Overlap with GAA

Tim Robbins

I just started playing GAA (Football) with a few elder statesmen. It's only kick about stuff but very enjoyable. I only played a tiny bit when younger.

Why is it good?

1. It's fast. Ball moves really fast around the field.
2. It's skillful. It's much harder getting the hand passing and kick passing accurate than I thought.
3. It's physical. More physical than Soccer but not as physical than Rugby.

While Football and Rugby compete with each they also really complement each other. I would go so far as saying that if you were coaching either sport I would play a stripped down version of the other.

I reckon in Rugby you don't really get into skills until you are 11+ but in GAA you are practising kicking off both feet and doing lots of hand to eye, change of pace etc way before that. And in Rugby, you do way more strength work, you do a lot more breaking the games down into units and that type of thinking would be beneficial in GAA.

GAA is more suited to the summer and harder ground and Rugby is better in the winter. It's also quite possible to be ok at one and really good at the other. I know one guy who was an ok rugby player but an inter county GAA player. Similarly, many players e.g. tommy Bowe were good GAA players but not superstars but in Rugby they are at Lions level. We're lucky we have so many field sports on offer in this country. I say get into as many as you can and pick the one you prefer when you 13 / 14 / 15.

Now looking at the Dublin team, they are so amazing, they remind me of the All Black. Absolute class.

It's a shame when people from one sport don't really get into the other one.
They are both very good sports and overlap in many ways. I would find it hard to believe that anyone who likes one can't seem to like the other.

Anyone any thoughts?

CatFromHue

I don't really like Gaelic Football but that's not because of the game itself but the diving and off the ball stuff. If I turn on a game and they're not focusing on that then I'll give it a bit of a watch, if they are I'd only watch it like I'd watch a car crash.

I also found it a bit rigid too in that you, or certainly when I played it as a kid, tended to have the one marker on you the whole time and didn't really roam the pitch that much.

I liked a bit of Hurley all right and if I were to go back playing Gaelic that would be the one I'd go for.

Soccer and then Rugby would have been my sports growing up.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I just started playing GAA (Football) with a few elder statesmen. It's only kick about stuff but very enjoyable. I only played a tiny bit when younger.

Why is it good?

1. It's fast. Ball moves really fast around the field.
2. It's skillful. It's much harder getting the hand passing and kick passing accurate than I thought.
3. It's physical. More physical than Soccer but not as physical than Rugby.

While Football and Rugby compete with each they also really complement each other. I would go so far as saying that if you were coaching either sport I would play a stripped down version of the other.

I reckon in Rugby you don't really get into skills until you are 11+ but in GAA you are practising kicking off both feet and doing lots of hand to eye, change of pace etc way before that. And in Rugby, you do way more strength work, you do a lot more breaking the games down into units and that type of thinking would be beneficial in GAA.

GAA is more suited to the summer and harder ground and Rugby is better in the winter. It's also quite possible to be ok at one and really good at the other. I know one guy who was an ok rugby player but an inter county GAA player. Similarly, many players e.g. tommy Bowe were good GAA players but not superstars but in Rugby they are at Lions level. We're lucky we have so many field sports on offer in this country. I say get into as many as you can and pick the one you prefer when you 13 / 14 / 15.

Now looking at the Dublin team, they are so amazing, they remind me of the All Black. Absolute class.

It's a shame when people from one sport don't really get into the other one.
They are both very good sports and overlap in many ways. I would find it hard to believe that anyone who likes one can't seem to like the other.

Anyone any thoughts?

I disagree if coaching either of playing striped down version of the other. How would you do so?
I totally disagree in rugby that you only really get into skills at 11+. From 8-11 can be so key to development and fundamentals there are taught.
I don't think you should be specialising at 13/14/15 as its too early and too young.
What ways of breaking down into units would you do in Gaelic that they don't already do in cases?
There is a huge number of people who do get into both and how is it hard to believe that anyone who likes one cant like the other. I love rugby but find gaelic very hard to watch at times the way its played, the way its refereed and how its controlled at large.

Rightwing

Of the 4 main sports in Ireland, GAA football would definitely be my least preferred. Very little skill in it.

19543261

Sure Rugby is the only sport that requires skill.

awec

I've posted on here before that I struggle to see the skill in gaelic football. I always thought that was just because I've never played it.

Because of that I don't find it as interesting to watch. I'd watch it, don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't be as exciting to me as a game of rugby, soccer or even hurling (and hurling is a sport I watch with pretty much no emotional attachment to any of the teams which IMO says a lot for how exciting a sport it is).

P_1

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

awec

P_1 wrote: »

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

Maybe that's a better way of putting it!

CatFromHue

P_1 wrote: »

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

From my limited memory of playing the main tactic was to try and lose your marker.

It's also the dirtiest game I've played.

corny

Great reading this.

People admitting they know next to nothing about the game but still feel comfortable making grand proclamations. Sad really.

'Tactics limited in the extreme' on a rugby forum made be laugh.

former legend

Have to agree with corny here lads, a few of the posts are embarrassing. Decent opening post.

Tim Robbins

awec wrote: »

I've posted on here before that I struggle to see the skill in gaelic football. I always thought that was just because I've never played it.

Have you ever played it?

Solo'ing at speed is skilful.
Hand passing / kick passing is skilful.
Having to use both hands and feet is skilful.
Stepping is skilful.
Change of pass is skilful.
Fielding a ball is skilful.

There's a huge amount of of hand to foot and hand to eye co-ordination, speed required.

Have you tried running after a rolling a ball with someone chasing you and chipping it up in a split second?

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I disagree if coaching either of playing striped down version of the other. How would you do so?
I totally disagree in rugby that you only really get into skills at 11+. From 8-11 can be so key to development and fundamentals there are taught.
I don't think you should be specialising at 13/14/15 as its too early and too young.
What ways of breaking down into units would you do in Gaelic that they don't already do in cases?
There is a huge number of people who do get into both and how is it hard to believe that anyone who likes one cant like the other. I love rugby but find gaelic very hard to watch at times the way its played, the way its refereed and how its controlled at large.

11+ yes. I started playing rugby at 12 and was up to speed pretty quickly from a Soccer background. I also tried to play GAA / Hurling etc after some successful outings in Irish camps etc but the local team were miles ahead of any new lads picking ut up. I knew a fair few loads who started rugby older from a GAA background and were all handy at it.

Kevin Maggs, John Hayse and the entire women's rugby team started playing rugby at 18 and were fine.

Rugby, I would see as far more tactical with its emphasis on set pieces, pre rehearsed moves etc.

Gaelic Football is more about skill and speed, You can either hit points on your weaker foot from 45M or you can't. You can either skin your marker or your can't. The last few years there has been more emphasis on tactics from the Northern teams changing defensive systems but there always has been tactical variation with some opting for a short hand passing game and others opting for a kick passing game. Also, just like in Rugby you try to create the overlap, there is something similar in GAA and always has been in that, a player will roam up from half back to midfield and / or midfield to half forward to create an extra man.

If you can keep creating that extra man, he will have that better shooting option.

As for breaking the game down more and more into units - that is something where rugby has always been ahead on. Coaches think of things like tackles count, how many ruck clearouts, how man blah blah blah. Similarly, in GAA they are thinking how many balls are they winning from kickouts, how many times defenders have forced certain forwards into passing instead of shooting etc and then building tactics and stradegy on top of that.

As for using one sport to help coach the other - absolutely.

In the old days, coaching was laps of the pitch. Then coaches realised rugby was more about intervals and recovery than endurance. So fitness changes to short sprints and recovery. Then, they realised it was about thinking with your brain and not just been athletic. There is no point being really fit if you can use your head and make split second decisions and whether to pass, take a hit or offload or what. So coaching changed to include lots of little games where you worked on interval fitness that involved little games that forced players to think.
Now here's the trick. You keep playing the same games, you get bored and training isn't as effective. Good coaches mix it up and get the most out of their sessions. Go and watch a GAA team warm up or train and you will see drills that are very similar to rugby drills. All I am saying is go one step further.

sydthebeat

As a coach of minis I can say that rugby is a lot more inclusive than gaa. At 8 years of age the skill level required in gaa is to be able to catch a high ball, kick off both feet, solo and hop, toe pick up, run fast, hand pass. In rugby at this age you need to be able to run forward and pass back, and take down tackle. There's always a place in under age rugby for the slow fat guys (no offense to anyone) where there no place in gaa.

There is also the tribalist "win at all costs" ethos in my local gaa clubs which is a big turn off for lots of people. This results in the side line players losing interest very quickly.

.ak

A lot of clubs play a bit of gaa to keep things fresh and interesting. You can learn a lot from it, especially positioning and how to compete in the air.

P_1

corny wrote: »

Great reading this.

People admitting they know next to nothing about the game but still feel comfortable making grand proclamations. Sad really.

'Tactics limited in the extreme' on a rugby forum made be laugh.

Now to be fair I have played the sport and the main tactic that was driven into me was to boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another. Now perhaps that was the coaches having a limited tactical awareness but even at the very top level of the sport you see this tactic being constantly employed.

Perhaps this is why Dublin are currently so dominant, they don't apply the 'hit and hope, boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another' tactic as much as other teams seem to do.

awec

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Have you ever played it?

Solo'ing at speed is skilful.
Hand passing / kick passing is skilful.
Having to use both hands and feet is skilful.
Stepping is skilful.
Change of pass is skilful.
Fielding a ball is skilful.

There's a huge amount of of hand to foot and hand to eye co-ordination, speed required.

Have you tried running after a rolling a ball with someone chasing you and chipping it up in a split second?

No I haven't played it, I said that in the post you quoted. I even said that not playing it is probably the reason why I don't appreciate it. I am sure the game is not totally devoid of skill otherwise anyone and everyone would be togging out for their county.

Any way, on the point of overlapping with other sports, I think it will depend on the person. There is no place in GAA or soccer for 16/17/18 plus stone men. Pace is highly desirable in all positions in GAA and soccer but isn't in rugby.

On the other hand to play rugby you need to be able to bulk yourself up just a bit. Being light wouldn't be much fun I imagine unless you have pace to compensate.

CatFromHue

former legend wrote: »

Have to agree with corny here lads, a few of the posts are embarrassing. Decent opening post.

enlighten us so

former legend

CatFromHue wrote: »

enlighten us so

What's to enlighten?

It's a sport that requires tactics as much as rugby or any other team sport.

Or was your initial post tongue in cheek and it went over my head?

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

11+ yes. I started playing rugby at 12 and was up to speed pretty quickly from a Soccer background. I also tried to play GAA / Hurling etc after some successful outings in Irish camps etc but the local team were miles ahead of any new lads picking ut up. I knew a fair few loads who started rugby older from a GAA background and were all handy at it.

Kevin Maggs, John Hayse and the entire women's rugby team started playing rugby at 18 and were fine.

The John Hayes example is quite out-dated in that he started playing rugby circa 25 years ago. The sport was completely different -amateur, provinces played 3/4 teams a year, clubs were king. Picking up the game these days at 18 will not see players making it to the top bar the odd person who will be just phenomenal. Yes you will see some who pick up rugby in their later years who'll turn out handy enough but will only be a junior club player in most cases

As for breaking the game down more and more into units - that is something where rugby has always been ahead on. Coaches think of things like tackles count, how many ruck clearouts, how man blah blah blah. Similarly, in GAA they are thinking how many balls are they winning from kickouts, how many times defenders have forced certain forwards into passing instead of shooting etc and then building tactics and stradegy on top of that.

I know rugby has always been ahead in regard to units and always will be but how would you do that more in Gaelic?

As for using one sport to help coach the other - absolutely.

In the old days, coaching was laps of the pitch. Then coaches realised rugby was more about intervals and recovery than endurance. So fitness changes to short sprints and recovery. Then, they realised it was about thinking with your brain and not just been athletic. There is no point being really fit if you can use your head and make split second decisions and whether to pass, take a hit or offload or what. So coaching changed to include lots of little games where you worked on interval fitness that involved little games that forced players to think.

Yes I agree and the best coaches ive seen involve mini games where fitness and skills are worked in. Joe Schmidt was at my club within the last few months and ran a training session for some of our underage players. He talked all time of games and linking it to fun and players thinking things out while not even realising theyre working on skills, fitness in 1.

sydthebeat wrote: »

As a coach of minis I can say that rugby is a lot more inclusive than gaa. At 8 years of age the skill level required in gaa is to be able to catch a high ball, kick off both feet, solo and hop, toe pick up, run fast, hand pass. In rugby at this age you need to be able to run forward and pass back, and take down tackle. There's always a place in under age rugby for the slow fat guys (no offense to anyone) where there no place in gaa.

There is also the tribalist "win at all costs" ethos in my local gaa clubs which is a big turn off for lots of people. This results in the side line players losing interest very quickly.

The win at all costs ethos is there in rugby but with mini rugby having been non-competitive since 2001 there has been changes over time to win at all costs ethos which has helped the sport in major way. GAA will take long time to adjust to that at younger age groups.

yimrsg

There's 14 outfield players so there's a huge amount of various formations. Some sides play only 2 in their full forward lines and drop one back into midfield or use him as a spare man at the back. Other times one of the half forwards would play in midfield full time and try create an extra man there and create more space up front. You rarely get to see how sides line out as the pitch is to big to see from a single camera angle but in up in the stands in croker you get a better sense of how sides line up.

Then there is the style of play, some sides like to handpass the ball forward and retain possession but it's painfully slow on occasions and sides just run back and defend their 45 metres from goal and deny any shooting space close in and give fouls away further up field so they can buy time to drop back. Dublin are more direct with their play so they tend to outpace the retreating defenders and attack en masse so there are plenty of options for the pass.

The game isn't limited tactically but there isn't that many great sides at the moment so many sides play defensively and try to spoil. Also for years, players were picked for their physical attributes rather than their technical ones. It's often hard to see great pieces of skill as the cynical and attritional nature of the game often means that fouls are very common.

corny

P_1 wrote: »

Now to be fair I have played the sport and the main tactic that was driven into me was to boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another. Now perhaps that was the coaches having a limited tactical awareness but even at the very top level of the sport you see this tactic being constantly employed.

Perhaps this is why Dublin are currently so dominant, they don't apply the 'hit and hope, boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another' tactic as much as other teams seem to do.

Really? These other teams you're referring to, who are they? Do Mayo, Donegal, Kerry or Dublin (the four semi finalists) play that way? Any of the quarter finalists? Armagh, Kildare, Meath for example. The only side i can think of you can possibly level that charge against is Monaghan and they really only play that way against the blanket defence.

And BTW if you have a lad like Michael Murphy playing 14 there's no hope in 'hit and hope' he will win the ball. With respect, the assumption that its brain dead to play that way just exposes the persons ignorance.

I agree with the OP, i love both games.

siochain

During rugby training we often played some GAA just to mix things up and have a bit of a competitive laugh.

Some really cringe worthy posts here knocking GAA skill levels and tactics.

Clareman

I can't believe people saying that another sport doesn't have any skill, trolls coming on here saying that rugby is a skill-less game with just brutes running into each other would get short shrift, in fact, it's a pet peeve of mine people thinking that other sports are skill-less just because you don't know anything about it.

Anyway, back to the post at hand, there are a number of skills that would over-lap between the both sports, clearly fielding and kicking would be the main ones, although the skills need tweaking due to the different shape of the ball and the difference in positioning of players. Other skills would be running lines, being able to spot a gap, supporting the player in position, spotting opposition moves, set play awareness.

Of the positions on the pitch, I think the second row match up to the mid-fielders, big, mobile lads with the ability to get up in the air. Number 12 would be the centre back, primarily a defensive position but able to switch to attack quickly as well as being able to score if needed. Number 13 would be the centre forward, the opposite of the 12 Back row would be a mixture of wing back & forwards (mobile, quick, checky f**kers who hope the ref doesn't spot them). Full backs would be the same on both teams, wingers the full back & forward. As for the front row, well, that's what Junior B is for

19543261

For the record, I was joking.

Tim Robbins

siochain wrote: »

During rugby training we often played some GAA just to mix things up and have a bit of a competitive laugh.

Some really cringe worthy posts here knocking GAA skill levels and tactics.

Sounds class. What club?

Tim Robbins

Clareman wrote: »

I can't believe people saying that another sport doesn't have any skill, trolls coming on here saying that rugby is a skill-less game with just brutes running into each other would get short shrift, in fact, it's a pet peeve of mine people thinking that other sports are skill-less just because you don't know anything about it.

Anyway, back to the post at hand, there are a number of skills that would over-lap between the both sports, clearly fielding and kicking would be the main ones, although the skills need tweaking due to the different shape of the ball and the difference in positioning of players. Other skills would be running lines, being able to spot a gap, supporting the player in position, spotting opposition moves, set play awareness.

Of the positions on the pitch, I think the second row match up to the mid-fielders, big, mobile lads with the ability to get up in the air. Number 12 would be the centre back, primarily a defensive position but able to switch to attack quickly as well as being able to score if needed. Number 13 would be the centre forward, the opposite of the 12 Back row would be a mixture of wing back & forwards (mobile, quick, checky f**kers who hope the ref doesn't spot them). Full backs would be the same on both teams, wingers the full back & forward. As for the front row, well, that's what Junior B is for

I like playing defense. I am not that good at it as I only started. Sort of worked out that if I stand a metre behind my man so he can't get ahead of me easily and then when a ball comes his way to all go for it or else to stand off him and make sure he can't shoot / pass easily. The tackle thing is hard to get. You will rarely dispossess them I find but you sort of make them make a mess of their possession, make a crap pass.

Gaelic Football is one sport that you actually can't stand still in when you are in possession. You still have to solo if you stand still - I love that aspect of it.

I love doing 1-2's in hand passes, remind me of a wrap around in rugby.

Obviously you can't still too long in other sports for too long because you'll be tackled but technically and legally you can. I love the way the ball moves so quickly in Football whereas something like Soccer it can't be frustratingly slow (unless you are playing with a really good passing team)

Another thing I think is brilliant about it, just say you find that in Rugby you can't play at a high level because you are not strong enough, well then GAA it is still possible to play at a high level just being moderately strong.

A lot of lads give up Rugby in their 20s because they are not strong enough to play AIL, J1, J2 and want something a bit more competitive than J3, J4 which is good but more social rugby. Surely, it's good to be able to have options and play the sport that suits you and at the sametime respect other sports.

The way some people go on is nuts. Could you imagine someone said, I like Swedish women but listen I really don't like Spanish ones. You'd think they are weird. I'd say go for the Swedish ones in the Summer and maybe Spanish in the winter.

Sadly, I think historically there's political reasons why some areas play rugby and why some play GAA. We should all be like Limerick and playing everything. More and more people in Dublin are thinking this way and that's great to see.

durkadurka

My young lad plays both gaa and rugby and he's developing a much greater range of skills in GAA.
In fact I still have hopes for him becoming a rugby player ( he's absolutely fcuking huge for an eight year old) but I think playing the GAA is more likely to get him there . Secondary school will be time enough for him to start rugby seriously.

Some of the snide shyte on here about GAA is a joke. You could just as easily say rugby is the stupidest sport in the world as we watch obese men with their hands up each other's arses or something.

Anyway all sports are useful. One thing I notice about most top sportsmen is that they played all sorts when they were younger.

awec

I hope nothing I have said has come across as me having a go at gaelic football. Just cause I don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there! :pac:

Buer

I don't think it's snide. I think it's simply borne out of ignorance. Can everyone here run without breaking stride while soloing a ball and curling a shot off their instep from 30m over a target at an angle or punting a ball into someone's chest on the run? I severely doubt it.

I didn't play rugby in school. I played GAA in the Gaeltacht with lads who had only played rugby and was bemused by their lack of coordination at football. I was, in turn, brutal at the rugby fundamentals. There's beauty in both.

There is nothing more limited about the GAA football skill set than there is rugby.

P_1

Ah I've always had a chip on my shoulder about the GAA since I was about 10. Fell victim to having hot shots from other teams being parachuted in at my expense for a final back in the day and I really should stop letting that cloud my opinions on the sport.

corny

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I like playing defense. I am not that good at it as I only started. Sort of worked out that if I stand a metre behind my man so he can't get ahead of me easily and then when a ball comes his way to all go for it or else to stand off him and make sure he can't shoot / pass easily. The tackle thing is hard to get. You will rarely dispossess them I find but you sort of make them make a mess of their possession, make a crap pass.

The tackle is a nightmare for most defenders because its really not cut and dry in the rulebook. Interpretation of the referee plays a big part. I wasn't a defender but you seem to have it worked out. Pressure often results in a turnover. The Donegal lads are masters at it.:)

Buer wrote: »

I don't think it's snide. I think it's simply borne out of ignorance. Can everyone here run without breaking stride while soloing a ball and curling a shot off their instep from 30m over a target at an angle or punting a ball into someone's chest on the run? I severely doubt it.

I didn't play rugby in school. I played GAA in the Gaeltacht with lads who had only played rugby and was bemused by their lack of coordination at football. I was, in turn, brutal at the rugby fundamentals. There's beauty in both.

There is nothing more limited about the GAA football skill set than there is rugby.

Agreed.

The bit in bold? Most people, even folks who watch a bit of football, really don't appreciate how difficult it is to kick accurately off the laces into a congested area. The likes of Ciaran McKeever or Ger Brennan make it look ridiculously easy. Its not. Its akin to ROG kicking out of hand. Looks easy to the person not familiar with the game. Its not.

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

I don't think it's snide. I think it's simply borne out of ignorance. Can everyone here run without breaking stride while soloing a ball and curling a shot off their instep from 30m over a target at an angle or punting a ball into someone's chest on the run? I severely doubt it.

I didn't play rugby in school. I played GAA in the Gaeltacht with lads who had only played rugby and was bemused by their lack of coordination at football. I was, in turn, brutal at the rugby fundamentals. There's beauty in both.

There is nothing more limited about the GAA football skill set than there is rugby.

It probably is.

What you've mentioned here though is a skill, not a tactic.

Pete_Cavan

P_1 wrote: »

Now to be fair I have played the sport and the main tactic that was driven into me was to boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another. Now perhaps that was the coaches having a limited tactical awareness but even at the very top level of the sport you see this tactic being constantly employed.

It is fair to say rugby has more tactics but that is very naive. Rugby is more tactical because it is more structured and based on set pieces and moves so tactics are more noticeable. In Gaelic football you cant predetermine things to the same extent - in rugby, defences line up on the offside line and the different styles of press up employed by different teams can be seen (all press, a shooter, out to in, flood midfield or spread wide, etc.). In Gaelic football players are spread out all over a much bigger pitch so it is harder to know how many players will be where (both your own and the opposition) and so tactics are more basic due to the lack of certainty.

Some basic tactics deployed in Gaelic football are bringing a corner forward out to create a third midfielder and leave more space close to goal or dropping a sweeper to protect your full back line but this is more about having the right number of players in a particular area of the pitch. The phased and structured nature of rugby allows for tactics to be taken a step further where you not only put players in a general area, you can have moves where certain players are given exact movements to make. You can also influence the position of opposition players more (pick and drive to suck in players, kicks to touch to keep wingers back, etc.) which brings more certainty to a game of rugby which cant happen to the same extent in Gaelic football. The lack of an offside rule means players are free to position themselves anywhere on the pitch which means tactics are not as developed or as sophisticated as rugby but seeing it as "boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another" is very blind.

The simpler tactics does not mean Gaelic football is any less skilful and in fact it could be argued that it is even more skilful as a rugby player could get by on muscle memory from training ground moves. Gaelic football is more off the cuff and reacting to situations and tactics are less advanced because the game is always fluid while rugby is more about influencing the game to allow you to implement your system. Of course in rugby you have some players, and to a lesser extent coaches, who want an unstructured fluid game, and even in the most structured of matches you have times where it breaks down and it becomes off the cuff and all about reacting and in these cases rugby reverts to Gaelic football type tactics. Gaelic football is played on the basis of organised chaos with constant scramble defence and speculative play which is enjoyable to watch but can also be a complete mess at times. Similarly in rugby, when the structure is lost, it can lead to very exciting play with a fast pace and offloads being thrown but can also result in basic skills not being implemented. That never lasts long because there is always a set piece then to establish the structure again.

I think Gaelic football is closer to 7s rugby than the 15 man game but you wouldnt hear the same nonsense being said here about 7s.

P_1

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

It is fair to say rugby has more tactics but that is very naive. Rugby is more tactical because it is more structured and based on set pieces and moves so tactics are more noticeable. In Gaelic football you cant predetermine things to the same extent - in rugby, defences line up on the offside line and the different styles of press up employed by different teams can be seen (all press, a shooter, out to in, flood midfield or spread wide, etc.). In Gaelic football players are spread out all over a much bigger pitch so it is harder to know how many players will be where (both your own and the opposition) and so tactics are more basic due to the lack of certainty.

Some basic tactics deployed in Gaelic football are bringing a corner forward out to create a third midfielder and leave more space close to goal or dropping a sweeper to protect your full back line but this is more about having the right number of players in a particular area of the pitch. The phased and structured nature of rugby allows for tactics to be taken a step further where you not only put players in a general area, you can have moves where certain players are given exact movements to make. You can also influence the position of opposition players more (pick and drive to suck in players, kicks to touch to keep wingers back, etc.) which brings more certainty to a game of rugby which cant happen to the same extent in Gaelic football. The lack of an offside rule means players are free to position themselves anywhere on the pitch which means tactics are not as developed or as sophisticated as rugby but seeing it as "boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another" is very blind.

The simpler tactics does not mean Gaelic football is any less skilful and in fact it could be argued that it is even more skilful as a rugby player could get by on muscle memory from training ground moves. Gaelic football is more off the cuff and reacting to situations and tactics are less advanced because the game is always fluid while rugby is more about influencing the game to allow you to implement your system. Of course in rugby you have some players, and to a lesser extent coaches, who want an unstructured fluid game, and even in the most structured of matches you have times where it breaks down and it becomes off the cuff and all about reacting and in these cases rugby reverts to Gaelic football type tactics. Gaelic football is played on the basis of organised chaos with constant scramble defence and speculative play which is enjoyable to watch but can also be a complete mess at times. Similarly in rugby, when the structure is lost, it can lead to very exciting play with a fast pace and offloads being thrown but can also result in basic skills not being implemented. That never lasts long because there is always a set piece then to establish the structure again.

I think Gaelic football is closer to 7s rugby than the 15 man game but you wouldnt hear the same nonsense being said here about 7s.

Very well put and like I've said earlier I need to stop letting my childhood experience of the sport clouding my opinions on it. Easier said than done though.

elefant

corny wrote: »

The tackle is a nightmare for most defenders because its really not cut and dry in the rulebook. Interpretation of the referee plays a big part.

Played a bit of Aussie Rules a while back for the first time, and one big difference I noticed was how clear-cut the rules were in tackling compared to Gaelic Football. It's something that could definitely benefit from some sort of an update from Croke Park.

About the 'hoofing it long' thing that's been mentioned a few times as a reason for Gaelic Football lacking tactics, this was certainly the case back in the 50s and 60s, where a great full back was a bull of a man, hands big enough to catch a bale of hay and would, without fail, drive the ball out as far as possible in the opposite direction every time he touched it without even a look up. Doing that nowadays would have you called to the line fairly quickly!

I think it's great how the two sports can compliment each other. I don't know how much grounding it has in fact, but I like the idea that the Irish rugby squad seem to have such good high-fielders in part because of a Gaelic games background. Folau certainly seemed to have benefited from his AFL experiences!

Taco Corp

P_1 wrote: »

Very well put and like I've said earlier I need to stop letting my childhood experience of the sport clouding my opinions on it. Easier said than done though.

I'm in the same boat. I played football until I was 16 but it was the culture of the club I played for that drove me away. I used the cover of leaving cert as an excuse. all these years later those experiences are still clouding my opinion of the sport and some who play it. but I guess that's my problem not theirs

Diabhal Beag

Just for those who mightn't have watched enough football to appreciate the skill and how it does compliment rugby.

Here's a great break. Tom Flynn gets the ball before he's out of his own half on a massive pitch. He has to hop, solo, hold off markers, lookup and eventually shoot all in the space of a few mere seconds. Granted the defending was a bit **** initially but you can see at the end of the clip how tactical the runs off the ball are to create that space for Flynn to score. Maybe not as exciting as Cian Healy murdering fools on his way to the line but a great example of how they go hand in hand in many ways.

As for points this is a favourite of mine, even though it's Mayo. The composure and coolness needed to slot that over from that angle in that time is ridiculous.

Reminds me a lot of a certain Francois Steyn. Any chance to bring up Francois Steyn in anything is a chance worth taking. He must have a foot like a traction engine.

P_1

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. I played football until I was 16 but it was the culture of the club I played for that drove me away. I used the cover of leaving cert as an excuse. all these years later those experiences are still clouding my opinion of the sport and some who play it. but I guess that's my problem not theirs

Quite true, you can't really knock a sport due to how its organisers go about things.

I don't like GAA. I'd watch it the odd time but I would never dismiss it as "unskilled" or anything like that. That is incredibly narrow-minded.

As sports go, it is very easy to watch a game of it without any prior knowledge. I couldn't say the same about Rugby.

Tim Robbins

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't like GAA. I'd watch it the odd time but I would never dismiss it as "unskilled" or anything like that. That is incredibly narrow-minded.

As sports go, it is very easy to watch a game of it without any prior knowledge. I couldn't say the same about Rugby.

Another thing I prefer about Gaelic Football is that in Rugby so much of the attacking and decision making comes through the 10. He's the real thinking man in every attack. But, I find in GAA you are all a 10. Do you short / long pass, go down the left or the right, beat your man, dummy, fist pass, do a 1 - 2 and you make these decisions regularly no matter where you are.

I know some people will say - hey if you are decent rugby player you will be thinking all time, but there are degrees.

As for the tackle, yeah that used to reck my head. I didn't get it all. But the thing I didn't realise was that you can't actually stand still when in possession in GAA. So the role of the tackler is to kind of force the ball carrier into an awkard situation so he can't score, does a crap pass. What you will notice is if you cover your man, he will f*ck up the next pass / shot. You might occasionally get the ball, but the idea is to make him f*ck up.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Another thing I prefer about Gaelic Football is that in Rugby so much of the attacking and decision making comes through the 10. He's the real thinking man in every attack. But, I find in GAA you are all a 10. Do you short / long pass, go down the left or the right, beat your man, dummy, fist pass, do a 1 - 2 and you make these decisions regularly no matter where you are.

I know some people will say - hey if you are decent rugby player you will be thinking all time, but there are degrees.

As for the tackle, yeah that used to reck my head. I didn't get it all. But the thing I didn't realise was that you can't actually stand still when in possession in GAA. So the role of the tackler is to kind of force the ball carrier into an awkard situation so he can't score, does a crap pass. What you will notice is if you cover your man, he will f*ck up the next pass / shot. You might occasionally get the ball, but the idea is to make him f*ck up.

The reason why Gaelic is so different to rugby in relation to decision makers like you describe is a lot to do with the lack of an offside line in gaelic which makes things so different to rugby where players set positions will determine in the main how much they will be involved in plays all through the game.
I think when you say in gaelic you are all a 10 is unfair on rugby players in other positions.

The tackle is not defined (properly IMO) in gaelic and that means the ways to dispossess players is not great. I disagree your role is to make the other player f*** up. That's ignorant of plenty of the work defenders do.

Buer

Captain_Hindsight wrote: »

I'm in the same boat. I played football until I was 16 but it was the culture of the club I played for that drove me away. I used the cover of leaving cert as an excuse. all these years later those experiences are still clouding my opinion of the sport and some who play it. but I guess that's my problem not theirs

I had a similar scenario which led to me being removed from the school panel as I wouldn't play for the local GAA club.

I enjoy watching GAA but they're a difficult organisation to have a lot of time for. Smalll minded politics at grass roots level is all too prevalent.

thomond2006

I'm surprised the provinces haven't reached out to one or two inter-county players to get them to change codes. I suppose perhaps it's hard to justify the money spent on putting a GAA player on a development contract.

Zzippy

Some surprisingly ignorant contributions from people who have clearly never played, nor watched much, GAA. I wonder would they say the same to some of the rugby players we know who came from GAA backgrounds - Brian O'Driscoll, Rob Kearney, Tommy Bowe to name a few. I'm sure they would be swiftly told to cop on... "very little skill in it" indeed :rolleyes:

heroics

I play both Gaa and Rugby at social level (Intermediete, J1-J3). I have noticed that in rugby it is generally the backs and the wing forwards who play both. The wingers and full backs that play GAA are more comfortable under the high ball and with the kicking from the hands in my experience. For example In 2006, former Kerry and Limerick coach Mickey Ned O'Sullivan was invited to South Africa to coach the rudiments of the Gaelic football high catch to the five Super 14 clubs. It was at the behest of the Springboks' high-performance unit that O'Sullivan made the journey as they sought to expand their kicking and catching game. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/crossing-codes-of-gaas-coaches-28892977.html#sthash.wypSdnpT.dpuf

Likewise when playing GAA it is generally the lads that have played or are playing rugby that are better able to identify a gap between 2 defenders, how to fix a defender in a 2 V 1 etc.

I think a summer playing Gaa or a winter playing rugby would be of benefit to both sets of players. Another example was a GAA player who went rugby training for a season because he identified that he was loosing the ball in contact too much during GAA and wanted to improve that part of his game.

Tim Robbins

thomond2006 wrote: »

I'm surprised the provinces haven't reached out to one or two inter-county players to get them to change codes. I suppose perhaps it's hard to justify the money spent on putting a GAA player on a development contract.

Graham Geraty look like he would be a brilliant Rugby player and couldn't make the Bucc's firsts when he gave Rugby a shot.

While there is definitely an overlap there are people who are suited more to one sport. The lad I knew who played inter county at GAA couldn't make his school team. I got the impression he didn't like getting creamed (judging by what he said to me when I creamed him once fairly and squarely in a youths game:) .

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

The tackle is not defined (properly IMO) in gaelic and that means the ways to dispossess players is not great. I disagree your role is to make the other player f*** up. That's ignorant of plenty of the work defenders do.

Can you elaborate? one sentence you are saying the tackle isn't defined properly and in another you are saying my explanation is ignorance.

Let's hear how your explanation differs to mine then.

former legend

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Graham Geraty look like he would be a brilliant Rugby player and couldn't make the Bucc's firsts when he gave Rugby a shot.

Was he not in his thirties at that stage though? Bit late to be taking the game by storm like.

Edit: 35 according to this interview
http://www.gaa.ie/gaa-news-and-videos/daily-news/1/2012131246-this-sporting-life-an-interview-with-graham-geraghty/

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Can you elaborate? one sentence you are saying the tackle isn't defined properly and in another you are saying my explanation is ignorance.

Let's hear how your explanation differs to mine then.

Where in the rules is there something defining a tackle and how to dispossess the player with the ball and I totally disagree that as a defender your role is to make a player f*** up. There is much more to defending than that. Shadowing a player into a bunch of defenders, forcing them to the touch line etc is not making a player f*** up

Richard Hillman

I think GAA football is very basic and has not progressed much over the years. I played a fair bit in primary school and a bit in secondary. I remember when I was playing as a kid, if the ball was on the ground and I was surrounded, I would pass it to a team mate from the ground like you would in normal football. Whenever I did the manager would shout "This isnt saccar". It takes about 2-3 seconds to pick it up within the rules and pass it with a GAA hand to ball kick. If you are surrounded by a few players it would be more logical to just kick it straight away.

I often see the County GAA players have the ball feed to them in the goal area on the ground. Instead of just kicking the ball into the net like in football, the high level players would pick it up and then try and kick from the hands. By that time the defenders are already on them and they cant score a goal. I see it so many times.

Another instance of "This isnt saccar" was when I misshandled a pass to me and the ball was rolling away. It was a near 50/50 with me and another guy to get the ball. I got there just before him but I was upright and he was trying to pick it up. When I got there I did a stepover, sent him the wrong way, took it by him and then passed the ball out on to the wing from the ground. I was absolutely chuffed with my bit of skill. I kept possession, made the opposition look a bit foolish and played a pass that stretched the opposition. My managers response: "This isnt saccar".

I also had a goal disallowed in a practice match for heading the ball into the net when I was a kid. I am fairly sure there are no rules against heading a ball. But of course "This isnt saccar".

The sport seems to be obsessed with not being "Saccar". If other countries started playing the sport at a decent level, the game would be transformed drastically and for the better. GAA football games can be very hard to watch.

I actually enjoyed playing and found it easier than football (of which I played nearly everyday) but the whole undercurrent of the sport turned me off. I have often thought about going to my local club to play. I regulary hear about them needing players but when I think back to all those days of being shouted at for trying different things, I just say nah.

Its like telling young Irish rugby players to never off-load during tackles. Just stick it up the jumper and run straight up the middle. We dont like trying new things around here. The GAA version of Brian O'Driscoll would have been hounded out of the sport. When you look back at some of the obscene skills that BOD performed in his time in Rugby, it is sad to think that GAA Football will never get a guy like that because managers just want conservative and basic GAA football. No 'Flashy' stuff.