Hard sprints or long distance?

DublinArnie

Hey!

What would you people say is better to burn fat and try to retain as much muscle mass as possible? Fast 2km sprints, or long distance running? I'll be doing strength exercises throughout the week, I just want to burn off some excess fat. I heard that long distance usually ends up burning muscle mass, don't know if it's true.

Please enlighten me.

Alf Veedersane

What constitutes 'long distance' for a start?

Hanley

What's your food like? More importantly.

DublinArnie

I'd consider something more than 2km long distance, but I think it really depends on the pace you go. People who go long distance usually go slower than someone who is running 1km or what not. I'm asking if it's more efficient to run long distance with a good pace or a small distance with a fast pace.

My diet is pretty good I suppose. For example, I had fibre cereal today(almost a full bowl I suppose), OJ and two bananas. Today is usually my rest day, especially that I have a sore ankle.

Before I started doing some body weight exercises like two hours ago, I had a chocolate bar. Then I proceed to do press ups, abs, squats and some high intensity jumping jacks. Spent about a hour doing that, then I ate some chicken with potatoes and beans for protein.

Don't know what I will eat later, but today I'm resting so not planning to do anything any more, but I might go for a run later. Tomorrow is more serious training.

What do you guys think? I'm about 63kg and 5"8.

Alf Veedersane

You needn't worry about the running just yet anyway, by the looks of it. Your diet isn't 'pretty good' to be honest.

What is 'fibre cereal'?

Why the chocolate bar before doing the exercises?

MD1990

DublinArnie wrote: »

Hey!

What would you people say is better to burn fat and try to retain as much muscle mass as possible? Fast 2km sprints, or long distance running? I'll be doing strength exercises throughout the week, I just want to burn off some excess fat. I heard that long distance usually ends up burning muscle mass, don't know if it's true.

Please enlighten me.

Your speed endurance must be incredible:p. I would do sprints maybe something like 8x80m walk back recovery depends on what your general fitness is like.

Oryx

DublinArnie wrote: »

I'd consider something more than 2km long distance, but I think it really depends on the pace you go. People who go long distance usually go slower than someone who is running 1km or what not. I'm asking if it's more efficient to run long distance with a good pace or a small distance with a fast pace.

If you are just running 2k, I don't think you will need to worry about muscle wastage. It would be more of an issue if you were trying to maintain a high muscle mass while running a lot. For someone into running, a long run would be 25-30k.

My diet is pretty good I suppose. For example, I had fibre cereal today(almost a full bowl I suppose), OJ and two bananas. Today is usually my rest day, especially that I have a sore ankle.

Your diet is terrible. Orange juice is full of sugar, cereal is just carbs, bananas not the worst but youd be better off with eggs for breakfast. You mention your ankle is sore. Is this from running?

Before I started doing some body weight exercises like two hours ago, I had a chocolate bar. Then I proceed to do press ups, abs, squats and some high intensity jumping jacks. Spent about a hour doing that, then I ate some chicken with potatoes and beans for protein.

Chocolate is wasted calories, total nothing nutrition wise. So avoid it. Instead of saying about an hour, what sets and reps did you do of the above.

Don't know what I will eat later, but today I'm resting so not planning to do anything any more, but I might go for a run later. Tomorrow is more serious training.

What is the serious training? How long have you been doing this stuff?

Alf Veedersane

DublinArnie wrote: »

Today is usually my rest day, especially that I have a sore ankle.

Before I started doing some body weight exercises like two hours ago, I had a chocolate bar. Then I proceed to do press ups, abs, squats and some high intensity jumping jacks. Spent about a hour doing that, then I ate some chicken with potatoes and beans for protein.

Don't know what I will eat later, but today I'm resting so not planning to do anything any more, but I might go for a run later. Tomorrow is more serious training.

What do you guys think? I'm about 63kg and 5"8.

Also, in light of the first bit in bold, don't do the second bit in bold.

DublinArnie

The fruit and fibre cereal you can get at any shops, it seems good and the nutrition value looks good as well, but I'm no nutritionist.

I'm a 16 year old, so I don't know if I should drastically change my diet, as my body is still growing naturally. As for the quick workout I did today, it was:
-30 standard press ups
-10 diamond press ups
-60 standard abs
-1min no stop squats
-2min jumping jacks
-30 second break
*Repeat until one hour passes*

Now, my regular weekly training, I will explain it so you people can have a better idea. I do kick-boxing, so it's very cardio intensive in all of the classes.
- MONDAY; Two hours of kickboxing class, great sweat (will go into detail if you guys want.)
- WEDNESDAY; Two hours of cardio kickboxing, then a hour of strength and cross-fit style training (will go into detail if needed).
- THURSDAY; A hour of cardio kickboxing, and then a hour of sparring (which in my opinion, makes me sweat the most throughout the week.)
- FRIDAY; A hour of cardio kickboxing.
- SUNDAY; A hour of sparring.

I will go into more detail of the stuff we do if you want, but the instructors are great and I know them well. I have been doing this sort of training for seven years now.

Running schedule;
- Every day I do 5km, and every second day I TRY to do 12km (I got the sore ankle from doing 12km in two days in a row, just wanted to see how my body would react.)

I think only my diet needs fixing, as I think the stuff I do for my age is already enough to keep my body balanced. Appreciate you guys taking your time to sort me out, time to get educated in this stuff.

Oryx

Ok, so you are very active. You started this thread about running, what do you want to achieve from running? That will decide what kind of running you do, and how it fits in with your main activity - kickboxing. Training on an injured ankle is unwise. Doing two long runs back to back on legs that are not used to it, is also unwise. I think your main thing needs to be to learn to train smart. Now, I may have forgotten what it is like to be young and full of energy, but it sounds like you're awful close to doing too much here, particularly when you are talking of injuries you train through.

DublinArnie

Oryx wrote: »

Ok, so you are very active. You started this thread about running, what do you want to achieve from running? That will decide what kind of running you do, and how it fits in with your main activity - kickboxing. Training on an injured ankle is unwise. Doing two long runs back to back on legs that are not used to it, is also unwise. I think your main thing needs to be to learn to train smart. Now, I may have forgotten what it is like to be young and full of energy, but it sounds like you're awful close to doing too much here, particularly when you are talking of injuries you train through.

I got the sore ankle on Sunday(couldn't jump without feeling immense pain), and went through yesterday with it. Today it feels better (actually hardly feel it now, can run/jump with no pain) despite training with it and bearing the pain. Would there be any hidden injuries to this?

Yeah, I'm a bit all over the place. Need to organise more.

But, what is your opinion on this? Would if be better to run short and fast, or long and slow?

Oryx

DublinArnie wrote: »

But, what is your opinion on this? Would if be better to run short and fast, or long and slow?

I don't know a lot about muscle development, there are better heads here to advise. But I would just consider the specificity of what you are doing. If kickboxing requires sharp, intense bursts of energy, then that is the kind of running you should do, to build that kind of energy system. Long runs will build an endurance base, but also might be draining, when done in combination with your other training.

LuckyLloyd

You're 16, 5' 8" and 63kgs. Why do you think you need to lose weight or fat? What's the goal?

Regarding diet I'd say ask for more veg and meat and make it the primary component of a meal when given the opportunity.

I'd also note to everyone else posting on the thread that a 16 year old is unlikely to have control over their household shop. And a very active teenager can afford to eat more carbs.

DublinArnie

Oryx wrote: »

I don't know a lot about muscle development, there are better heads here to advise. But I would just consider the specificity of what you are doing. If kickboxing requires sharp, intense bursts of energy, then that is the kind of running you should do, to build that kind of energy system. Long runs will build an endurance base, but also might be draining, when done in combination with your other training.

It does make sense, I see your point. Just, I've been told that running quite longish distances can use up your muscles instead of your fat for energy. That's why I'm asking. But I suppose it's okay, if I do strength exercises in harmony with the running.

Anyway, tomorrow I'm going to test out the sprints, and see how they work for me for a week or two.

Alf Veedersane

If you want to run, high intensity intervals would suit kickboxing best.

If it's to improve physique, clean your diet up.

Alf Veedersane

And long runs won't result in muscle loss unless you're eating a lot less than you should be and running long distances.

LuckyLloyd

Do you do any actual sprints?

Go down your local GAA / Soccer pitch, jog around it a couple of times, stretch then do a number of short sprints (from the end line to the 14 or edge of the box let's say); half the amount of longer efforts (say to the 45 yard line); and then 3 or so all out efforts the length of the pitch. Make sure to get your breath back each time.

Very beneficial, and a good one to do with a couple of mates.

DublinArnie

I reason why I'm asking this is because I want to clean up my body and get rid of the floating fat. Just to make the muscles more refined, and give the body more shape. I know it sounds silly for someone this age but it's time I start taking care of my body properly.

I've decided I'm going to fast intervals, and see how they work for me. Obviously I'll go light for the first few sessions so I can get a feel for it.

Diet-wise, what do you people recommend for post(if any) and pre workout/training foods be? I read somewhere, that you should eat something surgery(small amounts) before doing any training (probably depends what type) so you can kick start your metabolism or something? When I finish my regular training, I come home very hungry, but I manage to control it kinda.

Thanks for all the advice here, nice to get some insight.

DublinArnie

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Do you do any actual sprints?

Go down your local GAA / Soccer pitch, jog around it a couple of times, stretch then do a number of short sprints (from the end line to the 14 or edge of the box let's say); half the amount of longer efforts (say to the 45 yard line); and then 3 or so all out efforts the length of the pitch. Make sure to get your breath back each time.

Very beneficial, and a good one to do with a couple of mates.

I have no mates who are interested in destroying their legs unfortunately.

EmcD123

I do sprint on the track but I'm just going to tell you a few things.

Run on grass if you can. It'll help your ankle and it'll strengthen those joints and muscles and not put too much strain on you.
2km isn't really a long distance . if you're doing those kind of runs then you should be doing them with a goal in mind.

Me and my group used to do 3x2km rreps10mins per rep.
See how fast you can run it and try to bring your times down constantly then add more so bring a watch and run a circuit you know well.

Don't do anything on it till your ankle is better though. Ice it and go for walks,that helps to speed up recovery and keeps you doing something.

If you wanted to do fast sprints I suggest doing 80m sprints and eventually get yourself up to maybe 120m at Max.
When you're running fast though make sure you warm up well. Do a 1km slow jog first followed by gentle stretches(less than 10second hold) and loosen out the joints.
Try to run with good technique or else you'll just injure yourself.
Its a lot easier to get injured doing shorter distances faster than doing long distances slower.

However with your background in training it shouldn't be too hard for you to get better.
The main question for you is why do want to run? And is it the best way to meet your goals?

Is your ankle a once off thing or are you prone to injuries? I know that some of my friends are quite injury prone and it ruins sprinting for them

Aspiring

Another routine which can be done on a GAA pitch:

Sprint the end lines
Jog/walk (depending on your level of fitness) the sidelines
Repeat for 30 mins

Did this for about 4 months, didn't lose any muscle (actually gained some during this time) and got extremely fit.

As you get used to the routine, make it harder by increasing the speed you run the sidelines. Doing it on a GAA pitch/grass of any kind is quite beneficial IMO as it doesn't tend to hurt your ankles as much as road running does. This routine is a nice mix of high and medium/low intensity.

DublinArnie

EmcD123 wrote: »

I do sprint on the track but I'm just going to tell you a few things.

Run on grass if you can. It'll help your ankle and it'll strengthen those joints and muscles and not put too much strain on you.
2km isn't really a long distance . if you're doing those kind of runs then you should be doing them with a goal in mind.

Me and my group used to do 3x2km rreps10mins per rep.
See how fast you can run it and try to bring your times down constantly then add more so bring a watch and run a circuit you know well.

Don't do anything on it till your ankle is better though. Ice it and go for walks,that helps to speed up recovery and keeps you doing something.

If you wanted to do fast sprints I suggest doing 80m sprints and eventually get yourself up to maybe 120m at Max.
When you're running fast though make sure you warm up well. Do a 1km slow jog first followed by gentle stretches(less than 10second hold) and loosen out the joints.
Try to run with good technique or else you'll just injure yourself.
Its a lot easier to get injured doing shorter distances faster than doing long distances slower.

However with your background in training it shouldn't be too hard for you to get better.
The main question for you is why do want to run? And is it the best way to meet your goals?

Is your ankle a once off thing or are you prone to injuries? I know that some of my friends are quite injury prone and it ruins sprinting for them

I like the idea of doing reps. I will defo try the 2km x 3 and see how that goes. It's the first time I've had a sore ankle in quite a while, I think it's because I've ran on path (there was no grass section :mad:) for a few minutes after running on grass for like almost the entire 12km. I prefer to run on grass like you said, it's way better.

Besides my physical aim, I'm quite hyper, so running (or any very high intensive activity) releases the stress and my urges.

Alf Veedersane

You don't need to be doing 2km sets like that. Repeated ~50m sets will get you fitter and have a bigger impact on your kickboxing.

The fitter you get, the shorter the break you will need between sprints.

But for now, rest your ankle instead of risking a bigger injury that has you laid up for longer.

DublinArnie

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

You don't need to be doing 2km sets like that. Repeated ~50m sets will get you fitter and have a bigger impact on your kickboxing.

The fitter you get, the shorter the break you will need between sprints.

But for now, rest your ankle instead of risking a bigger injury that has you laid up for longer.

How will I measure the distances though? I don't know any GAA/Soccer pitches near me. Would there be any in the Phoenix park? I see goal posts, but there are no markings on the ground.

EmcD123

2km can make you very strong as they're flat out/ but yes if he wants to get the strongest and faster shorter sprints are definitely good.
Even if you're doing short sprints though do them in grass.
And don't do too many . hill sprints are also a great idea for strength and intensity

Alf Veedersane

DublinArnie wrote: »

How will I measure the distances though? I don't know any GAA/Soccer pitches near me. Would there be any in the Phoenix park? I see goal posts, but there are no markings on the ground.

Count out 50-60 steps. That'll be close enough. Mark the start point and end point with anything.

DublinArnie

Thanks for the suggestions! I'm now getting excited for tomorrow .

What do you guys recommend to eat after and before the running session though?

Alf Veedersane

EmcD123 wrote: »

2km can make you very strong as they're flat out/ but yes if he wants to get the strongest and faster shorter sprints are definitely good.

Your training runs are tailored towards your 400/800m runs. Different goals.

Sprints are more suited to a sport like kickboxing.

EmcD123

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Your training runs are tailored towards your 400/800m runs. Different goals.

Sprints are more suited to a sport like kickboxing.

Ya I know. Still he mentioned those were the distances he was currently doing (2km) so I wanted to tell him what he could do with those.

But yes as far as kick boxing goes high intensity and short is good. I would recommend that when you're doing your short sprints do them with a tailwind if possible. Running into the wind is ridiculously hard and a tailwind get you moving quicker. Also most pitches aren't level so run the length in whatever direction is slightly downhill. Even just the most minimal downhill can increase your running speed which will in turn make your stride better and the faster you go the more benefits from it.

One thing I notice a load of beginners to short sprints do is they muscle through it. Try to go as fast as you can but remember to breathe and use your arms. It'll make it a lot easier if you breathe. Too many people hold their breath when they're sprinting and it makes you exhausted before you're even halfway through the sessiom