Overlap with GAA

Tim Robbins

I just started playing GAA (Football) with a few elder statesmen. It's only kick about stuff but very enjoyable. I only played a tiny bit when younger.

Why is it good?

1. It's fast. Ball moves really fast around the field.
2. It's skillful. It's much harder getting the hand passing and kick passing accurate than I thought.
3. It's physical. More physical than Soccer but not as physical than Rugby.

While Football and Rugby compete with each they also really complement each other. I would go so far as saying that if you were coaching either sport I would play a stripped down version of the other.

I reckon in Rugby you don't really get into skills until you are 11+ but in GAA you are practising kicking off both feet and doing lots of hand to eye, change of pace etc way before that. And in Rugby, you do way more strength work, you do a lot more breaking the games down into units and that type of thinking would be beneficial in GAA.

GAA is more suited to the summer and harder ground and Rugby is better in the winter. It's also quite possible to be ok at one and really good at the other. I know one guy who was an ok rugby player but an inter county GAA player. Similarly, many players e.g. tommy Bowe were good GAA players but not superstars but in Rugby they are at Lions level. We're lucky we have so many field sports on offer in this country. I say get into as many as you can and pick the one you prefer when you 13 / 14 / 15.

Now looking at the Dublin team, they are so amazing, they remind me of the All Black. Absolute class.

It's a shame when people from one sport don't really get into the other one.
They are both very good sports and overlap in many ways. I would find it hard to believe that anyone who likes one can't seem to like the other.

Anyone any thoughts?

CatFromHue

I don't really like Gaelic Football but that's not because of the game itself but the diving and off the ball stuff. If I turn on a game and they're not focusing on that then I'll give it a bit of a watch, if they are I'd only watch it like I'd watch a car crash.

I also found it a bit rigid too in that you, or certainly when I played it as a kid, tended to have the one marker on you the whole time and didn't really roam the pitch that much.

I liked a bit of Hurley all right and if I were to go back playing Gaelic that would be the one I'd go for.

Soccer and then Rugby would have been my sports growing up.

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I just started playing GAA (Football) with a few elder statesmen. It's only kick about stuff but very enjoyable. I only played a tiny bit when younger.

Why is it good?

1. It's fast. Ball moves really fast around the field.
2. It's skillful. It's much harder getting the hand passing and kick passing accurate than I thought.
3. It's physical. More physical than Soccer but not as physical than Rugby.

While Football and Rugby compete with each they also really complement each other. I would go so far as saying that if you were coaching either sport I would play a stripped down version of the other.

I reckon in Rugby you don't really get into skills until you are 11+ but in GAA you are practising kicking off both feet and doing lots of hand to eye, change of pace etc way before that. And in Rugby, you do way more strength work, you do a lot more breaking the games down into units and that type of thinking would be beneficial in GAA.

GAA is more suited to the summer and harder ground and Rugby is better in the winter. It's also quite possible to be ok at one and really good at the other. I know one guy who was an ok rugby player but an inter county GAA player. Similarly, many players e.g. tommy Bowe were good GAA players but not superstars but in Rugby they are at Lions level. We're lucky we have so many field sports on offer in this country. I say get into as many as you can and pick the one you prefer when you 13 / 14 / 15.

Now looking at the Dublin team, they are so amazing, they remind me of the All Black. Absolute class.

It's a shame when people from one sport don't really get into the other one.
They are both very good sports and overlap in many ways. I would find it hard to believe that anyone who likes one can't seem to like the other.

Anyone any thoughts?

I disagree if coaching either of playing striped down version of the other. How would you do so?
I totally disagree in rugby that you only really get into skills at 11+. From 8-11 can be so key to development and fundamentals there are taught.
I don't think you should be specialising at 13/14/15 as its too early and too young.
What ways of breaking down into units would you do in Gaelic that they don't already do in cases?
There is a huge number of people who do get into both and how is it hard to believe that anyone who likes one cant like the other. I love rugby but find gaelic very hard to watch at times the way its played, the way its refereed and how its controlled at large.

Rightwing

Of the 4 main sports in Ireland, GAA football would definitely be my least preferred. Very little skill in it.

19543261

Sure Rugby is the only sport that requires skill.

awec

I've posted on here before that I struggle to see the skill in gaelic football. I always thought that was just because I've never played it.

Because of that I don't find it as interesting to watch. I'd watch it, don't get me wrong, but it wouldn't be as exciting to me as a game of rugby, soccer or even hurling (and hurling is a sport I watch with pretty much no emotional attachment to any of the teams which IMO says a lot for how exciting a sport it is).

P_1

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

awec

P_1 wrote: »

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

Maybe that's a better way of putting it!

CatFromHue

P_1 wrote: »

Ah now Gaelic Football has its skills. Off the top of my head you have fielding, kick and hand passing and scoring from play isn't as easy as it looks on the screen.

Now I do think it's tactics are limited in the extreme, basically kick the ball upfield, try catch it and either kick for the posts or boot it further up the field is what seems to happen 90% of the time.

From my limited memory of playing the main tactic was to try and lose your marker.

It's also the dirtiest game I've played.

corny

Great reading this.

People admitting they know next to nothing about the game but still feel comfortable making grand proclamations. Sad really.

'Tactics limited in the extreme' on a rugby forum made be laugh.

former legend

Have to agree with corny here lads, a few of the posts are embarrassing. Decent opening post.

Tim Robbins

awec wrote: »

I've posted on here before that I struggle to see the skill in gaelic football. I always thought that was just because I've never played it.

Have you ever played it?

Solo'ing at speed is skilful.
Hand passing / kick passing is skilful.
Having to use both hands and feet is skilful.
Stepping is skilful.
Change of pass is skilful.
Fielding a ball is skilful.

There's a huge amount of of hand to foot and hand to eye co-ordination, speed required.

Have you tried running after a rolling a ball with someone chasing you and chipping it up in a split second?

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I disagree if coaching either of playing striped down version of the other. How would you do so?
I totally disagree in rugby that you only really get into skills at 11+. From 8-11 can be so key to development and fundamentals there are taught.
I don't think you should be specialising at 13/14/15 as its too early and too young.
What ways of breaking down into units would you do in Gaelic that they don't already do in cases?
There is a huge number of people who do get into both and how is it hard to believe that anyone who likes one cant like the other. I love rugby but find gaelic very hard to watch at times the way its played, the way its refereed and how its controlled at large.

11+ yes. I started playing rugby at 12 and was up to speed pretty quickly from a Soccer background. I also tried to play GAA / Hurling etc after some successful outings in Irish camps etc but the local team were miles ahead of any new lads picking ut up. I knew a fair few loads who started rugby older from a GAA background and were all handy at it.

Kevin Maggs, John Hayse and the entire women's rugby team started playing rugby at 18 and were fine.

Rugby, I would see as far more tactical with its emphasis on set pieces, pre rehearsed moves etc.

Gaelic Football is more about skill and speed, You can either hit points on your weaker foot from 45M or you can't. You can either skin your marker or your can't. The last few years there has been more emphasis on tactics from the Northern teams changing defensive systems but there always has been tactical variation with some opting for a short hand passing game and others opting for a kick passing game. Also, just like in Rugby you try to create the overlap, there is something similar in GAA and always has been in that, a player will roam up from half back to midfield and / or midfield to half forward to create an extra man.

If you can keep creating that extra man, he will have that better shooting option.

As for breaking the game down more and more into units - that is something where rugby has always been ahead on. Coaches think of things like tackles count, how many ruck clearouts, how man blah blah blah. Similarly, in GAA they are thinking how many balls are they winning from kickouts, how many times defenders have forced certain forwards into passing instead of shooting etc and then building tactics and stradegy on top of that.

As for using one sport to help coach the other - absolutely.

In the old days, coaching was laps of the pitch. Then coaches realised rugby was more about intervals and recovery than endurance. So fitness changes to short sprints and recovery. Then, they realised it was about thinking with your brain and not just been athletic. There is no point being really fit if you can use your head and make split second decisions and whether to pass, take a hit or offload or what. So coaching changed to include lots of little games where you worked on interval fitness that involved little games that forced players to think.
Now here's the trick. You keep playing the same games, you get bored and training isn't as effective. Good coaches mix it up and get the most out of their sessions. Go and watch a GAA team warm up or train and you will see drills that are very similar to rugby drills. All I am saying is go one step further.

sydthebeat

As a coach of minis I can say that rugby is a lot more inclusive than gaa. At 8 years of age the skill level required in gaa is to be able to catch a high ball, kick off both feet, solo and hop, toe pick up, run fast, hand pass. In rugby at this age you need to be able to run forward and pass back, and take down tackle. There's always a place in under age rugby for the slow fat guys (no offense to anyone) where there no place in gaa.

There is also the tribalist "win at all costs" ethos in my local gaa clubs which is a big turn off for lots of people. This results in the side line players losing interest very quickly.

.ak

A lot of clubs play a bit of gaa to keep things fresh and interesting. You can learn a lot from it, especially positioning and how to compete in the air.

P_1

corny wrote: »

Great reading this.

People admitting they know next to nothing about the game but still feel comfortable making grand proclamations. Sad really.

'Tactics limited in the extreme' on a rugby forum made be laugh.

Now to be fair I have played the sport and the main tactic that was driven into me was to boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another. Now perhaps that was the coaches having a limited tactical awareness but even at the very top level of the sport you see this tactic being constantly employed.

Perhaps this is why Dublin are currently so dominant, they don't apply the 'hit and hope, boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another' tactic as much as other teams seem to do.

awec

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Have you ever played it?

Solo'ing at speed is skilful.
Hand passing / kick passing is skilful.
Having to use both hands and feet is skilful.
Stepping is skilful.
Change of pass is skilful.
Fielding a ball is skilful.

There's a huge amount of of hand to foot and hand to eye co-ordination, speed required.

Have you tried running after a rolling a ball with someone chasing you and chipping it up in a split second?

No I haven't played it, I said that in the post you quoted. I even said that not playing it is probably the reason why I don't appreciate it. I am sure the game is not totally devoid of skill otherwise anyone and everyone would be togging out for their county.

Any way, on the point of overlapping with other sports, I think it will depend on the person. There is no place in GAA or soccer for 16/17/18 plus stone men. Pace is highly desirable in all positions in GAA and soccer but isn't in rugby.

On the other hand to play rugby you need to be able to bulk yourself up just a bit. Being light wouldn't be much fun I imagine unless you have pace to compensate.

CatFromHue

former legend wrote: »

Have to agree with corny here lads, a few of the posts are embarrassing. Decent opening post.

enlighten us so

former legend

CatFromHue wrote: »

enlighten us so

What's to enlighten?

It's a sport that requires tactics as much as rugby or any other team sport.

Or was your initial post tongue in cheek and it went over my head?

The Lost Sheep

Tim Robbins wrote: »

11+ yes. I started playing rugby at 12 and was up to speed pretty quickly from a Soccer background. I also tried to play GAA / Hurling etc after some successful outings in Irish camps etc but the local team were miles ahead of any new lads picking ut up. I knew a fair few loads who started rugby older from a GAA background and were all handy at it.

Kevin Maggs, John Hayse and the entire women's rugby team started playing rugby at 18 and were fine.

The John Hayes example is quite out-dated in that he started playing rugby circa 25 years ago. The sport was completely different -amateur, provinces played 3/4 teams a year, clubs were king. Picking up the game these days at 18 will not see players making it to the top bar the odd person who will be just phenomenal. Yes you will see some who pick up rugby in their later years who'll turn out handy enough but will only be a junior club player in most cases

As for breaking the game down more and more into units - that is something where rugby has always been ahead on. Coaches think of things like tackles count, how many ruck clearouts, how man blah blah blah. Similarly, in GAA they are thinking how many balls are they winning from kickouts, how many times defenders have forced certain forwards into passing instead of shooting etc and then building tactics and stradegy on top of that.

I know rugby has always been ahead in regard to units and always will be but how would you do that more in Gaelic?

As for using one sport to help coach the other - absolutely.

In the old days, coaching was laps of the pitch. Then coaches realised rugby was more about intervals and recovery than endurance. So fitness changes to short sprints and recovery. Then, they realised it was about thinking with your brain and not just been athletic. There is no point being really fit if you can use your head and make split second decisions and whether to pass, take a hit or offload or what. So coaching changed to include lots of little games where you worked on interval fitness that involved little games that forced players to think.

Yes I agree and the best coaches ive seen involve mini games where fitness and skills are worked in. Joe Schmidt was at my club within the last few months and ran a training session for some of our underage players. He talked all time of games and linking it to fun and players thinking things out while not even realising theyre working on skills, fitness in 1.

sydthebeat wrote: »

As a coach of minis I can say that rugby is a lot more inclusive than gaa. At 8 years of age the skill level required in gaa is to be able to catch a high ball, kick off both feet, solo and hop, toe pick up, run fast, hand pass. In rugby at this age you need to be able to run forward and pass back, and take down tackle. There's always a place in under age rugby for the slow fat guys (no offense to anyone) where there no place in gaa.

There is also the tribalist "win at all costs" ethos in my local gaa clubs which is a big turn off for lots of people. This results in the side line players losing interest very quickly.

The win at all costs ethos is there in rugby but with mini rugby having been non-competitive since 2001 there has been changes over time to win at all costs ethos which has helped the sport in major way. GAA will take long time to adjust to that at younger age groups.

yimrsg

There's 14 outfield players so there's a huge amount of various formations. Some sides play only 2 in their full forward lines and drop one back into midfield or use him as a spare man at the back. Other times one of the half forwards would play in midfield full time and try create an extra man there and create more space up front. You rarely get to see how sides line out as the pitch is to big to see from a single camera angle but in up in the stands in croker you get a better sense of how sides line up.

Then there is the style of play, some sides like to handpass the ball forward and retain possession but it's painfully slow on occasions and sides just run back and defend their 45 metres from goal and deny any shooting space close in and give fouls away further up field so they can buy time to drop back. Dublin are more direct with their play so they tend to outpace the retreating defenders and attack en masse so there are plenty of options for the pass.

The game isn't limited tactically but there isn't that many great sides at the moment so many sides play defensively and try to spoil. Also for years, players were picked for their physical attributes rather than their technical ones. It's often hard to see great pieces of skill as the cynical and attritional nature of the game often means that fouls are very common.

corny

P_1 wrote: »

Now to be fair I have played the sport and the main tactic that was driven into me was to boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another. Now perhaps that was the coaches having a limited tactical awareness but even at the very top level of the sport you see this tactic being constantly employed.

Perhaps this is why Dublin are currently so dominant, they don't apply the 'hit and hope, boot the ball from one end of the pitch to another' tactic as much as other teams seem to do.

Really? These other teams you're referring to, who are they? Do Mayo, Donegal, Kerry or Dublin (the four semi finalists) play that way? Any of the quarter finalists? Armagh, Kildare, Meath for example. The only side i can think of you can possibly level that charge against is Monaghan and they really only play that way against the blanket defence.

And BTW if you have a lad like Michael Murphy playing 14 there's no hope in 'hit and hope' he will win the ball. With respect, the assumption that its brain dead to play that way just exposes the persons ignorance.

I agree with the OP, i love both games.

siochain

During rugby training we often played some GAA just to mix things up and have a bit of a competitive laugh.

Some really cringe worthy posts here knocking GAA skill levels and tactics.

Clareman

I can't believe people saying that another sport doesn't have any skill, trolls coming on here saying that rugby is a skill-less game with just brutes running into each other would get short shrift, in fact, it's a pet peeve of mine people thinking that other sports are skill-less just because you don't know anything about it.

Anyway, back to the post at hand, there are a number of skills that would over-lap between the both sports, clearly fielding and kicking would be the main ones, although the skills need tweaking due to the different shape of the ball and the difference in positioning of players. Other skills would be running lines, being able to spot a gap, supporting the player in position, spotting opposition moves, set play awareness.

Of the positions on the pitch, I think the second row match up to the mid-fielders, big, mobile lads with the ability to get up in the air. Number 12 would be the centre back, primarily a defensive position but able to switch to attack quickly as well as being able to score if needed. Number 13 would be the centre forward, the opposite of the 12 Back row would be a mixture of wing back & forwards (mobile, quick, checky f**kers who hope the ref doesn't spot them). Full backs would be the same on both teams, wingers the full back & forward. As for the front row, well, that's what Junior B is for

19543261

For the record, I was joking.

Tim Robbins

siochain wrote: »

During rugby training we often played some GAA just to mix things up and have a bit of a competitive laugh.

Some really cringe worthy posts here knocking GAA skill levels and tactics.

Sounds class. What club?

Tim Robbins

Clareman wrote: »

I can't believe people saying that another sport doesn't have any skill, trolls coming on here saying that rugby is a skill-less game with just brutes running into each other would get short shrift, in fact, it's a pet peeve of mine people thinking that other sports are skill-less just because you don't know anything about it.

Anyway, back to the post at hand, there are a number of skills that would over-lap between the both sports, clearly fielding and kicking would be the main ones, although the skills need tweaking due to the different shape of the ball and the difference in positioning of players. Other skills would be running lines, being able to spot a gap, supporting the player in position, spotting opposition moves, set play awareness.

Of the positions on the pitch, I think the second row match up to the mid-fielders, big, mobile lads with the ability to get up in the air. Number 12 would be the centre back, primarily a defensive position but able to switch to attack quickly as well as being able to score if needed. Number 13 would be the centre forward, the opposite of the 12 Back row would be a mixture of wing back & forwards (mobile, quick, checky f**kers who hope the ref doesn't spot them). Full backs would be the same on both teams, wingers the full back & forward. As for the front row, well, that's what Junior B is for

I like playing defense. I am not that good at it as I only started. Sort of worked out that if I stand a metre behind my man so he can't get ahead of me easily and then when a ball comes his way to all go for it or else to stand off him and make sure he can't shoot / pass easily. The tackle thing is hard to get. You will rarely dispossess them I find but you sort of make them make a mess of their possession, make a crap pass.

Gaelic Football is one sport that you actually can't stand still in when you are in possession. You still have to solo if you stand still - I love that aspect of it.

I love doing 1-2's in hand passes, remind me of a wrap around in rugby.

Obviously you can't still too long in other sports for too long because you'll be tackled but technically and legally you can. I love the way the ball moves so quickly in Football whereas something like Soccer it can't be frustratingly slow (unless you are playing with a really good passing team)

Another thing I think is brilliant about it, just say you find that in Rugby you can't play at a high level because you are not strong enough, well then GAA it is still possible to play at a high level just being moderately strong.

A lot of lads give up Rugby in their 20s because they are not strong enough to play AIL, J1, J2 and want something a bit more competitive than J3, J4 which is good but more social rugby. Surely, it's good to be able to have options and play the sport that suits you and at the sametime respect other sports.

The way some people go on is nuts. Could you imagine someone said, I like Swedish women but listen I really don't like Spanish ones. You'd think they are weird. I'd say go for the Swedish ones in the Summer and maybe Spanish in the winter.

Sadly, I think historically there's political reasons why some areas play rugby and why some play GAA. We should all be like Limerick and playing everything. More and more people in Dublin are thinking this way and that's great to see.

durkadurka

My young lad plays both gaa and rugby and he's developing a much greater range of skills in GAA.
In fact I still have hopes for him becoming a rugby player ( he's absolutely fcuking huge for an eight year old) but I think playing the GAA is more likely to get him there . Secondary school will be time enough for him to start rugby seriously.

Some of the snide shyte on here about GAA is a joke. You could just as easily say rugby is the stupidest sport in the world as we watch obese men with their hands up each other's arses or something.

Anyway all sports are useful. One thing I notice about most top sportsmen is that they played all sorts when they were younger.

awec

I hope nothing I have said has come across as me having a go at gaelic football. Just cause I don't see it doesn't mean it isn't there! :pac:

Buer

I don't think it's snide. I think it's simply borne out of ignorance. Can everyone here run without breaking stride while soloing a ball and curling a shot off their instep from 30m over a target at an angle or punting a ball into someone's chest on the run? I severely doubt it.

I didn't play rugby in school. I played GAA in the Gaeltacht with lads who had only played rugby and was bemused by their lack of coordination at football. I was, in turn, brutal at the rugby fundamentals. There's beauty in both.

There is nothing more limited about the GAA football skill set than there is rugby.

P_1

Ah I've always had a chip on my shoulder about the GAA since I was about 10. Fell victim to having hot shots from other teams being parachuted in at my expense for a final back in the day and I really should stop letting that cloud my opinions on the sport.