Hooked by Kevin Markham

NFH

This is a major stab in the dark but does anyone know if I could get a copy of this in Galway, Mayo, Sligo or Donegal Heading from Galway to Donegal tomorrow and was hoping there was somewhere on the way I could pick it up, can't find a copy in Galway. I know I can order it online but was hoping to have it for this weekend. Cheers.

FixdePitchmark

I'd say you are in the right place here - Answer to follow.

John Divney

Just wanted to say finally read it and really enjoyed it, well done Kevin.

NFH

Haha!, I Google'd every bookstore from Galway to Donegal, had a list of 10 numbers to call and the last one I tried had a copy of the revised edition, happy days!

John Divney wrote: »

Just wanted to say finally read it and really enjoyed it, well done Kevin.

Ya, awesome book! That and Kevins flickr account have become my first port of call for deciding on new courses to play.

FixdePitchmark

NFH wrote: »

Haha!, I Google'd every bookstore from Galway to Donegal, had a list of 10 numbers to call and the last one I tried had a copy of the revised edition, happy days!



Ya, awesome book! That and Kevins flickr account have become my first port of call for deciding on new courses to play.

Lost 2 copies - hard to believe. But did.

mike12

I find it super i seem to rate every course almost the same as Kevin so if he says it is good i know i'm going to enjoy it.

FixdePitchmark

mike12 wrote: »

I find it super i seem to rate every course almost the same as Kevin so if he says it is good i know i'm going to enjoy it.

Agree - only one I didn't see was Carne - but got it at the wrong time and tees.

So maybe next time.

John Divney

There must be a statue of him outside Scrabo at this stage. Free pints at least lol

mike12

i sort of feel bad the copy i bought was £2.99 in a book shop in the outlets in banbridge.

Kevinmarkham

NFH wrote: »

Haha!, I Google'd every bookstore from Galway to Donegal, had a list of 10 numbers to call and the last one I tried had a copy of the revised edition, happy days!

You just need to check the local charity shop... aka the outlets in Banbridge

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Lost 2 copies - hard to believe. But did.

It's the way you hit that 6 iron, Fix. I know Carne disappointed you. It certainly wasn't the same off the front tees. Better luck next year - they'll push the tees well back, I'm sure.

John Divney wrote: »

There must be a statue of him outside Scrabo at this stage. Free pints at least lol

Oddly, no! I was told by a guy in Balmoral that everyone thinks I'm mad. "No one likes Scrabo," he said, "not even the members of Scrabo."

FixdePitchmark

I think it was the greens too Kev.

Class back 9.

In fairness , you haven't put me wrong from - Wexford , Clare, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow, Waterford, Laois.

So the two books were a great investment. Not just bull****ting there.

NFH

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

You just need to check the local charity shop... aka the outlets in Banbridge

Haha, will give it a look. Now that I have you attention Mr. Markham, I have a bone to pick with ya

Firstly, fantastic book, been playing golf for 8 years now and your book is the first golf related book I've been persuaded to buy (at least it will be tomorrow anyway).

However, reading a friends copy I noticed that you have scored Portumna (89) and Druids Glen (89) the same. Now I've played both courses a few times, and as you have scored other courses like Ballybunion in the mid 90's, I think 89 is a fair score for Druids Glen. But in my opinion, if Druids Gleb is 89 then Portumna can only be 79 at best. Don't get me wrong, Portumna is a great courses, some really interesting holes, lined very nicely with trees, good greens and fairways, and OK bunkers. But in my opinion Druids Glen is just different class, almost everything is top quality, some of the holes Augusta would be happy with and the overall golfing experience is just amazing. Just my opinion, apart from that I agree with most of your assessments.

stooge

NFH wrote: »

.......I think 89 is a fair score for Druids Glen. But in my opinion, if Druids Gleb is 89 then Portumna can only be 79 at best. Don't get me wrong, Portumna is a great courses, some really interesting holes, lined very nicely with trees, good greens and fairways, and OK bunkers. But in my opinion Druids Glen is just different class, almost everything is top quality, some of the holes Augusta would be happy with and the overall golfing experience is just amazing. Just my opinion, apart from that I agree with most of your assessments.

agree, played both and while Portumna is good it is cettainly not at the level of Druids.

FixdePitchmark

NFH wrote: »

Haha, will give it a look. Now that I have you attention Mr. Markham, I have a bone to pick with ya

Firstly, fantastic book, been playing golf for 8 years now and your book is the first golf related book I've been persuaded to buy (at least it will be tomorrow anyway).

However, reading a friends copy I noticed that you have scored Portumna (89) and Druids Glen (89) the same. Now I've played both courses a few times, and as you have scored other courses like Ballybunion in the mid 90's, I think 89 is a fair score for Druids Glen. But in my opinion, if Druids Gleb is 89 then Portumna can only be 79 at best. Don't get me wrong, Portumna is a great courses, some really interesting holes, lined very nicely with trees, good greens and fairways, and OK bunkers. But in my opinion Druids Glen is just different class, almost everything is top quality, some of the holes Augusta would be happy with and the overall golfing experience is just amazing. Just my opinion, apart from that I agree with most of your assessments.

Of course it is subjective - but on a subjective topic , he had to come up with a marking scheme and it worked very well (IMO).

Kevin's book was about playing every course - without Kevin's book - there is no way I would have played some of the course I played. He was looking at the great courses we don't see or hear of. I'd look at the book and if it was near the 80 - that will do for me versus the 65 course.

An example were this saved me was - when organising outings for societies - I wouldn't know what I was looking at - course wise in a certain county.

At the end of the day - there is a value for money mark - Druids Glen , is cheaper now - but it is not a course you can go down and play every day of the week. How much is a round in Portumna ?

Kevin , can speak for himself - but the price of a round of golf was changing so much, this made - this part of the marking fairly influential / timely. In that, after 6 months of publishing some course would go up in vfm . This would changing marking a bit.

People think - vfm , should not come into marking , but in my wallet it should.

It is impossible really - but it is a great stab at it.

I think Portumna is class - I think druids glen is class.

If Portumna (20 euro) was next to Druids Glen (60 euro) - Which would I play more. Answer - I'd be in Portumna every 2nd week.

But the last time I played Druids Glen , it was rough around the edges - for what you would expect. Was Spring - but bunkers poor - finish poor

I think - in Ireland we have lost a bit of reality , in relation to what a golf course should be like.

There are 100s of course in Ireland you can play for 20 quid or a little more , and have a great round of golf.

Greenore
Blackush
Portarlington
Arklow
West Waterford
Strandhill
Corballis
Wicklow


Goes on and on.

NFH

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Of course it is subjective - but on a subjective topic , he had to come up with a marking scheme and it worked very well (IMO).

Kevin's book was about playing every course - without Kevin's book - there is no way I would have played some of the course I played. He was looking at the great courses we don't see or hear of. I'd look at the book and if it was near the 80 - that will do for me versus the 65 course.

An example were this saved me was - when organising outings for societies - I wouldn't know what I was looking at - course wise in a certain county.

At the end of the day - there is a value for money mark - Druids Glen , is cheaper now - but it is not a course you can go down and play every day of the week. How much is a round in Portumna ?

Kevin , can speak for himself - but the price of a round of golf was changing so much, this made - this part of the marking fairly influential / timely. In that, after 6 months of publishing some course would go up in vfm . This would changing marking a bit.

People think - vfm , should not come into marking , but in my wallet it should.

It is impossible really - but it is a great stab at it.

I think Portumna is class - I think druids glen is class.

If Portumna (20 euro) was next to Druids Glen (60 euro) - Which would I play more. Answer - I'd be in Portumna every 2nd week.

But the last time I played Druids Glen , it was rough around the edges - for what you would expect. Was Spring - but bunkers poor - finish poor

I think - in Ireland we have lost a bit of reality , in relation to what a golf course should be like.

There are 100s of course in Ireland you can play for 20 quid or a little more , and have a great round of golf.

Greenore
Blackush
Portarlington
Arklow
West Waterford
Strandhill
Corballis
Wicklow


Goes on and on.

Oh of course ya, I am by no means criticising the book and I realise that an exact and fair comparison method for over 300 courses is almost impossible especially when you factor in price etc. It's just his mark for one particular course that I myself think is too high. And as far as price, I would almost think that that is separate to giving an overall mark for a course. Like Lahinch or Ballybunion during the summer are simply just out of my price range but I still would happily mark them in the mid 90's because the courses itself is so good. As for Portumna, 20 euro is great value but I would gladly pay 60 or 70 for Druids Glen as I think that is great valve for what you are getting there, and during the off peak months its as low as 30 or 40 which is a steal. I think its as simple as this for me, when I play Portumna the experience is that of a good quality course that is definitely above average but you would find many courses of a similar level like it in Ireland, whereas when I play Druids Glen its a real special parkland course and there is more of a sense of an event every time you play it.

Tones69

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

I think it was the greens too Kev.

Class back 9.

In fairness , you haven't put me wrong from - Wexford , Clare, Louth, Kildare, Wicklow, Waterford, Laois.

So the two books were a great investment. Not just bull****ting there.

You skipping carlow on purpose fix

FixdePitchmark

Tones69 wrote: »

You skipping carlow on purpose fix

No - know every course in Carlow backwards - not that hard.

Nice people - humble understated - salt of the earth - but an over zealous love of Nissan Micra's with wings on the back.

My favourite course in Carlow is the Athy par 3.

Once asked a lad from Carlow - who are the most famous people from Carlow

after using Google

1) Richie Kavanagh
2) Kathryn Thomas
3) Michael Flatley's Mother

Not a word of a lie.

Btw - I reckon you could get across carlow in 40 drives - me 38.

But you would be faster - ball speed wise.

Tones69

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

No - know every course in Carlow backwards - not that hard.

Nice people - humble understated - salt of the earth - but an over zealous love of Nissan Micra's with wings on the back.

My favourite course in Carlow is the Athy par 3.

Once asked a lad from Carlow - who are the most famous people from Carlow

after using Google

1) Richie Kavanagh
2) Kathryn Thomas
3) Michael Flatley's Mother

Not a word of a lie.

Btw - I reckon you could get across carlow in 40 drives - me 38.

But you would be faster - ball speed wise.

Okaaaaaaaay

Tones69

And athy isnt in county carlow either

blackwhite

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Once asked a lad from Carlow - who are the most famous people from Carlow

after using Google

1) Richie Kavanagh
2) Kathryn Thomas
3) Michael Flatley's Mother

Not a word of a lie.

Sean O'Brien is coming for you :pac:

FixdePitchmark

Sorry - he said the tank too. (lol)

I think Tones is 5th.

thewobbler

Like many, I rely heavily on Hooked for my travels. It's a brilliant guide and I rarely dissent from, let alone disagree with its assessments.

But an earlier poster did make me smile with his comments on Scrabo as I was thinking the same thing when I heard the Kevin on the Last Word during the week.

I've yet to play Scrabo, but I do have this experience of it. I meet a former colleague a few times a year when we play a random course or two. He was a childhood member of Scrabo, and is the most accommodating and civil of partners, and we are running out of new options in greater Belfast. But he has told me we will never play Scrabo, he hates it that much.

I will though venture there soon in other company.

Kevinmarkham

NFH wrote: »

Haha, will give it a look. Now that I have you attention Mr. Markham, I have a bone to pick with ya

However, reading a friends copy I noticed that you have scored Portumna (89) and Druids Glen (89) the same. Now I've played both courses a few times, and as you have scored other courses like Ballybunion in the mid 90's, I think 89 is a fair score for Druids Glen. But in my opinion, if Druids Gleb is 89 then Portumna can only be 79 at best. Don't get me wrong, Portumna is a great courses, some really interesting holes, lined very nicely with trees, good greens and fairways, and OK bunkers. But in my opinion Druids Glen is just different class, almost everything is top quality, some of the holes Augusta would be happy with and the overall golfing experience is just amazing. Just my opinion, apart from that I agree with most of your assessments.

This is not a cop out - I swear - but you read the 1st edition. In the 2nd edition I had upped Druid's Glen to 92. Portumna remained on 89.

However, it does come down to the scoring system in part, because I would play Druid's ahead of Portumna most days. It's a superior course with modern design. Portumna goes back to 1913, so it is quite different.

That said, I have always felt the three par fives at Druid's Glen were the weakest holes. It is in my top two parkland courses, but if they had the K Club's par fives it would be out of sight as the best in Ireland.

thewobbler wrote: »

But an earlier poster did make me smile with his comments on Scrabo as I was thinking the same thing when I heard the Kevin on the Last Word during the week.

I've yet to play Scrabo, but I do have this experience of it. I meet a former colleague a few times a year when we play a random course or two. He was a childhood member of Scrabo, and is the most accommodating and civil of partners, and we are running out of new options in greater Belfast. But he has told me we will never play Scrabo, he hates it that much.

I will though venture there soon in other company.

Trust me, I've taken abuse over Portmarnock, Knightsbrook, Rathcore - to name three - but Scrabo is the one that causes the most heated discussion... assuming, that is, you have played it. From what I can gather that is not a lot of people. You don't go there for fine and fancy golf - it's hardcore hilltop, gorse-drenched stuff, with unpredictable bounces and basic greens. I've just never had so much fun on a golf course.

Kevinmarkham

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Agree - only one I didn't see was Carne - but got it at the wrong time and tees.

So maybe next time.

Fix,
Pick up the current issue of Golf World (Scott on the front) - there's a six page article on Carne that might help you reconsider. In the meantime, here's one of the holes you didn't get to play:

FixdePitchmark

Kevin - I think it was the hangover.

Had 35 points with two scratches to finish - maybe it was 34 ? - but played very well at times.

I know I'll like with time , it is a full golf course version of Corballis and is right up my street. I think when you are up against Enniscrone with me - it is hard. I just love Enniscrone so much.

We are spoilt in this country with the standard of golf course - and lucky for me - I'm spoilt more than most - except you.

DuckSlice

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Agree - only one I didn't see was Carne - but got it at the wrong time and tees.

So maybe next time.

I've played carne off the back tees and my god is it a test! Play there 3/4 times a year as it's only an hour from me. You should try get there again soon, the new 9 are a serious test!

NFH

Kevinmarkham wrote: »

This is not a cop out - I swear - but you read the 1st edition. In the 2nd edition I had upped Druid's Glen to 92. Portumna remained on 89.

However, it does come down to the scoring system in part, because I would play Druid's ahead of Portumna most days. It's a superior course with modern design. Portumna goes back to 1913, so it is quite different.

That said, I have always felt the three par fives at Druid's Glen were the weakest holes. It is in my top two parkland courses, but if they had the K Club's par fives it would be out of sight as the best in Ireland.

Haha, just saw this in the new edition, 92 for Druids is more like it So you would take the par 5's from the K club but you mark the K Club very harshly, I am assuming that that is because of the crazy expensive green fees though and not because you didn't like the course?

Perhaps a way around the scoring system is to keep the individual scores out of 20 for the green/fairways etc separate from the total score, and let the total score just be up to you?

Sorbet

I know I’m late to the party but received my copy of this excellent book yesterday and thought it worth a bump for others like me who might be unaware of it’s existence.

A fantastic read with fantastic photos. Makes you want to go out and play the courses. Really great resource for all. Got mine from Easons online.

blue note

It's a great companion to golfing in Ireland. If you play a few different courses each year, it's nice to have a quick read of the piece about the course before you play. I'll rarely agree with the hardest / favourite hole on each course, but the description of each course gives you an accurate sense of the place before you get there.

And I quite like disagreeing with the favourite / hardest hole anyway. Sometimes I'll remember the hole he picked as his favourite and it's nice to wonder why when on that tee.

spacecoyote

Yeah, it's been an invaluable tool for many a Boards GS Captain over the years

VW 1

Hadnt heard of it til now, ordered a copy from eason for 17 euro delivered!

willabur

I have it and its probably the book that gets opened the most in my house, brilliant reference

FixdePitchmark

Great book…markings spot on...hit any course near the 80 mark and your in for a joy .

And this can literally be anywhere in the country ..

Kevinmarkham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122559462#Comment_122559462

Thanks for that, Sorbet. Good to know it is still reaching new audiences like yourself and VW 1. It will be out of date for several courses but the majority of courses have changed little.
Enjoy.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122561631#Comment_122561631

It's refreshing to hear that about toughest/favourite hole, blue note. The Favourite hole is completely subjective and I love anything that packs in some degree of drama. As for Toughest, that's more of a challenge… especially as I have a 30-yard draw.

RoadRunner

Came in very handy as a reference when selecting the courses for last years society outings. Well worth having sitting around the house if you're a golfer who likes to play courses other than your home course.

benny79

@Kevinmarkham I have had a few editions, lost a few and gave a few as presents etc 😁 I won my first one from your good self a few years ago (first edition). I say I must have bought 6 r 7 since. Excellent guide for golf and even for courses you know well.

Have you got around to playing Kilkea Castle yet? (in Castledermot). I know on my edition which is probably the one I have kept and talking to you it was closed at the time. Its been open a good few years now. I'd be interested to read you're taught's on it as a member. 😉

a post punk

My brother gave me a loan of his version when I took up golf 10 years ago….. and when I bought my own edition back in 2018 I mark and date every course I play on it now as a good memory to go back on.I'm at the 80 ish courses played now so its great to know there is so much left to discover.The description is always bang on for me and on the cold winters nights you can plan your year ahead in front of the fire⛳️

Kevinmarkham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122581640#Comment_122581640

That's a lot of copies of the book. No wonder the publisher had to do a reprint!

I have been back to Kilkea Castle. It had just re-opened. I've heard it's in excellent shape at the moment.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122583089#Comment_122583089

Always good to know you're thinking of me on cold winter nights… 😉

80 is a great number to get to. What's your favourite so far?

benny79

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584561#Comment_122584561

Well if you do happen to do a new edition again. Let us all know 😉 Yeah its in excellent condition this year. Took a lot of arguing at the agm's to get there though as we basically have to keep telling them what needs to be done 🙄. Its just keeping at that standard. As they seem to fix one problem then let another one slip.. But its like a private course must summer evenings you have the course to yourself! Pure bliss.

But would love to read your views on it.. Your favourite hole, Hardest etc The index 1 is a very usually hole (17th) The 2nd hole actually statistically plays harder.

Beaulieu

Wouldn't play an 18 hole course in Ireland without consulting the bible that is Hooked. Best golf book out there!

bmay529

I used have this and found it very interesting but it has gone missing for some time. I must get a new one but is 2015 the latest revision?

a post punk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122584561#Comment_122584561

Strandhill for me hands down so far although having played the 3 courses at Rossapenna this year they are very close to that aswell.

Sorbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593951#Comment_122593951

I just bought a copy of the 3rd edition from 2021, reprinted 2024.

bmay529

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595238#Comment_122595238

Thanks. Do you mind me asking where and when you bought it? Online, Easons have date as 17Apr 2015 and Amazon also have that plus (second) Revised Edition (2011)

Sorbet

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122595657#Comment_122595657

I got mine online at easons- to be honest I didn’t notice what edition was advertised but the latest was what I received.

Sorbet

Sorry only bought a few weeks ago

Kevinmarkham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122590351#Comment_122590351

Damn straight😉 (But thanks!)

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122593951#Comment_122593951

The final edition was 2017… but it was very similar to the 2015 3rd edition. Basically a reprint with a few tweaks. Unfortunately my publisher was taken over by a larger publisher who has shown little interest in a new edition. I get a 6-monthly report telling me how many copies they have left and it is, literally, 20. When they're gone, they're gone!

RoadRunner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122594068#Comment_122594068

need to play strandhill it seems 🤨

Kevinmarkham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596669#Comment_122596669

The 5th fairway

slave1

Strandhill was a lovely quiet option in the not too distant past, you could easily get out for €30, now all the links think they needs to explode their green fees, I was chatting to a guy who paid €170 last week to play Murvagh and was very disappointed with the "state of the place" and felt robbed

gripcasey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122596405#Comment_122596405

I went looking for my copy of Hooked and I couldnt find it so just re-ordered it. So down to 19 now.😁