Vitamin D lamp for the winter - advice

ch750536

Does anyone have a UVB narrowband lamp & did they use it over the winter last year? I'm considering one to use from October onwards this year and any advice appreciated.

rubadub

I have a small UVB narrowband bulb, one for spot treating areas where I have bad skin (psoriasis).

Are you talking about using it as a general light? I have heard of UVB being used in day rooms in old folks homes for vitamin D.

Is this what you are talking about? have you any links about it?

Many are greatly overpriced due to the medical tag put on them. You can buy the exact same philips bulbs separately and stick them in general office lamps with the correct fitting and have the same result for a fraction of the price.

For bigger lights some buy bulbs and put them in a suitable sunbed or tanning panel device.

anamaria

ch750536 wrote: »

Does anyone have a UVB narrowband lamp & did they use it over the winter last year? I'm considering one to use from October onwards this year and any advice appreciated.

I have a 'lightbox' and it gets me through the winter and keeps SAD at bay. It's a brand called Lumie and the one I have is that Arabica model. It was worth every cent

anamaria

ch750536 wrote: »

Does anyone have a UVB narrowband lamp & did they use it over the winter last year? I'm considering one to use from October onwards this year and any advice appreciated.

I have a 'lightbox' and it gets me through the winter and keeps SAD at bay. It's a brand called Lumie and the one I have is that Arabica model. It was worth every cent

silverharp

I saw some good reviews for the one below but its not cheap at 300stg.


http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dermfix-3000-UV-B-Lamp-Vitamin/dp/B004NOPC9S

ch750536

Yep, seems the bulbs from philips are fine and you can make your own unit & use a timer.

I couldn't find guidelines on time needed though, so went with a D3 spray

rubadub

ch750536 wrote: »

I couldn't find guidelines on time needed though,

I found manuals for units using the same 9W as mine. Started out at 20seconds and am now up to 5mins in one place. There were different recommendations depending on skin type.

There is a real risk of sunburn, the bulbs are prescription only in the US. Someone in a thread on psoriarsis here got badly sunburned in hospital in Ireland where its done under supposed strict conditions.

I also eat tinned mackerel which is high in vitamin D as well as having omega 3. I never liked the smell of tinned fish but found one which is in teriyaki sauce which is nice.

Here is one manual.

http://www.beatacne.org/forms/dermalight80.pdf

silverharp

its an area Ive been reading up a bit and while hard to find a consensus (whats new) side issue to this is the point that if you shower with soap up to 48 hours after exposure to sun , the oils on your skin which are needed to make Vit D can be washed away. Apparently studies have been done with surfers in Hawaii and they measured low for Vit D even though sun creams etc might not have been used.

rubadub

silverharp wrote: »

the oils on your skin which are needed to make Vit D can be washed away.

Interesting, I never read this when researching UVB treatment for skin conditions.

I did see someone warning against swimming in pools with chlorine afterwards.

many go to the dead sea for the UVB and reckon its this and the high salt water which help combat skin conditions.

I wonder if using an oil based moisturiser might even help the skin oils to do their work.

I also read of a new sort of suncream which filters out "bad" rays while letting the narrowband UVB in.

silverharp

rubadub wrote: »

Interesting, I never read this when researching UVB treatment for skin conditions.

I did see someone warning against swimming in pools with chlorine afterwards.

many go to the dead sea for the UVB and reckon its this and the high salt water which help combat skin conditions.

I wonder if using an oil based moisturiser might even help the skin oils to do their work.

I also read of a new sort of suncream which filters out "bad" rays while letting the narrowband UVB in.

I did read something about using coconut oil if you had been in a pool but Im not a swimming pool person so havnt investigated too much. If there is a UVB sun cream that would be great. It would still come down to moderation though as the body only needs the 20 min so 3 hours of UVB rays would be risky too


here is the article discussing the oils on the skin

https://www.vitamindcouncil.org/blog/washing-away-vitamin-d/

Professor Binkley and his colleagues found that surfers and skate-boarders in Hawaii had levels around 30 ng/ml with the highest level being 60 ng/ml. Why would light-skinned sun-drenched outdoor sport enthusiasts in Hawaii have an average level of 30 ng/ml, while very dark-skinned hunter-gatherers in Africa have levels of 50 ng/ml?

Sunscreen is one possibility, but 40% of Binkley et al’s subjects reported never using sunscreen, and the rest were not obsessive about using it. Essentially, all of Binkley et als’ subjects had evidence of abundant sun-exposure, indicating that the author’s calculation that they obtained the equivalent of 11 hours of full-body sun exposure per week with no sunscreen was correct. If not sunscreen, then what could explain the difference between Hawaii and Africa? Genetics is a possibility, as about 40% of vitamin D levels are heritable, but if genetics was the answer, why would the highest levels be in subjects living on the equator, where sun can so easily do the job?

What about latitude? The Africans were at latitude 3 degrees while the “A’ala Park Board Shop” in Hawaii is at latitude 21 degrees. That may explain some of it, although the sun in Hawaii gets very high in the sky, even in March. Anyway, the hunter-gatherers in Africa regularly avoided activity during midday, planning their foraging and hunting trips in the morning or evening.

The only other possibility I can think of is an obscure paper from 1937, a paper that continues to be ignored. The authors obtained surface oils from young men, sebum. In the first experiment, they irradiated the oils and in a second experiment irradiated the young men. They collected the sebum and showed that irradiated sebum cured rickets in rats (showing effective treatment of rachitic rats was the only way of measuring vitamin D activity in 1937). The authors concluded, “The evidence presented in the two groups of experiments indicates that washing the human skin by the usual methods removes vitamin D and its precursors from the outer layer of the skin.”

Helmer AC, Jensen CH: Vitamin D precursors removed from the skin by washing. Studies Inst Divi Thomae 1937, 1:207-216.

Even more upsetting, they concluded, “There is definitive evidence that the secretions from the skin contains precursors of vitamin D, which after irradiation are to be reabsorbed by the body, and the removal of which tends to produce a dearth of the vitamin unless it be supplied in some other form.” I could not see evidence that they supported this statement with their research. What they showed was simple.

Humans make some vitamin D on the surface of their skin, which water washes off. How much humans make on the surface and how much inside the skin, no one knows. However, the vitamin D levels of the African tribesmen support (but do not prove) the proposition that humans living in a natural state make a significant proportion of vitamin D on the surface of their skin for later absorption. Assuming the African hunter-gatherers do not take showers twice a day that so many cosmetically brainwashed Americans do, then simple water, especially soapy water, routinely washes off oils containing vitamin D in modern humans. This means we must add soap and frequent showering to the list of things that explain why modern vitamin D levels continue to decline, decade after decade.

ch750536

Found this really interesting about UVA & UVB in sunblock. Not researched its authenticity yet though.

the world wonders

If you're worried about Vitamin D then it's easier, cheaper and safer to take a supplement instead of using a UV lamp.

mickman

re the whole skin cancer thing. People most at risk for this are white people living in high sun areas like florida and in particular australia.

Most australians should not really be living in oz as they are too white and the sun is just too strong and intense

stay away from sun beds / go out in direct sunlight even on holidays in morning and evening time , other than that, stay in the shade unless you are very tanned.

I am guilty of getting my fair share of sunburn over the years but i am much more informed now and visit my dermatologist once a year for peace of mind

Im not sure a lamp can give you proper vitamin D , better off going to the canaries for a week in december

rubadub

mickman wrote: »

Im not sure a lamp can give you proper vitamin D , better off going to the canaries for a week in december

The lamp does, it is by no means some snake oil scam. Various hospitals around the country have lamps for treating psoriasis.

The narrowband means it is only exposing you to the rays you need. If you go to the canaries you are getting exposed to all the other unwanted/unbeneficial UV radiation too (some may be beneficial but you get my point)

Nicotine is said to be beneficial to alzheimer's, taking pure nitcotine tablets would be simliar to the narrowband light rather than smoking cigarettes and suffering other ill effects along with the beneficial ones from the nicotine.

mickman

rubadub wrote: »

The lamp does, it is by no means some snake oil scam. Various hospitals around the country have lamps for treating psoriasis.

The narrowband means it is only exposing you to the rays you need. If you go to the canaries you are getting exposed to all the other unwanted/unbeneficial UV radiation too (some may be beneficial but you get my point)

Nicotine is said to be beneficial to alzheimer's, taking pure nitcotine tablets would be simliar to the narrowband light rather than smoking cigarettes and suffering other ill effects along with the beneficial ones from the nicotine.

there is nothing unwanted in small doses of sunshine. THis is the same debate as in someone asking should they take a vitamin c tablet or eat some oranges. THe natural wholesome way of getting what your body needs is always better so instead of sitting in front of a lamp, i would say take a long walk in some winter sunshine and eat eggs and fish

rubadub

mickman wrote: »

there is nothing unwanted in small doses of sunshine.

Why do you think the medical profession developed narrowband therapy? rather than sunlight or full spectrum light mimicking sunlight.

The recommendation is usually 20mins per day here. I expect in the canaries it is less as there is probably more UV radiation. In your week long recommendation how long do you suggest they sit out for?

mickman wrote: »

This is the same debate as in someone asking should they take a vitamin c tablet or eat some oranges.

I have 1000mg vitamin c tablets. That's equivalent to about 20 oranges. 1000mg is by no means an unusual daily dose, I expect many would be concerned about eating 20 oranges a day.

mickman wrote: »

i would say take a long walk in some winter sunshine

http://www.fsai.ie/faq/vitamin_d.html

Vitamin D is mainly produced in the body by exposure of the skin to sunlight. However, because of Ireland’s northerly latitude, in the months between November and March there is inadequate quality and quantity of sunlight to enable sufficient production of vitamin D by the body (the current recommended dietary daily amount of vitamin D is 5 µg). Even on sunny days in the winter, the sun’s rays are of the wrong type for the production of vitamin D. In addition, with more people working indoors and using sunscreen when outside, vitamin D from sunlight exposure has decreased.

I have heard it advised to only be out around noon in summer if possible, since although it might be blazing sun early in the morning its mostly unwanted UVA that you are exposed to.

mickman

rubadub wrote: »

Why do you think the medical profession developed narrowband therapy? rather than sunlight or full spectrum light mimicking sunlight.

The recommendation is usually 20mins per day here. I expect in the canaries it is less as there is probably more UV radiation. In your week long recommendation how long do you suggest they sit out for?


I have 1000mg vitamin c tablets. That's equivalent to about 20 oranges. 1000mg is by no means an unusual daily dose, I expect many would be concerned about eating 20 oranges a day.


http://www.fsai.ie/faq/vitamin_d.html

I have heard it advised to only be out around noon in summer if possible, since although it might be blazing sun early in the morning its mostly unwanted UVA that you are exposed to.

And you think our ancestors were eating 20 oranges a day ? Of course not so 1000mg a day of vitamin c is too much

The medical profession will develop whatever they need in order to keep you from doing things the natural way

niamh.foley

What about a CFL with Lumens of 6500K plus, if you make a Light Box ?

silverharp

mickman wrote: »

stay away from sun beds / go out in direct sunlight even on holidays in morning and evening time , other than that, stay in the shade unless you are very tanned.

this will not work , UVB rays only reach you in the midday sun, if your shadow is longer than yourself the UVB rays which help make Vit D get absorbed in the atmosphere.

silverharp

Another angle not specific to Vit D , but the following doctor studied the effects of UV rays excluding the Vit D effect and UVB rays.


Published on Jan 17, 2013


Our bodies get Vitamin D from the sun, but as dermatologist Richard Weller suggests, sunlight may confer another surprising benefit too. New research by his team shows that nitric oxide, a chemical transmitter stored in huge reserves in the skin, can be released by UV light, to great benefit for blood pressure and the cardiovascular system. What does it mean? Well, it might begin to explain why Scots get sick more than Australians ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lh9lDWPMWrM

jsd1004

The benefits of the sun and Vit D far out way the risks of using chemical based sunscreens. Just don't get burnt! Ridiculous that the cosmetics and medical areas are pushing the use of sunscreens with highly toxic ingredients like oxybenzone, especially on children.

niamh.foley

jsd1004 wrote: »

The benefits of the sun and Vit D far out way the risks of using chemical based sunscreens. Just don't get burnt! Ridiculous that the cosmetics and medical areas are pushing the use of sunscreens with highly toxic ingredients like oxybenzone, especially on children.

Well not alot of people know how to make there own Organic SunCream

And its More so the Cancer society pushing Skin Cancer adverts. its probably the only thing they are good at

Blacktie.

jsd1004 wrote: »

The benefits of the sun and Vit D far out way the risks of using chemical based sunscreens. Just don't get burnt! Ridiculous that the cosmetics and medical areas are pushing the use of sunscreens with highly toxic ingredients like oxybenzone, especially on children.

You realise everything is chemical based right?

ch750536

mickman wrote: »

there is nothing unwanted in small doses of sunshine. THis is the same debate as in someone asking should they take a vitamin c tablet or eat some oranges. THe natural wholesome way of getting what your body needs is always better so instead of sitting in front of a lamp, i would say take a long walk in some winter sunshine and eat eggs and fish

Winter sunshine produces no vitamin D here in Ireland. Even stark naked all day on a sunny day. Basically the sun has to pass 40 degrees ish before the production switch is turned to the ON position.

If you live in the mid-latitudes or high latitudes, you have little to no access to UV-B rays from some point in autumn to some point in spring. During these times, your body has to rely on its stores of vitamin D and/or vitamin D from foods and supplements.

Linkage

Unfortuantely if you believe you need 3000IU daily then you are left with little option in the winter but to supplement (or eat 75 eggs a day).