Cork v Tipperary AI Semi Final

Grats

There is a second semi final coming up! Cork v Tipp should be a cracker. I fancy Cork to win. The experience of playing in Croke Park on three occasions should stand to them. They look like a more settled and confident team. Tipp have played most of their games in Thurles. They haven't played in Croke Park since the Lar debacle in 2012.

The Tipp backs were never tested against Dublin. Cork have the forwards to show up the obvious flaws there and take advantage of it. It's no great surprise that E O'Shea is so anxious to get Paul Curran back and to have O'Mahony fit again. If Noël MCGrath and Corbett disappear as they did against Dublin Tipp won't survive.

Cork for me.

savannahkat

Tipp are an enigma even to themselves. They can blow hot or cold. When hot they are near unbeatable when cold they are very beatable. If they concentrate they are well capable of beating Cork but will they or can they, no one knows. Overall they have the more skillful players and enough of them to win but there is that question mark hanging over them and nothing less than beating Kilkenny in the final will remove it. The winners of Kilkenny v Limerick will be known by the time this game is played and if it is Limerick you can bet your life both Cork and Tipp will approach this game in an entirely different light .I am not saying either would be afraid of Kilkenny, they are not, and before any Limerick fan takes offense it is not meant to be offensive but until Limerick actually win the All Ireland, it is the way it is.

citykat

Cork for me.

Think they have come on a ton since even last year. They've found a few more forwards and now have some real options off the bench if necessary. Think Walsh's form in midfield has been critical. Great in the air but also has the fitness to go box to box. Backs look a more solid unit this year also. Ellis has settled well in at centre back.

As for Tipp, they're solid enough at the back even if they're still trying to nail down full and centre back. Think they're going to struggle at midfield no matter who they try. For Tipp to entertain any thoughts of winning, they have to get a full shift out of their forwards. No worries about Bonner Maher or Bubbles for me. Can't say the same about the rest. Callinan on O'Neill will be interesting. O'Neill is going to flake as is his wont. Will Seamie shirk? Ditto McGrath, Corbett. If Tipp withdraw one of their forwards, Cork will leave him be. This'll limit any goal scoring opportunities for Tipp. I think this'll be O'Shea's last game in charge of Tipp.

menace404

citykat wrote: »

Cork for me.

Think they have come on a ton since even last year. They've found a few more forwards and now have some real options off the bench if necessary. Think Walsh's form in midfield has been critical. Great in the air but also has the fitness to go box to box. Backs look a more solid unit this year also. Ellis has settled well in at centre back.

As for Tipp, they're solid enough at the back even if they're still trying to nail down full and centre back. Think they're going to struggle at midfield no matter who they try. For Tipp to entertain any thoughts of winning, they have to get a full shift out of their forwards. No worries about Bonner Maher or Bubbles for me. Can't say the same about the rest. Callinan on O'Neill will be interesting. O'Neill is going to flake as is his wont. Will Seamie shirk? Ditto McGrath, Corbett. If Tipp withdraw one of their forwards, Cork will leave him be. This'll limit any goal scoring opportunities for Tipp. I think this'll be O'Shea's last game in charge of Tipp.

I see Stevie Mc on Callanan. He has been the best corner back in the competition so far. A mile ahead of everyone else and hasn't put a single foot wrong.
This game will be close to a sell out I would say also. I may be wrong but its the first time these two powerhouses have ever met in an AI semi. Cracker in store and way too close to call.

Rightwing

savannahkat wrote: »

Tipp are an enigma even to themselves. They can blow hot or cold. When hot they are near unbeatable when cold they are very beatable. If they concentrate they are well capable of beating Cork but will they or can they, no one knows. Overall they have the more skillful players and enough of them to win but there is that question mark hanging over them and nothing less than beating Kilkenny in the final will remove it. The winners of Kilkenny v Limerick will be known by the time this game is played and if it is Limerick you can bet your life both Cork and Tipp will approach this game in an entirely different light .I am not saying either would be afraid of Kilkenny, they are not, and before any Limerick fan takes offense it is not meant to be offensive but until Limerick actually win the All Ireland, it is the way it is.

Seriously, they won't.

zetecescort

Hard game to call and I'll obviously tip Cork but key for me will be our start. Slow to get going most days for some reason and who knows what we'll be like after a 5 week break.

buck65

Cork are so much the better team but I still think they will lose, JBM is not the man on the sideline to turn things around if they are struggling.

Rightwing

buck65 wrote: »

Cork are so much the better team but I still think they will lose, JBM is not the man on the sideline to turn things around if they are struggling.

If they are so much the better team, I fail to see how they will be struggling ?

citykat

Rightwing wrote: »

If they are so much the better team, I fail to see how they will be struggling ?

+1. I've reread the original post and still don't get it.

Grats

One semi final down, one left to come. I originally went for Cork and after watching Limerick turn in a great display against Kilkenny I stick with Cork. The Rebels disposed of Limerick handy enough who had beaten Tipp in Thurles. Both Cork and Tipp will be taken out of the comforts of their home grounds for this match. Cork will have the experience of playing in Croke Park on three occasions last year while Tipp won't have great memories of their last game there when their tactic of having Lar chase around after his opponent blew up in their faces.

Too many of the Tipp forwards disappear when put under pressure, their midfield is not settled and their backs are suspect. Cork are back of make amends for last year. Too many teams got caught up with the Clare style last year and lost sight of their own game. It's back to basic simple hurling now. Should be a close match but I think Cork will win out in the end.

Warper

Pa Horgan looks like he will be out for this - massive loss. That said i still would expect them to beat Tipp who have been poor the last 3 years

Metropolitan

Warper wrote: »

Pa Horgan looks like he will be out for this - massive loss. That said i still would expect them to beat Tipp who have been poor the last 3 years

Pa Cronin. Big difference.

Rightwing

Metropolitan wrote: »

Pa Cronin. Big difference.

Absolutely, take out Horgan and cork are seriously limited. The other chap is making up the numbers.

Amprodude

Rightwing wrote: »

Absolutely, take out Horgan and cork are seriously limited. The other chap is making up the numbers.

Will you go away with yourself. Hadnedy, Cooper, Cadogan, O Sullivan are top class and would be on most teams.

Meursault

Pa Cronin is still a loss imo.

I think last year's experience and the new additions this year will swing it for cork though

I am worried about the 5 week break though. we can't start slowly in this match.

robbiezero

menace404 wrote: »

I see Stevie Mc on Callanan. He has been the best corner back in the competition so far. A mile ahead of everyone else and hasn't put a single foot wrong.

He hasn't been a mile ahead of everyone else, there is plenty corner backs having a very good season. He has played quite well no doubt, but Seamus Hickey has been the best corner back in the country so far.

dastardly00

Warper wrote: »

Pa Horgan looks like he will be out for this - massive loss.

You have probably given anybody from Cork a massive heart attack when they read your post!!

robbiezero

I can't see why this is such a 50-50 game. A repeat of Corks performance in the Munster final, you would imagine would see them winning, whereas I think Tipp will have to find a level that they have not found in 4 years in order to beat Cork on Sunday. They could well do that and have improved with every game in this years championship, but they are certainly the underdogs for me.

IrishAlice

Fully expect Cork to win this one.

They're playing really well as a team this year and have gelled nicely. The new additions to the team like Aidan Walsh have definitely made a difference.

The were slow out of the blocks in the first Waterford game but seem to have improved in that regard.

Looking forward to a good game!

adrian522

I agree, I'd take Cork to win this, Tipp will keep it close for a time but I'd say Cork by 4 or 5 points in the end.

Rightwing

Tipp have the hurlers to beat the pick of Cork/KK. Question is, can they deliver on the day. I think they will.

Martin567

Rightwing wrote: »

Tipp have the hurlers to beat the pick of Cork/KK.

They most definitely do not!!!!

Grats

Rightwing wrote: »

Tipp have the hurlers to beat the pick of Cork/KK. Question is, can they deliver on the day. I think they will.

Really, but not Limerick! Puzzling to say the least. Perhaps you might unravel it a bit for us?

Hotfail.com

dastardly00 wrote: »

You have probably given anybody from Cork a massive heart attack when they read your post!!

You don't know the half of it! :pac:

Rightwing

Grats wrote: »

Really, but not Limerick! Puzzling to say the least. Perhaps you might unravel it a bit for us?

LK hit them with a sucker punch. The winners of this match must not make the same mistake as LK made, by getting into a dogfight with KK.

Grats

Rightwing wrote: »

LK hit them with a sucker punch. The winners of this match must not make the same mistake as LK made, by getting into a dogfight with KK.

Even more puzzling now! You posted that Tipp would beat the pick of KK and Cork! Now you're saying the "winners" of this match, which does suggest Cork on their own could beat Tipp! And you then suggest Kilkenny, on their own, could beat the "winners", Tipp OR Cork!

Figsy32

Rightwing wrote: »

LK hit them with a sucker punch. The winners of this match must not make the same mistake as LK made, by getting into a dogfight with KK.

And what about the year before that? I think you're horribly overrating the Tipp lads if you seriously think they're more talented than the pick of Cork and Kilkenny.

Limerick needed to make it a dogfight. They're physical and a fast free flowing game doesn't suit them. (See the Cork game where Cork's speed through Lehane, Harnedy, Kearney killed them.)

Cork and Tipp will know whichever faces Kilkenny will have to try and move the likes of Tyrell, Delaney and Hogan around rather than hitting long ball on top of them.

Rightwing

I might be overrating Tipp, there's little difference between any of the teams left. Tipp to me look to have the most class, cork the most speed and KK the desire, and ability to bunch and drag teams into a dogfight.

Martin567

I would completely disagree that Tipperary have more class than Kilkenny or Cork. You're obviously entitled to your opinion but my opinion is that that is complete fantasy.

Mountainlad

Bill Cooper is not top class, god almighty. Some dreamers about.

Lehane has been Cork's form forward for me, leaving aside the first day against Waterford. Harnedy next in line, he didn't turn up in that game or against Clare. I don't Pat Horgan's contribution from play is as impressive as he generally gets credit for.

His lack of pace means he finds it hard to get space and he's no goal threat, but when he does have space he's incredible and could score from anywhere. Tipp have several forwards like that too though, and maybe a bit more pace.

Cork are going to need to show a bit more ruthlessness when it comes to going for the jugular. They have several players who can beat their men and creat opportunities for themselves, or overlaps but I see Lehane, Harnedy and the biggest culprit of all Cadogan too content to take their points.

Pa Cronin has been average, I don't see him as that much of a loss only that their forwards outside of Paudi O Sullivan to come in mightn't be as good.


I think where Tipp really need to improve is midfield. That was the big achilles heel for me against Limerick. Shane McGrath played that day and was woeful, but had a very good game v Dublin so that shows some promise although very different proposition on Sunday. Woodlock is also better than Bergin, but not a great hurler all the same. Denis Maher could be a very important sub in this game.

Be interesting to see how Ellis contends with Bonner Maher, definitely his biggest test to date. Even more interesting will be Cork's full back and probably where I'd be leaning towards Tipp winning the game.

Callinan is a different beast this year and his confidence will be well up after recent games since the Limerick match. The one problem he always had was a lack of physicality. He addressed that in the off season and has added bulk to his height.

Would be a big test for Cahalane who has had to contend with playing football as well in recent weeks. Didn't look half as good against Limerick as he had the previous two games, but allowing for an injury their. If Shane O'Neill were to play full back, I think Cork will be conceding the game. Don't understand managers playing corner backs at full backs, it always comes undone. Even Cody showed a bit of naivety putting Murphy on Dowling as an even match up rather than leaving JJ in from the start last weekend.


Bubbles average scoring is 4 points from play per game I'm pretty sure. You've Callinan, Lar Corbett (not as good as a few years ago, but he's undoubtedly a potential danger), Bonner Maher creating chances for these lads (not a great finisher himself though), even Gearoid Ryan has managed a goal himself this year despite spending most of his time out the field.

I do like Cork's forward line, but think Tipp are more of a goal threat and would give them the edge in this game as a result. We saw how important that was on Sunday.

Rightwing

Some posters saying Tipp are rubbish, we'll see on Sunday if that is the case.

Figsy32

Mountainlad wrote: »

Bill Cooper is not top class, god almighty. Some dreamers about.

Lehane has been Cork's form forward for me, leaving aside the first day against Waterford. Harnedy next in line, he didn't turn up in that game or against Clare. I don't Pat Horgan's contribution from play is as impressive as he generally gets credit for.

His lack of pace means he finds it hard to get space and he's no goal threat, but when he does have space he's incredible and could score from anywhere. Tipp have several forwards like that too though, and maybe a bit more pace.

Cork are going to need to show a bit more ruthlessness when it comes to going for the jugular. They have several players who can beat their men and creat opportunities for themselves, or overlaps but I see Lehane, Harnedy and the biggest culprit of all Cadogan too content to take their points.

Pa Cronin has been average, I don't see him as that much of a loss only that their forwards outside of Paudi O Sullivan to come in mightn't be as good.


I think where Tipp really need to improve is midfield. That was the big achilles heel for me against Limerick. Shane McGrath played that day and was woeful, but had a very good game v Dublin so that shows some promise although very different proposition on Sunday. Woodlock is also better than Bergin, but not a great hurler all the same. Denis Maher could be a very important sub in this game.

Be interesting to see how Ellis contends with Bonner Maher, definitely his biggest test to date. Even more interesting will be Cork's full back and probably where I'd be leaning towards Tipp winning the game.

Callinan is a different beast this year and his confidence will be well up after recent games since the Limerick match. The one problem he always had was a lack of physicality. He addressed that in the off season and has added bulk to his height.

Would be a big test for Cahalane who has had to contend with playing football as well in recent weeks. Didn't look half as good against Limerick as he had the previous two games, but allowing for an injury their. If Shane O'Neill were to play full back, I think Cork will be conceding the game. Don't understand managers playing corner backs at full backs, it always comes undone. Even Cody showed a bit of naivety putting Murphy on Dowling as an even match up rather than leaving JJ in from the start last weekend.


Bubbles average scoring is 4 points from play per game I'm pretty sure. You've Callinan, Lar Corbett (not as good as a few years ago, but he's undoubtedly a potential danger), Bonner Maher creating chances for these lads (not a great finisher himself though), even Gearoid Ryan has managed a goal himself this year despite spending most of his time out the field.

I do like Cork's forward line, but think Tipp are more of a goal threat and would give them the edge in this game as a result. We saw how important that was on Sunday.

Good post, highlights my fears as I said on the Cork thread. You're very much preaching to the choir about the likes of Lehane and Cadogan going for more goals. Few points I'd disagree with though.

In fairness to Cronin, he's quietly improved in every game so far this year. As I see it, he's a loss for a couple reasons. First, his ability to win pickouts coming from deep. He did this very well against Limerick and Clare. Secondly it allows us to use Paudie as an impact sub which might be for the best this year. Playing Paudie inside also means we have three similar players in the full forward line. Variety is good and I'd fancy Cronin in the air against any of the potential Tipp full backs.

What to do about Bonnar is an interesting question for JBM. Do you leave Ellis there or put the more athletic Joyce to man mark him and hope he does the type of job he did on Hannon in the Munster final. Brian Murphy did a man-marking job against Tony Kelly last year and while he kept him quiet, it left our full back line so painfully exposed that I can't see us man marking Bonnar. Ellis won't be athletic enough to do that anyway. He'll play in the traditional centre back manner ala Brian Hogan.

Callanan is the key question for Cork IMO. 99% of the time I'm completely against Shane O'Neill playing full back but this is the one situation where I think it may be necessary. I don't think it's too controversial to say that Callanan can appear to be a bit flakey and not liking it when things get a physical. I think O'Neill is the only viable option to hold him. He'll compete on the ground with him, has the bit of nastiness Callanan mightn't like and will hold his own in the air. In my view Callanan will be too clever and have to much hurling for Cahalane. O'Neill is the least worst option in my view.

What I really hope happens is that Noel McGrath comes out the pitch leaving only Callanan and Corbett inside. This would allow Cork to release Ellis to sweeper, out Cahalane to wing back and Joyce to Bonnar.

The closer we're getting to the game, the more worried I'm getting as I think the Cork backs match up poorly to the type of player they're each likely to face if Tipp play 15 on 15.

I think predictions are a bit fruitless at the moment until we see both teams since there's a bit of uncertainty on both sides.

Figsy32

Rightwing wrote: »

Some posters saying Tipp are rubbish, we'll see on Sunday if that is the case.

Sorry, where has anybody said Tipp are rubbish?

Mountainlad

I'd disagree on Shane O'Neill just on account of height. I think you can't really compare Callinan's physicality of recent years to this year.

Take Richie McCarthy for example. He'll be some people's choice for full back all star. I recall 5 balls that Callinan won (he scored 0-2 from play, and one of them I can't remember). From that came 1-03. One of thos was a free that McCarthy had to give away to stop a goal. The other came from him shrugging off McCarthy only to take forever to hit the ball, half blocked and when he got the ball back played it across to Bubbles who stuck it over.

One was his point. The other then should have been a goal. Again he won a ball and shrugged off McCarthy but then stood up to hit it and took a golf swing. McCarthy was back on his feet and had him hooked. In my eyes, it should have been 2-04 rather than 1-04 that came from Callinan's involvement in the game.

That was a big physical test and he more than broke even. I think O'Neill could do a job on him corner back, much like I think Noel Connors and Paul Murphy could definitely manage damage limitation, maybe give him 0-3 points. But full forward is a totally different position.

O'Neill destroyed Dowling for pretty much the whole first half, but he got caught badly twice (once in each half) where Dowling should have punished with two goals. I think Callanan would do that if he was afforded the same opportunity and he would get them because he has 3 inches on Dowling (or 4 on O'Neill).

I think O'Neill is a great corner back, but corner backs don't make good full backs in my experience (examples this year, O'Neill caught in front v Dowling first half of Munster Final, Tom Condon caught in front of Paudie Sull in same game, Paul Murphy losing out to clean catch by Dowling last Sunday + the first time I really noticed it, Noel Connors on Eoin Kelly in the 2011 Munster Final.)

Figsy32

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'd disagree on Shane O'Neill just on account of height. I think you can't really compare Callinan's physicality of recent years to this year.

Take Richie McCarthy for example. He'll be some people's choice for full back all star. I recall 5 balls that Callinan won (he scored 0-2 from play, and one of them I can't remember). From that came 1-03. One of thos was a free that McCarthy had to give away to stop a goal. The other came from him shrugging off McCarthy only to take forever to hit the ball, half blocked and when he got the ball back played it across to Bubbles who stuck it over.

One was his point. The other then should have been a goal. Again he won a ball and shrugged off McCarthy but then stood up to hit it and took a golf swing. McCarthy was back on his feet and had him hooked. In my eyes, it should have been 2-04 rather than 1-04 that came from Callinan's involvement in the game.

That was a big physical test and he more than broke even. I think O'Neill could do a job on him corner back, much like I think Noel Connors and Paul Murphy could definitely manage damage limitation, maybe give him 0-3 points. But full forward is a totally different position.

O'Neill destroyed Dowling for pretty much the whole first half, but he got caught badly twice (once in each half) where Dowling should have punished with two goals. I think Callanan would do that if he was afforded the same opportunity and he would get them because he has 3 inches on Dowling (or 4 on O'Neill).

I think O'Neill is a great corner back, but corner backs don't make good full backs in my experience (examples this year, O'Neill caught in front v Dowling first half of Munster Final, Tom Condon caught in front of Paudie Sull in same game, Paul Murphy losing out to clean catch by Dowling last Sunday + the first time I really noticed it, Noel Connors on Eoin Kelly in the 2011 Munster Final.)

We're actually agreeing really except for the fact that I think O'Neill is the least worst option for the match up. It's purely because it's Callanan I'd want him there rather than Cahalane who I don't think has the hurling to compete and I'd be fearing Callanan would be just too cute for him. Like I said, I'm well aware O'Neill isn't a full back but if you give me a choice of him or Cahalane I'll take O'Neill in this particular instance.

It's a moot point really if it ends up with McGrath pulling further out the field really.

McCarthy is superb but it was very noticeable in the Cork-Limerick game that Cronin had him in bother aerially too when he was moved around. Maybe that's a weakness in McCarthy's game or maybe Cronin was just on form. (Cronin won at least 3 puck outs pulling to Nash's left and coming from deep, off loaded for definitely one, maybe two scores.)

Mountainlad

Figsy32 wrote: »

McCarthy is superb but it was very noticeable in the Cork-Limerick game that Cronin had him in bother aerially too when he was moved around. Maybe that's a weakness in McCarthy's game or maybe Cronin was just on form. (Cronin won at least 3 puck outs pulling to Nash's left and coming from deep, off loaded for definitely one, maybe two scores.)

You may well be right, but it will be the only option to play Cahalane in there if Tipp go 15 v 15.

Think you're right about McCarthy too, don't think he's great under a high ball against a big man.

Amprodude

Rightwing wrote: »

Tipp have the hurlers to beat the pick of Cork/KK. Question is, can they deliver on the day. I think they will.

Its ironic you want Cork/KK beaten by your neighbours seeming the unreal Limerick team couldnt beat either.

Amprodude

Rightwing wrote: »

LK hit them with a sucker punch. The winners of this match must not make the same mistake as LK made, by getting into a dogfight with KK.

Laughing hard at that. The reality is Limerick came out 2nd best in all departments. Until they win AI they arent going to be considered a serious threat. A bit like what New Zealand rugby team think of Ireland funny enough. Until they can deliver and beat the big teams then they are not going to be treated seriously.

Rightwing

Amprodude wrote: »

Its ironic you want Cork/KK beaten by your neighbours seeming the unreal Limerick team couldnt beat either.

There is a subtle difference between wanting and expecting.

Hope this helps.

Amprodude

Rightwing wrote: »

There is a subtle difference between wanting and expecting.

Hope this helps.

Your bitterness is joyful to see.

Rightwing

Amprodude wrote: »

Your bitterness is joyful to see.

On the contrary I'm for the best team to win it out. If I had to pick a winner I'd like to see, I'd go for cork seeing as they haven't won it for a while.

Now, that doesn't mean I expect them to win.

DoctaDee

Hey Lads, please don't spoil the thread for others with petty sniping/low level trolling. Thanks

IanOBo

is traffic supposed to be dreadful this weekend. Hearing horror stories from Limerick fans about last weekend, telling us to leave home crazy early.

zetecescort

IanOBo wrote: »

is traffic supposed to be dreadful this weekend. Hearing horror stories from Limerick fans about last weekend, telling us to leave home crazy early.

Will be heavy with Cork and Tipp travelling the same road.

Rightwing

And the attendance will be significantly above last weekend.

Realt Dearg Sec

zetecescort wrote: »

Will be heavy with Cork and Tipp travelling the same road.

Even the Kilkenny fans coming up for the minor match encountered bad traffic last week, limerick with way bigger numbers must have been a nightmare. Going from cork if you're going to catch the minor you'd nearly want to leave by eight in the morning.

Fireball07

I personally Cork will win, by around 5 points. They have some serious firepower and a great midfield.


Tipp are good, and have some very good hurlers, but so do Cork.

Cork's main problem imo is full-back, as has been mentioned. O'Neill is not a full-back and an in-form Callanan will score against him. However... Callanan isn't always in-form. Bonner Maher will test Ellis too.

But it's not as if Tipp have had it all their way at full-back either, and I reckon Paudie O'Sullivan starting will be a boost to Cork, serious player.



And I just can't help thinking back to the Limerick-Tipp game... when it came to the winning of the game, Limerick won a lot of breaking ball in the middle third, Tipp hit some bad wides, but Limerick got their scores. Cork have a class duo in midfield, who will take some beating.

Grats

Cork still hopeful of having Cronin. He hasn't played well for a long while now so hard to know if he would be such a major loss. Having said that, have they anybody to replace him? Paudie O'Sullivan hasn't much hurling done so far.

Dayor Knight

Rightwing wrote: »

Some posters saying Tipp are rubbish, we'll see on Sunday if that is the case.

Most of them from Kilkenny, I'd say.

adrian522

I don't think they are rubbish but they haven't been overly brilliant the last 2 years have they?

They have lost matches they should have won and when matches are close and you are looking for leaders to step up Tipp have invariably lost those games. Granted the Galway game was a good performance but I just wouldn't be sure about them when the pressure comes on.

Corcaigh84

I've been watching some clips of old Cork / Tipp matches, and interviews with the players for old times sake, you can't bate Cork and Tipp.

I expect a thunderous atmosphere on Sunday, I'm already getting the nerves. Some classic quotes on today's Examiner:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/donkeys-dont-win-derbies-ndash-when-animosity-crosses-line-279462.html
http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/hurling/words-reveal-true-depth-of-rivalry-279454.html