Raptor Persecution

A2LUE42

Some bloody clown has done it again. In Wexford this time.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/appeal-after-peregrine-falcon-illegally-shot-in-co-wexford-1.1895617

The National Parks and Wildlife Service is has appealed for information after a young peregrine falcon was illegally shot in Co Wexford.
The native bird of prey had to be euthanised by the parks service after it was found shot at Ballynastraw near Enniscorthy due to the severity of its injuries.

The falcon was young and on one of its first flights, according to an identification ring on its leg.

Peregrine falcons are a protected species and receive high legal protection under law . The killing of them is a criminal offence.
Anyone with information which could assist the investigation is asked to contact Mr Berridge at 076-1002660

OpenYourEyes

Mod Note: I've moved the above comment from a thread on WTSE persecution - it pains me to say that we might get use out of a thread where we can post/discuss all raptor persecution incidents.

OpenYourEyes

The NARGC have also commented:

The National Association of Regional Game Councils (NARGC) was also critical of the incident, saying the illegal killing of protected species is “damaging to the interests of all responsible law-abiding firearms owners in Ireland”.

“Whatever the intent was to commit such a serious offence, any right-minded firearms owner will find this illegal act completely irresponsible and blatantly unacceptable,” commended Director of NARGC, Des Crofton.

http://www.thejournal.ie/falcon-shot-wexford-1617205-Aug2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

Birdnuts

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

The NARGC have also commented:


http://www.thejournal.ie/falcon-shot-wexford-1617205-Aug2014/?utm_source=twitter_self

Good to see the NARGC continuing its policy of condemning the mindless morons responsible for such crimes. Reflecting the fact that the vast majority of hunters and gun owners are decent people who abhor such crimes.

OpenYourEyes

Birdnuts wrote: »

Good to see the NARGC continuing its policy of condemning the mindless morons responsible for such crimes. Reflecting the fact that the vast majority of hunters are decent people who abhor such crimes.

I completely agree. Glad they choose to make these statements rather than ignore it. Will hopefully make firearms owners who engage in illegal activity realise that they are on their own and don't have the support of the majority of shooters who act legally and have some respect for wildlife.

homerhop

It's sickening that these birds are shot, absolutely no need. Now the shooting community who condone these things are all going to be lumped in with these fools

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

homerhop wrote: »

It's sickening that these birds are shot, absolutely no need. Now the shooting community who condone these things are all going to be lumped in with these fools

I assume you meant who do not condone these things.

Capercaille

A small minority cause the damage, but there are continuous problems with raptors been shot/poisoned in this Country. The "minority" is obviously not small enough.

dodderangler

Again some complete idiot is making the hunting community out to be mindless killers.
Absolute fool and I hope he's caught and gets a sentence or at least a good hidin

Vegeta

The type of asshats who commit these crimes really boil my blood. Disgusted to see another of these cases. :mad:

homerhop

The sad thing is you will never get rid of these people , you will always have the one who is anti raptor because their father told them they seen them taking a fully grown pheasant or some other clap trap like that.
I have been involved in rearing birds for the guts of 20 years, when rearing you factor in for losses. Sure you try to keep it to a minimum but you don't go shooting birds of prey or buzzards.
I know where they nest in the local woods, I know where they perch up n the evening before going back to the nests and I got great enjoyment out of having them come to within 20 ft of me and anyone who I brought along to show..

Crann na Beatha

This post has been deleted.

dodderangler

homerhop wrote: »

The sad thing is you will never get rid of these people , you will always have the one who is anti raptor because their father told them they seen them taking a fully grown pheasant or some other clap trap like that.
I have been involved in rearing birds for the guts of 20 years, when rearing you factor in for losses. Sure you try to keep it to a minimum but you don't go shooting birds of prey or buzzards.
I know where they nest in the local woods, I know where they perch up n the evening before going back to the nests and I got great enjoyment out of having them come to within 20 ft of me and anyone who I brought along to show..

Great post and dead right. We'll never get rid of them. Sure birds of prey take full grown horses and everything.
Worst part is that this bird was more than likely being watched. Highly doubt that it just flew across the path of a lad out hunting. I reckon this bird or it's best was being watched and unfortunately the bird flew out .
Sickening to see it still going on.

OpenYourEyes

We'll never get rid of them, but the goal is to firstly drastically reduce the number of people who a) would think there's any benefit to illegally killing a raptor, and b) would ever let it cross their mind that killing a protected bird is something they could or should do.

Once the numbers of those sickeningly idiotic people is reduced, we need to be in a position where the remaining handful of criminals are regularly caught, prosecuted and appropriately punished.

Things like increased media attention and widespread condemnation from people from all walks of life, particularly the NARGC, will definitely improve things in the long run.

I think ideally we'd need more NPWS rangers to tackle these things, and something like a wildlife liason officer or a dedicated member of the Gardai to specifically deal with wildlife crimes up and down the country and ensure prosectutions - these are the kinds of things we need to be mentioning to any local, national or european politician we come in contact with! Let them know we care and are sick of this!

Kess73

OpenYourEyes wrote: »

We'll never get rid of them, but the goal is to firstly drastically reduce the number of people who a) would think there's any benefit to illegally killing a raptor, and b) would ever let it cross their mind that killing a protected bird is something they could or should do.

Once the numbers of those sickeningly idiotic people is reduced, we need to be in a position where the remaining handful of criminals are regularly caught, prosecuted and appropriately punished.

Things like increased media attention and widespread condemnation from people from all walks of life, particularly the NARGC, will definitely improve things in the long run.

I think ideally we'd need more NPWS rangers to tackle these things, and something like a wildlife liason officer or a dedicated member of the Gardai to specifically deal with wildlife crimes up and down the country and ensure prosectutions - these are the kinds of things we need to be mentioning to any local, national or european politician we come in contact with! Let them know we care and are sick of this!

I think the bit in bold is what is needed most of all. People being charged and getting proper punishments.

Capercaille

Kess73 wrote: »

I think the bit in bold is what is needed most of all. People being charged and getting proper punishments.

Perhaps tightening of licensing of guns would be helpful. For example, The amount of people I know that think chough are just ordinary crows is staggering. I know of one chough that was shot, the fool though it was a grey crow.

homerhop

Capercaille wrote: »

Perhaps tightening of licensing of guns would be helpful. For example, The amount of people I know that think chough are just ordinary crows is staggering. I know of one chough that was shot, the fool though it was a grey crow.

We have one of the tightest gun laws in Europe, better education on species identification and seasons is what you seem to be suggesting. I agree with this but who would run it?

Half-cocked

homerhop wrote: »

We have one of the tightest gun laws in Europe, better education on species identification and seasons is what you seem to be suggesting. I agree with this but who would run it?

Tightest gun laws when it comes to security and danger to public safety. But no requirement to have any knowledge of the wildlife act or the open seasons order. For example, you can get a deer hunting license without ever having seen a deer in your entire life. With almost no enforcement in this country, there are a minority of gun owners who will continue to shoot protected species either deliberately or out of ignorance.

homerhop

Hence the reason I said a better education system for species and seasons. I don't think any hunter would have an objection to this as long as it was run fairly and not as with all things government run, turned into a money making racket.

Kess73

Capercaille wrote: »

Perhaps tightening of licensing of guns would be helpful. For example, The amount of people I know that think chough are just ordinary crows is staggering. I know of one chough that was shot, the fool though it was a grey crow.

I think the gun laws in Ireland are pretty good as it is, and I also think that species indentification amongst the vast majority of gun owners is pretty good in Ireland. I know a number of farmers and hunters who own firearms, and their knowledge of Irish wildlife and ability to tell species apart is excellent.

The problem is a small number of idiots who simply do not care what they shoot, and/or hold very ignorant views with regards to some species.

Would much rather see proper sentences given out each and every time one of these idiots gets caught, along with their ability to legally own a firearm taken from them. Because I think for many of the idiots an education programme would be a complete and utter waste of time and would not change their mindset in the slightest. But proper sanctions taken against them might force a change out of them.

Punish them harshly, and it might see some animals saved in the long run.

Capercaille

homerhop wrote: »

Hence the reason I said a better education system for species and seasons. I don't think any hunter would have an objection to this as long as it was run fairly and not as with all things government run, turned into a money making racket.

Most law-abiding shooters would be reasonable well versed in species identification and would know the game seasons. The specimens who shoot out of season/protected species would not be as well educated. Don't have a gun or shoot, but I would think that license for gun would be renewed on a regular basis.
A detailed examination could be done at that time and anybody who fails gets their gun taken off them. It should be an independent body and any profits should go into something like habitat protection or native gamebird/mammal projects.

dodderangler

Gun licences are renewed every 3 years.
I alway assumed that people who hunt knew about wildlife and such but last year I was proved wrong when I took a bloke out who got his gun licence and he thought red deer were extinct.
As long as you've a clean record you'll get a licence

Vegeta

Capercaille wrote: »

Most law-abiding shooters would be reasonable well versed in species identification and would know the game seasons. The specimens who shoot out of season/protected species would not be as well educated.

These scum-bags would probably be less informed yes, but they also don't care. It is a wilful ignorance. Unfortunately I think they'd pass any training given/required and then continue on as normal That is the real problem we need to solve. I see it in a lot of aspects of Irish society, not just hunting.

So I think the training alone would not solve this problem. Making the 99.9% of decent hunters sit through training which is unnecessary for them when the 0.1% will probably ignore it anyway just seems off to me.

Now does that mean I am against training? Definitely not, I just think we need to be honest about the type of people carrying out these crimes. Training may act as a reminder that government officials are taking this stuff seriously. Together with more policing, marketing (with the help of NARGC maybe) and real punishments/sentences handed down to those caught, then I think we'd be getting on the right track.

OpenYourEyes

I think increased education on raptors and what they eat etc. would be beneficial for every group that uses the countryside tbh - would help stop rumours and misinformation about the impact that certain raptors have on livestock, game birds, song birds etc. For example I've seen an article in a newspaper where a farmer was saying Buzzards moved in and now he has no blue tits/songbirds etc, and a lot of the persecution of Buzzards and WTSE's seems to be down to perceived conflict rather than actual conflict. I'm sure there's persecution of the smaller raptor species that we don't hear of that's down to them being an unknown threat - "they definitely kill stuff, and it might be my X,Y or Z". So if hunters, farmers etc. had sat down to take a test where they had studied a bit for it or taken a class beforehand where they found out that Buzzards mostly eat crows, rats and rabbits for example, that information would probably stick with them and disseminate over time amongst their peer groups. The exam just has to cover the basics too - nothing too hard or exhaustive.

I think the point that it shouldn't be treated as a money-making racket is an important one, and any payment should be minimal just to cover the costs of examination with anything extra put back into conservation of the relevant species.

I do have one experience of a guy I know who was out shooting in Roscommon and saw these big birds overhead that he had never seen before - they were Buzzards. His reaction was to find out what they were, report the sighting to Birdwatch Ireland, and to recall to me months later what a fantastic sight they were! Proof that a lack of information doesn't always lead to bad things, but I think proof also that a lot of hunters would welcome the chance to learn more about the wildlife around them.

As everyone has said though, enforcement and prosecution is a top priority if the situation is ever to improve. The DoAHG and relevant minister is great for giving two sentences about how bad it is that people commit these crimes, but not so great at actually ensuring resources are made available to tackle these crimes.

Capercaille

Vegeta wrote: »

These scum-bags would probably be less informed yes, but they also don't care. It is a wilful ignorance. Unfortunately I think they'd pass any training given/required and then continue on as normal That is the real problem we need to solve. I see it in a lot of aspects of Irish society, not just hunting.

So I think the training alone would not solve this problem. Making the 99.9% of decent hunters sit through training which is unnecessary for them when the 0.1% will probably ignore it anyway just seems off to me.

.

If the exam is detailed enough then most of the uneducated people committing these crimes would unlikely pass. As Dodderangler sayes as long as somebody has a clean record they can be let loose shooting, which is ridiculous.

trebor28

Some people just want to kill for the sake of killing.

I remember being on a small bus one evening coming back from a match.

There was a hare on the road, and got a little blinded by the lights and was a bit indecisive in getting out of the way.

Someone on the bus roared out "Mow him down"!

This wasnt a fox, badger, mink, or anything that could have a stigma against it for it to be "mowed down" on a road.

It was a hare.

The guy that said it was also in his late 20's not some teenager either.

Half-cocked

I had the most bizarre conversation with a pigeon fancier earlier today. In his opinion, by protecting birds of prey, we were creating an unnatural balance and as a result songbirds were dying out. I thought he was joking but he was serious. I asked what happened before humans started persecuting birds of prey? Why weren't all the song birds killed by raptors back then before we protected them from these predators? He looked at me blankly. I gave up and changed the subject.

OpenYourEyes

A case of people believing what they want to believe - it's been debunked plenty of times with hard evidence, not to mention the fact that it doesnt stand up to even basic scrutiny (as you showed). Unfortunately there's that 'Save Our Songbirds' crowd in the UK that have money from vested interests behind them that allows them to perpetuate that unsubstantiated rubbish to anyone who's willing to listen.

SlowBlowin

Eagles are blamed for every unexplained lamb death. We have eagles on the mountain where I live yet i have only ever witnessed hooded crows attacking lambs. I know the eagles take lambs too, but there's a feck load of hooded crows for each sea eagle.

SB

Birdnuts

SlowBlowin wrote: »

Eagles are blamed for every unexplained lamb death. We have eagles on the mountain where I live yet i have only ever witnessed hooded crows attacking lambs. I know the eagles take lambs too, but there's a feck load of hooded crows for each sea eagle.

SB

Studies in Scotland indeed show that the chance of loosing a lamb to an eagle is very remote indeed ie. For every 50 lambs that die from other causes(weather,foxes etc) less than one is killed by an eagle. In Ireland there have been no documented cases since the birds have been re-introduced. Indeed eagles could be viewed as the farmers friend in this regard as they predate vermin like various corvids, fox cubs etc. as shown from evidence gathered from nest sites and documented on the GET website.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/highlands_and_islands/8672303.stm

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/republic-of-ireland/ulster-eagles-cause-crow-attacks-on-lambs-to-decline-28563250.html

SlowBlowin

My CCTV camera filmed this lamb attack on my driveway.

SB

Zoo4m8

Interesting footage..typical Hoodie behaviour , the lamb is sick and they have spotted that, also there seems to be no mother, unfortunately now it's end is not going to be pleasant..

SlowBlowin

Hi

I am please to report the lamb made it, and lives on the mountain. The lamb was there because my wife "rescued" it. The sheep on the mountain should not have been in lamb, but one was. The mother was not very good, and the lamb was not doing very well, but thats all in the past now and he visits us most days.

I also have video of the same two hoodies trying to take an irish stoat, they really are a pair of intelligent opportunists !

SB

Zoo4m8

Thanks for the update, delighted to hear it. They certainly are opportunistic , for the past two weeks we've had a dozen or so Woodpigeons on the lawn picking out the clover, in the group are a number of juveniles and for the last couple days three hoodies have been walking among the pigeons.
It all seemed very innocent till I saw them jump a youngster, I went to his rescue but he seemed a little slow to fly away so I guess it's just a matter of time.

SlowBlowin

Yes, I think its good to post videos of the Hoodies activities it might help the Raptor persecution situation. I show all the local farmers the hoodie videos hoping its might help the eagles.

Last year I rescued a Raven that had a very close call with some lead, after feeding it up on cat food and bacon for 3 days it was fit enough to return to the wild, but it still came back every day for more food. I have some videos of that too, I will post them in another thread.

Heres the video of the hoodies after my stoat !

SB

Capercaille

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2014/10/03/another-peregrine-poisoned-in-derry/
More poisoning, this time in Derry, Northern Ireland.

OpenYourEyes

An interesting piece on a recent prosecution for raptor poisoning in the UK - with BirdTrack records helping getting him prosecuted. Just goes to show the potential and importance in 'citizen science'.

http://www.bto.org/volunteer-surveys/birdtrack/news-archive/2014-10/mass-raptor-poisoning

OpenYourEyes

A blog piece on Hen Harrier conservation, or the lack thereof, in Ireland:

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2015/01/23/guest-blog-hen-harriers-in-ireland/

Capercaillie

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/another-powerful-deterrent-sentence-in-spanish-raptor-poisoning-case/
Farmer in Spain poisons and kills 6 Spanish imperial eagles and gets a proper sentance.

Another case of raptor poisoning (from January 2012) has just concluded with an astonishing sentence. A farmer has been convicted of laying out nine poisoned baits and of poisoning six Spanish Imperial Eagles and a fox. His crimes were uncovered following a search of his land by specialist canine units trained to detect poisons. His sentence is as follows:

18 months imprisonment

AND

a three-year disqualification from hunting (post release)

AND

a fine of 360,000 Euros (£259,762.62) to be paid to the regional government for the estimated value of the six eagles.