Rejection from Family

Gai

My gay sister held her civil partnership this year in the middle of my daughter (her god-daughter's) leaving cert.

It was such a shame. Because she is not that interested in kids in general or in family life, which she seems to regard as a bit boring and uncool (probably right too, but we parents - broke and timebound most of the time - don't have a lot of choice!!), she missed a real chance to hold an inclusive ceremony where nobody felt left out, and where my daughter could have brought along friends etc., and which we as a family could have celebrated together. In fact my daughter had to miss the ceremony but at least got to some of the party, though then had to leave as she had exam next day. I felt that my sister was making me choose between her and my daughter. I know she doesn't see how hurtful it was. Not only to me, but especially to her god daughter.

Telling her mates at school that her godmother was holding her wedding in the middle of her exams caused more than a little surprise. The (Catholic) school had just celebrated a teacher's gay partnership, with lots of the students bringing in presents etc. The girls would have been really excited about the prospect of their friend's godmother having one.

My sister didn't ask any of her family to be involved in the ceremony either. I would love to have been asked to be her witness as she was my bridesmaid. It didn't seem to be a consideration. Should I have said it? I think I have been walking on eggshells around her for so long I would not have chanced it.

We (my husband, kids and me, and my brother and his family) would love her to be a bigger part of our life but she rejects us and, I always feel, looks down on us. The above is just one example of her rejection. And I would love to be invited to events in her social life but that does not ever seem to be a possibility.

I am not sure that the gay community realises how much it excludes others and makes people feel unwelcome.

Anyway, my point is, communities need to integrate, and can only do so through individuals making an effort to compromise and make space to get to know each other.

Telling Israel and Gaza to accept each other's position has not worked - they need to talk and listen and empathise. The LGBT community could learn a lot from watching that situation.

baby and crumble

Gai wrote: »

My gay sister held her civil partnership this year in the middle of my daughter (her god-daughter's) leaving cert.

It was such a shame. Because she is not that interested in kids in general or in family life, which she seems to regard as a bit boring and uncool (probably right too, but we parents - broke and timebound most of the time - don't have a lot of choice!!), she missed a real chance to hold an inclusive ceremony where nobody felt left out, and where my daughter could have brought along friends etc., and which we as a family could have celebrated together. In fact my daughter had to miss the ceremony but at least got to some of the party, though then had to leave as she had exam next day. I felt that my sister was making me choose between her and my daughter. I know she doesn't see how hurtful it was. Not only to me, but especially to her god daughter.

Telling her mates at school that her godmother was holding her wedding in the middle of her exams caused more than a little surprise. The (Catholic) school had just celebrated a teacher's gay partnership, with lots of the students bringing in presents etc. The girls would have been really excited about the prospect of their friend's godmother having one.

My sister didn't ask any of her family to be involved in the ceremony either. I would love to have been asked to be her witness as she was my bridesmaid. It didn't seem to be a consideration. Should I have said it? I think I have been walking on eggshells around her for so long I would not have chanced it.

We (my husband, kids and me, and my brother and his family) would love her to be a bigger part of our life but she rejects us and, I always feel, looks down on us. The above is just one example of her rejection. And I would love to be invited to events in her social life but that does not ever seem to be a possibility.

I am not sure that the gay community realises how much it excludes others and makes people feel unwelcome.

Anyway, my point is, communities need to integrate, and can only do so through individuals making an effort to compromise and make space to get to know each other.

Telling Israel and Gaza to accept each other's position has not worked - they need to talk and listen and empathise. The LGBT community could learn a lot from watching that situation.

Firstly, I you've dragged up a decade old thread for no real reason I can see. But apart from that, don't tar the entire LGBT community because of your sister. There are lots of reasons that a ceremony would be held when it was- that's her and her partners decision. I think it's cool that you want to be included in the day, but you don't get to demand that. Maybe your sister just wanted to include her friends. When I get hitched, none of my family will be standing with me, although they will of course be invited. Why? Because we're not close enough to do that. That's not to say I hate them, I love them dearly. But this will be a day for me and my partner, and any family trying to muscle in will, frankly, get short shrift.

And please, please please, don't compare Israel and Gaza with the LGBTQ community working whatever it is out with the straight community. It's offensive and awful on so many levels.

Annasopra

I understand that you feel hurt and upset.

Thats fine

I dont understand why you feel that all LGBTQ people are exclusionary.

I dont understand the comparison to Israel.

Aard

Gai wrote: »

I am not sure that the gay community realises how much it excludes others and makes people feel unwelcome.

On behalf of The Gay Community, I'm sooooo sooooo sorrrrry.

Deranged96

Homosexuality only affects a person's choice in sexual and romantic partners- nothing else.
If your sister is self-obsessed and is apathetic to you and yours, it has to do with her personality not her sexuality.
Not an LGBT problem.

Ash885

This has little to do with community and more what a woman wanted for her own special day. Heaven forbid (excuse the pun) she got what she wanted.

Maybe you need to examine your relationship with her and exmaine why you might feel she's a big part in your life, but you aren't in hers. Again, nothing to do with being gay.

eviltwin

This has got nothing to do with LGBT, its a wedding issue. There have been plenty of straight couples who got married and didn't plan it around the daily going ons of their nearest and dearest. That is just how it is. Maybe your sis just wanted a private day without family there?

Ten of Swords

The crux of the problem appears to be that your sister decided to have her wedding on a day that was inconvenient for your daughter?

Wow, what a bitch :rolleyes:

Cantremember

Ten of Swords wrote: »

The crux of the problem appears to be that your sister decided to have her wedding on a day that was inconvenient for your daughter?

Wow, what a bitch :rolleyes:

Nail on head.

Annasopra

Folks

Just a gentle warning for all.

Theres no need to be snappy at the OP. Its perfectly easy to make a point politely.

floggg

Gai wrote: »

My gay sister held her civil partnership this year in the middle of my daughter (her god-daughter's) leaving cert.

It was such a shame. Because she is not that interested in kids in general or in family life, which she seems to regard as a bit boring and uncool (probably right too, but we parents - broke and timebound most of the time - don't have a lot of choice!!), she missed a real chance to hold an inclusive ceremony where nobody felt left out, and where my daughter could have brought along friends etc., and which we as a family could have celebrated together. In fact my daughter had to miss the ceremony but at least got to some of the party, though then had to leave as she had exam next day. I felt that my sister was making me choose between her and my daughter. I know she doesn't see how hurtful it was. Not only to me, but especially to her god daughter.

Telling her mates at school that her godmother was holding her wedding in the middle of her exams caused more than a little surprise. The (Catholic) school had just celebrated a teacher's gay partnership, with lots of the students bringing in presents etc. The girls would have been really excited about the prospect of their friend's godmother having one.

My sister didn't ask any of her family to be involved in the ceremony either. I would love to have been asked to be her witness as she was my bridesmaid. It didn't seem to be a consideration. Should I have said it? I think I have been walking on eggshells around her for so long I would not have chanced it.

We (my husband, kids and me, and my brother and his family) would love her to be a bigger part of our life but she rejects us and, I always feel, looks down on us. The above is just one example of her rejection. And I would love to be invited to events in her social life but that does not ever seem to be a possibility.

I am not sure that the gay community realises how much it excludes others and makes people feel unwelcome.

Anyway, my point is, communities need to integrate, and can only do so through individuals making an effort to compromise and make space to get to know each other.

Telling Israel and Gaza to accept each other's position has not worked - they need to talk and listen and empathise. The LGBT community could learn a lot from watching that situation.

Em, what the ****?

It certainly seems your sister is rather self absorbed, selfish and has insufficient regard for your family but why the **** is that the "gay community's" fault?

Maybe, it's actually your sisters fault, all by her own. Do you blame straight people as a whole every time a straight friend or relative does something wrong?

I have no idea what her deal is, but with silly notions like that about gay people and their collective responsibility for her actions it's hard to have much sympathy for you.


Finally, i actually find it funny that you think it's the gay community that excludes.

One lesbian not adequately including her family in her (legally inferior to marriage) civil partnership is definitely worse than anything straight people have ever done to the gays :rolleyes:

I honestly started out feeling sympathy for you but by the end the outrageous sanctimonious and ignorant nonsense just pissed me right off


Edit - posted before I saw the mod warning but I stand by it. The post is offensive nonsense.

With attitudes like that about the "gay community", there may well be a reason your sister isn't as close to you as you might like. I can certainly See why she mightn't want to include you in social events if you are going to say such ignorant things (ignoring in the sense of lacking knowledge).

secman

Unusual choice of handle .... anyways you didn't mention how you and your brother and your sister got on historically growing up. How did ye react when your sister came out.... maybe some history there ?

Gai

Thanks everyone, and yes I think it's much more a personality issue. However i feel that anything I might feel about her is read by her as anti-gay. It's like a hook she hangs everything on.

So in relation to the sister issue, I dearly want to resolve it but she won't engage at any level. Won't answer texts, mails, calls. I'm glad to hear that this is an individual trait and not a gay thing!!

Re having family at the wedding - that is the whole point - she invited all the family, cousins etc, so it wasn't that she didn't want family - but I was really hurt that she didn't consider that her god-daughter was doing her leaving cert that day? Nor did she ask any of us to be witnesses etc. I think that asking her to be my child's godmother was a precious gift that she has rejected.

Re the gay community - I just feel I could be more a part of my sister's life if I felt I could go to social events that she goes to. gay bars, gaze film festival etc but I don't feel that I can, as they are so segregated, nor have I ever been invited by my sister. So there's a whole blind side to her life for me.

I find her uncompromising and so I wondered if that was a gay thing, ie is it the case that if you choose a partner who is so like yourself that there is less compromise required and so less willingness to compromise?

And apologies, I know it was a rant, but that is in the nature of on-line "venting".

I was very upset when I wrote that but my heart is hardening to be honest.

Thank you all for listening and for your feedback. I will think about it all.

And don't worry mods, I don't think anyone was rude, I can take it!!

btw the reference to Gaza reflected some strong emotion I was feeling about the need for people to speak and listen to each other, it was on my mind that day, did not mean to offend anyone at all. x

Gai

And re the "handle" - sorry but my middle name actually is Gabrielle, had not copped the freudian slip!!!!

Annasopra

Lgbt community events and spaces are not very segregated. Generally everyone regardless of sexuality would be able to goto the likes of pride, the george etc etc etc.

I see this as an issue between you and your sister more than anything else.

She doesnt invite you to events - thats not a gay thing - thats her
She is uncompromising. Thats not a gay thing. Thats her.

Caiseoipe19

It seems that you're not as central a part of her life right now as you'd like to be. She's a grown, married woman with a newly established family of her own. Siblings usually grow apart in adulthood. She has her own friends to socialise with. I don't socialise with any of my siblings. We have our own friends and wouldn't even think of inviting each other. I only know a few siblings that are also good friends and socialise together regularly.

Okay so none of the family got to be a witness at the wedding. Obviously the person she chose was closer to her. No big deal. Be happy that she has such close friends.

I think you're completely overreacting with timing of the wedding clashing with exams.
It was her and her partner's day. It's hard to keep everyone happy with arrangements. I really doubt they went out of their way to insult your family.

Gai

Thanks Joeytheparrot. x

Gai

Caiseoipe,

I guess we were raised to believe that family is important, and she is my only sister. I envy the relationships my friends have with their sisters. In my experience, siblings have less contact with each other when they marry but remain close and are supportive. To be fair, having children is usually the driver in this regard. But not always. Hetero friends with no kids take a huge interest in my children. It would break my heart to see either of my two daughters treat the other in this way. They are watching this situation pan out and equally can't imagine it, but who knows what will happen in the future. When my sister married a woman I thought I would be gaining another sister, but instead I suppose I feel somewhat replaced and cast aside.

The wedding thing was also about her lack of respect for her god daughter who was upset. Clearly she couldn't change her leaving cert exam! And like any teen would love to have been asked to be bridesmaid to her godmother.

It looks like I just have to accept that she is not interested in a relationship with me and has not got the respect or the manners to tell me why. I suspect that there is some projection going on in terms of our late mother's response to her coming out, which caused a lot of tension. Mum pretended to accept, while secretly conspiring against them, and I suppose my sister may not have faced that. I sometimes feel that my sister has cast me in the role of disapproving parent, where in fact I was the one who constantly tried to get our mother to understand and if not understand, to accept. She died before she could come to terms with it all, and of course that upsets me, as it meant that many of the last precious times with my mum were spent in fraught conversations about my sister. This upset of mine of course must be evident. I just wish we could talk about it all like two adults. She may see me as not supportive, when in fact she probably has no idea of the kind of support I gave her in terms of helping family come to terms with it, and what I may have lost as a result.

The spark that set off this silent rejection (four months now) was a spark that I suppose I hoped would have opened dialogue and allow us to move forward beyond the grief.

I came here to discuss this because I have trawled the net for any information or support for siblings of gay people when parents do not accept the situation and I find nothing. It all seems to be about how to mind yourself and your parents when you come out. Which is the most important, but does anyone know if there is anywhere I can go to sort out my thoughts?

When she came out I think I was so engrossed in protecting our mother and keeping the secret (often with difficulty) depending on who was allowed to know when or how, that I didn't process the coming out. And am still dealing with the grief.

Thank you all for listening. Of course I am hoping that she, or a friend of hers, may see this.

x

Milly33

I was just going to say reading OP that it sounds like your sister although this may seem harsh just wants to be left to her own devices. Reading it, it reminded me of my own brother we have tried and tried and not matter what we do there is always something we do wrong and we are always the blunt of his worries whatever they are. Now he isn't gay but just has his own issues but never wants to talk about them. I love him to bits but it came to the stage where you just have to let go and accept that at this time right now she does not consider ye as her top priority..Not because she doesn't love ye but maybe she just wants to think about herself for now which some people do and have every right to do but my advice would be let her at it, always be there within reason if she wants you but don't be holding onto any annoyance you have at her just let it go (now I feel like sining )

Regarding the gay and straight communities combining have to say I would kinda of agree it is very your either one or the other for social nights out and things like that, no one just mixes... Shame

Gai

Then again, maybe I should just stop wondering, stop hoping, and cut her off too?

Would I be labelled homophobic?

What do you all think?

Aard

Your main problem here seems to be that both you and your sister are terrible at communicating with each other. You "hope she sees" this theead? Why not just tell her yourself! Or at worst write a letter to communicate your feelings. Yous seem to have fallen into that traditional Irish trap of assuming that those around you.

Gai

AArd,

I have called and texted and she doesn't answer. I have mailed and apologised for anything and everything I may have ever done to hurt her. I am blocked from her twitter account although she has over 1000 followers. My brother has tried to mediate and tells me he thinks there is hope but not to contact her right now. His view is that she is continuing spoilt behaviour developed in childhood and does not realise that she is hurting me. I have suggested we arrange to meet with maybe a counsellor whenever she is ready and am waiting to hear from her. I fear that this will last and that one of us will eventually become ill and then it will be too late.

I also fear that she quite likes the idea of being rejected by a "homophobic" sister.

She may only now be acknowledging that her mother did not accept her sexuality and is taking it out on me. And I feel, now, that it would have been so much easier to just agree with our mother and pretend to go along with her.

Milly, maybe you are right, but I wonder why anyone would do this to their own sister. I would call it extreme passive aggression.

She will not like me putting this out here but this is desperation.

Anyway back to the main topic above - we need much better integration among our communities. I really do hope the equal marriage status is passed. I've seen huge change in terms of for example how schools are about all this in the last 20 years and while this may be happening in cities only, it will change nationally over time I am sure. But we need to start sharing our celebrations etc and not excluding.

Most people I know who are busy rearing kids and trying to pay the mortgage and the creche and hold down jobs etc don't even think about the gay agenda. Some of people are openly politically correct but don't discuss their thoughts openly, which in fact could open closed minds. I recently witnessed an openly racist act in the workplace that I know would not have happened towards a gay person. Sometimes societal rules have to change first, and social norms then follow.

Well I will stop pondering now, and get on with the day job.

Thank you all for your comments.

If anyone reading this recognises my sister, please ask her to contact me?

Gai

I just realised that in my initial post here I had written about her cutting off contact with me, but had taken it out. The fact is that four months ago following what I would have called a minor tiff, though also relating to how she treated one of my daughters, she completely cut off contact with me and refuses to engage at any level. I am hurt, confused, angry, fearful and everything else together.

Some of the posts above are also hurtful, but I guess I had not told you the full picture.

Clearly I have hurt her, but I feel tried and convicted without even knowing what the crime is supposed to have been.

It bothers me that I do read advice to LGBT people to accept if their families don't accept their sexuality that they should move on. I am afraid that she is applying this to our situation, which is not about her being gay, are indeed related to how she handled it within the family and in particular how it affected our mother, who was not even allowed tell our father, etc etc. It's as if she is using being gay as a crutch for other things. We have had other issues in the family but have managed to respect and accommodate each other's positions.

Enough already, but I am interested in your perspectives. Am I just being impossibly conservative?

Do you know, I think she is just a spoilt self centred person. Maybe I minded and protected her for too long!

Annasopra

Gai wrote: »

Then again, maybe I should just stop wondering, stop hoping, and cut her off too?

Would I be labelled homophobic?

What do you all think?

No. Unless you explicitly said

"I am disowning you because you are homophobic"

Annasopra

OP

I think this is more suited to Personal Issues forum to be honest.

Annasopra

Moved from lgbt to pi


PI charter is now to be followed

nozipcode

Gai wrote: »

Do you know, I think she is just a spoilt self centred person. Maybe I minded and protected her for too long!

Maybe she is, maybe she isn't. Sounds like you're a little volatile yourself with that sudden change of heart above ^^^.

Why don't you take your brother's advice, that she doesn't want to engage with you now but maybe again down the line you can have a positive relationship, instead of relying on advice from online strangers who have a fractured one-sides view to the situation (your side).

If you really want to get your point across to your sister write her a letter.

Nekarsulm

Gai, just a quick question, why are you chasing your sister? You get on with your brother and other family, so that's great. But we are all human, and all different. Not everyone gets on with each other, and especially not always with family members. Its not a competition, no-one is keeping score on how "Walton's" a family you all are. So you two don't get on, so be it. This apologising for all imagined or actual slights strikes me as strange. Either she wants contact with you or she doesn't. Simple as that. Its not in your power to make anyone like you. The Gay/Straight thing is a bit of a red herring, and likewise her choice of wedding date/guests/flower girls whatever. Just because your daughter's school teacher had a great civil partnership celebration or not has no relevance to your sisters life. Get over it. When /if she is ready, she will be in contact.

baby and crumble

Op, I'm going to give you my blunt opinion.

1) Your sister sounds like a spoiled brat. This isn't a gay thing. Trust me. You're right, she may enjoy being a victim, so if that's the case leave her off.

2) You are both in dire need of frank, honest communication. You may need to write her an old fashioned letter to start the ball rolling if she's really not engaging.

3) You may have to, at some point, call it a day. A relationship is only a relationship if both parties are committed. Just because you share parents it doesn't mean you're going to get on. I get on with my family but I don't see them all the time, nor will they be witnesses, etc at my wedding. Why? Because I'd rather my friends be with me for that. It's a personal choice.

4) Related to my lat point above, on a personal level, family don't have an automatic right to inclusion in a wedding. Your goddaughter, while perhaps really wanting to, has no automatic claim to be a bridesmaid. I don't understand why people get so caught up in weddings and having to include family member they may not want to. My best friend got married a few years ago and she really wanted me to stand with her- but she got bullied into choosing a cousin she really wasn't close to, simply because "it's family".

5) There already is a lot of integration between gay & straight people. It's called life. There is nothing stopping you just going to Gaze, if there's a movie you want to see then go. Likewise Pride- there's hundred of straight supporters there. I know straight people sometimes don't understand why there are gay bars and all that- but even in today's society, it's a scary thing to try and ask a random girl in a bar out- at least in a gay bar you know it's more likely sea either gay or at least won't freak out and call you a dyke! But anyone can go there, just go!

I'm sorry that you obviously want a relationship with your sister and that it doesn't seem reciprocated, but maybe she's just spoiled and self-centred. It happens.

LegacyUser

Gai wrote: »

Caiseoipe,

I guess we were raised to believe that family is important, and she is my only sister.

Your only sister but in your first post you opened with 'my gay sister' which implied you either had a none gay sister or maybe your not as accepting of her as you like to think. I have family members and friends who are gay and I would never refer to them as 'my gay brother/aunt/friend'

You make the comment that her having her civil ceremony during your daughters leaving cert felt like her making you pick between you and your daughter....firstly I hate to break it to you but her wedding isn't about you and also why did you have to chose, you weren't sitting an exam and given she's sitting her leaving cert your daughter is old enough to look after herself while you were at the ceremony. Not everyone wants kids or even young adults at their weddings. My god mother got remarried a few years back, civil service on xmas eve which was a massive pain to a lot of people. We had to drive from the other side of the country and back home again on Xmas eve in awful weather and lots of family members with young kids just skipped it but that's what she wanted.

Gai wrote: »

I envy the relationships my friends have with their sisters. In my experience, siblings have less contact with each other when they marry but remain close and are supportive. To be fair, having children is usually the driver in this regard. But not always. Hetero friends with no kids take a huge interest in my children.

"hetero friends'...seriously? I've no kids and I have no interest in any of my friends kids, good for your friends taking an interest in your kids but there plenty of people both straight and gay who couldn't care less about other peoples kids.

Gai wrote: »

It would break my heart to see either of my two daughters treat the other in this way. They are watching this situation pan out and equally can't imagine it, but who knows what will happen in the future. When my sister married a woman I thought I would be gaining another sister, but instead I suppose I feel somewhat replaced and cast aside.

Your right who knows what will happen in the future so stop worrying about. My brother and I hated each other growing up. We wouldn't spend any time together as children and would fight all the time right up until I move out to start college. My parents didn't think we'd ever have any sort of relationship but you know what now as adults we get on great, we now live next door to each other and work in the same field and my parents hate spending time with the two of us as we bore them silly talking shop. People change, just because people are siblings does not mean there are any guarantees you will remain close or have the same relationship through out their lives. Your seem to have applied your view of what you wanted on your sister...you can't manufacture a relationship with someone and it sounds like you and your sister have little in common and that's nothing to with her being gay. Your two different people who've gone in different directions.

Gai wrote: »

The wedding thing was also about her lack of respect for her god daughter who was upset. Clearly she couldn't change her leaving cert exam! And like any teen would love to have been asked to be bridesmaid to her godmother.

My god mother has been married twice now, I wasn't asked to be involved in either wedding. It sucks for kids and teens but it was her wedding and her choice to have it the way she wanted.

Gai wrote: »

I just wish we could talk about it all like two adults. She may see me as not supportive, when in fact she probably has no idea of the kind of support I gave her in terms of helping family come to terms with it, and what I may have lost as a result.

Maybe that is true OP she isn't aware but reading the way you've written so many things here it doesn't sound like your all that aware of what your sister has gone through and are liking this idea of placing yourself as the mater whose very accepting because look her daughters school has a gay teacher. You talk about the gay community like this alien sect but have you actually gone to a gay bar or a pride march? There are plenty of organizations for the families of gay people so rather trawling the internet why not go out and actually talk to people

Gai wrote: »

When she came out I think I was so engrossed in protecting our mother and keeping the secret (often with difficulty) depending on who was allowed to know when or how, that I didn't process the coming out. And am still dealing with the grief.

You see this is were you loose me OP, you talk about how you were the one doing so much to support your sister yet at the same time taking here about protecting your mother and keeping the 'dirty secret' hidden....honestly I'm not surprised your sister has pulled away from you. You want this wonderful close sister relationship you imagine other people have yet admit you treated your sisters coming out as something to hide in order to protect your mother rather then standing up to your mother and being their publicly for your sister. Sounds like you've a lot to work personally yourself with your mothers passing before you try and rebuild a relationship with your sister. Consider taking to your GP for grief counseling.

sashafierce

This post has been deleted.

catonthewire

The issue here is centred around family...
I can totaly understand your upset and confusion as too why your sister is not involving you in her life, choices, decisions ect....
Why are you assuming this is due to her sexuality?

Could she be simply addressing past issues in family relationships?

At the moment, I am severing links with some family members, it is often difficult and at times I feel it would be easier to simply ignore them completely..
Talk to her on your own, don't dwell on the past , ie the fact she excluded you, simply try to engage with her without undue pressure...
As for the fact she chose to have a wedding that did not suit your timing, sorry, but she has a right to choose what pleases her...

Neyite

You seem very fixated on the fact that she is gay. I cant say that my siblings sex lives are anything that I've ever given much thought to, nor do I really want to. We have on occasion discussed one or two topics related, but they are just my siblings. Just like my gay cousins are just my cousins. And my gay friends are just my friends.

It feels like you decided it was a wedding, and tried to drag all wedding-y stuff into it. Its not. Its a civil partnership and a poor subsitute for the equal right to marriage that the gay community should have. So maybe to them, dressing up what is essentially a legal commitment ceremony in a parody of the very rights they are denied, seemed a bit ridiculous to them.

Or the may have been just like me - wanting a no frills ceremony without bridesmaids or favours or bouquets etc. Or maybe there is a heap of nieces on the other side of the family who would also have wanted to be a bridesmaid to their aunt and the diplomatic thing to do would have been to have none of them. Thing is, you dont know, because you didnt ask her and her partner.

You say you want to be included in her social life and that it would have been nice for your daughter to be able to tell her friends about being a bridesmaid for her cool gay auntie in a cool gay civil partnership. Maybe she doesnt want to be your postergirl for your acceptance of gay people though.

LegacyUser

Cant log in really posted an excellent opinion into your situation IMO. I think you are trying to play a victim card a little bit here OP, while yes maybe your sis isnt totally innocent, we only have YOUR side of the story, not hers. The way you paint her and your relationship seems really sour to me? Why is that? Why do you resent her so much?

Maybe she likes living her life how it is and nothing you can say or do will change her mind and she is totally in her rights to live how she wants. I have 3 brothers and tbh I thank god I never had a sister, myself and my brothers do our own thing and we never have any problems ever. We rarely see each other but we speak when we can. That suits us. I would never make issue with any of them if they didn't answer my calls or texts for a while, I would simply accept it and leave them to it. They would contact me when they were ready.

I think you are seriously over analyzing this whole thing with your sis and making it out to be a bigger issue than it is. So what if she doesn't answer your calls or texts. She probably has her own reason that she doesn't want to divulge with you - her prerogative! I think you need to take a step back here and just actually live your own life, stop worrying about hers and hopefully in the future the 2 of you will be ok with each other. You're totally forcing the issue and that's what's making it worse. Suggesting she come to counselling with you? Seriously? I think that's a strange thing to suggest. I cant really see anything wrong with your sisters behaviour other than she is different to you - that's all.

Ps.. dont be so dramatic about your daughter missing the wedding. FFS it's not like your sis did that in spite. Her wedding - her rules. Again looks to me like the victim card is being played with that issue. There will be things in life that happen that you dont like and you have to suck it up, pull up the big girl panties and carry on OP. That's life.

nozipcode

OP has gone v quiet. Me wonders if OP's sister got in touch and told her to STFU airing the families laundry in public.

Gai

Dear noname. You misread me.

Should I have said "my sister who happens to be gay" - if so, apologies. But it was pertinent to the post that she is gay.

Re your reference to supporting my sister. Yes, I was the one who constantly worked on getting our mum to understand and accept my sister's sexuality. It would have been a lot easier not to try.

And it was my sister who insisted it be secret. Only certain people were allowed know. My mum was not allowed to tell her husband. Or anyone. Mum told our brother and then was terrified that my sister would find out. It was my sister who had us all keep her secret. My daughter had a friend whose mum worked with my sister and couldn't understand why she couldn't tell her friend. So complicated! Not exactly helpful to integration or understanding for the next generation.

Does this resonate at all with anyone?

I know though that its difficult to come out. I have had two friends come out in the workplace, and sure everybody already knew anyway and were glad they came out so that all could be open and we could stop dancing on eggshells.

You seem like a cold person and lacking in empathy. I find your attitude to your godmother and your references to kids quite rude. All people have feelings, you know.

I referenced schools simply because that was what the original article here was about. I find recent media articles about difficulties gay teachers experience interesting simply because I don't think it is quite as important to others as they might think. Everyone has stuff in their lives. Illness, relationship breakdowns, financial problems, etc etc. So what if a teacher is gay?

If you don't have children and don't care about the ones in your life then I suppose I can't expect you to understand my perspective. And maybe people who are not into children have not had to learn to compromise as much.

Most little girls grow up thinking that their godmother regards them as somebody special and usually that is the case. So if you can't imagine how it felt for her to be totally excluded from a family celebration then I won't try to explain. My daughter has gotten over it anyway, she now is happy to have an alternative honorary godmother in one of my friends.

But your perspective is still useful for me and thank you for responding. It gives me an insight into the mind of someone who doesn't care about family and perhaps that is what I am dealing with here. I will give it some thought. Perhaps it really is too much to expect that my sister might care. I will have to think about that. Wish she would be brave enough to tell me though. But glad to hear that this may be more about her than about me.

As for marches, well I don't go on marches, but I have to say that would feel like a voyeur going to a gay pub, unless brought there by a gay person. Why? Because they are labelled gay pubs... other pubs are not labelled hetero pubs, but I do get the aspect of displays of affection etc. The more gay people go to unlabelled pubs and show their affection just like everyone else the better. I dont go to singles bars or night clubs either. Where I go people may or may not be gay, I only know if they choose to let me know.

If my sister behaves as she does because that is how she is, fine. Happy to hear it's not a gay thing.

nozipcode

Gai wrote: »

If my sister behaves as she does because that is how she is, fine. Happy to hear it's not a gay thing.

That comment gives great insight into what we're dealing with here

If you're only figuring out that 'its not a gay thing' then maybe your sister really didn't need you championing her sexuality to your mother or anyone else.

Milly33

People are just like this I swear I am reading all this from my brothers side of things..

He has said and done some nasty things and we never bring it up, he is the only person to. It is like he wants to have the drama of everyone hating him or judging him (which no one does this is in his head) or that the whole world is against him. But honestly I know you say why would someone hurt someone intentionally - they do for the reaction its like a drug or for the attention..

There are lots of links to it from split personality or depression or it could be anything, could be just down to spoilt rotten.. Just do not react to it, carry on your own life and be there is she needs you or wants you but other than that just leave it.. Words and actions can be very hurtful if you let them be and think too much about them so don't. I remember the day of their wedding we weren't even invited to the ceremony just the afters and when we got there the bride was all ohhh where were ye we invited ye, I was like no you didn't but not aloud..We just carried on and celebrated the big day like they wanted to

You seem to know what she is like and that she does like to be the centre of attention so don't give her the attention she wants and maybe one day she will realise what she lost with you and your family and she will come around..

Ambersky

On the subject of the OPs understanding of gay issues

I referenced schools simply because that was what the original article here was about. I find recent media articles about difficulties gay teachers experience interesting simply because I don't think it is quite as important to others as they might think. Everyone has stuff in their lives. Illness, relationship breakdowns, financial problems, etc etc. So what if a teacher is gay?

There is an actual threat to LGBT employees in religious-run institutions that comes from Section 37.1 of the Employment Equality Act. Dismissing the fact that this group are not protected by equality legislation by implying that teachers complaints are an expression of personal importance about which nobody cares, shows a real lack of understanding of one of the currently important legal LGBT issues i.e. the right not to be dismissed or treated unfavorably at work for the sole reason of your sexual orientation.
http://www.glen.ie/page.aspx?contentid=345



On the rest of the topic. OP I think you are trying very hard to make this about the relationship between the LGBT community and the Heterosexual community or what is sometimes called the "wider" community.
This sounds more to me like a personal family issue complicated in a way that only the individuals involved can understand.
However it is apparent there are HUGE boundary issues here. It looks like you have been told numerous times and in lots of ways to Back The F**k Up and you havent taken No for an answer. You keep going on and on analyzing your sister and you quite mind blowingly want to tell us all about it and work it all out, in public, on the internet.

The ONLY thing you can productively do is go away and work on your own issues. All this trying to figure your sister out, is only taking energy away from your own work and your own issues. Your sister probably has plenty to be working on but thats her life and maybe with the passage of time she will get back to you but thats up to her. Remember there is work to be done on..boundaries..try to work on learning what is.. her stuff/ your stuff......her space/ your space and gain a respect for those differences.

This is a link to an article on emotional boundaries which is something all of us usually have to work on.
The article comes from a site about domestic abuse and Im absolutely not implying anything there, its just that they happen to have a good article on emotional boundaries, figuring out why we have different roles and it explains what boundaries are in the first place. Have a look if you like there is lots of reading in it and it mightn't be your style but no harm having a look.
http://www.hiddenhurt.co.uk/emotional_boundaries.html

jdsk2006

Sorry now but just from reading your initial post (and iv not been bothered to read the replies), you sound like a self centred, judgemental person and i too would keep you at arms lenght as your sister does. Not intended to cause offence, i just think some inner reflection wouldn't go astray

Gai

Thanks everyone. and I will check the links.

jdsk2006, perhaps you're right though I don't see it that way. But I am listening.

Ambersky, thankfully it has been announced in the last month that that section is to be revoked. Up to us all to make sure it happens.

I'm going to close this off now, all the best, x.

fits

Gai wrote: »

My daughter has gotten over it anyway, she now is happy to have an alternative honorary godmother in one of my friends.

Did you really appoint another god mother to your 18 year old daughter over this? Wow!

MagicMarker

You sound highly self absorbed OP. At the end of the day it's up to your sister when, where and how she conducts the civil partnership. It's simply none of your business.

LegacyUser

Gai wrote: »

Dear noname. You misread me.

Should I have said "my sister who happens to be gay" - if so, apologies. But it was pertinent to the post that she is gay.

Re your reference to supporting my sister. Yes, I was the one who constantly worked on getting our mum to understand and accept my sister's sexuality. It would have been a lot easier not to try.

And it was my sister who insisted it be secret. Only certain people were allowed know. My mum was not allowed to tell her husband. Or anyone. Mum told our brother and then was terrified that my sister would find out. It was my sister who had us all keep her secret. My daughter had a friend whose mum worked with my sister and couldn't understand why she couldn't tell her friend. So complicated! Not exactly helpful to integration or understanding for the next generation.

Does this resonate at all with anyone?

I know though that its difficult to come out. I have had two friends come out in the workplace, and sure everybody already knew anyway and were glad they came out so that all could be open and we could stop dancing on eggshells.

You seem like a cold person and lacking in empathy. I find your attitude to your godmother and your references to kids quite rude. All people have feelings, you know.

I referenced schools simply because that was what the original article here was about. I find recent media articles about difficulties gay teachers experience interesting simply because I don't think it is quite as important to others as they might think. Everyone has stuff in their lives. Illness, relationship breakdowns, financial problems, etc etc. So what if a teacher is gay?

If you don't have children and don't care about the ones in your life then I suppose I can't expect you to understand my perspective. And maybe people who are not into children have not had to learn to compromise as much.

Most little girls grow up thinking that their godmother regards them as somebody special and usually that is the case. So if you can't imagine how it felt for her to be totally excluded from a family celebration then I won't try to explain. My daughter has gotten over it anyway, she now is happy to have an alternative honorary godmother in one of my friends.

But your perspective is still useful for me and thank you for responding. It gives me an insight into the mind of someone who doesn't care about family and perhaps that is what I am dealing with here. I will give it some thought. Perhaps it really is too much to expect that my sister might care. I will have to think about that. Wish she would be brave enough to tell me though. But glad to hear that this may be more about her than about me.

I don't think it's about you OP but I think you really really want it to be about you.

I actually have a very close relationship with my godmother but you've of course read my reply to you through your eyes and are not seeing it through other peoples at all. I never said I didn't have a close relationship with my god mother I said shed been married twice and I wasn't asked to be a involved in either wedding. I didn't sulk or take it as some sort of insult towards her relationship to me, I could at least understand that it was her choice and I wasn't automatically entitled to be a bridesmaid, flower girl, witness etc etc The first wedding was a big church affair but in order to not upset someone on the grooms (can't remember what the reason was after all these years) it was decided that only one of her sisters would be a bridesmaid and there would be no flower girls or anything (I was 7 and even at that age I could understand I wasn't being exculded) second wedding I was 19 and it was a civil service on Xmas eve, quick in and out, that's what both of them wanted so that's what they got.

Your sister could have a hundred reasons why they had their ceremony when they did, you seem to not understand that not everyone a lives revolve around kids and they could simple not have clicked they'd booked their date during the living cert, I certainly wouldn't think of that or summer holidays or anything when planning events as I don't have kids. Speaking of kids OP I mentioned my un interest in kids because of your statement that you have childless friends that are really interested in your kids and that's great for them but there are plenty of people out there that aren't interested in kids, it doesn't make them bay people or mean they aren't into family. I actually work with kids but I don't want kids of my own which surprises some as I am very good at my job and very good with the kids but I've no interest in listening to people who construct their whole lives around their kids. Plenty of my friends have kids and I'm happy to hear what they are doing but there is a huge difference between being kept up to date on what's going on and being inundated with nothing but kid talk.

The fact that you read my reply and came to conclusion that because I don't share your views I must not care about family speaks volumes OP. The fact you claim to have trawled the internet for information about gay people and their siblings yet haven't understood why people feel there is still a need for gay pubs or why there is still a need for gay pride marches, the fact you didn't understand why your sister wasn't comfortable to have her business spread all around out side of her control shows that you expect things to fit into boxes and when they don't it must because something is wrong with them.

homemadecider

OP, have you considered the fact that your sister would have set her wedding day way before the dates for the leaving cert were announced? Most people pick their date about a year in advance.

For the record, my sister had a May wedding and I was in the middle of final university exams. Bad timing, but nobody's fault and she certainly didn't (or couldn't have) done it on purpose. I did my exam in the morning, legged it to the wedding ceremony afterwards, stayed for dinner and then went home when everyone started dancing as I had another exam the next morning. There were no hard feelings!

December2012

You are being very dramatic.

It sounds like, for whatever reason, you do not have the relationship you have want with your sister.

The idealised version that you want to have sounds completely unrealistic. To me, you appear to be a person who needs to "fix" or "control" things.

You are hurt, I can see that, but you're being very sensitive and dramatic (how much of your daughters hurt was promoted by you, for example?)

Ease up, ease off and don't put so much emotion into this.

You do mention that you have not processed your mothers death. That may be a place to start.

Nekarsulm

"Most little girls grow up thinking that their godmother regards them as somebody special and usually that is the case. So if you can't imagine how it felt for her to be totally excluded from a family celebration then I won't try to explain. My daughter has gotten over it anyway, she now is happy to have an alternative honorary godmother in one of my friends."

Gai, your daughter was not totally excluded from your sisters wedding, did you not say in your original post that she went to the evening celebration? So presumably she has an invitation.
In my experience most children pass no remarks on God Parents once the Sweeties and birthday Presents stage passes, say age 12 or 13. 90% of God parents probably have forgot they are even cast in the role after a year or two.
You also mention that your daughter therefore didn't get a chance to involve her friends on the day. This is a major head wrecker for people organising weddings. A crowd of kids and teenagers that the organisers don't even know turning up uninvited. No wonder many weddings are now "kid free zones" and have this stated on the invite.
And finally, what purpose does it serve to appoint a friend to be honorary God Parent to your grown up daughter? your friend was silly to agree, and I hope you have not told your sister about it. It will hardly build any bridges between you. regards, Nec.

Lou.m

Plenty of people hold very small ceremonies gay and straight. It's their day not anyone else's.

Flippyfloppy

So you're grieving about your sisters sexuality and you appointed an honorary godmother.

What????!? First part is off the wall but look your grief is your grief...I don't know why you think her sexuality is yours to grieve for though?
Ok done a bit of rereading and read the OP version where grief was mentioned. In context I'm guessing you meant grief of your mother dying. I'm sorry for your loss, and you may let go of a lot of these issues if you seek grief Counselling.


And you appointed an honorary godmother. What lame kind of lessons are you teaching you daughter? If a relationship with someone is 'broken' then callously replace them with someone else?? Seemingly your daughter adores your sister and was looking forward to all the showing off with her friends at having such a cool aunt (quite sad values) yet she places one foot wrong and she's out the door.

It was her wedding day. A huge thing. And you made it all about you and taught your daughter to do the same. Frankly I'm not surprised at all that you weren't in the loop about the wedding. Most likely the happy couple took the most suitable available date with the registrar, that suited their lives,instead of checking with every blooming guest.

Ambersky

That law which exempts LGBT people in religious run institutions from full protection at work has been in place for the past 16 years since 1998 and before that homosexuality was illegal untill 1993.
So LGBT people had and have very real, not imaginary or made up out of an inflated sense of their own importance concerns about their working conditions for a very long time.
You were very dismissive of those concerns in a previous post and I took you up on it

Gai said
I referenced schools simply because that was what the original article here was about. I find recent media articles about difficulties gay teachers experience interesting simply because I don't think it is quite as important to others as they might think. Everyone has stuff in their lives. Illness, relationship breakdowns, financial problems, etc etc. So what if a teacher is gay?

In response you tell me

Gai said
Ambersky, thankfully it has been announced in the last month that that section is to be revoked. Up to us all to make sure it happens.

That sounds like more of the- I dont know what all the fuss is about attitude you expressed earlier- its not an apology, an expression of empathy or an acknowledgement of a lack of knowledge in the area.
Its very tricky because of course we do hope section 37.1 gets revoked this time.
That does however nicely jump over the empathy required for peoples current and past situations and the difficulty in adjustment people feel having been forced to lead double lives all their lives or any apology for your previous post.
I would like to think we will all help to revoke section 37.1 but it wont be helped by an attitude that suggests the problem is in the teachers sense of self importance, or the idea that there is no issue at all to contend with, especially as its being taken care of, so once again no problem.

Firewalkwithme

It was your sisters big day, not yours or your daughters. You are not the the centre of the universe and your attitude towards this is incredibly selfish. You can please some of the people some of the time but you can never please all of the people all the time.

I hope your sister enjoyed what should be the happiest day of her life and you did not spoil it for her before during or afterwards.

What you have said suggests that you have no consideration for anyone but yourself.

The stuff about LGBT and Israel / Gaza is baffling and not worth responding to.

The Personal Issues forum on Boards won't help you, you need professional help.