Moving to Ireland

didsir

Hey guys,

I've got a few questions about what needs to be done and such before coming from America to live permanently in Ireland. I have a friend who wants to move here from America. Any tips and advice are welcome. Is there a certain amount of money he should have before coming over? What kind of visa will he need to come over here? He wants to do massage therapy and I'm wondering if it would be possible for him to do it here and how that would happen...as in what visa would he have to get and just the general process.

Cheers!

jjbrien

What kind of passport has he?

didsir

jjbrien wrote: »

What kind of passport has he?

Hey there, he doesn't actually have one. It would be a USA passport when he gets it.

ProudDUB

What about getting him to contact the US Embassy in Washington DC, or the nearest consular location to him & find out directly from them, what he needs to do?

didsir

ProudDUB wrote: »

What about getting him to contact the US Embassy in Washington DC, or the nearest consular location to him & find out directly from them, what he needs to do?

Yeah, he's planning on doing that. I'm more curious on the money and college aspect on this side to be honest. any tips/ideas?

ProudDUB

What is he coming here to do? Study to become a massage therapist, or work as a massage therapist?

didsir

ProudDUB wrote: »

What is he coming here to do? Study to become a massage therapist, or work as a massage therapist?

He's working to save up money to study it. Just wondering if it'd be better/cheaper if he were to do it here than over there. Maybe even as a further education course if that's what it comes down too.

wandererz

If it were me, i'd be looking at going to study where massage therapy and that kind of thing is well known or renowned.
I do not think that that place is Ireland.

Lots of Irish youngsters end up studying stuff that doesn't end up getting them jobs, perhaps because education is free for them, and they "need" to go to college because that's whats' expected of them.

Your friend needs to consider job prospects afterwards. There is no reason to move to another country to do something that can be easily achieved at home.

However, something like sports science etc at UCD may be more worthwhile and more of a target to go through all that expense and uprooting of life etc.i nstead of massage therapy.

Your friend needs to consider if he/she will be exposed to international student fees here, the cost of that education and the job prospects afterwards. It certainly will not be great for massage therapy.

Other than that, he/she will need to weigh up study costs (contact any of the colleges/universities), accommodation costs (universities or daft.ie) and living expenses.

Ultimately, i don't believe it will be worthwhile in the long run unless he/she has deep pockets.

But that's simply my (jaded?) opinion of things!

didsir

Thanks for your opinion. Even if you think it may be jaded I know one thing for certain, he's eager to get out of America and come here. I'm not sure which desire is stronger (massage therapy or escape)! Do you know of a specific visa he'd have to get if he decided to study here? Just on the off chance....

jjbrien

didsir wrote: »

Thanks for your opinion. Even if you think it may be jaded I know one thing for certain, he's eager to get out of America and come here. I'm not sure which desire is stronger (massage therapy or escape)! Do you know of a specific visa he'd have to get if he decided to study here? Just on the off chance....

I know that feeling when I was leaving school I could not wait to get out of Ireland headed to Liverpool in the UK as soon as my leaving cert was done. I think hes mad though coming to Ireland. How will he support himself here? Student visa only allows him work 20 hours part time and theres not many part time jobs to be had.

jacksie66

This post has been deleted.

SpaceTime

Basically, it's much like an Irish person moving to the United States.

You are allowed to visit / come on business for up to 90 days under a visa waiver programme. For other purposes (studying etc) or, if you're planning to move here to work you need to apply for a visa and possibly a work permit too.

You'd need to contact the Irish Embassy in Washington DC

https://www.dfa.ie/irish-embassy/USA/

Irish Naturalisation and Immigration Service "INIS" :

http://www.inis.gov.ie

didsir

So, either stick out America and do the course or just save up and work here....I mean no offence when I say, you seem to have a negative view of Ireland (fair enough) which makes your opinion somewhat one sided. Not that I don't thank you for it.

Would England be better or are the same problems going to arise seeing as he's non EU?

monflat

didsir wrote: »

So, either stick out America and do the course or just save up and work here....I mean no offence when I say, you seem to have a negative view of Ireland (fair enough) which makes your opinion somewhat one sided. Not that I don't thank you for it.

Would England be better or are the same problems going to arise seeing as he's non EU?

Massage therapists are ten a penny here. He would have to fund doin the course then build up a business then have a good reputation

Lots and lots of people who had massage therapy business during boom years are not doin it anymore.

Those that are have a good reputation are good at it and have got in with a club.

As suggested already maybe go down the university route. . Expensive thou.

Like to be realistic how many people does he expect to massage in.a week = 4???
That wouldn't hardly get your rent \overheads covered.
Then you have to be registered with a governing body. Then you need insurance.

I did a lot of those courses back in.the good day and you could get 10 people one week none the next.

didsir

Thanks for your input! Yeah it seems like the general consensus is not to study here.

Now, I know it's difficult for non EU members to get a job here so how much are we looking at if he were to save up to come here and support himself? A rough figure

monflat

didsir wrote: »

Thanks for your input! Yeah it seems like the general consensus is not to study here.

Now, I know it's difficult for non EU members to get a job here so how much are we looking at if he were to save up to come here and support himself? A rough figure

Well what part does he want to come to? the likes of drumshambo would be cheaper than Dublin!!!!!

didsir

Haha. That's true. Probably cork or maybe kilkenny.

SpaceTime

Similar visa requirements apply in every EU country.

Most other EU countries use the Schengen Visa System. This is a harmonised common visa. Ireland and the UK opted out of that. So, you'd have to apply separately to each of them.

Basically, if you're from outside the EU the employer and would have to demonstrate that that an Irish or other EU national can't fill the vacant position.

I'm not trying to put you off but it's not as easy as just deciding to move. There's a long process involved and work permits would require particular skills.

If you were a physical therapist you might have a higher chance of getting a sponsored visa assuming that there might be a shortage of physical therapists for example.

Usually you'd need to have an in demand set of skills and qualifications.

Also bear in mind that Ireland and much of Europe is still going through a phase of relatively high unemployment. Had you been moving before 2007… they're might actually have been more likelihood of getting a job.

Also bear in mind that as a non EU national most social services including health cover would be unavailable to you until you're permanently resident and have made an amount of social insurance contributions.

EU citizens social insurance and rights to access to various services are provided by charging against their social insurance paid in another EU country or under a principle of reciprocity within the EU.

To make your stay permanent, you'd ultimately need to apply for naturalisation - become an Irish Citizen. That process is available to people resident here for an extended period for a lawful purpose. You can hold joint US and Irish Citizenship too.

Also just as a word of warning though. Do not attempt to work on a tourist visa waiver or enter Ireland or the EU to work without the correct visa and work permits.

Enforcement of this stuff is as serious as it is in the US and you can find yourself being deported, turned away upon landing or even jailed and deported.

I know a case of one American citizen who basically had a notion that they could just move here. They found a job in a bar and then decided to register for tax basically bluffing their way through.

A few weeks later they were contacted by the immigration services and basically deported, although they agreed to go willingly and just booked their own flight.

didsir

Right......so it's not looking too good.

Out of curiosity, would it be easier for me to go to America? I'd be graduated with a bachelor's degree.

SpaceTime

To go to the USA from the USA? That's just moving house... You wouldn't need anything.

If you're not a US citizen, a very similar process applies to moving to Ireland or any other country with a normal visa and immigration system.

You'd have to get a visa and work permit.
In some ways the US immigration system is better in others it isn't.

The higher your skill level the easier that is in most countries though.

If you're an in demand high level IT person for example it's much easier than if you work in retail.

Some practical skills like hairdressing and various building and construction trades are in high demand in countries with conduction booms for example.

Maybe look for countries that's have skills shortages in the area you're qualified in.

For example some Canadian provinces need very wide varieties of skills right now. Also Australia has similar requirements.

In general at present both the US and EU are probably a bit tougher due to higher than usual unemployment after the credit crunch / financial crisis.

If you're considering going to Ireland as a student, that's quite possible. You'd need a student visa though and public university fees for non EU students aren't subsidised but may be better value than the US in certain circumstances.

I'd say just do your research regardless of which country you're considering moving to.

It's certainly not impossible but be prepared for quite a bit of bureaucracy.

didsir

I'm irish born graduating with a degree in Zoology. Looking for a Zoo job.

Gotta love the politics and legalities of it all!

SpaceTime

Immigration law is never fun unless you're a highly paid immigration lawyer!

didsir

SpaceTime wrote: »

Immigration law is never fun unless you're a highly paid immigration lawyer!

Haha. Went down the wrong road, it seems. It's a lot more complicated than I thought.

Ponster

didsir wrote: »

Out of curiosity, would it be easier for me to go to America? I'd be graduated with a bachelor's degree.

No. It's just as hard for you to go and work in the US as it is for an American to work in Europe. I actually know more young Americans who managed to stay in europe by marrying someone rather than getting a visa.

Neither paths are impossible but both take a lot of time and planning to put yourself in a position where it's not just you wanting to move but having a company on the other side who wants you to move for them.

didsir

Hmmmm....marriage seems an interesting option. Haha

monflat

didsir wrote: »

Thanks for your input! Yeah it seems like the general consensus is not to study here.

Now, I know it's difficult for non EU members to get a job here so how much are we looking at if he were to save up to come here and support himself? A rough figure

Well it all depends on what he likes doin
If he rented a room in KilKenny a small bit of spending money I'd say 1000 a month (rough guess)
But that would entail a lot of free activities. Not much socialising involved in that.
But if renting a house with others bills would add up food too.
Deposit on accommodation at the start.
You would not be long seeing 1k trickle away

KilKenny is not cheap either but it's all within walking distance

didsir

Well, he'd be splitting the cost with me as we plan to live together so maybe it could stretch a wee bit further. He needs to do some serious thinking.

monflat

didsir wrote: »

Well, he'd be splitting the cost with me as we plan to live together so maybe it could stretch a wee bit further. He needs to do some serious thinking.

Yea i think so.

didsir

hey guys,

I was just wondering if it's a real necessity for him to have private medical insurance to come over here? Is it a deal breaker in regards for visa approval?

JohnMearsheimer

didsir wrote: »

hey guys,

I was just wondering if it's a real necessity for him to have private medical insurance to come over here? Is it a deal breaker in regards for visa approval?

I'd imagine it would be for non EU nationals.

saintchrisburg

didsir wrote: »

hey guys,

I was just wondering if it's a real necessity for him to have private medical insurance to come over here? Is it a deal breaker in regards for visa approval?

Absolutely required. I'm an American, have been living in Ireland for three years. I've done three residency permits so far (first two were for a year each, latest one is for five years) and each time they were quite strict in demanding proof of private medical insurance.

SpaceTime

Unless you're an EU national, or have a reciprocal agreement (Applies to Australia and NZ) you're not covered by the public system here so, you'd need health insurance.

Regardless of the rules, it would be foolhardy and expensive to not take it out.

Wompa1

I'm going to go the other way here.

The cost of doing an undergrad in Ireland is still cheaper than pretty much any for profit Unviersity or Community college and is typically much cheaper than an out of state tuition for a University. It's even cheaper than in-state!

I have met so many people here that joined the military in order to get their education benefits. In that time they spent in the military they could have got a visa to move to Ireland to work and save up money and have fun exploring Europe and making friends AND then getting a free education once naturalized.

Instead they get dumped on for 4+ years. Kept away from friends and families, unable to leave a certain perimeter from their base. Dealing with some major a-holes...

SHOVELLER

ProudDUB wrote: »

What about getting him to contact the US Embassy in Washington DC, or the nearest consular location to him & find out directly from them, what he needs to do?

There is no US Embassy in Washington DC just like there's no Irish Embassy in Dublin!

Never ceases to amaze me the amount of Americans who think they can just jump on a plane and move to Ireland.

iusedtoknow

Wompa1 wrote: »

I'm going to go the other way here.

The cost of doing an undergrad in Ireland is still cheaper than pretty much any for profit Unviersity or Community college and is typically much cheaper than an out of state tuition for a University. It's even cheaper than in-state!

A colleague of my wife's went through med school in Ireland (from the US). Between tuition and accommodation and fun times, he was out 15k a year (at the time) and lived well.

Between some help from his folks and throwing everything at his student debt, he was debt free pretty much by the time he was finished his first year of residency.

Wompa1

SHOVELLER wrote: »

There is no US Embassy in Washington DC just like there's no Irish Embassy in Dublin!

Never ceases to amaze me the amount of Americans who think they can just jump on a plane and move to Ireland.

What's worse? The American's who try that out of ignorance or all of the Irish that live in the US illegally knowingly?

iusedtoknow

Wompa1 wrote: »

What's worse? The American's who try that out of ignorance or all of the Irish that live in the US illegally knowingly?

c'mon wompa - you know that it's different when we do it etc etc </sarcasm>

Bayberry

Wompa1 wrote: »

What's worse? The American's who try that out of ignorance or all of the Irish that live in the US illegally knowingly?

Which is worse, an American who tries to live and work in Europe illegally out of ignorance, or one who does so knowingly?

There are a few Americans that know it is illegal for a foreigner to come to the US to work, but assume that the same type of rules won't apply to him/her moving to Europe.

iusedtoknow

Bayberry wrote: »

Which is worse, an American who tries to live and work in Europe illegally out of ignorance, or one who does so knowingly?

There are a few Americans that know it is illegal for a foreigner to come to the US to work, but assume that the same type of rules won't apply to him/her moving to Europe.

Ignorance is no excuse for breaking the law. It wouldn't stand up in court.

I remember when I lived in Barcelona there being a pretty famous case where an American was tried for immigration issues. Instead of going quietly back to the states, he pled not guilty based on the fact that he wasn't a drain on Spain etc. He was jailed for 3 months then barred from Schengen area for 15 years.

Wompa1

Bayberry wrote: »

Which is worse, an American who tries to live and work in Europe illegally out of ignorance, or one who does so knowingly?

There are a few Americans that know it is illegal for a foreigner to come to the US to work, but assume that the same type of rules won't apply to him/her moving to Europe.

Yes, it's ignorance. Also, keep in mind that the majority of Americans have never actually left America. When you talk about illegal immigrants to most Americans, the only group they seem to relate that to is the Mexicans.

Bayberry

Wompa1 wrote: »

Yes, it's ignorance. Also, keep in mind that the majority of Americans have never actually left America. When you talk about illegal immigrants to most Americans, the only group they seem to relate that to is the Mexicans.

There's ignorance and there's arrogance. "I didn't know I was arrogant" is even worse that "I didn't know".

Wompa1

Bayberry wrote: »

There's ignorance and there's arrogance. "I didn't know I was arrogant" is even worse that "I didn't know".

I hear ya. If it is arrogance than it is. Like with the illegal Irish over here

iusedtoknow

Wompa1 wrote: »

I hear ya. If it is arrogance than it is. Like with the illegal Irish over here

There is a bar on the next block to me that a lot of the Irish illegals go to - it's a well known watering hole. Whenever the cops are seen they quickly put out the cigarettes and head inside. Kind of ridiculous seeing as the police have no power on immigration in California.

Chisler2

saintchrisburg wrote: »

Absolutely required. I'm an American, have been living in Ireland for three years. I've done three residency permits so far (first two were for a year each, latest one is for five years) and each time they were quite strict in demanding proof of private medical insurance.

Absolutely crucial! I am Irish, husband American. If he requires any medical treatment, GP visits, encounters emergency etc. whilst we are together at my property in Ireland he is covered by his USA employers (extensive, may I add!) insurance. Otherwise he is fcuk'ed as they succinctly put it on the streets! Travel insurance covers only short (less than a month, usually) specified visits abroad.

EU healthcare is based exclusively on EU residency. Recently I broke a femur whilst visiting the UK, where I had lived for the previous 20 years. However I was now "domiciled" (though no Green Card or status!) in the USA so had to pay all expenses to the hospital which treated the fracture.

Chisler2

Bayberry wrote: »

Which is worse, an American who tries to live and work in Europe illegally out of ignorance, or one who does so knowingly?

There are a few Americans that know it is illegal for a foreigner to come to the US to work, but assume that the same type of rules won't apply to him/her moving to Europe.

Sounds like pure hubris. "I/we are above the law". Yeah...........there are (believe it or not!) some Americans who are not aware of the long and esteemed European judicial and parliamentary systems of governance which significantly pre-date their own (ahem!) "territorial acquisitions" and subsequent arrangments.