Opinions on the 5 x 5

crazyderk

Hey Folks,

A friend of mine shared this via Facebook, I thought it looked interesting, I was thinking of trying it out next week, The guy sounds like he knows what he's talking about but wanted to get other opinions on it.

http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

The videos are him going through the exercises and he comments on technique and how much rest time to take etc.

I'm a little worried on the Barbell row as I've never done it and when doing deadlifts im not 100% on my technique either.

Do you think its good/bad/worth trying?

Alf Veedersane

It's a pretty decent programme for a beginner but I would be inclined to get instruction from a trainer on the technique of the exercises first.

You don't wanna snap yo sh*t up and it's better to be shown before you go and ingrain a load of bad habits.

Caliden

If you're not 100% sure on your form, best thing to do is record yourself.

Helped immensely with both my deadlift and squat.


With regards the program itself, you won't end up looking like a bodybuilder as there are no isolation movements.
Looks a lot like starting strength which I found to be a waste of time.


You could of course add in your own isolation movements and add in core work (which this is lacking).

It recommends using a belt, which for a beginner isn't great advice either.


Personally I went with Jonnie Candito's 6 week cycle which comes in a handy excel doc that you can update on your phone (which I also use for music). As well as the bench, squat, deadlift and press it also adds in other movements which compliment the main 4.

crazyderk

Caliden wrote: »

If you're not 100% sure on your form, best thing to do is record yourself.

Helped immensely with both my deadlift and squat.


With regards the program itself, you won't end up looking like a bodybuilder as there are no isolation movements.
Looks a lot like starting strength which I found to be a waste of time.


You could of course add in your own isolation movements and add in core work (which this is lacking).

It recommends using a belt, which for a beginner isn't great advice either.


Personally I went with Jonnie Candito's 6 week cycle which comes in a handy excel doc that you can update on your phone (which I also use for music). As well as the bench, squat, deadlift and press it also adds in other movements which compliment the main 4.[/url]

Funny he specifically mentioned a couple of times not do isolation work because

During Summer 2003 I went on holiday to Turkey with two friends. Some guys who didn’t look like they lifted weights challenged us to armwrestling. I lost against all of them (again!). This made me realize I was strong in the gym, but not outside. It was all “fake” gym strength. Puffy, bogus muscles. Lots of show, but zero “go”. So back in Belgium I googled “how to get stronger”. And that’s when I discovered that to gain strength, you have to…
Read more: http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

and

I was skeptical. 5×5 looked too simple – three exercises, three times a week, 45 minutes per workout. There was no isolation, no high reps, no machines, no failure training, no “pump”, nothing. And yet this guy claimed I’d get stronger by training LESS and doing LESS? It seemed too good to be true… But I gave it a try and it turned out to be true
Read more: http://stronglifts.com/5x5/

Maybe its the French translating but "fake gym strength" not sure what that's all about?

I wouldn't just be doing this I would also be doing some other stuff in the gym like core work and some cardio as well as keeping up one of the classes I do

Rough Sleeper

crazyderk wrote: »

Maybe its the French translating but "fake gym strength" not sure what that's all about?

He's talking bollox; the "fake gym strength" you get from bodybuilding is the same "fake gym strength" you get from strength training. Improving your strength is good for sporting prowess but it doesn't matter **** if you don't know how to apply that strength to a given activity. The reason those bodybuilders lost to the skinnier guys in armwrestling isn't because they had "fake" muscles, it's because the skinnier guys knew how to manipulate leverage to their advantage. Or, just as likely, because the author fabricated the story to back up his beliefs.

Mellor

It's a good novice program. It's a strength program.
If strength is your goal. You don't need isolation exercises. If you want to do them, there's 5x5 variations that have allowed for isolation/accessory work.

The guy promoting it is essentially peddling somebody else work.
He talk a lot if bollix at times.
He exaggerates his achievements in order to promote the program, or rather his business.
None if that has an effect on the effectiveness of the program (as I said, it's not really his), I just felt it is worth pointing out.

I'd recomend you use the program and learn it from rather than blindly follow it.
Good luck

Alf Veedersane

Rough Sleeper wrote: »

He's talking bollox; the "fake gym strength" you get from bodybuilding is the same "fake gym strength" you get from strength training. Improving your strength is good for sporting prowess but it doesn't matter **** if you don't know how to apply that strength to a given activity. The reason those bodybuilders lost to the skinnier guys in armwrestling isn't because they had "fake" muscles, it's because the skinnier guys knew how to manipulate leverage to their advantage. Or, just as likely, because the author fabricated the story to back up his beliefs.

Also, if he was French, it's likely he surrendered quite easily.

Mellor

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Also, if he was French, it's likely he surrendered quite easily.

He's Belgian

Hanley

Anyone talking about fake gym strength and taking his word as gospel needs to look into his actual "real" gym strength and body comp before making their decision.

Like he's decently strong, but it shouldn't have taken him 14 years to get there.

5x5 is grand, but it's massively sub optimal.

Candito's program actually looks awesome. People need to start doing that instead of 5x5.

Or just go do mine; revolutionfitness.ie/free6weektransformation

Alf Veedersane

Mellor wrote: »

He's Belgian

In that case, it's just waffle.



I took it as something the friend who shared it had said and not something Medhi had said.

FTA69

Hanley wrote: »

Anyone talking about fake gym strength and taking his word as gospel needs to look into his actual "real" gym strength and body comp before making their decision.

Like he's decently strong, but it shouldn't have taken him 14 years to get there.

5x5 is grand, but it's massively sub optimal.

Candito's program actually looks awesome. People need to start doing that instead of 5x5.

Or just go do mine; revolutionfitness.ie/free6weektransformation

Do you have the same opinion of Rippetoe's Starting Strength as well if you don't mind me asking? Why is it suboptimal?

Hanley

FTA69 wrote: »

Do you have the same opinion of Rippetoe's Starting Strength as well if you don't mind me asking? Why is it suboptimal?

Yes. Not enough volume or assistance work.

Frank Bullitt

Oddly enough I started into 5x5 2 weeks ago and find it a bit lacking.

This Canditos program looks interesting enough.

MD1990

Hanley wrote: »

Anyone talking about fake gym strength and taking his word as gospel needs to look into his actual "real" gym strength and body comp before making their decision.

Like he's decently strong, but it shouldn't have taken him 14 years to get there.

5x5 is grand, but it's massively sub optimal.

Candito's program actually looks awesome. People need to start doing that instead of 5x5.

Or just go do mine; revolutionfitness.ie/free6weektransformation

Started Candito's program in July. Its a great program. Perfect combination of volume & intensity. Probably going to stay doing for the forseeable future.

Frank Bullitt

Think ill do it as well, after reading over it at lunch it looks more complete and well thought out over 5x5.

5x5 is still good for people to try, but it feels more like a beginner - esque program.

I can vouch for Candito's programme. Been doing it for a few weeks now and it's very nice. It looks deceptively easy on paper but the volume and frequency are both quite high. I've a log here with some workouts/thoughts on the programme for anyone interested.

deadlybuzzman

MD1990 wrote: »

Started Candito's program in July. Its a great program. Perfect combination of volume & intensity. Probably going to stay doing for the forseeable future.

How do you find it for gaining strength or does it strength lie elsewhere.?

Mellor

What's Candito's program in a nutshell?
I had done off before that talking about 6 weeks with varing purposes. Does that sound right?
Hypertrophy, strength, Power, volume, max effort etc (names might be off)

MD1990

Mellor wrote: »

What's Candito's program in a nutshell?
I had done off before that talking about 6 weeks with varing purposes. Does that sound right?
Hypertrophy, strength, Power, volume, max effort etc (names might be off)

Here is an example of my next cycle of Candito's Squat sets its 2 days a week

WK1 130kg 4x6 112.5 4x8
WK2 130x10 132.5 5x3 1min rest between sets. 132.5x10 127.5 10x3.
WK3 140 3x4-6. 140x4-6
WK4 142x3 145x3 147x3 . 147x3 152x1-2
WK 157x1-4.

crazyderk

Votes seem very much for canditos program according to this thread.

I've filled out the excel sheet, I've actually been doing all these exercises bar the dead lift, this is awesome! I think my main difficulty was making progression in upping the weights and this 6 week program does it for me and tells me what to do. definitely going give this a try.

Question though. Time wise I'm kind of limited due to family and work commitments. I normally hit the gym Mon-Fri and take the weekends off
This schedule skips Wednesday and goes Saturday, would it be a big deal to do Mon-Fri instead?

Also it doesn't leave time for cardio, I do like to go for a run once or twice a week. I suppose I could run when the little lad goes for a nap on the weekend or sometimes I meet a mate of mine one evening for a run on top of doing this although am I asking to burn myself out doing that?

LuckyLloyd

Hanley wrote: »

Yes. Not enough volume or assistance work.

Strictly speaking, it isn't the most efficient way to utilise the early training period of an unadapted beginner. However, I think critics of it or SS like yourself underestimate a few things:

- these programs are easy to follow;
- they don't require much time in the gym (this can be a good thing in terms of getting a beginner to stick to a program for the first time);
- they may not be the most optimal or efficient uses of time, but they still pack on strength;
- the easy progress achieved and simplicity of measuring same is addictive;

Basically, anyone who takes 5 x 5 or SS on and sees them through to conclusion (i.e. every lift has been reset a couple of times and are failing in tandem) will have achieved a good base to move on from. 'Strength is never a weakness' as it were.

The dietary advice for SS is obviously going to be off unless you are looking to play as a lineman in American football and have a two a day training camp in summer heat ahead of you the other side of completing the program.

crazyderk

Well I kicked off the first day of the Condito challenge today.

I found the 4 sets of 6 reps not very challenging and quickly upped the weights to feel something in my legs when it came to squats. Next time I do squats I'll start at the heavier weight after the warm up and see how it goes, it ups to 8 reps instead of 6 next time

The optional exercises were completely new to me and I felt them immediately
My shoulders are already a little stiff

MD1990

crazyderk wrote: »

Well I kicked off the first day of the first week today.

I found the 4 sets of 6 reps not very challenging and quickly upped the weights to feel something in my legs when it came to squats. Next time I do squats I'll start at the heavier weight after the warm up and see how it goes, it ups to 8 reps instead of 6 next time

The optional exercises were completely new to me and I felt them immediately
My shoulders are already a little stiff

How much weight were u lifting?

crazyderk

MD1990 wrote: »

How much weight were u lifting?

For squats I added 15KG so including the 20KG Olympic bar that would be 35KG and even with that I probably should of done more but someone was standing over me waiting to use bar.
For Deadlift I added 30KG so 50KG in total.

With the deadlift should I be feeling any pressure on my lower back? I was expecting to feel it all in my legs like a squat, I thought my form was ok but I might be wrong

MD1990

crazyderk wrote: »

For squats I added 15KG so including the 20KG Olympic bar that would be 35KG and even with that I probably should of done more but someone was standing over me waiting to use bar.
For Deadlift I added 30KG so 50KG in total.

With the deadlift should I be feeling any pressure on my lower back? I was expecting to feel it all in my legs like a squat, I thought my form was ok but I might be wrong

I would do a beginner program as u will make quicker progress than a more advanced one. Someting like 3x5 & add 2.5kg each workout.

Doug Cartel

crazyderk wrote: »

I found the 4 sets of 6 reps not very challenging and quickly upped the weights to feel something in my legs when it came to squats. Next time I do squats I'll start at the heavier weight after the warm up and see how it goes, it ups to 8 reps instead of 6 next time

This isn't really how you go about it. With this program you put your one rep max into a spread sheet and it calculates how much you should do each day.

If you just guess at the starting weight, by going with something that feels "challenging" now, you will be banjaxed later on in the program.


EDIT: I'm thinking of a different program.

crazyderk

Doug Cartel wrote: »

This isn't really how you go about it. With this program you put your one rep max into a spread sheet and it calculates how much you should do each day.

If you just guess at the starting weight, by going with something that feels "challenging" now, you will be banjaxed later on in the program.

MD1990 wrote: »

I would do a beginner program as u will make quicker progress than a more advanced one. Someting like 3x5 & add 2.5kg each workout.

So do you think I should stick with the original 5x5 program as I first asked or continue with this program?

MD1990

crazyderk wrote: »

So do you think I should stick with the original 5x5 program as I first asked or continue with this program?

yeah i think u should continue with it. What were u lifting on that program?

Doug Cartel

Are you doing the 6 week program or the linear one? If you're doing the linear one, then my last comment doesn't apply.

crazyderk

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Are you doing the 6 week program or the linear one? If you're doing the linear one, then my last comment doesn't apply.

Doing the 6 week program.

I wasn't doing a program before, just did my own thing which was a combination of weights, bootcamp class and running. I'm trying to focus more on weights now though

squrm

crazyderk wrote: »

Doing the 6 week program.

I wasn't doing a program before, just did my own thing which was a combination of weights, bootcamp class and running. I'm trying to focus more on weights now though

I did 2 cycles of the 6 week program and gained around 15% across the bench/squat/deadlift. I' going to get back on it next time around

papu

squrm wrote: »

I did 2 cycles of the 6 week program and gained around 15% across the bench/squat/deadlift. I' going to get back on it next time around

I did the 6 week cycle , Its a well laid out program , the variation and periodisation is pretty cool , I'd deffo recommend it and I'll be back doing it once My collarbone is healed

Mellor

Doug Cartel wrote: »

This isn't really how you go about it. With this program you put your one rep max into a spread sheet and it calculates how much you should do each day.

If you just guess at the starting weight, by going with something that feels "challenging" now, you will be banjaxed later on in the program.


EDIT: I'm thinking of a different program.

I think you're thinking if the right program.

@crazyderk, I think you fallen into the hybrid between the two programs

5x5 - start with the bar and add weight every session. So at the start of week 7, you'll be squatting 110kg or so.

Candito - you input you current max and it's works out your loads from that. If you input 20kg only, that's why it felt too light.

Frank Bullitt

Started the Candito program, first 2 days were delish!