**Spoilers** Series 8, Episode 1 - "Deep Breath"

flazio

Correct me if I'm wrong but the first 'kill' from the episode, the guy whose eyes were stolen by the baddie, was that the same actor who played Clyde the Doctor hunter back in Rose?

Overall it didn't grab me as much as Eleventh Hour did.

Das Kitty

T-Bird wrote: »

First thought it was parody of "Doctors wife". Then obviously changed to "Girl in fireplace". However, at end have kind of mixed the two, Paradise might be TARDIS Land with fountain being main console in the TARDIS. Probably stupid, but not if am right at end :P...

I like your idea. It ties in with me thinking 'Missy' is the Master.

Seriously, put her lines coming from John Simm. The Master would choose such a cringey awful fake name too.

doctorwhogirl

Missy being master was definitely in my mind. All she needed were some velvet accessories.

Doctor DooM

No, no NO people. When a new female character appears on Doctor Who you have to say they're a regeneration of someone who's name begins with R.

River, Romana, the Rani, even Rose for some reason. But like, there's rules, please stick to them

Das Kitty

Doctor DooM wrote: »

No, no NO people. When a new female character appears on Doctor Who you have to say they're a regeneration of someone who's name begins with R.

River, Romana, the Rani, even Rose for some reason. But like, there's rules, please stick to them

Roschei?

:pac:

Doctor DooM

Das Kitty wrote: »

Roschei?

:pac:

Scooby Who

Das Kitty

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Scooby Who

Well, the Master needs a new sidekick since Lucy bit it. Either Scooby or Muttley would work really well.

magic roundabou

hey

did anyone notice the st Johns ambulance sticker on the door of the Tardis ... i dont remember seeing that before - now to be honest i would only have watched the last few of Matts eposides once so i could have missed it

thanks

ps ... need to watch the eposide again before i can decide if i liked it !

Ron DMC

magic roundabou wrote: »

hey

did anyone notice the st Johns ambulance sticker on the door of the Tardis ... i dont remember seeing that before - now to be honest i would only have watched the last few of Matts eposides once so i could have missed it

thanks

ps ... need to watch the eposide again before i can decide if i liked it !

I noticed that myself. Can't remember if I'd ever spotted it before, it may well have always been there for all I know.

EDIT: Seems the St. John's Ambulance logo has been there since 2010, and also featured way back when.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-1268118/Doctor-Whos-Tardis-gets-makeover-St-John-Ambulance-badge-returns.html (warning: Daily Mail)

Doctor DooM

magic roundabou wrote: »

hey

did anyone notice the st Johns ambulance sticker on the door of the Tardis ... i dont remember seeing that before - now to be honest i would only have watched the last few of Matts eposides once so i could have missed it

thanks

ps ... need to watch the eposide again before i can decide if i liked it !

It was put back since Smith took over and they redid the Tardis props!

Mycroft H

Yea its been there a while

Penn

flazio wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong but the first 'kill' from the episode, the guy whose eyes were stolen by the baddie, was that the same actor who played Clyde the Doctor hunter back in Rose?

Nah, definitely different actors. Mark Benton was in Rose, Tony Way was the guy in this episode.

pixelburp

"The Times, shall I send it up?"

Haha, oh I've said it before, but I'll say it again, Doctor Who's comedy writing has always been pretty hilarious at times. That particular moment above was pure slapstick - the reaction from Clara sold the laugh - but even with the darker tone, the comedic moments throughout that first story could be pretty fantastic.

So, right, regeneration stories. Well, if you look back on them they're almost never about the main plot or immediate menace, because why would they be? Of course, this being Doctor Who you need some form of action and mystery so they have to be there, but ultimately these stories are about the Doctor finding his new identity, not to mention his companions coming to terms with this new man stepping out of the TARDIS. Heck, are these sort of stories even ever any good? As much as Tom Baker became the quintessential Doctor, his opening story was pure muck, as bad as the show could get at the time. Ditto Eccleston's, and his adventure had to relaunch an entire show.

So by those standards, I thought Deep Breath was pretty good to be fair - a fairly straightforward plot that acted as a sort-of sequel to a previous new-Who adventure.

It was also an interesting flip in the sense that it was about the companion more than the Doctor: Tennant's first outing featured a lot of weeping from Rose and inexplicable robot Xmas trees, but here we had a decent episode that asked what it was Clara saw in the Doctor, all without descending into the kind of melodramatic histrionics that people are quick to forget could suffocate the RTD era of Who. Ok, I'm not sure this story answered any of those questions, but it did show enough depth to be praised.

As to the Doctor himself? Hmm, you know I'm just not sure. He seems spikier all right, he's definitely not the hugging type, but still has that manic twinkle that defined the Doctor as an excitable, irresistible figure. It's just too early to tell given the nature of the story in question. One thing's for sure: Peter Capaldi just dominates the screen & every scene he's in - I'd go so far as to say he eclipses Eccleston in terms of raw magnetism.

Also: worth noting that it wasn't just the Doctor who became a little darker: the show did too. The cannibalisation of people was handled with PG13 ickiness - some of the shots of the leader-bot were pretty gruesome - and his death was also pretty nasty. Oh and of course there was a balloon made of skin. Yikes.

Also also: RTD seems to get much of the praise for brining same-sex relationships into a Saturday teamtime show, but it was Moffat that introduced the Paternoster Gang, with its married couple, who just happen to be lesbians. Ok, one of them is a lizard, but still, praise where it's due.

Also also also: this 'Missy' character? Who knows, good to see this new incarnation of Who hasn't forgotten how to throw out those big 'wtf?' mysteries

Das Kitty

I liked the Doctor drinking Whiskey. He's definitely a grown-up this time!

I also loved the banter between him and Clara in the restaurant. They work really well together.

Wibbs

pixelburp wrote: »

Ditto Eccleston's, and his adventure had to relaunch an entire show.

Eh? Pure muck? It was almost entirely about the companion more than the doc and introduced the Doctor character to a new audience without going down a list of obvious exposition and didn't have the huge fanbase as a crutch to help it, while also trying to find its tone. Though RTD had one advantage, there were expectations a plenty, but nothing like the hoards of reboot fans expectations that Moffat has to deal with. Hence this episode used the Clara character as an audience substitute, just like in the first episode in the reboot, only this time the entire thing was "please please accept this new guy in the role, we know he's not a youngfella, so don't leave us on account of that and here's why". Smiths cameo was an almost painfully obvious example of it.

One thing's for sure: Peter Capaldi just dominates the screen & every scene he's in - I'd go so far as to say he eclipses Eccleston in terms of raw magnetism.

Like Eccleston before him he's a damned good actor with many miles under his belt, so I'd expect that. Though personally I found him over egging it in the first half. It'll be interesting to see how he develops.

Also also: RTD seems to get much of the praise for brining same-sex relationships into a Saturday teamtime show, but it was Moffat that introduced the Paternoster Gang, with its married couple, who just happen to be lesbians. Ok, one of them is a lizard, but still, praise where it's due.

RTD should get pretty much all the praise. Without him I'd bet the farm Moffat wouldn't have thought of it, or if he had wouldn't risk it(and a light on the physical lesbian married couple is an easier sell than a libidinous bisexual man who snogs men and women on screen). RTD really did change things in mainstream TV land on that score and did so very early on. That was a helluva risk in an early episode of a first series that may or may not have legs and be renewed.

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

Eh? Pure muck? It was almost entirely about the companion more than the doc and introduced the Doctor character to a new audience without going down a list of obvious exposition and didn't have the huge fanbase as a crutch to help it, while also trying to find its tone. Though RTD had one advantage, there were expectations a plenty, but nothing like the hoards of reboot fans expectations that Moffat has to deal with. Hence this episode used the Clara character as an audience substitute, just like in the first episode in the reboot, only this time the entire thing was "please please accept this new guy in the role, we know he's not a youngfella, so don't leave us on account of that and here's why". Smiths cameo was an almost painfully obvious example of it.

I think you missed my point, which was only that viewed simply against the merits of other adventures, regeneration episodes are almost universally subpar, because, yeah, they have a job to do beyond simply going on a fun adventure. We all know 'Rose' had to do plenty of that to do - and clearly the fact there's a series 8 at all meant it succeeded - but it still didn't stop the actual story being pretty poor and juvenile. 'Pure muck's just hyperbole. Against the already low standards of regen stories, I thought 'Deep Breath' did OK and I'm hoping/ sure things improve. It was no 'Spearhead from Space', but happily was no 'Twin Dilemma' either To be fair, it's debatable 'Rose' should even count as a regen story anyway, considering, well, it isn't really haha.

Yeah, Smith's cameo was a little on the nose, but it's a fair enough intention given the nature of TV these days. Heroes aren't old anymore, the notion of ones lead character being over 40 or a fatherly figure is pretty dead at the moment, with demographics pushing scripts towards a younger audience, and the modern stereotype dictating that an aging character either be a sage or someone to pass the torch. The last two docs were both young, one good-looking and the other a blatant flirt. Seemed reasonable enough to go 'give creaky 'aul Malcolm Tucker a go'

Wibbs wrote: »

RTD should get pretty much all the praise. Without him I'd bet the farm Moffat wouldn't have thought of it, or if he had wouldn't risk it(and a light on the physical lesbian married couple is an easier sell than a libidinous bisexual man who snogs men and women on screen). RTD really did change things in mainstream TV land on that score and did so very early on. That was a helluva risk in an early episode of a first series that may or may not have legs and be renewed.

It's conjecture really what Moffat would or wouldn't have done had RTD not paved the way, but it would have been easy to just forget the throughput of having same-sex relationships within the shows narrative. It's not an either-or situation, both script editors can take the praise, and for his own part, Moffat has continued the worthy trend.

tommy2bad

pixelburp;
Yeah, Smith's cameo was a little on the nose, but it's a fair enough intention given the nature of TV these days. Heroes aren't old anymore, the notion of ones lead character being over 40 or a fatherly figure is pretty dead at the moment, with demographics pushing scripts towards a younger audience, and the modern stereotype dictating that an aging character either be a sage or someone to pass the torch.

I hated the cameo, nice and all as it was to get one last seene with 11.
Your right old men are not heres anymore on TV but in movie land they are the new kids on the block, witness Liam Neson's born again action man roles. Casting an older doctor could be a stroke of genius, we get sage like and kick ass (well as much as any doctor has been a kick ass). Theirs also bite to this doctor, a willingness to do bad things that the previous doctors didn't have. Though I wonder now if instead of just tossing the clockwork robot off the building, he didn't somehow download him to the tardis, could that be the tardis he was greeted by at the end?

jasonb

I must admit, I think I will grow to like Capaldi as the Doctor, but one thing struck me about the episode, and I don't know if it's his fault or not. There were three scenes were he was involved in action scenes. One was falling from the window to the tree, the other was riding the horse, and the last was hanging from the lift.

All three scenes just looked really bad to be honest. They were all designed to hide that he clearly wasn't on a horse, clearly wasn't falling through a tree and clearly wasn't hanging from the lift, and it just looked very clumsy indeed. Maybe it's the Director's/Editor's fault, or maybe it's Capaldi isn't used to action scenes? Either way, they felt like a jolt to me, like the budget had run out so they filmed the 'actor pretending to ride a horse' just as well I could have sitting at home with a camera!

J.

coffee_cake

Wa? Didn't we see from previews that he was on a horse?

http://i7.cdnds.net/14/03/450x515/462651309.jpg

http://static.squarespace.com/static/51b3dc8ee4b051b96ceb10de/t/52d4e4ebe4b07775033482b6/1389683947950/capaldi-series-8-filming-pj-stand.jpg

edit: oh it really was a mechanical horse and stuntman? lol

Capaldi admitted: "I'm afraid of that horse and the horse knows it", explaining why he was not carrying out the horsey stuntwork himself.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/showbiz-tv/hot-tv/360500/Peter-Capaldi-admits-he-s-afraid-as-he-rides-fake-horse-during-Doctor-Who-filming

Well lads they fooled me anyway

Art_Wolf

I'm still in shock at the Doctor bullying the bum to give him the guy's clothes...

Das Kitty

Art_Wolf wrote: »

I'm still in shock at the Doctor bullying the bum to give him the guy's clothes...

He did give him a watch for it, I suppose!

Someone added subtitles with bad language added and it was just like Malcolm Tucker.

WomanSkirtFan8

jasonb wrote: »

I must admit, I think I will grow to like Capaldi as the Doctor, but one thing struck me about the episode, and I don't know if it's his fault or not. There were three scenes were he was involved in action scenes. One was falling from the window to the tree, the other was riding the horse, and the last was hanging from the lift.

All three scenes just looked really bad to be honest. They were all designed to hide that he clearly wasn't on a horse, clearly wasn't falling through a tree and clearly wasn't hanging from the lift, and it just looked very clumsy indeed. Maybe it's the Director's/Editor's fault, or maybe it's Capaldi isn't used to action scenes? Either way, they felt like a jolt to me, like the budget had run out so they filmed the 'actor pretending to ride a horse' just as well I could have sitting at home with a camera!

J.

give him a chance. It was only his first episode. I'm sure with time he'll be absolutely brilliant.

Wibbs

pixelburp wrote: »

Yeah, Smith's cameo was a little on the nose, but it's a fair enough intention given the nature of TV these days. Heroes aren't old anymore, the notion of ones lead character being over 40 or a fatherly figure is pretty dead at the moment, with demographics pushing scripts towards a younger audience, and the modern stereotype dictating that an aging character either be a sage or someone to pass the torch. The last two docs were both young, one good-looking and the other a blatant flirt. Seemed reasonable enough to go 'give creaky 'aul Malcolm Tucker a go'

For me PB, dramatically speaking, what might have been more interesting would be to have Peter continue something like that connection with the companion. After all he was supposed to a thousand years old plus when he was flirting with her with his younger face. Even more so as she's seen all his faces including Hartnell and Hurt, so it would hardly come as a shock. The idea that his face changed but under all that she was still his "impossible girl" and he was still her doc and how that would play out now that she sees him as an "old guy". As tommy2bad notes oulfellas* are on a major roll in the mainstream flicks these days.

Put it another way the very first episodes of the reboot had an apparently middle aged bovver boy/Nazi naval officer enticing and spiriting away a teenaged girl away on adventures. An uneasy situation in a few respects and one handled in a pretty realistic way by RTD underneath the farting aliens stuff. It was a bit uneasy. IIRC her oluwan called the cops and punched him over it. And the Rose wan mentioned it being a huge age gap(and rolling with it). Never mind the weirdness of him taking her back to watch her fathers death over and over again. Freud would have had a field day. Tennant made that all the easier, but a lot less uneasy.

It's conjecture really what Moffat would or wouldn't have done had RTD not paved the way, but it would have been easy to just forget the throughput of having same-sex relationships within the shows narrative. It's not an either-or situation, both script editors can take the praise, and for his own part, Moffat has continued the worthy trend.

Oh sure M kept it on, but it is an either or IMHO and RTD should still get the lions share of the credit there for introducing such a thing to teatime family telly. He kept it going and added to it in Torchwood too. Given he's a gay chappie, he had the more reasons to try and buck the gender preference bar and make it "acceptable" and he succeeded with it. Capt Jack was a well loved character. To be fair it did help casting someone like John Barrowman in the role as he's just such a lovable bloke to start with.




*though for god sakes don't tell the huge fecker that is Mr Liam Neeson I said that. He takes out wolves and Russian mafia guys for fun. He may well be a lovely man in real life, but I still wouldn't want to piss the chap off too much. I mean look at the size of the bugger. He might make for an interesting Doc actually. Well if the phone rang in the tardis and Davros was making the call, the reply could get interesting...

Wibbs

Das Kitty wrote: »

He did give him a watch for it, I suppose!

A shíte watch with it so the tramp got the bad end of the deal. Another reason I liked Ecclestone, he was sporting a gold Cartier tank(that was stuck at 12), the flash git. Sad to say I notice these things. *thinks of starting up a thread in the watch forum entitled "what watch should various fictional cultural icons have worn, but didn't"* Our Doc would be a charm for such a thread, depending on the doc involved. Tennant, defo a Swatch, or maybe a Hello Kitty casio. [watch nerd]

Mr E

I tried 3 nights in a row to watch this in bed, and fell asleep all 3 times. Dreadfully boring (at least for the first 30 minutes).
I think I'll just watch the last 10 minutes tonight. Hopefully it will get back on track on Saturday.

jasonb

WomanSkirtFan8 wrote: »

give him a chance. It was only his first episode. I'm sure with time he'll be absolutely brilliant.

Actually, after watching it a second time, I already think he has the potential to be an excellent Doctor. I just hope the Production Team do a better job of some action scenes in future, they just felt like they weren't up to the same standard as before...

J.

pixelburp

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh sure M kept it on, but it is an either or IMHO and RTD should still get the lions share of the credit there for introducing such a thing to teatime family telly. He kept it going and added to it in Torchwood too. Given he's a gay chappie, he had the more reasons to try and buck the gender preference bar and make it "acceptable" and he succeeded with it. Capt Jack was a well loved character. To be fair it did help casting someone like John Barrowman in the role as he's just such a lovable bloke to start with.

To be honest, I just threw out some props to Moffat for continuing a trend from RTD's era, I don't see why the two Editors would be pitched against each other *shrug* and wouldn't really argue the toss any more than that. The Paternoster Gang are a nice continuation of a worthy idea started back in 2005. It's a little sad that Dr. Who is the exception rather than the rule here, but Sci-Fi has always been the genre that lead the way in social enlightenment. C'est tous!

Art_Wolf

Das Kitty wrote: »

He did give him a watch for it, I suppose!

Want to re-watch to see if he was wearing one as all I can think of is "The doctor lies."

BuffyBot

Got to say I found the story a bit so-so, though it improved on second viewing.

Capaldi though is a treat.. He brought a sense of unpredictability and danger to the Doctor which has been sadly missing. I'm looking forward to seeing what comes next.

FunLover18

Finally managed to catch up with this. Have to say I think Capaldi will be great, like Smith, but also like Smith I think he could be let down by the writing. The Missy thing at the end leads me to believe to we have yet another 3 season arc to contend with which I can't say I'm delighted about. Highlight for me was the scene in the restaurant. Anyone else think Clara's memory of the classroom was a bit out of character, she's been a pretty strong character (even described as a control freak) found it a bit odd that she'd let a bunch of kids run over her like that.