Aerial drones and space over my house

Koptain Liverpool

Article in the paper about the popularity of drones.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/game-of-drones-as-remote-pilots-ignore-the-rules-1.1891523?page=1

I noticed one of these hovering outside the front of my house recently.

I was tempted to go outside and smash it with a rock.

Would I be within my rights to do so??

seamus

No, you wouldn't.

However if you were to get your hands on a frequency jammer and prevent the owner from controlling it until it runs out of power and crashes, they'd have very little comeback.

biko

You should probably ask in Legal Discussion but here's my take on it.


Tiny SAMs will do the job.

Koptain Liverpool

seamus wrote: »

No, you wouldn't.

However if you were to get your hands on a frequency jammer and prevent the owner from controlling it until it runs out of power and crashes, they'd have very little comeback.

But isn't it trespassing on my private property?

Or is the air around my house public space?

If it comes again I'm smashing it anyway.

seamus

You don't own the airspace around your property. If there is a camera on the drone, you have legal grounds to sue for invasion of privacy.

Either way however, it's criminal damage to smash the drone and the owner could very easily sue you for the cost of replacement and have criminal charges filed against you.

Signal jammer. Best way to go.

wazky

biko wrote: »

You should probably ask in Legal Discussion but here's my take on it.


Tiny SAMs will do the job.

Will throwing those nerf darts at it suffice?, and of course including to make the appropriate noises that a rocket would.

*whhooossshhh*

long range shooter

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Article in the paper about the popularity of drones.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/game-of-drones-as-remote-pilots-ignore-the-rules-1.1891523?page=1

I noticed one of these hovering outside the front of my house recently.

I was tempted to go outside and smash it with a rock.

Would I be within my rights to do so??

as long as they dont carry hellfire missiles,i am sure they are pretty harmless

gctest50

seamus wrote: »

Signal jammer. Best way to go.

no no - they just return "home" if they lose radio contact

BeerWolf

Wonder how many use it for voyeurism... :pac:

Koptain Liverpool

long range shooter wrote: »

as long as they dont carry hellfire missiles,i am sure they are pretty harmless

So if you head round to outside your house and start videoing it you wouldn't have a problem?

Apart from being an invasion of my privacy surely thieves will soon be using these to scope out potential properties to rob.

Wossack

probably slightly more illegal to use a signal jammer, vs just lamping it with stones

Im going with barrage balloons personally

whisky_galore

Don't think the law has caught up with the technology; that people are openly flouting the law by not having a licence is proof that the existing laws are not being enforced at all. Just wait until it's proven that someone's house was burgled using a drone for intel or someone gets a slap on the head from one for the legal system to wake up in its usual reactive way.

BeerWolf

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

thieves will soon be using these to scope out potential properties to rob.

They already are

pablo128

It's probably the Social Welfare. Are you claiming Lone Parents?:pac:

I'd try to capture it alive, wait till the owner turns up, and ask them why the fcuk they are spying on you. If I couldn't capture it alive, I would smash it.

seamus

I wonder if you made one of these crash using a jammer, would the operator be legally obliged to file a crash report with the IAA? Even more of a reason to do it if so.

long range shooter, "harmless" is something you can apply to actions, not to objects. The potential for privacy invasion using drones is massive, from hovering outside your hot neighbour's bedroom window to spying on a celebrity taking a swim. Security concerns also abound - spying on a bank manager as they go about their daily life or listening outside a boardroom's window.

That's not to mention the eventuality that someone will use a drone to deliver a small explosive device.

no no - they just return "home" if they lose radio contact

How do they know where "Home" is, if they have no GPS?

Lou.m

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

Article in the paper about the popularity of drones.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/game-of-drones-as-remote-pilots-ignore-the-rules-1.1891523?page=1

I noticed one of these hovering outside the front of my house recently.

I was tempted to go outside and smash it with a rock.

Would I be within my rights to do so??

WHAT DID YOU DO???

Grayson

I used to have RC planes and stuff as a kid. they were great fun and still are. The newer RC helicopters and quad copters are pretty cool too. they are educational and can get some kids into flying and engineering.

I can't see any issues with privacy if people are in a public place. Surely it would be the same as if someone took a photo in a public place. I could understand if someone was filmed in their backgarden. they have a reasonable expectation of privacy there. But not whilst walking in a park or on the street.

I'm not sure, but i think if someone does attempt to damage one, either with a garden hose or signal jammer, they are still liable for the damage.

LeinsterDub

Aren't signal jammers illegal? .I know cinemas used to have them and had to remove them.

gctest50

seamus wrote: »

..

How do they know where "Home" is, if they have no GPS?

cos some have gps ?

Recently he sent his drone down to the seafront at Dún Laoghaire from Glenageary, again trusting the GPS system. “I lost complete control for four minutes as it completed its mission. My worry is if it falls out of the sky.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/game-of-drones-as-remote-pilots-ignore-the-rules-1.1891523?page=2

Koptain Liverpool

Lou.m wrote: »

WHAT DID YOU DO???

Nothing, it was gone before I had a chance to do anything.

I have a stockpile of rocks outside for the next time it appears though!

Tokyo

BeerWolf wrote: »

Wonder how many use it for voyeurism... :pac:

"The IT professionals in their early 30s manning the drones look harmless."

I'm thinking, most of them.

seamus

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Aren't signal jammers illegal? .I know cinemas used to have them and had to remove them.

Yes they are, but in this case you could argue that two wrongs make a right.

The operator would need to prove that a signal jammer was used (and it was you who used it) and it wasn't just a malfunction or an error on their part.

gctest50 wrote: »

cos some have gps ?

Radio signal jammer will block GPS. GPS is very weak, very easy to block.

Grayson

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Aren't signal jammers illegal? .I know cinemas used to have them and had to remove them.

I'd imagine so. Even if it's not completely illegal it would be limited in range and where it could be used. I know with older RC equipment you couldn't operate it within a certain distance of hospitals since it blocked out the ambulance radios.

SEPT 23 1989

“Fly, my pretties” Joan Burton said at the launch of her departments new Social Welfare Fraud Detection Drones

whisky_galore

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

“Fly, my pretties” Joan Burton said at the launch of her departments new Social Welfare Fraud Detection Drones

To a 'Flight of the Valkyries' Soundtrack....

Turtyturd

Did you order anything from Amazon app recently OP?

Tokyo

Turtyturd wrote: »

Did you order anything from Amazon app recently OP?

How long before people start taking out amazon drones with signal jammers, in order to get themselves a free gift???

Turtyturd

mike_ie wrote: »

How long before people start taking out amazon drones with signal jammers, in order to get themselves a free gift???

Who needs a signal jammer when there are plenty of rocks around?

The_Valeyard

whisky_galore wrote: »

Don't think the law has caught up with the technology; that people are openly flouting the law by not having a licence is proof that the existing laws are not being enforced at all. Just wait until it's proven that someone's house was burgled using a drone for intel or someone gets a slap on the head from one for the legal system to wake up in its usual reactive way.

Don't think a licence is needed if below a certain height. Drones may not be the best tool for breaking into a house or snooping. Very unusual objects that people would notice.

pablo128

'Man throws rock at drone and misses, breaking neighbours windscreen. Drone captures incident on video and uploads to Youtube.'
That would be priceless.

Kimbot

Didnt they use a drone to try get drugs into Wheatfield/Cloverhill prison recently?

whisky_galore

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Don't think a licence is needed if below a certain height. Drones may not be the best tool for breaking into a house or snooping. Very unusual objects that people would notice.

If a drone is physically capable of going to or exceeding that height then the law should apply, not counting on someone's 'honesty' that they won't fly that high.

Kirby

whisky_galore wrote: »

If a drone is physically capable of going to or exceeding that height then the law should apply, not counting on someone's 'honesty' that they won't fly that high.

That's not how the law works. The fact that you can use something to break the law, doesn't mean owning or using said object is illegal.

You don't need a license to fly a "drone". Information about this is in the Models forum here on boards.

You will have to put up with the odd 20 year old model asking about casting agents and headshots who stumbles into the place by mistake though. :P

Wossack

seamus wrote: »

I wonder if you made one of these crash using a jammer, would the operator be legally obliged to file a crash report with the IAA? Even more of a reason to do it if so.

long range shooter, "harmless" is something you can apply to actions, not to objects. The potential for privacy invasion using drones is massive, from hovering outside your hot neighbour's bedroom window to spying on a celebrity taking a swim. Security concerns also abound - spying on a bank manager as they go about their daily life or listening outside a boardroom's window.

That's not to mention the eventuality that someone will use a drone to deliver a small explosive device.

How do they know where "Home" is, if they have no GPS?

On the subject of security concerns - there was that incident in June with a drone with a payload of drugs crashing in Wheatfield jail

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/helicopter-drone-crashes-in-prison-yard-carrying-drugs-cargo-1.1846124

pretty novel I thought! Was reported on ElReg too - http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/06/26/irish_drone_delivery/

The_Valeyard

jonny24ie wrote: »

Didnt they use a drone to try get drugs into Wheatfield/Cloverhill prison recently?

Yep. But didn't work.Guards noticed the buzzing ufo landing in the yard.

TheQuietFella

seamus wrote: »

You don't own the airspace around your property. If there is a camera on the drone, you have legal grounds to sue for invasion of privacy.

Either way however, it's criminal damage to smash the drone and the owner could very easily sue you for the cost of replacement and have criminal charges filed against you.

Signal jammer. Best way to go.

I assume you do own the airspace! You own everything that goes above your roof to the very limits of the atmosphere although you can't expect air companies to write to every property owner asking permission to fly over their property.

comongethappy

At what point did the expression "remote control helicopter" get replaced by "drone?

ironclaw

seamus wrote: »

How do they know where "Home" is, if they have no GPS?

GPS is actually surprisingly hard to jam at any sort of distance. Also, highly illegal to do so.

My name is URL

whisky_galore wrote: »

Just wait until it's proven that someone's house was burgled using a drone for intel or someone gets a slap on the head from one for the legal system to wake up in its usual reactive way.

Well AH has already responded in its own usual reactive way. All them fellas with drones are obviously up to no good, spying on naked womens and planning burglaries

ffs

Shur just ban them and have done with it. To hell with those who enjoy using them as an innocent hobby.

A few posters in this thread remind me of the woman in the below video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIGRRRcuvQw

donegal__road

seamus wrote: »

You don't own the airspace around your property. If there is a camera on the drone, you have legal grounds to sue for invasion of privacy.

Either way however, it's criminal damage to smash the drone and the owner could very easily sue you for the cost of replacement and have criminal charges filed against you.

Signal jammer. Best way to go.

I didn't realise this... so I could theoretically, levitate in my neighbours driveway and float there for the day, and I wouldn't be trespassing?

The_Valeyard

donegal__road wrote: »

I didn't realise this... so I could theoretically, levitate in my neighbours driveway and float there for the day, and I wouldn't be trespassing?

No, as you could be hit by a drone passing by.

Dyr

donegal__road wrote: »

I didn't realise this... so I could theoretically, levitate in my neighbours driveway and float there for the day, and I wouldn't be trespassing?

You could just stick a crane on your property and hang it over the neighbors wall

I'd be getting out the oul black widow catapult

Turtyturd

donegal__road wrote: »

I didn't realise this... so I could theoretically, levitate in my neighbours driveway and float there for the day, and I wouldn't be trespassing?

At least until they theoretically came out and smashed you with a rock.

seamus

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I assume you do own the airspace! You own everything that goes above your roof to the very limits of the atmosphere although you can't expect air companies to write to every property owner asking permission to fly over their property.

Why would you assume you own the airspace. And no you don't own the airspace up to the limits of the atmosphere. That's just crazy talk.

donegal__road wrote: »

I didn't realise this... so I could theoretically, levitate in my neighbours driveway and float there for the day, and I wouldn't be trespassing?

Yes. But your neighbour could just push you out the gate to float in the middle of the road

comongethappy wrote: »

At what point did the expression "remote control helicopter" get replaced by "drone?

I think when drones became much easier to fly than helicopters to the point that they can be easily flown by anyone with opposable thumbs.

everlast75

Lije a previous poster said, using a scrambler would be the way to go if you noticed continuous use at your property.
The way I see it, of its a once off it is innocent enough. Anymore than that and it's annoying bordering on harassment.
Let them take you to Court and explain why they thought it was reasonable to park a drone over your house.

Oh and you do own a certain part of the air above your house. If trees impinge on your property you have a right to cut them back even though they technically aren't in your property.

seamus

ironclaw wrote: »

GPS is actually surprisingly hard to jam at any sort of distance. Also, highly illegal to do so.

http://www.jammer4uk.com/handheld-antitracking-gpsl1-l2l3l4l5-jammer-j242g-p-29.html?zenid=5i0scb4hu0ncr5ac104ntqqct0

15 metres. Easily enough to cover the airspace around your average sub/urban home. Probably a bit of a waste though. The drone would use the information it has in memory to back track until it finds the GPS signal. Probably better to instead transmit a false GPS signal that tells the drone it's in Australia or something.

Or a failsafe that I'm sure someone will build in; just fly straight up until GPS re-establishes.

everlast75

I remember simpler times when a "jammer" was your mates piece of sh*t car you bummed lifts in

whisky_galore

seamus wrote: »

I think when drones became much easier to fly than helicopters to the point that they can be easily flown by anyone with opposable thumbs.

And way more affordable, before you'd have to join a club and learn how to fly a seriously expensive piece of kit in an open field, not p*ss around with them in urban areas.

Kirby

It's a lot cheaper to just get a quadcopter or helicopter and fly It around your back yard. Toy grade stuff.

But to make it a "drone" it needs to have a camera and FPV capability and the ability to fly a few kilometres away from you and that is still expensive. 500-1000 for the very entry level.

ironclaw

seamus wrote: »

http://www.jammer4uk.com/handheld-antitracking-gpsl1-l2l3l4l5-jammer-j242g-p-29.html?zenid=5i0scb4hu0ncr5ac104ntqqct0

15 metres. Easily enough to cover the airspace around your average sub/urban home. Probably a bit of a waste though. The drone would use the information it has in memory to back track until it finds the GPS signal. Probably better to instead transmit a false GPS signal that tells the drone it's in Australia or something.

Or a failsafe that I'm sure someone will build in; just fly straight up until GPS re-establishes.

15m at best, closer to 5m in reality. Its still illegal though. False GPS signal is even harder again and takes serious hardware to do so.

Your far better off just jamming the control signal, but even then, its a fairly grey area.

That said, you are fully entitled to own and operate an Airsoft gun in the comfort of your own home...

long range shooter

Koptain Liverpool wrote: »

So if you head round to outside your house and start videoing it you wouldn't have a problem?

Apart from being an invasion of my privacy surely thieves will soon be using these to scope out potential properties to rob.

i am sure you can do the same with a pair of binoculars,a bit exaggerated that theory if you ask me