AWOL British Army

ryan095

Hi, I'm an Irish lad who joined the British Army when I was 18 (19 now), I recently passed basic training but have decided I want to leave to go to UCD and study business but legally can't leave until I'm 23. I've talked to my superiors but they told me there's no way out until my contracts up. My question is, once I'm finished college will I have trouble emigrating to Canada? I know Canada is in the Commonwealth but will they see being AWOL as a reason to not grant me entry?

Marcusm

ryan095 wrote: »

Hi, I'm an Irish lad who joined the British Army when I was 18 (19 now), I recently passed basic training but have decided I want to leave to go to UCD and study business but legally can't leave until I'm 23. I've talked to my superiors but they told me there's no way out until my contracts up. My question is, once I'm finished college will I have trouble emigrating to Canada? I know Canada is in the Commonwealth but will they see being AWOL as a reason to not grant me entry?

Isn't there a period like 6 months within which you are entitled to ask to be discharged? DAOR?

Paulw

ryan095 wrote: »

My question is, once I'm finished college will I have trouble emigrating to Canada? I know Canada is in the Commonwealth but will they see being AWOL as a reason to not grant me entry?

From a quick google search, the answer seems to be yes - you will be refused entry, due to having a conviction, assuming that you are convicted of being AWOL.

There seems to be a few articles online of people going AWOL from the British army and then wanting to move to Canada.

ryan095

Marcusm wrote: »

Isn't there a period like 6 months within which you are entitled to ask to be discharged? DAOR?

Its 3 months

ryan095

Paulw wrote: »

From a quick google search, the answer seems to be yes - you will be refused entry, due to having a conviction, assuming that you are convicted of being AWOL.

There seems to be a few articles online of people going AWOL from the British army and then wanting to move to Canada.

Can you link me to one? I've been looking all day and can't find any. I'll be applying for the visa from Ireland so how exactly would they find out I'm AWOL if I never tell them I served?

johnnyskeleton

If you tell them that you no longer believe in her majestys imperial ambitions maybe they will give you a disharge?

Dozen Wicked Words

All the info is here:

http://www.beforeyousignup.info/joining/army/52-leavingover18

Hunterbiker

Can you not still buy your way out? Surely its best to leave with things tidy rather than for something to crop up years down the line.

Manach

As other posters mentioned, the UK forces take AWOL seriously as per a fairly recent case where an Irishman was picked up transiting through the UK after skipping from the army years ago. Thus important to leave on amicable terms.

krissovo

You would be better off posting on ARSE, AWOL on record can be a strange beast that can crop up in the strangest of situations. A lad I worked with was offered a great promotion, 6 figure salary, paid apartment, flash car and the background check came back he was AWOL so that ended his career. Roles that require security checks could also be an issue, I have it on good authority that there are plans to link the UK security clearance system to a multinational security check, that could cause problems down the line.

In my military days I spent 6 months as a regimental guard commander, I recall at least 6 soldiers being returned to the unit mostly by giving themselves up. You would probably get to Canada but you would always have one eye over your shoulder, one lad was in his 70's he went AWOL in the 50's and still felt guilty after 50 years.......We put him in the jail for 4 hours and sent him on his way with an official sentence report, he was happy man!

Lord Arsraptor

You could fake serious depression for a Medical Discharge?
Or state that you are a Conscientious Objector to warfare, in which case you may be honorably discharged?

ABajaninCork

Is there no way you can serve the term and leave college until later? The fact you've served in the Army might stand you in better stead then- shows you can knuckle down and see something through. I used to work for the Army back home and know they do a good job in resettling soldiers once they've served their term.

And the Army will sponsor you through college - Did you know that?

Or you could just raise the funds and buy yourself out. Those are the options I can see.

ryan095

krissovo wrote: »

You would be better off posting on ARSE, AWOL on record can be a strange beast that can crop up in the strangest of situations. A lad I worked with was offered a great promotion, 6 figure salary, paid apartment, flash car and the background check came back he was AWOL so that ended his career. Roles that require security checks could also be an issue, I have it on good authority that there are plans to link the UK security clearance system to a multinational security check, that could cause problems down the line.

In my military days I spent 6 months as a regimental guard commander, I recall at least 6 soldiers being returned to the unit mostly by giving themselves up. You would probably get to Canada but you would always have one eye over your shoulder, one lad was in his 70's he went AWOL in the 50's and still felt guilty after 50 years.......We put him in the jail for 4 hours and sent him on his way with an official sentence report, he was happy man!

Were you in the British Army? I made a stupid decision and joined straight out of school as my family was in a dire financial situation at the time and wasn't able to pay for me to go to college. My Canadian girlfriend who lives in Ireland came to visit when I was on weekend leave during basic training and now I've just found out she's pregnant, and if I want to have any kind of relationship with my child staying the other 3 years isn't an option. I never intend on returning to Britain so I'm not worried about being arrested down the line, although 6 months in Colchester sounds better serving the other three years.

ryan095

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Is there no way you can serve the term and leave college until later? The fact you've served in the Army might stand you in better stead then- shows you can knuckle down and see something through. I used to work for the Army back home and know they do a good job in resettling soldiers once they've served their term.

And the Army will sponsor you through college - Did you know that?

Or you could just raise the funds and buy yourself out. Those are the options I can see.

My girlfriends pregnant so finishing my terms not an option. As far as I know buying myself out isn't an option either

ABajaninCork

Now you're being silly, and not thinking straight. You need to take a deep breath and calm down. Jumping straight in has already landed you in this situation and you now need to think clearly.

The Army will provide quarters for your family. That isn't in question. And yes - if you pop your head above the parapet for any reason, you'll be returned and sent to the glasshouse. Not ideal for your new family.

Why can't you either:

Serve out your term. Can you transfer to another regiment - Is that an option?

Or

Buy yourself out? Have you talked to someone about buying yourself out? What research have you done?

johnnyskeleton

ryan095 wrote: »

Were you in the British Army? I made a stupid decision and joined straight out of school as my family was in a dire financial situation at the time and wasn't able to pay for me to go to college. My Canadian girlfriend who lives in Ireland came to visit when I was on weekend leave during basic training and now I've just found out she's pregnant, and if I want to have any kind of relationship with my child staying the other 3 years isn't an option. I never intend on returning to Britain so I'm not worried about being arrested down the line, although 6 months in Colchester sounds better serving the other three years.

Why not tell them that? They might give you an exceptional discharge or might even give you family quarters?

ryan095

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Now you're being silly, and not thinking straight. You need to take a deep breath and calm down. Jumping straight in has already landed you in this situation and you now need to think clearly.

The Army will provide quarters for your family. That isn't in question. And yes - if you pop your head above the parapet for any reason, you'll be returned and sent to the glasshouse. Not ideal for your new family.

Why can't you either:

Serve out your term. Can you transfer to another regiment - Is that an option?

Or

Buy yourself out? Have you talked to someone about buying yourself out? What research have you done?

How exactly am I being silly? I'm happy in my regiment and my superior told me buying my way out isn't an option. I know the army will provide quarters but my girlfriends in university and won't move to England.

Rubberchikken

Slow down and talk to someone and explain everything that's going on vegore you make a hasty decision that could come back to bite you.

ABajaninCork

ryan095 wrote: »

How exactly am I being silly? I'm happy in my regiment and my superior told me buying my way out isn't an option. I know the army will provide quarters but my girlfriends in university and won't move to England.

You're being silly by flapping about and talking about going AWOL which you've already been told is not a good idea if you want to go to Canada. Going AWOL counts as a conviction AFAIK.

You'll be a father soon. Start by taking a deep breath, thinking clearly, and researching any options as much as possible before you make any more rash decisions.

Where is your GF in uni?

Have you tried talking to your padre? Perhaps he might be able to offer advice...

Marcusm

ryan095 wrote: »

I never intend on returning to Britain so I'm not worried about being arrested down the line, although 6 months in Colchester sounds better serving the other three years.

It will depend on the UK law but, for some European countries, unauthorised absence can be followed up via a European arrest warrant meaning you wouldn't be safe in Ireland if they chose to pursue it.

ryan095

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Slow down and talk to someone and explain everything that's going on vegore you make a hasty decision that could come back to bite you.

I found out yesterday and talked to my C.O first thing this morning. He told me in no uncertain terms that there's nothing I can do and the most he can do for me is get me discharged after I've served 3 years and 6 months which isn't any help or get me family quarters which also isn't any help because my girlfriend won't move to England.

Dozen Wicked Words

How recently did you finish basic training.

ABajaninCork

ryan095 wrote: »

I found out yesterday and talked to my C.O first thing this morning. He told me in no uncertain terms that there's nothing I can do and the most he can do for me is get me discharged after I've served 3 years and 6 months which isn't any help or get me family quarters which also isn't any help because my girlfriend won't move to England.

Your CO probably isn't the best person to offer pastoral advice. Have you talked to your Welfare officer?

ryan095

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Your CO probably isn't the best person to offer pastoral advice. Have you talked to your Welfare officer?

So far I've only talked to my C.O and a friend who's an officer. My C.O's a decent guy and understood the situation but couldn't find me a solution. In response to your earlier question my girlfriends in uni in Dublin, and in response to A Dozen Wicked Words, sorry but I don't feel comfortable saying that online as it'll reveal which regiment I'm in.

ABajaninCork

Doesn't the British Army have some kind of reciprocal arrangement with the Irish Army? Or have I got that wrong??

ryan095

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Doesn't the British Army have some kind of reciprocal arrangement with the Irish Army? Or have I got that wrong??

No unfortunately

johnnyskeleton

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Doesn't the British Army have some kind of reciprocal arrangement with the Irish Army? Or have I got that wrong??

Its like with soccer if your grannie is irish you play for ireland and once youve declared thats it. Besides, this guy has no reason to come to ireland - its canada he wants to go to. Maybe the canadian army will take him?

ABajaninCork

You only found out your GF was pregnant yesterday - right? You already know it's a boy??

ryan095

ABajaninCork wrote: »

You only found out your GF was pregnant yesterday - right? You already know it's a boy??

Meant to say kid but you know what I mean..

piperh

As others have said there is the options to buy out your term, training service personal isn't cheap so if you are not going to serve at least buy yourself out.

One question though how are you going to be able to afford uni and pay for your baby? Seeing if the army will sponsor you seems the most responsible way forward in your life journey.

ryan095

piperh wrote: »

As others have said there is the options to buy out your term, training service personal isn't cheap so if you are going to serve at least buy yourself out.

One question though how are you going to be able to afford uni and pay for your baby? Seeing if the army will sponsor you seems the most responsible way forward in your life journey.

As I said I enlisted in the first place as my family wasn't well off financially but in the past couple of months this has changed, I also have savings from training. I can't start Uni until next year which gives me time to get a job in Ireland and work my ass off + my girlfriends family are VERY well off. The army would only sponsor me for a UK college as far as I know and staying in the UK's not an option

Furasta

Ask about getting transferred to Northern Ireland and then start Uni there, it may not be the same as being in Dublin with your GF but its alot closer. She might even be able to transfer her degree to NI aswell.

ryan095

Furasta wrote: »

Ask about getting transferred to Northern Ireland and then start Uni there, it may not be the same as being in Dublin with your GF but its alot closer. She might even be able to transfer her degree to NI aswell.

Its worth looking into, thanks mate. Finally a helpful solution!

Furasta

ryan095 wrote: »

Its worth looking into, thanks mate. Finally a helpful solution!

Ya, np. Just you are probably in a better situation than you think in regards to having an income that you can provide for a new family. Also the downsides to going AWOL are just to high, you would most likely refused entry to the United States aswell as other countries.

piperh

ryan095 wrote: »

As I said I enlisted in the first place as my family wasn't well off financially but in the past couple of months this has changed, I also have savings from training. I can't start Uni until next year which gives me time to get a job in Ireland and work my ass off + my girlfriends family are VERY well off. The army would only sponsor me for a UK college as far as I know and staying in the UK's not an option

Personally I think you are deluding yourself if you think at 19 you are going to be able to move to Ireland get a job and save enough to support yourself and your baby but as that's not what you asked I'll stick to answering your question.

Not only is the awol likely to show up when you apply for a Canadian visa but it will also show if you need a crb check in either uk or Ireland. I know for my crb checks my uk addresses and uk family details are required for checking.

How about transferring to a ni unit and getting sponsored at uni there? Going awol is always risky.

Lemming

At risk of playing devils advocate; have you considered what your g/f wants ryan? Has she said that she is determined to go through with the pregnancy? Does she want to transfer home right away to be with family support? In which case where does that leave "you" (as in plural)? Where does this leave "you" (plural) anyway? Has the pregancy revelation given her a reality-perspective-shift, etc.?

You need to slow down because as others have said, you're flapping big time and considering making a drastic decision with serious, serious consequences. Being charged for going AWOL is effectively a criminal record, and far from doing any notions of right to you, your g/f and any kids that come along, you're shooting yourself and them in the foot in terms of life options.

On top of that, are you guaruanteed a uni place if you go back to Ireland? Are you guaruanteed a job that'll give you enough savings?

LionelNashe

You can't get into UCD this year can you? Or did you do a CAO application this year just in case?

ryan095

Lemming wrote: »

At risk of playing devils advocate; have you considered what your g/f wants ryan? Has she said that she is determined to go through with the pregnancy? Does she want to transfer home right away to be with family support? In which case where does that leave "you" (as in plural)? Where does this leave "you" (plural) anyway? Has the pregancy revelation given her a reality-perspective-shift, etc.?

You need to slow down because as others have said, you're flapping big time and considering making a drastic decision with serious, serious consequences. Being charged for going AWOL is effectively a criminal record, and far from doing any notions of right to you, your g/f and any kids that come along, you're shooting yourself and them in the foot in terms of life options.

On top of that, are you guaruanteed a uni place if you go back to Ireland? Are you guaruanteed a job that'll give you enough savings?

She's going through with it and staying in Ireland until she's finished Uni and told me she's not going to go back to Canada without me. We're considering her staying at my parents house until we're sorted.

I got 460 points in my leaving cert so yes I should get a place in Uni.

ryan095

LionelNashe wrote: »

You can't get into UCD this year can you? Or did you do a CAO application this year just in case?

No I can't go to UCD this year unfortunately

LionelNashe

ryan095 wrote: »

No I can't go to UCD this year unfortunately

No need for any hasty decision then. And the army has plenty of paid leave, and the vast majority of soldiers don't get killed, so why risk a criminal record. You wouldn't be able to even risk traveling through a UK airport or ferry port.

some useful info on this link:

http://ask.metafilter.com/229881/How-long-is-the-sentence-for-AWOL-soldiers

"For what it's worth I was the adviser to the accused in a couple of desertion/awol cases. Both lads had been absent for several months and both of them essentially pled guilty. Here are some things I recall:

This was in peacetime - different and much more severe rules apply for soldiers who abscond to avoid active duty. Did the boyfriend do this to skip a tour? If so this could be serious. (Note: going AWOL while on active service can get you in mortal danger but that doesn't seem to be the case).

I got both my guys a lawyer. Not everyone does this but simply having a civilian lawyer to explain and ask questions of the judge was invaluable. They don't need experience of courts martial they just need to want to understand the process, both of my guys were very interested getting some experience on the military side.

The army doesn't jail you unless they like you:
MCTC (Military Corrective and Training Centre) in Colchester is reserved for the people they want to hang on to. MCTC is hard time, a punishing constant regime of soldiering, lectures and PT. It is effectively a finishing school for soldiers and it turns out the some of the very best and sends them back to battalion. Lots of RSM's SMIGS etc. have some Colly time.

However I doubt you're headed for MCTC: If they don't want you then or you don't want them then they may charge you under civilian law and wash there hands of you through administrative discharge BUT, since going AWOL is not a civilian offence they can't do that. (No civi gaol would lock you up for AWOL) So their options are limited.

(You know, I confess, I'm confused about the *suspended* sentence for going AWOL, never heard of that)..

Courts Martial had a bad reputation in the past (back in my day yo). There were several high profile cases of insecure convictions etc. Things have changed, it's still rough justice but they now have properly trained permanent staff. They are much more consistent.

So in summary - in an all volunteer army the grown-ups really do not want unhappy/disruptive solders moaning about leaving encouraging others etc. etc. They just want you out before your **** spreads. They won't take you back, they can't stick you in civi gaol or MCTC so their options are few, they don't have much leverage on you.

So what happened to the guys of mine who pled guilty? Discharges for both of them, took 40 minutes. They went back to barracks to pick up their **** and say goodbye. Both were in a transit camp the next week.

Finally, I doubt that Canada considers a summary conviction for AWOL grounds to deny entry. And I seriously doubt that they have hooks into a UK courts martial DB."

ZeroThreat

Let's hope war with Russia doesn't break out anytime soon.

robertxxx

Tell them your uncle is Gerry Adams.

ryan095

LionelNashe wrote: »

No need for any hasty decision then. And the army has plenty of paid leave, and the vast majority of soldiers don't get killed, so why risk a criminal record. You wouldn't be able to even risk traveling through a UK airport or ferry port.

some useful info on this link:


"For what it's worth I was the adviser to the accused in a couple of desertion/awol cases. Both lads had been absent for several months and both of them essentially pled guilty. Here are some things I recall:

This was in peacetime - different and much more severe rules apply for soldiers who abscond to avoid active duty. Did the boyfriend do this to skip a tour? If so this could be serious. (Note: going AWOL while on active service can get you in mortal danger but that doesn't seem to be the case).

I got both my guys a lawyer. Not everyone does this but simply having a civilian lawyer to explain and ask questions of the judge was invaluable. They don't need experience of courts martial they just need to want to understand the process, both of my guys were very interested getting some experience on the military side.

The army doesn't jail you unless they like you:
MCTC (Military Corrective and Training Centre) in Colchester is reserved for the people they want to hang on to. MCTC is hard time, a punishing constant regime of soldiering, lectures and PT. It is effectively a finishing school for soldiers and it turns out the some of the very best and sends them back to battalion. Lots of RSM's SMIGS etc. have some Colly time.

However I doubt you're headed for MCTC: If they don't want you then or you don't want them then they may charge you under civilian law and wash there hands of you through administrative discharge BUT, since going AWOL is not a civilian offence they can't do that. (No civi gaol would lock you up for AWOL) So their options are limited.

(You know, I confess, I'm confused about the *suspended* sentence for going AWOL, never heard of that)..

Courts Martial had a bad reputation in the past (back in my day yo). There were several high profile cases of insecure convictions etc. Things have changed, it's still rough justice but they now have properly trained permanent staff. They are much more consistent.

So in summary - in an all volunteer army the grown-ups really do not want unhappy/disruptive solders moaning about leaving encouraging others etc. etc. They just want you out before your **** spreads. They won't take you back, they can't stick you in civi gaol or MCTC so their options are few, they don't have much leverage on you.

So what happened to the guys of mine who pled guilty? Discharges for both of them, took 40 minutes. They went back to barracks to pick up their **** and say goodbye. Both were in a transit camp the next week.

Finally, I doubt that Canada considers a summary conviction for AWOL grounds to deny entry. And I seriously doubt that they have hooks into a UK courts martial DB."

This helps alot. Thank you so much!!!

ryan095

ZeroThreat wrote: »

Let's hope war with Russia doesn't break out anytime soon.

Lets hope haha.

LionelNashe

ryan095 wrote: »

This helps alot. Thank you so much!!!

A lot of it could be wrong, but contacting an immigration lawyer does seem like a good idea

krissovo

ryan095 wrote: »

Were you in the British Army?

Yep, 15 years...Best years of my life, if your girlfriend is pregnant the army has a support mechanism in place. Speak to your platoon commander or the welfare officer who can give real and decent advice, your scenario happens a lot in the military. Same happened to me at 20 where I got a German girl pregnant, we ended up in a married quarter, eventually got married and I got on with a good career.

billy few mates

I have a cunning plan...

ryan095

Thanks for the help everyone.

ryan095

krissovo wrote: »

Yep, 15 years...Best years of my life, if your girlfriend is pregnant the army has a support mechanism in place. Speak to your platoon commander or the welfare officer who can give real and decent advice, your scenario happens a lot in the military. Same happened to me at 20 where I got a German girl pregnant, we ended up in a married quarter, eventually got married and I got on with a good career.

Are you Irish mate? Thanks for the advice

krissovo

ryan095 wrote: »

Are you Irish mate? Thanks for the advice

I am from Kerry, joined as a sapper with a couple of Cork lads and despite an interesting start to my career I was eventually commissioned and ended up a Captain.

ryan095

krissovo wrote: »

I am from Kerry, joined as a sapper with a couple of Cork lads and despite an interesting start to my career I was eventually commissioned and ended up a Captain.

Out of curiosity what made you join the British instead of the Irish?