discovered a family secret. should i tell?

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

I have a very religious grandmother, now in her 80s and suffering from early dementia.

I wanted to know when she married my late Grandad, because she never told us and seemed confused on dates. I looked up her details in the British Births, Deaths & Marriages records, because she had moved there in 1945, later met my late Grandad and had their children there, before the family returned home to Ireland in 1969.

It turns out my grandmother was unmarried when her first son was born in 1954. He was born in an area which was far from where she and her then partner (my Grandad) lived, which may indicate some sort of home for unwed mothers.

I also discovered that some years after marriage , my grandmother gave birth to a son whom I have never heard of. Presumably he died in infancy, as nobody ever mentioned this.

Here's my problem.

Do I tell my family the truth before my granny dies? Should I ever tell them?

She has obviously kept this a secret for good reason. I want to respect that. On the other hand it explains so much of her alienation from her deeply religious family. It also explains, in part, her apparent shame when my mother became pregnant before marriage. I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently .

Help!

the_syco

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

She has obviously kept this a secret for good reason. I want to respect that. On the other hand it explains so much of her alienation from her deeply religious family. It also explains, in part, her apparent shame when my mother became pregnant before marriage. I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently .

Help!

Deeply religious people can be right c**ts, so best not. As she is

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

suffering from early dementia.

I'd fear the c**ts would abandon her. Probably best off waiting until she has past away, and then "come across" this info whilst you're researching your family tree.

Deranged96

No No No No.
She's kept it a secret so long and it has obviously shaped her as a person.
If you tell before she dies you'll cause her distress and if you tell afterwards you'll be tarring her memory
No.No.No.No.
Imagine how you would feel if what you perceived as a big shameful secret was made common knowledge to your family?

AzureRaven

I understand your view but I would personally keep it to myself or wait until her passing. Some things are better left unsaid.

Starrseed

100% NO. If she wanted any of you to know I'm sure in her 80 odd years she would have told someone. Respect her wishes especially in her condition.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

thanks for the advice.

the_syco wrote: »

I'd fear the c**ts would abandon her. Probably best off waiting until she has past away, and then "come across" this info whilst you're researching your family tree.

the religious family members who would think less of her are her surviving siblings. They stopped speaking to her years ago. i think this secret is the reason. my parents/ uncles/ aunts always blamed my granny for cutting herself off from her family.

but my own folks and aunts and uncles are not very religious. they could feel much more sympathetic toward her if they knew... I do see the reasons not to tell though. at this moment i have no plans to tell. just need to hear opinions outside my own head!

Banjo String

All I get from the OP is that their uncle is a Bastard.

JillyQ

Op dont say a word it is not your secret to tell.

FunLover18

The big secret being that your father/uncle is a bastard?

In this day and age is this really such a big deal?

You say you're grandmother is very religious hence she it secret but did she pass it on to her children?

Dapics

Quite odd how she's deeply religious given the context of the question tbh.

takamichinoku

Some of this stuff may have been known by a few of them and just never mentioned. Ireland was really weird.
My mam mentioned her mam had 3 stillborn babies and a baby that died very very young before she was born out of the blue a year or so ago, she apparently only found out all of this by stumbling across receipts for their death arrangements which were very carefully hidden away in their home.


How's the relationship between your mam and her mam? I kind of think your mam deserves to know the full story of why her mam was how she was if it has caused her trouble through life ...but the amount of **** that'd come from it being told before she passes could easily completely outweigh that.
Absolutely no need to respect her wishes in regards to something like this after she dies imo. The whole not telling before could land a lot of trouble on yourself in a variety of ways.


Are the lower generations of the family religious or were you referring to her generation and the one above?

Pwindedd

+1 on the not telling. It's not really your secret to tell. There's nothing shameful in it now, but I think you should respect her privacy. I would look on it as an insight into her early life and a private memory that only you know, you can honour her that way.

the_syco

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

They stopped speaking to her years ago. i think this secret is the reason.

Any chance one of them is the bastard uncle?

FloatingVoter

No. This is her secret. She didn't tell you herself. It isn't your secret to keep. The only lesson you'll learn from this is that "Who do You Think You Are" involves long dead people for a very good reason. When your own grandchildren come looking for interesting family history, feel free to tell the tale. By then, it will be history.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

FunLover18 wrote: »

The big secret being that your father/uncle is a bastard?

In this day and age does it this really such a big deal?

not to me, my uncles or my aunts or my mother it isn't. but for her.

My first reaction was to shrug, before I thought the mental turmoil she must have gone through as a religious young woman away from her family believing (probably still believing) she committed a serious, mortal sin.

takamichinoku wrote: »

How's the relationship between your mam and her mam? I kind of think your mam deserves to know the full story of why her mam was how she was if it has caused her trouble through life ...but the amount of **** that'd come from it being told before she passes could easily completely outweigh that.

we're very close. I could be depriving her of a better relationship with her own mother.

my mother is still bitter about my granny's behaviour when my mother got pregnant before marriage. It must have brought back awful memories for my grandmother at the time, maybe she wasnt just being a religious fanatic.

takamichinoku wrote: »

Are the lower generations of the family religious or were you referring to her generation and the one above?

yes only my granny's siblings are religious. they speak to us a bit, but not her. i'm talking hardline catholicism.

Angry_Mammarys

Nope don't tell, nothing good would come of it, and as said above, it is not your secret to tell, Some things are really best off not said.

takamichinoku

Okay, just saw the second post, I don't see an issue at all with it being told a while after she passes at all, tbh. Just pretend you only found out about it then. It would just give context to why she was so difficult, could cause a bit of trouble but I do think your mam's family deserve to know what kind of things motivated how they were raised and so on.

In regards to telling before... it really depends on how strained their relationship is. I'd be thinking more about your mam than her mam, and what you feel benefits her most because, being very callous, your gran's on the way out and it sounds like they're not going to remember her very fondly regardless.


Is there another person you could talk to about it who knows your mam and her siblings and keep it quiet?




Edit: In a situation like this, if it seems like it could really help her children and their relationship, I'd basically immediately discuss it with my siblings because I know I could trust them to not let it go up the chain to the higher generations. In the event neither of them heard anything, I'd try and gauge my dad to see if he knew anything, then I'd move onto whoever from your mams family seems like they wouldn't view the events as a shameful thing that needs to be kept quiet (cos outside of revealing to your gran that it's known, it's not remotely shameful), like. and it reads like her children wouldn't think of it as shameful either so I can't see why they'd let their children think she's a nut with no valid reasoning behind it if they already do know of it.
I am a meddlesome ****er though, and I wouldn't do it before she died in most circumstances.

Lenin Skynard

Everyone who's older than you in the family surely already knows it but they don't talk about it. That should be answer enough for you.

Sir Arthur Daley

I wouldn't publicise it on Facebook, just do that blog thing.

pablo128

This is your curiousity getting the better of you. Your Gran is very old with dementia you say. Her last days would not improve a great deal if this news came out, and that's taking into account everyone involved realising they may have been wrong all these years and trying to make amends. Which is an unlikely scenario.
Deeply religious people will convince themselves they were right all these years. And for all you know, you are possibly one of the few people involved who is in the dark about it. Maybe they all know a hell of a lot more than they are letting on. You could be just opening old wounds.

Leave it.

Dowl88

Im ur father

Awkward Badger

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently

You're the only one here who knows them so if you think this is likely then you should tell them. If you think its not likely and they will view here in a more negative way then don't.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

takamichinoku wrote: »

In regards to telling before... it really depends on how strained their relationship is. I'd be thinking more about your mam than her mam, and what you feel benefits her most because, being very callous, your gran's on the way out and it sounds like they're not going to remember her very fondly regardless.

that's exactly it. Her dementia itself is a ticking clock. Their relationship is polite but tense. There's going to come a point in a year or more, where reconciliation is too late.

takamichinoku wrote: »

Is there another person you could talk to about it who knows your mam and her siblings and keep it quiet?

All my friends know my granny well; she lives adjacent to us. I suppose she's seen as a bit of a cranky, religious diehard. I'm afraid they'd think it funny.

pablo128 wrote: »

This is your curiousity getting the better of you. Your Gran is very old with dementia you say. Her last days would not improve a great deal if this news came out, and that's taking into account everyone involved realising they may have been wrong all these years and trying to make amends. Which is an unlikely scenario.
Deeply religious people will convince themselves they were right all these years. And for all you know, you are possibly one of the few people involved who is in the dark about it. Maybe they all know a hell of a lot more than they are letting on. You could be just opening old wounds.

I hadn't considered that. But I do think my mother doesn't know. She was trying to help me find my granny's wedding date when i started researching.

With so many family history records online today, I'm sure there must be loads of families in similar situations. All families have skeletons. This is one I wish I hadn't dug up.

FunLover18

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

not to me, my uncles or my aunts or my mother it isn't. but for her.

My first reaction was to shrug, before I thought the mental turmoil she must have gone through as a religious young woman away from her family believing (probably still believing) she committed a serious, mortal sin.

I'd hold onto it. Those who care already know and have shunned her and if it's not a big deal to your uncles and aunts then there's no point in telling them. You can't undo the turmoil she went through, so just ignore it. If it comes up after she's dead just act casual about it, no biggie

takamichinoku

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

that's exactly it. Her dementia itself is a ticking clock. Their relationship is polite but tense. There's going to come a point in a year or more, where reconciliation is too late.

All my friends know my granny well; she lives adjacent to us. I suppose she's seen as a bit of a cranky, religious diehard. I'm afraid they'd think it funny.

I'd say reconcilliation is pretty unlikely at this stage, it'd be more about your mam being able to spend time with her mam while being able to be more accepting of her flaws, surely? They might be at a stage somewhat like that regardless.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

takamichinoku wrote: »

I'd say reconcilliation is pretty unlikely at this stage, it'd be more about your mam being able to spend time with her mam while being able to be more accepting of her flaws, surely? They might be at a stage somewhat like that regardless.

yeah, my mum's got a big heart. she probably accepts my granny's character regardless of the reasons. But this isn't just for the benefit of my grandmother. I want my mother to feel less guilty about upsetting everyone with her first pregnancy, to know there is a back-story, if it helps.

Anyway maybe this can all wait after all.

Wish i hadnt started this thread before bed, i'll never sleep!

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Sir Arthur Daley

Will never log off has logged off

takamichinoku

It's almost all about what benefits your mother, imo, she's the one who'll (hopefully) be around for decades to come. Doubt it'd be any kind of magical solution though, certainly not going to get anything out of her mam by bringing it up to her, like, it'd have to be an internal kind of thing. Leaving it while she's alive definitely seems more likely to be the right answer, not knowing anything about the people involved.

conorh91

If she reacted very badly to your mother getting pregnant, doesn't that make her hypocritical? Are you sure your mother won't be very angry at her mother's apparent hypocrisy?

I don't understand how your grandmother giving birth to a baby out of wedlock should have made her more angry toward your mother. It makes her more of a hypocrite and, surely also, less Christian.

Don't tell. It doesn't paint your grandmother in a good light.

Ronin247

Tell it. It would be great craic to see the miserable old biddy explain that one after being horrible to your mother.

It is quite often the way with these uber religious types.... do as I say, not as I do

UCDVet

When I was little, I read a book called, 'Everyone Poops'. Doesn't mean we want the world to know when we're pooping. Doesn't mean we want people to see us while we do it.

Everyone has *a lot* of 'secrets'. Most of them aren't even unusual or unexpected. Infidelity is a common thing. Sex out of wedlock is a common thing. Religious people who commit sin....common thing too.

Unless you've got a good reason for why, I don't see any point in sharing it.

Cee-Jay-Cee

It's not your secret to tell. Mind your own bloody business and not others.

Tail Docker

I was hoping that she'd been a famous bank-robber or rode Ghandi tbh.

Doesn't strike me as much of a "family secret". More of a vaguely interesting bit of someones history.

Fat Christy

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

I have a very religious grandmother, now in her 80s and suffering from early dementia.

I wanted to know when she married my late Grandad, because she never told us and seemed confused on dates. I looked up her details in the British Births, Deaths & Marriages records, because she had moved there in 1945, later met my late Grandad and had their children there, before the family returned home to Ireland in 1969.

It turns out my grandmother was unmarried when her first son was born in 1954. He was born in an area which was far from where she and her then partner (my Grandad) lived, which may indicate some sort of home for unwed mothers.

I also discovered that some years after marriage , my grandmother gave birth to a son whom I have never heard of. Presumably he died in infancy, as nobody ever mentioned this.

Here's my problem.

Do I tell my family the truth before my granny dies? Should I ever tell them?

She has obviously kept this a secret for good reason. I want to respect that. On the other hand it explains so much of her alienation from her deeply religious family. It also explains, in part, her apparent shame when my mother became pregnant before marriage. I think my family see her as a very difficult woman, but if they knew the truth of what she experienced they might see her differently .

Help!

For the sake of your grandmother, please do not say anything until she passes away. If she wanted the family to know, she would have said something. She probably feels guilt and shame over what happened. As a non religious person, sometimes it's hard to comprehend that. I mean no one nowadays cares if people have kids outside marriage but in them days they did. In my opinion, I would let sleeping dogs lie until she has passed away at least.

I know you feel like you're between a rock and a hard place. Her life experiences wouldn't necessarily have made her a difficult woman. I was raised by a lady with a deeply disturbing past whose mother was a religious nut and she raised me lovingly and never imposed religion on me. She was probably the most liberal and open-minded person I have ever met. The information that you have unearthed doesn't automatically justify your grandmothers 'difficult' persona, as harsh as that may sound.

Pablodreamsofnew

What are you doing sniffing around your grandmas past? Don't you wait for them to die before you do that?

I think it would be really unfair to question her in her 'mental state' that she is in.

What kind of person are you?!

And what has religion got to do with it?

Unknown Soldier

Go on the internet.

TELL EVERYONE!.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

MrsYelnekoff wrote: »

What are you doing sniffing around your grandmas past? Don't you wait for them to die before you do that?

I think it would be really unfair to question her in her 'mental state' that she is in.

What kind of person are you?!

And what has religion got to do with it?

My Uncle turns 60 in November. We figured this year might be my grandparents 60th wedding anniversary. We wanted to celebrate it with her but my grandmother was having trouble remembering the date. We assumed it was the dementia. I dont think i'm a bad person for trying to do the right thing.

Skerries

maybe talk to your mother about it and let her decide whether to have it discussed within the family

lulu1

Let sleeping dogs lay whats the point raking up something that happened 60 years ago its over and done with

Supergurrier

Turn the other cheek...

BBDBB

its not your secret to tell

if others in your family are curious then they can do the same research you did and find out the truth the same way you did

let the old woman keep her dignity

diomed

Unknown Soldier wrote: »

Go on the internet.
TELL EVERYONE!.

Yeah, you don't come across a nugget of gossip like this every day. Tell everyone, but be sure to tell them to keep it a secret.

hatrickpatrick

Religious issues in families are basically tinder boxes waiting to go off. Every chance they won't start an inferno, but an equal chance that they will.
Is it a risk you're willing to take, considering especially that you will bear a huge amount of the fallout?

Doc

Why don't you talk to her about it? Shes not dead yet.

She's the only one that can give you the true context of what happened you seem to be basing quite a lot of your opinion on this on speculation rather than simply asking the woman.

If it was me I'd never say a word about it unless I had the full story.

pablo128

My missus's aunt is in her 70's. The problem is, when she met her husband, she told her husband she was 10 years younger. And is still under the illusion he thinks that. He knows how old she is. He's told us. Their daughters know about it too.
She even refused to have a '60th'. She made up some tale about going on holiday. It's kind of a running joke in her family.
What's to be gained from letting her know that she's fooling no-one? Absolutely nothing. The same with your gran. I don't think you're a bad person for wanting to share the secret. You just need to think of the bigger picture.

feargale

Dapics wrote: »

Quite odd how she's deeply religious given the context of the question tbh.

?

takamichinoku

Don't think the point would necessarily be in telling her anything, but other members could need some blanks filled in to be able to accept that there were reasons beyond just being some super religious sort that made her do unagreeable things, that the fact her siblings cut her off or whatever was possible more a sign of them being awful than her being a nut.

Not knowing the full situation, it's absolutely impossible to say they must tell at some point, fully agree with that. Don't see there being much issue in info emerging after she's passed though and there could be some circumstances where it would be beneficial to their mam or whatever. Don't think the OP seems like they'd toss out the info on a whim anyways, they likely wouldn't have resorted to an internet forum to talk about it if they wanted to do that.

WILL NEVER LOG OFF

Doc wrote: »

Why don't you talk to her about it? Shes not dead yet.

She's the only one that can give you the true context of what happened you seem to be basing quite a lot of your opinion on this on speculation rather than simply asking the woman.

If it was me I'd never say a word about it unless I had the full story.

the early stages of dementia are already making her paranoid. she sometimes thinks all her children are against her, crazy, silly things. She still gets on fine with me and my siblings so i'd like her to keep that.

A few people have pointed out how small an issue this is. I cant ignore that and cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it.

i know this idea is not what most people suggested but imagine this was your granny. if she did some tiny, irrelevant mistake and her parents and siblings lashed out at her for it, i think most people wouldn't see her unfounded shame as a good reason to stay quiet. Even if only for the reason her siblings cant be allowed act the 'bigger men' at her funeral, or themselves get off the hook, if this is the reason they stopped talking, or if they abandoned her.

thanks again for the advice guys but i think some family members, at least, have a right to be told.

takamichinoku

WILL NEVER LOG OFF wrote: »

cant ignore the benefits my granny would get from someone finally knowing her past and for the first time in her life, loving her more for it.

What exactly are the benefits she'd get there? if it's others loving her more, that'd require her to be willing to accept that love too and she's got it pretty hardwired into her that it's a bad thing so I can't imagine she would, she'd just be ashamed. Her siblings aren't going to be swayed by a few relatives they're not that in touch with thinking they're ****s too.

You're reasoning there isn't great at all.

_Whimsical_

takamichinoku wrote: »

What exactly are the benefits she'd get there? if it's others loving her more, that'd require her to be willing to accept that love too and she's got it pretty hardwired into her that it's a bad thing so I can't imagine she would, she'd just be ashamed. Her siblings aren't going to be swayed by a few relatives they're not that in touch with thinking they're ****s too.

You're reasoning there isn't great at all.

I don't agree at all with you, I think the OPs reasoning is completely sound. He/she feels their granny was misunderstood by her children in them feeling that she was responsible for the rift with her siblings and that knowing this fact might change that. Also the granny would never need to know that they know, confronting her at that stage of her life would be cruel but they might be able to be kinder to her and more compassionate in their general dealings with her.

It's a really difficult decision. My first instinct was no don't do it because she had kept it for so long but I also see your point. I think when someone is in the grips of a horrible condition like this and at the end of a good life it is understandable to want them to have full acceptance and to be met with full compassion for all the pain they've ever suffered , it probably feels like it might be some small justice for her that she be understood.

I think if I was you if tell the wisest of your mum's kids, the most discrete one that people are likely to trust and let them decide what to do. I say that because you don't really know how news like this night affect a family dynamic. The circumstances of your uncles birth might have affected his relationship with your granny. Knowing the truth might be the missing piece of the puzzle for him that explains why there was tension between them or why he was a favourite etc. You just never know if news like that will have unexpected reverberations for someone in your family. One of her kids might be better able to judge how everyone would react.

I think you sound like you feel you're denying your granny a chance for something important and positive. It might weigh on your conscience a long time if you do nothing. I say ignore people on the internet, myself included, and go with your own gut. You're the one that has to live with the fallout.