IRFU player Budgets

keithdelahunty

Can anyone out there please provide me with a realisable link to the 4 Irish provinces players Budgets for 2014/15 season?

I appreciate Munster Branch appears from outside to be so very badly run but over and over again Leinster appear to be able to sign who they want and Munster & Ulster have IRFU interference.

Sexton signing today did not come cheap after a few other high profile targets coming in, yet Connacht excluding Munster & Ulster senior management both say no budget available

Forgetting about Obvious belief in a Dublin bias I would be interested to know if IRFU release salary figures?

frankiea87

Leinster allowed sign who they want? Tell that to nathan hines.. Sexton is the irish OH and if the irfu hadnt been so incompetent he wouldnt have ever left.

Last high profile irish player to leave Munster?

4 Irish provinces players Budgets for 2014/15 season

Doubt it. They're all just incorporated into one figure in the IRFU accounts, and even at that it's unclear what that figure even covers.

but over and over again Leinster appear to be able to sign who they want and Munster & Ulster have IRFU interference.

This is a figment of your imagination I'm afraid.



Seriously, are you getting all outraged at Leinster re-signing an ex Leinster player and current undisputed Irish 10?

LeinsterDub

keithdelahunty wrote: »

Forgetting about Obvious belief in a Dublin bias I would be interested to know if IRFU release salary figures?

Dublin bias you say, hang on i'll get the popcorn. This should be fun

.ak

This thread probably isn't going anywhere good anytime soon. But, please answer the OP's question and ignore the insinuations.

.ak

Sexton hasn't signed anything yet, btw.

Zzippy

Mod note: Don't let this descend into inter-provincial sniping. Zero tolerance for that, bans will be issued

Edit: Beaten to it by .ak!

.ak

Amateur.
















:P

awec

Who have Munster or Ulster said there has been no budget to sign?

Sexton is being signed by the IRFU. He will be coming home on the stipulation that he plays for Leinster. I'm sure he wouldn't entertain the idea of re-signing for the IRFU if they were going to send him to Ulster or Munster. If there were any other high profile and very important Ireland players playing abroad the situation would be the same.

The central contract system essentially provides free players to the provinces. I think that Leinster and Munster have more of these contracts than Connacht or Ulster but I haven't counted recently.

Actually over the last two or three seasons Ulster have had the highest profile/paid NIQs by an absolute mile in Pienaar and Afoa.

Leinster and Munster have both largely relied on Irish players, Leinster started with 15 Irish players a couple of times in the HEC last season I think.

awec

Jovanni Helpful Pushcart wrote: »

Actually over the last two or three seasons Ulster have had the highest profile/paid NIQs by an absolute mile in Pienaar and Afoa.

Leinster and Munster have both largely relied on Irish players, Leinster started with 15 Irish players a couple of times in the HEC last season I think.

NIQs only cost the IRFU a set amount. The province has to pay the rest themselves.

Having Afoa and Pienaar costs the IRFU the same as having Nacewa and Thorn for example.

The more players you have on a central contract the better it seems. But that's something for provinces to aspire to rather than complain that the team down the road has more of them.

awec

awec wrote: »

NIQs only cost the IRFU a set amount. The province has to pay the rest themselves.

Having Afoa and Pienaar costs the IRFU the same as having Nacewa and Thorn for example.

The more players you have on a central contract the better it seems. But that's something for provinces to aspire to rather than complain that the team down the road has more of them.

You're proving my point! The OP said that 1) Munster and Ulster suffer IRFU interference and 2) Munster and Ulster often end up with no budget available for signings.

Ulster had no interference in signing either of those guys (or Muller or Williams or Van Der Merwe or Herbst) and obviously have the budget to pay them.

awec

And on the point of budget, if Munster's budget isn't as big as Ulster's or Leinster's then there's a problem there. Munster have a very big support and loads of commercial potential - if they're not using that to bring in the cash then that's a problem they need to fix.

former legend

keithdelahunty wrote: »

Can anyone out there please provide me with a realisable link to the 4 Irish provinces players Budgets for 2014/15 season?

As Paul Brady would have said, "no use in asking, the answer is nobody knows".

The last IRFU annual report says €27 million was spent on professional game "player and management costs", but each province would have additional expenditure on top of that.

Riskymove

keithdelahunty wrote: »

Forgetting about Obvious belief in a Dublin bias

there is no bias with regards to IRFU signing players, you only have to look at some of the players Ulster have to see that and the players Munster attracted before

the basic fact, while you might not be happy about it, is that Leinster simply has advantages over other provinces at present in attracting players

• Leinster's current run of success
• Their current top level players (top players want other top players around them)
• Dublin, like Paris or London, has an advantage over other cities in the country

That of course is even after Ireland has to compete against other countries, particularly the allure and money in France

awec

awec wrote: »

And on the point of budget, if Munster's budget isn't as big as Ulster's or Leinster's then there's a problem there. Munster have a very big support and loads of commercial potential - if they're not using that to bring in the cash then that's a problem they need to fix.

They've a pile of debt on their stadium and falling attendances.

errlloyd

I imagine Leinster's wage budget is probably the highest. There are a number of different indicators we could use to verify that Leinster players are particularly highly valued abroad - Lions representation, ERC nominations, 6 Nations player nominations (4 out of 6 last year were Leinster, another was Sexton).

I think this increases the market value for Leinster players and in matching that market value to keep Leinster players Leinster must have a larger salary cost. But they haven't got a larger salary cost because they are splashing out on foreign players, they have a high cost because the value of their Irish players is so high. Getting rid of those players to satisfy a bottom line would be grossly unfair to Leinster.

I think it is ok for the IRFU to do everything in their power to keep Leinster players at Leinster (and Munster players at Munster etc). Arguably rather than Sexton returning demonstrating some bias towards Leinster, it is actually more logical to look at Sexton leaving. He is basically the only frontline player that the IRFU have recently allowed to leave Ireland. In that regard the IRFU took the decision that they had a shortfall in their budget, one province was going to have to take a hit, and it was Leinster.

I think fans of Ulster, Munster and Leinster can all equally feel aggrieved that their is less cash available for NIQs than before. Gopperth and Douglas are not Contempomi and Thorn. But the day money is saved by selling an Irish player from one province, to allow the purchase of a foreign player in another province in the name of "fairness" will be a dark day for Irish rugby.

BazPM

From what I understand you can't really tell from budgets alone. The IRFU has been pumping a lot of money into Munsters stadium and put a fair few Munster players on central contracts to help them. Even then I don't think Munster have been hard done by?! Botha, Jdv, Howlett in recent years are massive signings. Ulster have had some outrageous signings! The IRFU completely dicked Leinster with Sexton anyway, they offered him 330k! O'Gara was on 350k and benching to him , Heaslip 550k! The IRFU had given a 250-275k central contract to a certain winger who had barely established himself earlier that year and then were offering Sexton 330k! Sexton didn't even care about the money I know the family he just felt insulted by how he was treated (evidently because he turned down 900k 4 year contract to come home)

thomond2006

Munster's income must have been enormous in the first two years after the redevelopment compared to now. Pro12 matches got at least 20,000 at Thomond (prices were also more expensive) and Heineken Cup matches never went on public sale.

blackdog1

I personally think that the budgets are nearly all the same , the only difference is the amount of centrally contracted players in each province. It could be argued that munster by losing mike ross to leinster is costing them 300k per anumn because his wage is being picked up by irfu, botha's isn't. That 300k could have signed them an international easy. Leinster are saving a fortune by having most of their first 15 centrally contracted.

10 years ago it wss munster in the same position. Id hazard a guess is saying ulster will have a fair few centrally contracted players in the future. It pays to produce indigenous talent. So munster would want to make sure their academy is producing the goods.

Zzippy

From a Connacht perspective, I'm loving the irony of other province's fans moaning about funding from the IRFU

twinytwo

Jovanni Helpful Pushcart wrote: »

They've a pile of debt on their stadium and falling attendances.

Let's not even start about the cost of the stadium. Caught just before the **** hit the fan. They could have built it now for a fraction of what it actually cost.

Am I correct in saying they have only recently started making repayments?

twinytwo

twinytwo wrote: »

Let's not even start about the cost of the stadium. Caught just before the **** hit the fan. They could have built it now for a fraction of what it actually cost.

Am I correct in saying they have only recently started making repayments?

They've missed their payment reschedule for a couple of years and recently the IRFU slashed the yearly repayment amount and increased the number of years it's to be paid over.

SuperCet

blackdog1 wrote: »

... It could be argued that munster by losing mike ross to leinster is costing them 300k per anumn because his wage is being picked up by irfu, botha's isn't. That 300k could have signed them an international easy...

You mean the Mike Ross who played only once for Munster in 05/06 before having to go to Quins for 3 years to get a game and then to Leinster, where he has made himself one of the most important figures in the Irish set up?

This all sounds like a lot of unnecessary moaning.

For a laugh, read Mike Ross's wiki page - "Backs (like Drico and Kearney) and fancy forwards ( like Cian Healy and Heaslip) get all the credit but at the end of the day, most of Leinster's wins come down to the brick that is Mike Ross..."

keithdelahunty

On people's comments that IRFU centrally contracted players not costing provinces anything I am not sure that is correct but if it is why then would IRFU let Leinster have 2 IRFU contracted players in #10 plus an overseas superstar?

On IRFU not interfering I have heard many rumours (only rumours) that players been told they had to sign for one providence over another most notability Tommy Bowe I heard wish to sign for either Leinster or Munster but told to resign for Ulster

Podge_irl

Tommy Bowe definitely wanted to sign for Ulster. You're right that it has happened in the past (Leinster wanted to sign Paddy Wallace for example but he was only allowed play for Ulster) but it seems to be run slightly more professionally now.

Madigan isn't centrally contacted and Gopperth will leave when sexton arrives.

keithdelahunty

keithdelahunty wrote: »

On people's comments that IRFU centrally contracted players not costing provinces anything I am not sure that is correct but if it is why then would IRFU let Leinster have 2 IRFU contracted players in #10 plus an overseas superstar?

On IRFU not interfering I have heard many rumours (only rumours) that players been told they had to sign for one providence over another most notability Tommy Bowe I heard wish to sign for either Leinster or Munster but told to resign for Ulster

If by "overseas superstar" you actually mean decent player who never got near international rugby and was signed from the 2nd tier of English rugby, then you're dead right.

salmocab

keithdelahunty wrote: »

On people's comments that IRFU centrally contracted players not costing provinces anything I am not sure that is correct but if it is why then would IRFU let Leinster have 2 IRFU contracted players in #10 plus an overseas superstar?

Don't think Madigan is centrally contracted and if Sexton comes back next season then I would be certain that Gopperth will be going as his 2 year contract will be over. So that would mean Leinster will have 1 centrally contracted number 10.

keithdelahunty

Can we go back to original post, anyone know player budgets across the four provinces?

former legend

keithdelahunty wrote: »

Can we go back to original post, anyone know player budgets across the four provinces?

No. Nobody does. It is all speculation.

Podge_irl

keithdelahunty wrote: »

Can we go back to original post, anyone know player budgets across the four provinces?

I think it's one of those things that doesn't really have a straightforward answer. Even if it did, no one really knows - you would need to know how much each centrally contracted player was paid.

frankiea87

No.

Ulster, Leinster and Munster have similar budgets but the exact number isnt known.

Then there is the centrally contracted players: Healy, Best, Ross, O'Connell, Ryan, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Bowe, Trimble and Kearney.

Sexton will join them next year? While a few of them are out of contract this season.

jm08

frankiea87 wrote: »

No.

Ulster, Leinster and Munster have similar budgets but the exact number isnt known.

Then there is the centrally contracted players: Healy, Best, Ross, O'Connell, Ryan, POM, SOB, Heaslip, Murray, Bowe, Trimble and Kearney.

Sexton will join them next year? While a few of them are out of contract this season.

Keith Earls is on a central contract as well and there are rumours that Jared Payne also is.

Shane Horgan made a comment a while back about IRFU contracts - he said that the IRFU took advantage of the Munster players because they knew they would never leave. That might explain why Jamie Heaslip earns more than Paul O'Connell, the Irish captain.

edit: it should be noted that Munster have bigger overheads (owning two stadia) and two bases and having just redeveloped Thomond Park are now putting in a new stand in Musgrave - something Leinster or Ulster don't have to do.

Teferi

jm08 wrote: »

That might explain why Jamie Heaslip earns more than Paul O'Connell, the Irish captain.

Heaslip is a better player and has less years on the clock. That's why he earns more than POC, the Irish captain.

Why did you feel the need to point out that POC is the Irish captain by the way? I think everyone knows who captains the team on a rugby forum.

errlloyd

I realise Heaslip is the highest paid per year, but I wonder who earns the most per minute played.

frankiea87

jm08 wrote: »

Keith Earls is on a central contract as well and there are rumours that Jared Payne also is.

Shane Horgan made a comment a while back about IRFU contracts - he said that the IRFU took advantage of the Munster players because they knew they would never leave. That might explain why Jamie Heaslip earns more than Paul O'Connell, the Irish captain.

edit: it should be noted that Munster have bigger overheads (owning two stadia) and two bases and having just redeveloped Thomond Park are now putting in a new stand in Musgrave - something Leinster or Ulster don't have to do.

I love how you try to imply that somehow heaslip is less loyal.. im sure POC has been very well compensated over the course of his career.

Munster choice to have two bases.. and two stadia and to overdevelop thomond and now add a stand at misgrave while ticket sales go down and their debt has to be restructured.

Last time i checked leinster added a stand at donnybrook and are about to make changes at the rds.

awec

This thread isn't descending into Munster Leinster mud slinging.

CatFromHue

How does anyone know what POC is on?

All I could find was a Daily Mail article that indicated he would have been on the same as Heaslip, if not more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2542962/Ireland-legend-Paul-OConnell-agrees-two-year-contract-Munster-worth-550-000.html

How true that is I've no idea.

IIRC Horgan was saying that in the past the IRFU low balled the Munster players, how true that is today I don't know. It has to be said though that like cycling if you allow yourself to be made cycle in the ditch, you will be made cycle in the ditch.

jm08

Teferi wrote: »

Heaslip is a better player and has less years on the clock. That's why he earns more than POC, the Irish captain.

Why did you feel the need to point out that POC is the Irish captain by the way? I think everyone knows who captains the team on a rugby forum.

Heaslip has been the best paid Irish player for his last two contracts. I'm not criticising him, but I think under normal circumstances most people would expect that the Irish captain would be the best paid player.

(It should also be noted that much of POC's injury problems were down to getting an infection from taking a painkilling injection in his groin so that he could play in a 6 nations game - that infection kept him out for a year.)

irishbucsfan

jm08 wrote: »

Heaslip has been the best paid Irish player for his last two contracts. I'm not criticising him, but I think under normal circumstances most people would expect that the Irish captain would be the best paid player.

(It should also be noted that much of POC's injury problems were down to getting an infection from taking a painkilling injection in his groin so that he could play in a 6 nations game - that infection kept him out for a year.)

I don't know why people would assume the captain would be the best paid player. It'd be quite a weird assumption to make.

Usually salary will depend on relative strength at the position. Which is why Tight heads were hugely overpaid relative to their team mates for so long.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

How does anyone know what POC is on?

All I could find was a Daily Mail article that indicated he would have been on the same as Heaslip, if not more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2542962/Ireland-legend-Paul-OConnell-agrees-two-year-contract-Munster-worth-550-000.html

How true that is I've no idea.

IIRC Horgan was saying that in the past the IRFU low balled the Munster players, how true that is today I don't know. It has to be said though that like cycling if you allow yourself to be made cycle in the ditch, you will be made cycle in the ditch.

Sexton said that the best paid player in Ireland (which he was looking to get paid the same) was at the time a client of Fintan Drury. The description fits Heaslip (who has since moved onto BOD's Agency (BOD better not be giving any man of the match awards to his clients :pac:).
.

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

I don't know why people would assume the captain would be the best paid player. It'd be quite a weird assumption to make.

Usually salary will depend on relative strength at the position. Which is why Tight heads were hugely overpaid relative to their team mates for so long.

Nope. In rugby, the captain is a very important person. If fit, he will more than likely start and its not like he has a huge amount of competition at lock. His name is the first name on the teamsheet. POC was never dropped on his 3 tours of the Lions, whereas Heaslip was dropped in Australia.

I bet the Lions captain earns more than the rest of the team.

frankiea87

BOD was the best paid until his final contract.

jm08

frankiea87 wrote: »

BOD was the best paid until his final contract.

Yes, he was (and he was Ireland captain). One could argue that ROG was more important to Ireland as there was no reliable backup between about 2006 and 2009.

BOD's last contract would have been over 2 years ago when he lost the captaincy to Heaslip.

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

How does anyone know what POC is on?

All I could find was a Daily Mail article that indicated he would have been on the same as Heaslip, if not more.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/article-2542962/Ireland-legend-Paul-OConnell-agrees-two-year-contract-Munster-worth-550-000.html

How true that is I've no idea.

IIRC Horgan was saying that in the past the IRFU low balled the Munster players, how true that is today I don't know. It has to be said though that like cycling if you allow yourself to be made cycle in the ditch, you will be made cycle in the ditch.

Heaslip is reportedly on 500K per annum (which is nearly double what POC is on according to the Daily Mail - between 625K and 675K for 2 seasons and dependent on the number of Test matches he plays after the world cup).

Paul O’Connell’s new contract brings him up to the summer of 2016 and is worth between €625,000 and €675,000 over the course of the next two seasons, depending on how many Tests the 34-year-old plays before, during and after the 2015 World Cup.

CatFromHue

I quoted the Daily Mail article as an idea of how little was known of what POC was on, I didn't mean for it to be an exact figure. I mean it's the Daily Mail so you can assume they're lieing for some reason in everything they say.

If POC is on half of what Heaslip is on, which I doubt very much, you have to ask what he's up to in negotaitions that he can't command/get a market rate for his skills off his employer.

It's very naive to think an employer will automatically give you a good wage, you have to make them do it.

Podge_irl

POC wasn't captain when he signed his latest contract so it's incredibly irrelevant. It would be irrelevant even if he was. I doubt sexton will ever be Ireland captain but he is by far the best and most important player.

blackdog1

errlloyd wrote: »

I realise Heaslip is the highest paid per year, but I wonder who earns the most per minute played.

Donnacha ryan. Great player always injured the last 2 year's. Him or earls I recon seeing as fitz is on leinsters books

thomond2006

Has to be Ferris before he retired

jm08

CatFromHue wrote: »

I quoted the Daily Mail article as an idea of how little was known of what POC was on, I didn't mean for it to be an exact figure. I mean it's the Daily Mail so you can assume they're lieing for some reason in everything they say.

If POC is on half of what Heaslip is on, which I doubt very much, you have to ask what he's up to in negotaitions that he can't command/get a market rate for his skills off his employer.

It's very naive to think an employer will automatically give you a good wage, you have to make them do it.

Shane Horgan said on TV that the Munster players got less because the IRFU knew they would never leave (and they were correct).

Podge_irl

jm08 wrote: »

Shane Horgan said on TV that the Munster players got less because the IRFU knew they would never leave (and they were correct).

Then that's entirely the Munster player's fault. If you won't leave somewhere your market value goes down. The IRFU aren't a charity.