changes are perceived to have ‘sorted out’ any issues that are there and delay, or prevent, any real action been taken on enforcement of the legislation already in place.

counterlock

I'm in favour of the new changes, like the previous poster was saying, one bass is enough for anyone in 24hours. What I would like to see is that if they are going to all this effort to introduce new laws, that they are policed properly.

stylie

Making it look like they are doing something to protect the Bass and attacking the angler. Last year two Irish brother were caught netting Bass, they had half a dozen on them, boat confiscated petty fine imposed, boat was a worthless punt anyway. All the time in a quay down the coast an English boat was pulled in with boxes of Bass nothing done, you think they caught those fish outside our waters ?
Fish around Cork harbor at night time or some of the beaches along side it and you will see boats working a few 100m off shore and it aint shell fish they are after. They should concentrate on the big issue and not some pr exercise.

danbrosnan

stylie wrote: »

Making it look like they are doing something to protect the Bass and attacking the angler. Last year two Irish brother were caught netting Bass, they had half a dozen on them, boat confiscated petty fine imposed, boat was a worthless punt anyway. All the time in a quay down the coast an English boat was pulled in with boxes of Bass nothing down, you think they caught those fish outside our waters ?
Fish around Cork harbor at night time or some of the beaches along side it and you will see boats working a few 100m off shore and it aint shell fish they are after. They should concentrate on the big issue and not some pr exercise.

I agree with you there, the regulations in place for anglers at the moment I believe are sufficient, they are not being policed at the moment and with the widespread illegal poaching, I think it's actually quite ignorant to try and bring new regulations...

Bio Mech

I would support any regulation that prevents unnecessary killing of an apex predator species.

Enforcement is a different issue but, in theory , I agree with this. It makes ecological sense.

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I would support any regulation that prevents unnecessary killing of an apex predator species.

Enforcement is a different issue but, in theory , I agree with this. It makes ecological sense.

That's a very fair and honest post, fair play...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

I should be banned from fishing that's a first, look I made the post to see the overall mindset....

I gave all the options available for people to contribute in the poll...

Down here in kerry the beaches are at times full of bass, seriously I think on the east coast there is a serious problem with the environment, pollution number one and poaching... It's obvious there is bigger problems in the Irish Sea then obviously the Atlantic...

Over fishing is huge also in the Irish Sea, English boats, European boats all these problems are very serious for the bass in your locality's..

There is no need to attack me because believe me I have a good reason to voice my opinion...

It's actually insane to repeat the same activity over and over and over again...

It's insane to recommend a change when in the first place the laws we already have care not being adhered to...

I truly believe the IFI are at fault for the lack of bass on the east coast, not the anglers, it is not possible for anglers to cause a collapse in a fish stocks...

You need to look at the overall scheme of things, we are talking about oceans and seas, a rod and line is like a grain of sand in that, people are going to go mental with me saying that, a trawler with miles of net is the problem, thousands of illegal nets tied along every inch of our coast is the problem, pollution is the problem...

It's just my opinion that instead of drastic measures being taking on anglers why not do yer jobs properly in the first place... That's all.... Don't blame me for my opinion, blame the people who's job it is to protect our bass...

flounder

I agree 1 is enough to take home. But as already stated who will enforce it. I have never seen any fisheries officer on any beach. While proper anglers are putting the fish back most will take as many as they catch.
That's where the problem starts

mattcullen

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Attack on anglers lmao.... If you believe this is an attack on anglers you should be banned from fishing... I live in Dublin and spent 3 years trying to target them on the Dublin coast, Iv got 2 in them 3 year....

They need as much protection as they can get, I would even support an out right catch and release policy on Bass.

Worth keeping a diary of when you catch and what worked. Once you get the first few on a mark, you've got a good chance of getting them again in similar conditions. Then you can move on and try a new mark, all states of the tide, different baits and lures etc and so on. You'll soon build up some knowledge on a few spots and what works where...can feel a bit tiresome at times when you keep blanking but it makes it all the more worthwhile when it comes together!

On the subject of poaching, has anyone got any idea how much these lads are netting? Probably a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string ?' question but i would personally like to know how the impact from angling compares. With other species that tend to be further offshore or shoal constantly I'd agree that anglers make very little difference. With bass in Ireland, whilst I'd like to think that it is also the case with them, I'm not so sure. I've heard experienced boat anglers say they pretty much always catch them close to shore which puts them within reach of anglers a lot of the time. Combined with their tendency to frequent relatively specific areas at particular seasons/states of tide, I think they are a little vulnerable. Certainly seems that way when you see word get out on a mark and then you see it getting hammered.

Don't get me wrong I love fishing for them and I do keep some fish to eat myself. I'm in no way hardline on C&R and I think we do need to tackle the poaching first and foremost but I also welcome the new measures for anglers.

One other thing I think is worth mentioning is that the scarcity of other edible fish of a decent size (on the east coast anyhow) is a big factor in the popularity of bass. If our sea fishery was in a healthier state in general, I think it would take some of the pressure of Bass. In that sense I think it's in sea anglers interest to campaign for protection of all sea fish and not just bass

KAI.Fundraiser

When it comes to bass it is possable for anglers to do damage to the population, they are like salmon, they spawn in the same place every year... And they come inshore to spawn. They take 5 years before they are able to spawn... It takes about 15 years to get to about 10lbs.. Thats why they are so rare now.

And I did not attack you, I reacted to your comment that its the angler that's at a loss here. Any sort of conservation measures is good in my eyes, once they are enforced. Remember in the 80s most of the bass were nearly wiped out in Ireland.

And as for "Down here in Kerry the beaches are at times full of bass" you must be one lucky man because I know some very well known Guides down there and they are worried about the stocks. Wexford was once the mecca of bass, Now you really have to work at it to get one.

danbrosnan

I'm not lying as far as I am concerned it's been an excellent year for sea bass for me anyway...

So we the anglers are to blame so for the declining stocks... It's easy to blame anglers it's harder to go out and actually do something about the problem...

I know exactly the life cycle of the bass as I done a project on them in collage, I was studying environmental science and if you research it the tonnage of wild sea bass coming out of our coastal oceans is absolutely frightening..

Also can you reference where you got the information that sea bass are the same as salmon because to me that's absolute nonsense...

KAI.Fundraiser

Dude why is everything you write so defensive..

Im talking about their migration being like salmon, they leave and come back every year..

I never said anglers are to blame, society is to blame, the sensationalism of bass in restaurant and tv is to blame, the poachers, trawlers and anglers are to blame. The years of people not caring about the stocks is to blame.

Also im not lying when I say your the only person that I have heard of that does not think there is a decline over the last years in bass stocks and for you to sit here and say that anglers are being attacked is a very closed minded. You sound like a fishing guide, someone who makes money from the fish being caught.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

Dude why is everything you write so defensive..

Im talking about their migration being like salmon, they leave and come back every year..

I never said anglers are to blame, society is to blame, the sensationalism of bass in restaurant and tv is to blame, the poachers, trawlers and anglers are to blame. The years of people not caring about the stocks is to blame.

Also im not lying when I say your the only person that I have heard of that does not think there is a decline over the last years in bass stocks and for you to sit here and say that anglers are being attacked is a very closed minded. You sound like a fishing guide, someone who makes money from the fish being caught.

I have guided a few times but 99% of times when asked I don't because I not qualified and I don't insurance etc...

Sorry if I sound defensive but I just don't agree with what your saying...

I do not believe there's a decline in bass stocks at least not in my area..

I was just in a local fishing tackle today and I had this conversation with three anglers and we all agreed that we catching bass this year...

I admit that I live in the best place in Europe for sea bass, I am literally two mins from Banna strand and I could be in five of the best surf beaches in Ireland in twenty mins..

What I do know is this, bass come and go, for example inch beach in April two years ago, over 70 bass all c&r in four hours between 14 anglers, the next day 0 ... Not a bite....

Last week in two short sessions, maybe an hour long four bass and lost two....

This year on a couple of sessions had 6 and the best day 8 in a session...

I am not trying to fight with you but can you not see my point in why the first thing that happens when the debate comes up that stocks are declining anglers get the chop!

Why don't they try and stop tangle nets being used along the surf beaches or stop illegal netting, why is it that anglers are always the ones to suffer...

And please understand I don't mind putting back fish I always do but I don't agree in the mentality behind certain decisions... Is it ok to not agree?

And also its not proven that bass spawn in the area they were born, that has never been researched by scientists, the simple reality Is we know f*ck all about our sea bass because no investment has gone into researching them... That's 100 %, we don't even know do they travel to deep water or not...

KAI.Fundraiser

As for research, cork harbor have been doing it for 2 years now and they can tell you that they do return. They tagged and released fish last year and believe it or not, they left the harbor, but then returned this year!

Also, just because you area is producing bass does not mean there is healthy bass stocks. Travel outside your bubble and see the reality of it.

I agree with allot of what your saying but for a bass angler to say these new policys are an attack on the angler is just funny.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

As for research, cork harbor have been doing it for 2 years now and they can tell you that they do return. They tagged and released fish last year and believe it or not, they left the harbor, but then returned this year!

Also, just because you area is producing bass does not mean there is healthy bass stocks. Travel outside your bubble and see the reality of it.

I agree with allot of what your saying but for a bass angler to say these new policys are an attack on the angler is just funny.

I do travel outside my bubble... Lol..

I cannot judge on places I don't fish regularly.. I travel everywhere fishing...

It's great work going on in cork harbor, there is talk of the same thing been applied in Tralee bay because of the ray that return, the problem is the price of the tagging equipment and data boy...

The problem is that bass might have traveled all over the south coast, how can they prove that the bass was spawning there... It's great tho the work Jim H is involved fair play to every body volunteering there...

Anyway we will beg to differ, I don't agree with the vast majority but that's ok with me...

Tight lines...

Lisciasty

20 years ago any anglers can take any number of fish and there was not any issiu now the law is more restricted but no improvement. IFI should look after pollution, pouchers, large fishing corporations and many many other issues but NOT anglers even that one who is taking 2 sea basses in 24h. That is my opinion.

counterlock

Lisciasty wrote: »

20 years ago any anglers can take any number of fish and there was not any issiu now the law is more restricted but no improvement. IFI should look after pollution, pouchers, large fishing corporations and many many other issues but NOT anglers even that one who is taking 2 sea basses in 24h. That is my opinion.

People take the piss as it is, never mind letting them take home as much as they want.

danbrosnan

counterlock wrote: »

People take the piss as it is, never mind letting them take home as much as they want.

And are these proposed new laws gonna stop people taking the piss?

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

And are these proposed new laws gonna stop people taking the piss?

No one is saying they are going to stop the piss takers, but if the IFI actually enforce it, then its nothing but good.

danbrosnan

KAI.Fundraiser wrote: »

No one is saying they are going to stop the piss takers, but if the IFI actually enforce it, then its nothing but good.

This is my point, and please don't think I'm being negative... I am after having a Great day and I want to get on with you Lol..

How in the name of god are they gonna police the new regulations if they don't police the ones they have now...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

This is my point, and please don't think I'm being negative... I am after having a Great day and I want to get on with you Lol..

How in the name of god are they gonna police the new regulations if they don't police the ones they have now...

Thats my point all along... Im for the new changes but only if they are policed..

And I geet along with everyone lol. Im a lovable kinda guy!! lol

sheesh

I am undecided in the poll but vaguely positive towards the new rules at least someone is paying attention.

The real problem is that foreign fishing boats can catch bass and just go off with them legally while irish boats cannot. its a bit ridiculous.
the 1 fish per 24 hours is a bit like the salmon tag they are only (you can only get 1 at a time and then send off for your next tag). it punishes the law abiding angler. whereas if you left it at 2 at least the guy that is fishing once a month could legally get a good dinner or 2 for his effort.

I'm positive there is a mint of money to be made in tourism if we got good head of bass back.

honestly I probably won't affect me as I don't thik I ever have caught more than one bass in a session .

Like everyone is saying, it enforcement that is required.

I wonder if this 1 fish rule stops people going fishing at bass marks will it lead to less reports of illegal netting. As we all know the only way to protect the stock is if we report illegal activities ourselves.

mattcullen

sheesh wrote: »

The real problem is that foreign fishing boats can catch bass and just go off with them legally while irish boats cannot. its a bit ridiculous.

.

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Can you please try and find that research for me? I have searched the internet, books and collage documents to get good research on sea bass. The bass just isn't that well documented but I would love to see that bit of knowledge...

I know from having conversations with trawler men that it is common to haul shoals of bass both inshore and offshore. This has always intrigued me and goes in some way to say that

do go offshore. The majority of our shore species do go offshore because of natural instinct and feeding patterns etc...

mattcullen

Hi Dan,

Have a look at the post from John Quinlan here http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40381&start=80

Relates to marine Institute and also foreign trawlers. Don't know if the surveys etc are online but maybe he could point you in the right direction...

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

Hi Dan,

Have a look at the post from John Quinlan here http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40381&start=80

Relates to marine Institute and also foreign trawlers. Don't know if the surveys etc are online but maybe he could point you in the right direction...

Thanks matt you a star! Tight lines..

Zzippy

mattcullen wrote: »

My understanding is that all the reports of bass getting caught further offshore (outside the 12 mile limit) are from the commercial fishing industry? It suits them to push this as being the reality because it suits their agenda to be able to land bass here and it gets them public sympathy.

I can't put my finger on it now but I'm pretty sure I've seen scientific surveys referred to which show that there the Irish bass stock is almost exclusively inshore. In short there doesn't appear to be any evidence of this offshore bass fishery and if the commercials ever get their way (which we all have a responsibility to make sure never happens) it would be very easy for them to land bass they've netted inshore and pass it off as from outside the 12 mile limit.

The FIF are well organised and are very polished in their PR on this stuff.

We're lucky enough to have the very dedicated John Quinlan http://www.irishbass.org/ fighting the good fight for our bass. Check out his website and also his posts on similar threads to this on the SAI website. Very informative: http://www.sea-angling-ireland.org/bulletin%20board/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=25207&start=320&st=0&sk=t&sd=a

Excellent post, hit the nail on the head. The Marine Institute are very much pro-commercial fishing, the head scientist even wrote a paper justifying re-opening the fishery on very flimsy grounds. Anglers need to unite to fight the proposal to re-open the fishery, but instead we have lads whinging that they won't be allowed to kill two bass a day. Bass stocks are so fragile, slow-growing, long-lived fish, and so susceptible to overfishing, that I have zero patience for any of these so-called anglers. If you think it's your right to kill two of these fish a day, fish that are so important to the breeding stock, you're an absolute muppet. That is my honest opinion.

I heartily welcome the new policy, especially the increased size limit. IFI has f*ck all resources anymore to police everywhere, but it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise. it's up to anglers to start not just talking conservation, but acting it too - name and shame other anglers you see breaking the law, report offences when you see them, talk conservation at every opportunity, confront people you see taking undersize bass or more than the quota. Anglers whinging about stricter limits need to wise up - it's talk like that that commercial fishermen love to quote - and it justifies their complaint that they are unfairly treated.

A 10lbs bass can be 25 years old, it is far too valuable to be caught only once and killed for a supper.

danbrosnan

Zzippy wrote: »

Excellent post, hit the nail on the head. The Marine Institute are very much pro-commercial fishing, the head scientist even wrote a paper justifying re-opening the fishery on very flimsy grounds. Anglers need to unite to fight the proposal to re-open the fishery, but instead we have lads whinging that they won't be allowed to kill two bass a day. Bass stocks are so fragile, slow-growing, long-lived fish, and so susceptible to overfishing, that I have zero patience for any of these so-called anglers. If you think it's your right to kill two of these fish a day, fish that are so important to the breeding stock, you're an absolute muppet. That is my honest opinion.

I heartily welcome the new policy, especially the increased size limit. IFI has f*ck all resources anymore to police everywhere, but it's easy to sit behind a keyboard and criticise. it's up to anglers to start not just talking conservation, but acting it too - name and shame other anglers you see breaking the law, report offences when you see them, talk conservation at every opportunity, confront people you see taking undersize bass or more than the quota. Anglers whinging about stricter limits need to wise up - it's talk like that that commercial fishermen love to quote - and it justifies their complaint that they are unfairly treated.

A 10lbs bass can be 25 years old, it is far too valuable to be caught only once and killed for a supper.

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

KAI.Fundraiser

danbrosnan wrote: »

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

Dude you really need to take a step back. You are way to defensive to debate anything because all you do is take offence from everything!

The new policy's will work with the 1000s of bass anglers out there that are happy with them and will stick with them. The ones that dont need to be policed....

So in my eyes if it means that 1000s of anglers are gona take 1 fish instead of 2, its working.

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Want to put this poll out there...

The new bass policy has been made public this week and as usual an attack on anglers, only one bass per 24 hours, size limit increased to 50cm and bass protection zones...

Want to know if people agree with these vast changes in our regulations or not....

danbrosnan wrote: »

I truly believe the IFI are at fault for the lack of bass on the east coast, not the anglers, it is not possible for anglers to cause a collapse in a fish stocks...

danbrosnan wrote: »

Your whole opinion is pointless, the IFI cannot police the regulations they already have so how are they gonna police new ones...

Also I am gonna take your post personally because it was obviously pointed at me and if you cannot admit that it means u have no backbone...

So come on zippy tell us how you have contributed to the protection and safeguard of bass...

Take it personally if you want, your very first post was whinging about not being allowed to take more than one bass per day so you are definitely one of the people I'm talking about. No problem saying that, and I don't need your approval of my backbone :rolleyes:

Bass are in trouble, no matter how much you protest that your local beaches are full of them. Well for you! Anglers killing fish do have an impact on stocks - every bass killed is one less that can spawn next year. The poll clearly shows that the majority here are in favour of more restrictive angling regulations for bass, so the policy group probably got it right. Bass anglers were represented on the policy group. So whinging about only one fish a day puts you in the minority. It's a minority I have no respect for - while the rest are happy to do their bit to help conserve bass stocks, you and that minority are not.

Yes IFI can't enforce the regulations all the time, as I've explained already they don't have the resources. You may have heard of this recession thing, and how there hasn't been any recruitment since 2008. That doesn't mean we should leave overly generous regulations in place at a time when there is serious concern for bass stocks. That's like saying we should leave the drink driving limit at 100mg because we haven't enough gardai to enforce the existing law.



As for what I've done, well every bass I've ever caught has gone back alive, hopefully to spawn again. That's a lot more than you can say. Killing two large bass, and posting photos of it online, says it all really about your attitude to bass conservation.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Anything that reduces the number of Bass taken is to be applauded. Of course we can cry about enforcement but such is the case with all laws, rules and regulations in every walk of life in this country. Having fished for over 60 years I gave seen many changes in the rules and I have to say that they were all to the good and have been accepted by the vast majority of anglers. Most will abide by the regulations without somebody standing over their shoulder making them do so. The poachers will poach regardless of size or bag limits, as will the unscrupulous angler.
To even suggest that this is an "attack" on anglers is a step too far. It is bringing some opportunity to further protect stocks and give more anglers a taste of the joy in catching a Bass. A few decades ago I thought nothing of catching bass. They seemed plentiful. Then they became rare but are now showning signs of recovery and anything that aids this recovery is to be applauded.

Snowc

Dan maybe you should reduce the options in the poll to one

danbrosnan

Zippy I ain't hiding, you know who I am and what I stand for...

I stand for angling and hunting and before we all know it, we won't be able to keep a fish or a bird...

There is a bigger situation here lads, I don't know if ye can see it but I can...

Trawlers and poachers will gladly take fish while the angler before long won't be able to keep any...

There was a trawler last week stranded on formoyle strand after beaching itself because it had tangle nets set 100 metres from the beach..

The video is on youtube ye all can see it... The angler who took the video and made it public, told me the day before when I met him digging lugs he had seen nets all over the place...

That trawler has been fishing off the beach all summer...

Anglers came down from Dublin fishing... The whole week was a disaster, they sent me pictures of nets, I made them public, and there was a fishery officer on the phone pleading with me to take them down...

April this year nets tied across formoyle strand 3 o clock in the day, rang the IFI they came out and made the seizures...

I sent gps numbers of over twenty nets tied every day throughout the summer, to local officers, the majority of these nets are still tied today...

There has been numerous anglers this year that need to be applaud, they have made many poaching activities public through our page, there the people I like to deal with, not people on here hiding behind fake names...

I am sorry to people if they take offence, but in taught the idea of the IFI was to stop the poachers and leave to actual anglers fish and if they want keep some..

That's angling lads, this idea of complete c&r is completely alien to me, I am sorry that I like to eat fish but it's healthier then the **** from supermarkets, what do people want us to do buy farmed sea bass from Egypt?

As far catching two sea bass per day that actually never ever happens... Who's out every day of the week? I don't see it and you know what if I did I would confront angler in two secs no prob would ye? I doubt it...

I will stand for what I believe in and yes this policy is good in a sense but it is an attack on anglers because why isn't there a policy set up to sort out local poaching which is widespread? Why aren't fines for illegal poaching increased ten fold? Why isn't jail brought in for illegal activities during the bass spawning season?

No tell the anglers what to do and when they catch a poacher give him a slap on the wrist and he off again doing the same thing two nights later...

Tight lines... I going fishing...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Dan you are confusing two very different things. You opened the thread on the new Bass regulations and we expressed our opinions on it. The poaching and illegal fishing is another thing altogether and to say we should not bring improved regulations in to play because of illegal fishing is missing the point.
You also seem to think that you are the only angler who would ever, or has ever, stood up to poachers or reported them. I can assure you you are mistaken - but again that is not what we were commenting on.

The new regulations are to be applauded. The illegal fishing, and the enforcement of the law in that regard, is another issue and I think we are all agreed on how that particular discussion would progress on an angling forum.

Bio Mech

Jennifer Modern Raffle wrote: »

Dan you are confusing two very different things. You opened the thread on the new Bass regulations and we expressed our opinions on it. The poaching and illegal fishing is another thing altogether and to say we should not bring improved regulations in to play because of illegal fishing is missing the point.
You also seem to think that you are the only angler who would ever, or has ever, stood up to poachers or reported them. I can assure you you are mistaken - but again that is not what we were commenting on.

The new regulations are to be applauded. The illegal fishing, and the enforcement of the law in that regard, is another issue and I think we are all agreed on how that particular discussion would progress on an angling forum.

I would have to agree Dan there are two separate issues here. There are always people who break laws but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have any. I would agree that the penalties are two soft but that's an issue with our justice system in many ways.

Greater ecological responsibility should begin with the angler and reducing the keeping of a predator like bass is a good step. I would be against keeping bass myself for conservation reasons and I would have the same opinions for pike, salmon and Ferox. But I would have no issue with gathering reasonable amounts of sandeels or macks or roach for bait because there is no population impact. There is no ban on keeping macks, Pollock, plaice so I don't see the attack on anglers argument. Bass are proven to be vulnerable. I would like to see the same laws for tope, blues, spurs, hounds etc also.

KAI.Fundraiser

Bio Mech wrote: »

I would have to agree Dan there are two separate issues here. There are always people who break laws but it doesn't mean we shouldn't have any. I would agree that the penalties are two soft but that's an issue with our justice system in many ways.

Greater ecological responsibility should begin with the angler and reducing the keeping of a predator like bass is a good step. I would be against keeping bass myself for conservation reasons and I would have the same opinions for pike, salmon and Ferox. But I would have no issue with gathering reasonable amounts of sandeels or macks or roach for bait because there is no population impact. There is no ban on keeping macks, Pollock, plaice so I don't see the attack on anglers argument. Bass are proven to be vulnerable. I would like to see the same laws for tope, blues, spurs, hounds etc also.

Well said...

The problem is allot of anglers see bass as the best eating and fighting fish. Give me a pollack on a spinning rod any day and Il have the best days fishing with a nice supper. I would rather catch mullet for the fight than a bass.

danbrosnan

Lads i do agree with ye on many points and i am delighted we can all get into a safe, well mannered debate!!! LOL

Can ye not see where yer opinion on the matter does damage to the overall stock???

So lets say Bio Mechs opinion comes to fruition!!! Then the majority of fish is C&R, that then puts pressure on the fish stocks because of over fishing at sea...

Let me ask ye this would ye prefer to see people eating farmed bass from Egypt or Greece?? Or eating wild bass??

The biggest global problem at this very moment is not bass anglers here in Ireland but it is over fishing of bait fish in the north atlantic...

There is thousands of trawlers killing tonnes apon tonnes of sprats, krill, sand eels etc in the north atlantic which means the whole eco system is literally on a knife edge...

I have never bought a fish from a fish mongers and i never will...

Salmon are coming back to our river half starving all because the bass which are being farmed in Egypt need to be fed from the fish mill being produced from the tonnes of bait being caught out at sea...

There is a major problem here lads and trust me i take on board everything everyone says...

We are not the problem, anglers are generally good people, anglers that fish should be allowed to keep some of there catch and the powers that be should be protecting every inch of water here in Ireland..

The farming of fish is an absolutely massive business, billions upon billions its worth, the overfishing of bait fish to feed these farmed fish is the biggest problem the marine eco systems face...

Its the same with farming we import thousands of tonnes of fruit and vegetables into Ireland when we could be growing them here...

Everybody here is against me, thats fine with me, i can handle it, i want to eat wild Irish fish, not farmed stuff which by being imported is polluting the atmosphere and putting money into the fish farming businesses..

Every bass i catch i completely respect, and i respect people and anglers too, if its put upon me to put back fish under 50cm i will, there was a time i wouldn't be i have grown up, the people in power have a responsibility to actually enforce the laws that are currently in place...

Can anybody here tell me an exact number of anglers caught last year fishing with rod and line in Ireland with undersize bass??

I would love a number on that?? If there was an outrageous number of people caught and prosecuted then yes lets so something about that...

How can the IFI actually know who is catching what?? Are the basing there research on hearsay??

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view, bass are a beautiful fish and they will remain abundant once the right decisions are made, i don't believe this is right direction because its missing the point absolutely...

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Dan, you raised a lot of points there that have nothing to do with anything I personally said on the topic of this particular thread but all I will say is that I am following no crowd and my beliefs are based on over 65 years of fishing for all species.

Bio Mech

Lots of thoughts spewing out there so hmmm where to start. This will take a while

danbrosnan wrote: »

Can ye not see where yer opinion on the matter does damage to the overall stock???

Simply, it doesn't. You just cant seem to see separate issues as separate. In isolation keeping one bass is better for stocks than keeping two. Its as simple as that. Complicating factors and the world at large wont change that but you seem to have convinced yourself that your own opinion in correct and are using some pretty odd logic to justify it.

danbrosnan wrote: »

So lets say Bio Mechs opinion comes to fruition!!! Then the majority of fish is C&R, that then puts pressure on the fish stocks because of over fishing at sea...

Separate issues Dan. Recreational C&R has no influence on stocks beyond the local ecosystem. Over fishing of bait fish at sea is a separate fisheries and oceanic issue.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Let me ask ye this would ye prefer to see people eating farmed bass from Egypt or Greece?? Or eating wild bass??

Since you ask I don't eat bass at all as there is no sustainable bass fishery IMO. Local stocks are too vulnerable and farmed fish are environmentally sub optimal not even mentioning PCBs etc.

danbrosnan wrote: »

The biggest global problem at this very moment is not bass anglers here in Ireland but it is over fishing of bait fish in the north atlantic...

There is thousands of trawlers killing tonnes apon tonnes of sprats, krill, sand eels etc in the north atlantic which means the whole eco system is literally on a knife edge...

Separate issues Dan. There are wider ecological risks alright but killing fish locally only compounds their risk. Local species reservoirs are very important

danbrosnan wrote: »

Salmon are coming back to our river half starving all because the bass which are being farmed in Egypt need to be fed from the fish mill being produced from the tonnes of bait being caught out at sea...

There is a major problem here lads and trust me i take on board everything everyone says...

That's quite a jump in logic. I assume you have some data on metabolic health of Irish Salmon. Do you really think Egyptian bass farming is causing all this?

danbrosnan wrote: »

The farming of fish is an absolutely massive business, billions upon billions its worth, the overfishing of bait fish to feed these farmed fish is the biggest problem the marine eco systems face...

Its the same with farming we import thousands of tonnes of fruit and vegetables into Ireland when we could be growing them here...

Separate issues Dan. Global issues, the IFI cant control these.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Everybody here is against me, thats fine with me, i can handle it, i want to eat wild Irish fish, not farmed stuff which by being imported is polluting the atmosphere and putting money into the fish farming businesses..

Your car pollutes the atmosphere, the electricity you use is generated by methods that pollute the atmosphere, the factories your reels are made in pollute the atmosphere. You can eat wild fish but why does it have to be a vulnerable species. Eat fish from a sustainable fishery.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Can anybody here tell me an exact number of anglers caught last year fishing with rod and line in Ireland with undersize bass??

I would love a number on that?? If there was an outrageous number of people caught and prosecuted then yes lets so something about that...

How can the IFI actually know who is catching what?? Are the basing there research on hearsay??

Different issues. You seem to be against the new regs for a bunch of random reasons. Egyptian farming, air pollution, commercial fishing of bait fish, not enough IFI enforcement last year, level of prosecutions. I don't see any of them actually stacking up.

danbrosnan wrote: »

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view,

One might suggest your own point of view is biased as you have a pro hunting and pro eating bass agenda which you openly state. Your point of view seems to be based on the fact that you want to eat bass and should be allowed do so because the Egyptians and the commercial boats are doing worse out in the wider world. Charity starts at home as they say.

I have been angling for 30 years, I have a degree in biology and a doctorate in ecology and population genetics. I have been a scientist (of sorts) pretty much all my life. I think I can be confident in my ability to assess a situation and make up my own mind. I couldn't care less what the majority think, or per se, what IFI think. In this case I just happen to have come to the same conclusion as they have. I differ with them, and other posters on here, on many issues. But not on this one.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

If I could thank that post 100 times bio mech it would still not do it justice. Just for the record I too have a doctorate in ecology, so snap! I worked in the field of Nature and conservation all my life and am still active in my retirement. Well said, again.

Any way, that's me finished on this thread as it has drifted into too many secondary topics.

Zzippy

danbrosnan wrote: »

Lads seriously please don't follow the crowd, make up yer own minds and look beyond biased points of view,

Dan, just because a vast majority of people don't agree with you doesn't mean they're following the crowd. And your own point of view is quite biased

danbrosnan

We all must come from different worlds anyway maybe ye don't understand where I am coming from but look everything I have said I believe in...

I will continue the fight to protect stocks from what I feel is the problem...

I believe in slow food and protecting the environment... Ye might not understand that overfishing is the problem not the rod and line..

Tight lines..

a148pro

Bio Mech wrote: »

I have been angling for 30 years, I have a degree in biology and a doctorate in ecology and population genetics. I have been a scientist (of sorts) pretty much all my life. I think I can be confident in my ability to assess a situation and make up my own mind. I couldn't care less what the majority think, or per se, what IFI think. In this case I just happen to have come to the same conclusion as they have. I differ with them, and other posters on here, on many issues. But not on this one.

Hi, sorry to interject, just wondering do you attribute the decline in bass stocks to localised anglers catching too much or to other factors?

One of the previous posters linked to this account of bass fishing in the 50s (http://www.irishbass.org/sound_bite.php?item=10) when clearly there were a lot more of them around. Clearly they were also profligate in catching them.

Do you think that is principally responsible for the decline in the stock or is it commercial fishing? I'm just wondering because the same website quotes a quarter of the European catch being from anglers (which is a huge amount).

I'm not asking these questions to make a point btw, I'm just interested, I agree with you in any event that even if the trawlers are doing the real damage that isn't to say we shouldn't limit anglers doing damage.

Also do you think it is possible to identify given local stocks that might be fished sustainably?

And finally what fish do you believe can be fished sustainably from the shore? Pollock and mackerel I assume but what else?

I should also add - why are they being poached in nets if its illegal to sell them here, are they being sold on the continent?

danbrosnan

Is there a come back? Lol

mattcullen

a148pro wrote: »

Hi, sorry to interject, just wondering do you attribute the decline in bass stocks to localised anglers catching too much or to other factors?

One of the previous posters linked to this account of bass fishing in the 50s (http://www.irishbass.org/sound_bite.php?item=10) when clearly there were a lot more of them around. Clearly they were also profligate in catching them.

Do you think that is principally responsible for the decline in the stock or is it commercial fishing? I'm just wondering because the same website quotes a quarter of the European catch being from anglers (which is a huge amount).

I'm not asking these questions to make a point btw, I'm just interested, I agree with you in any event that even if the trawlers are doing the real damage that isn't to say we shouldn't limit anglers doing damage.

Also do you think it is possible to identify given local stocks that might be fished sustainably?

And finally what fish do you believe can be fished sustainably from the shore? Pollock and mackerel I assume but what else?

I should also add - why are they being poached in nets if its illegal to sell them here, are they being sold on the continent?

Don't think anyone really knows the reasons why the stocks are low. Everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's mainly poaching, whether recreational fishing has much impact, how much is to do with environmental factors. I'm not sure how ICES worked out that figure for the recreational angler take. I don’t know how it would be possible to quantify that in any reasonably accurate way. For my own part, I do kill some bass to eat but I don’t go crazy on it cause I do feel that they may well be quite vulnerable to us anglers catching and killing them on a large scale.

Don’t feel that way about mackerel for example because the numbers that anglers take are clearly a drop in the ocean in comparison to the commercial take.

Essentially, we don’t have all the facts and so we all have to make up our minds based on what we do know and within the scope of the law.

danbrosnan

mattcullen wrote: »

Don't think anyone really knows the reasons why the stocks are low. Everyone has their own ideas as to whether it's mainly poaching, whether recreational fishing has much impact, how much is to do with environmental factors. I'm not sure how ICES worked out that figure for the recreational angler take. I don’t know how it would be possible to quantify that in any reasonably accurate way. For my own part, I do kill some bass to eat but I don’t go crazy on it cause I do feel that they may well be quite vulnerable to us anglers catching and killing them on a large scale.

Don’t feel that way about mackerel for example because the numbers that anglers take are clearly a drop in the ocean in comparison to the commercial take.

Essentially, we don’t have all the facts and so we all have to make up our minds based on what we do know and within the scope of the law.

Your gonna go insane here with me Lol...

You just made a statement there that sums up Ireland's past, future and present with regards to our marine environments...

They didn't know either when we joined the EU, that our seas were literarily worth billions...

Now the people in charge of the protection of sea bass in Ireland are the IFI...

Can somebody on here tell me figures of anglers caught in the last four years with bass undersize.. So we looking for a figure on anglers, not poachers that were prosecuted while rod and line fishing with either over the bag limits or undersize...

These figures could then be used to prove that recreational anglers are a contributing factor to the decline of sea bass, and by the way I personally don't see any decline...

Bio Mech

I am not going to spend any more time replying to this thread. Despite some well put questions above.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and some people only see what they want to see. It's become an illogical and pointless debate unfortunately. Maybe ifi will have a few anglers arrested this year and then it will all suddenly make sense.

danbrosnan

Bio Mech wrote: »

I am not going to spend any more time replying to this thread. Despite some well put questions above.

You can't teach an old dog new tricks and some people only see what they want to see. It's become an illogical and pointless debate unfortunately. Maybe ifi will have a few anglers arrested this year and then it will all suddenly make sense.

Please bio,

Its obvious to me that you are most proberly an honest guy who I have come to respect through listening to your posts...

But can you please admit that the laws at the moment are not being implemented..

If you disagree with that then show me figures of five anglers prosecuted with undersize bass, I cant find one or think of one tbh..

danbrosnan

Heard on the beach today proposed close season may well be between January to July, not saying this is fact but was talked about today by anglers..