12 yrs in job on €9.50 hr!

Hardoneby

Hello. Would anybody be willing to discuss their wages? I am 12 and half yrs working at a deli counter. After so many yrs I have a lot of responsibility.
I deal with reps, deliveries, place orders, complete relevant paper work, adhere and implement HACCP, deal with EH officers and store inspection by head office etc.
my employer thinks nothing of ringing me on my holidays or days off.
I really feel in the last few months that I am being taken advantage of.
Is €9.50 an hour after 12 years as ridiculous as I think it is.
Thank you.

//MOD
See Mod warning post 63 for going off topic.
//MOD

Tails142

How many hours do you get per week though? If someone new joined would they be on a lower wage or get fewer hours?

bigroad

You must one of the few workers who have served for 12 years with no increase from a low wage.
If you had started in a hotel 12 years ago i would say you could of advanced to quiet a better wage in that time frame.
Its time you went for a rise to about 11 euro i think.

Hardoneby

Hi Tails142. I do between 20 - 30 hours a week. The deli closes at 3.30. One of my workmates started 3 yrs ago and is on €9.00 hr. It was actually her who said to me that I was being ''taken for a ride''. She wouldn't have any of the responsibilities I have.
Hi bigroad. I asked for a rise on Friday so I am anxiously awaiting Tuesday! I have completed online courses for my job. I've also attended training days and am due to attend another one next month.

Stheno

Could someone on minimum wage replace you?

Hardoneby

A deli charge hand could replace me. But I couldn't see a deli charge hand working for €8.65 an hour unless they were very stuck for a job.

davo10

Hardoneby wrote: »

But I couldn't see a deli charge hand working for €8.65 an hour unless they were very stuck for a job.

Are there any people "stuck for a job" right now in this country?

I think the point Stheno is making is, before you demand a pay rise, ask your self if your employer could replace you with someone who would do the job for less. Unfortunately, if you are being paid what the market will bare, you are probably being paid what you are worth regardless of how long you have been there. Sorry.

Neon_Lights

You unfortunately have to fight your own corner on this one, some employers would give you a wage increase automatically but most others wont. €9.50 an hour for 12 years shows no initiative on your part or no hunger for career progression, you're just taking what's handed to you and moaning about it. You have to ascertain.

-what role you want in the wage bracket you want
-what training or skills you need to display to get this position

And then:
-Get these and gain practical experience where you can
-Show these to managers, or in a job interview when required

Hardoneby

Thanks all for your input. It looks like I have big decisions to make.

professore

Look for another job somewhere else? If you get €11 \ hr somewhere else it's a great bargaining tool at the very least. ... Or you could just take the new job.

davo10

Neon_Lights wrote: »

You unfortunately have to fight your own corner on this one, some employers would give you a wage increase automatically but most others wont. €9.50 an hour for 12 years shows no initiative on your part or no hunger for career progression,

That very much depends on what the average wage for that industry is. I think it is unrealistic to expect OP to be getting €20 per hour after 12 years if the industry norm is €9.50 per hour. I think Stheno's point is pertinent, can her employer find a replacement whom they could pay the same or even less? If the answer to that is yes then she will "fighting her corner" from a weakened position.

Yer Aul One

I think you definitely deserve more than €9.50 per hour

If you lay out your added responsibilities to your boss, i reckon he/she will bump you up! Good luck

Neon_Lights

davo10 wrote: »

That very much depends on what the average wage for that industry is. I think it is unrealistic to expect OP to be getting €20 per hour after 12 years if the industry norm is €9.50 per hour. I think Stheno's point is pertinent, can her employer find a replacement whom they could pay the same or even less? If the answer to that is yes then she will "fighting her corner" from a weakened position.

I take your point, but then again especially in retail, customer experience is king. I have stopped going to some deli's because some person with broken English doesn't even know a hot chicken roll from a breakfast roll. You cannot replace somebody with this experience and ability to generate attractive deli propositions to a customer (I find what I said pretentious yet awesome :P).

12 years in a job though, given extra responsibility and taking it on without a hassle and displaying this aswell. You'd at least expect that they would be put towards a section manager/supervisor role i.e. deli manager. You can't take away experience in this regard.

Then again its always an employees perogative to push their best interests, and some store owners are definitely cheap old cowboys pushing margins. But for OP I think there definitely would be an opportunity that exists for you somewhere. Just push the boundaries and see what good things can happen.

davo10

Neon_Lights wrote: »

I take your point, but then again especially in retail, customer experience is king. I have stopped going to some deli's because some person with broken English doesn't even know a hot chicken roll from a breakfast roll. You cannot replace somebody with this experience and ability to generate attractive deli propositions to a customer (I find what I said pretentious yet awesome :P).

12 years in a job though, given extra responsibility and taking it on without a hassle and displaying this aswell. You'd at least expect that they would be put towards a section manager/supervisor role i.e. deli manager. You can't take away experience in this regard.

Then again its always an employees perogative to push their best interests, and some store owners are definitely cheap old cowboys pushing margins. But for OP I think there definitely would be an opportunity that exists for you somewhere. Just push the boundaries and see what good things can happen.

The worst they can say is "no" and at least OP will know where she stands. If it is a counter in a big store, they often have trainee manager/supervisor programs so it may be difficult for OP to jump ahead of these trainees. If it's a small family run shop then there may not be positions available for OP to progress.

Saying OP "deserves" a pay rise is fine, I am certain given her experience, loyalty, added responsibilities that she does, but unfortunately that does not mean she will get one if the average for the industry is €9:50.

professore

What you deserve doesn't matter. It's how little they can get away with paying you.If you go shopping, if there are two identical items, one priced €12 and one priced €20, do you buy the €20 one because it's worth €20, and you feel €12 is too little to pay?

Yer Aul One

Neon_Lights wrote: »

some person with broken English doesn't even know a hot chicken roll from a breakfast roll

I presume you took this to the Roll Ombudsman? Please expand on the ridiculous situation that someone could mistake a chicken fillet roll for a breakfast roll...

Neon_Lights

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I presume you took this to the Roll Ombudsman? Please expand on the ridiculous situation that someone could mistake a chicken fillet roll for a breakfast roll...

Here's a visual representation of what happened, They just kept saying "chicken sandwich"



I informed this to the minister of roll affairs, who was shocked and appalled and isnt really having a good weekend after that hash brown seizure yesterday.

Greentree_uk

indeed OP, only one who can fight your corner for a wage increase is yourself. Don't ask Don't get. Any employer will continue to pay same wage unless asked otherwise.

Yer Aul One

Neon_Lights wrote: »

Here's a visual representation of what happened, They just kept saying "chicken sandwich"

Haha, i love the empty look in the servers eyes

Hardoneby

It is a busy family run store. There are no progression possibilities for me there. The person I liaise with above me is my employer.
The person that the other deli staff liaise with is me.
Unfortunately it will be another 3 yrs before my children are self sufficient and I won't need to be organising childminding and therefore have time for courses, classes, retraining etc.
I asked for a pay rise on Friday. Roll on tomorrow??

Yer Aul One

Hardoneby wrote: »

It is a busy family run store. There are no progression possibilities for me there. The person I liaise with above me is my employer.
The person that the other deli staff liaise with is me.
Unfortunately it will be another 3 yrs before my children are self sufficient and I won't need to be organising childminding and therefore have time for courses, classes, retraining etc.

I think they are taking you for granted big time. I would ask for your responsibilities be recognised with a change in your title. Something like deli supervisor would be good. I reckon a jump to 11euro p/h is fair!

Iseedeadpixels

From what you have said about your responsibilities, you should be applying for trainee managers jobs you have the experience.

OldMrBrennan83

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davo10

Yer Aul One wrote: »

I think they are taking you for granted big time. I would ask for your responsibilities be recognised with a change in your title. Something like deli supervisor would be good. I reckon a jump to 11euro p/h is fair!

She is only being "taken for granted" if her wage is below market rate, is it?

If it's a small shop run by the owner, then he/she is the deli supervisor.

Gongoozler

I'm not really seeing what you think is worth more tbh. Adhering to HACCP us mandatory for all deli staff, it's your business if you answer the phone to your boss on your days off. The paper work you refer to is really the only possible thing that may warrant more pay than a regular deli worker should get, and you are getting more than a regular deli worker in your place.

It's not really anyone else's fault that you stayed in the job 12 years. Being there a long time doesn't by itself warrant more money.

It'd be surprising to me if you get more, good luck with it, and fair play to your employer if they do up your wage.

I'd suggest if you're not happy with the pay, look for another job. There's a chance you could talk yourself up to a supervisor role in another deli, and so may be able to get a little bit more. But be advised what you are currently doing does not amount to a supervisor role as standard, and so you might have to do more.

chin nuts

They can't sack u and replace u with a cheaper alternative. After 12 years u have some employee rights and u will have grounds for unfair dismissal u may even be entitled to redundancy. The employer here should recognise ur loyalty and experience with a raise but u should have asked alot sooner than this to be fair.

OldMrBrennan83

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chin nuts

Patww79 wrote: »

But if they just fabricate a reason for the dismissal. Employers can do what they like, so asking may be dangerous.

Surely after 12 years working for a family business the OP has a fair relationship with the employers. If asking for a pay rise warrants dismissal in theirs eyes then I'd look else where for employment and leave them with the headache of employing, training new staff every other month.

Elmo

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

problem with employer/employee relationship is that the employee is often afraid to ask for a pay raise if they think that they might get sacked. The only thing the employer can do is say yes or no. If they fabricate a reason for dismissal the judge would have to turn around and ask, why did it take you 12 years to fire what seems to be a loyal and professional employee?

It is daft to think an employer would rather fire someone than to simply say no.

If they do say no OP look for a new job.

OldMrBrennan83

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MrBobbyZ

Are you easily replaced? Or a vital member of staff? Are you managing the other staff in the department's day to day tasks? What specific talents do you bring to work each day?

Just some of the questions your employer will be asking themselves. Of course, can they afford to give you and everyone else in the same boat (beacause if you get it surely more will be knocking on the door) a rise? This is probably the biggest hurdle.
Sometimes, in the absense of a pay rise, there may be some other benefits (better working times, pension contributions, staff discounts etc) that are worth looking at.

Having said that, fair play for asking. At least you'll know soon.

Best of luck.

MrBobbyZ

Patww79 wrote: »

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Relationship cant be bad if it lasted 12 years either.

Elmo

MrBobbyZ wrote: »

Are you easily replaced? Or a vital member of staff? Are you managing the other staff in the department's day to day tasks? What specific talents do you bring to work each day?

Is this job good for my future? As a long term member of staff should I have got a pay rise? Do I think I could get a better job? What are the benefits of not looking for a new job?

I wouldn't be handing in my notice straight away, but you should be asking yourself some questions.

The relationship mustn't be that good if there's been no offer of a rise in the last ten years.

Many employers will not give out a pay rise just because they have a loyal and good worker, the OP has never asked for a pay rise and the Employer wants to keep their costs down.

davo10

The OP should ask for a raise because quite simply if you do not ask you do not get. Employers are not in the habit of voluntarily giving pay rises, it doesn't make business sense to increase your costs unless you have to.

That said, OP is in an unenviable position that her employer may be able to replace her quickly and cheaply. I am not confident that OP would be in a position to provide an ultimatum to her employer, obviously he cannot sack her as she has employment rights, but if she says "give me a pay rise or I'll leave" then the outcome of that conversation is not likely to be favourable to the OP.

average hero

Hi OP,

I recognize the predicament that you're in and respect your position. If I were your employer, I reckon that I'd have given you a pay rise with the added responsibilities that you have. There ARE a number of things to consider though...

1) Despite the fact that you may be a great worker and have great experience, unfortunately the market dictates the general wage a worker will get. With the way jobs are at the moment there are probably a number of people who could do your job for the same or even less money. This is not a dig at you, just a possibility and it weakens your bargaining position.

2)I personally believe that in and around €11 would be fair but the only way you're going to get it is by doing relevant courses outside work and by making yourself indispensable to the company. I think you should be applying for trainee/assistant manager positions in different franchises/delis/supermarkets.

After 12 years you have the experience to move up the ladder in some way. The next logical step is some sort of manager position. In your current position I fear it may be unlikely that you'll get a significant wage increase.

I wish you all the best and hope you get a wage rise and promotion.

Tar.Aldarion

You should be aiming for a managerial position somewhere else, test the waters, see if there is anything they want that you are lacking, get it while you currently work until you get a better position elsewhere.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

You're currently getting less than €1 more per hour than the minimum a replacement employee could be got for. I think for sure you deserve a little bump.

If a replacement employee can't be trusted with doing deliveries, stock checks and all these other extra responsibilities you have, and if the owner has to pick up this slack should you leave he may very well consider you earning a couple of euro above the minimum wage as good value to him on both a personal and on a business level.

davo10

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

If a replacement employee can't be trusted with doing deliveries, stock checks and all these other extra responsibilities you have, and if the owner has to pick up this slack should you leave he may very well consider you earning a couple of euro above the minimum wage as good value to him on both a personal and on a business level.

Effectively, this is what it boils down to, what value does your employer place on you. You are not in a strong bargaining position but your reliability, loyalty etc should be worth something to him, it just depends on whether it's €9.50 per hour or more. Good luck, good employees are hard to come by, cheap ones are not.

Hardoneby

All of your comments are much appreciated. Thank you.

wonski

Even if you don't get a payrise you could ask for changing your job title to deli supervisor. This would open more options for you in the future.

You only work 20-30hrs/week so small raise wouldn't ruin their business (I know it isn't as simple for them, but may be worth pointing out).

Let us know what happens next.

davo10

wonski wrote: »

Even if you don't get a payrise you could ask for changing your job title to deli supervisor. This would open more options for you in the future.

You only work 20-30hrs/week so small raise wouldn't ruin their business (I know it isn't as simple for them, but may be worth pointing out).

Let us know what happens next.

A raise from €9:30 to €11 will cost the employer ~€2500 including employers Prsi

gavmcg92

Hardoneby wrote: »

All of your comments are much appreciated. Thank you.

Lets us know when you hear back from your employer. Definitely think you deserve a raise in your hourly rate.

Tarzana

Iseedeadpixels wrote: »

From what you have said about your responsibilities, you should be applying for trainee managers jobs you have the experience.

Totally agree. Or supply chain positions.

Birdie086

I manage a very busy, profitable coffee shop. When you work out my hourly rate I don't get much than what you are currently on. The industry pays very poorly.

However, because I have the job title 'manger' I am clocking up experience which will help with future career moves.

You have a very good case you to employer for at least deli supervisor/manager job title and you can use this to your advantage in the future.

max life

Any update???

plasteritup

I felt I was on less money than I should be,other staff were pushing me to go after more money I felt time wasn't right,I waited until I had the chipstack,ie been there 6 months well settled,liked by the client and other staff,made few changes to things which worked well,knew how much it cost and the hassle of was to get people trained up,OK bang I want more money bla bla bla,company couldn't give it in pay rise,but ended up getting 50 a week tax free in expenses,everywhere is different but build a case present it properly and you'd be surprised,btw if there going to sack u for asking look for something else,employees that have a sense of worth are worth it

fleet

Not to be harsh, but you are doing an unskilled job that anyone could be trained to do in a week.
It is for that reason alone that you do not deserve anything more.

You need to specialize or up skill.

(a)Go back to education
or
(b)Find a better job.

The good news is that you can get an education at night while still keeping your job, and also the jobs market is picking up.

bumper234

fleet wrote: »

Not to be harsh, but you are doing an unskilled job that anyone could be trained to do in a week.
It is for that reason alone that you do not deserve anything more.

You need to specialize or up skill.

(a)Go back to education
or
(b)Find a better job.

The good news is that you can get an education at night while still keeping your job, and also the jobs market is picking up.

12 years experience, probably a good relationship with regular customers, takes in and sorts deliveries. Not something you would get from a new hire and not something you take for granted. To say op doesn't deserve a payrise is a bit narrow minded imo.

fleet

bumper234 wrote: »

12 years experience, probably a good relationship with regular customers, takes in and sorts deliveries. Not something you would get from a new hire and not something you take for granted. To say op doesn't deserve a payrise is a bit narrow minded imo.

Good relationship with suppliers and customers is all well and good, but unless he's the one ordering the stock or setting prices then it really counts for very little.

The OP doesn't deserve a pay rise just because of how long he's doing the same job. However, if he's there 12 years and trusted then he should managing another location or looking to move company to get that experience.

Or go back to college. Fetac, uni, whatever.
Personally I'm an old fart and being paid buttons again... because I just finished college again and got sent abroad on graduate programme to train. It's about how you position yourself longterm.

Elmo

Regardless of the menial job that you do you should expect some pay rises and/or recognition

If the OP is saying they went in at 9.50 ph in 2002 then it's possible that the op was at the highest rate of pay for that job at the beginning and possible shouldn't have expected a pay rise in the first 5 years, after that I'd have expected something between 07 and 08 and little between 09 and now, with a possible increase in the next year.

The position is low paid by its nature but an increase to 10 euro would help, and you shouldn't be afraid to ask and the employer shouldn't be afraid to just say no.

Wanderer2010

OP, i think you need either more ambition or else look around for management positions in the deli category. If you stayed that long in the same position on such crap wages, then you were obviously happy enough to plod along and therefore your higher-ups had no incentive to change the situation because YOU had no incentive. Maybe now its time to start wanting a bit more and with all your experience you are surely in a great position to apply for deli supervisor/manager jobs, of which I have seen quite a few of lately on job websites.

Best of luck!