Paying for Air....

grange mac

I have a slow puncture in car so had to get air in it. Tried filling station yest evwning but that was broken, apple green in ballincollig next but there air hose was broken so went to new maxol in ballincollig....And they are charging for air...to pump tyres... 1euro for 5min air...

Its a new station but this is a joke, I never heard of paying for air before. They have new shiney air hose, perfume and hoover all min charge 1euro...to me charging for air is just greed!!!

Not impressed and with blacken maxol ever again after that rip off

Stheno

Why? They have to maintain the machinery, keep it working etc.

I tend to use applegreen or esso, both are free, applegreen even has a flat tyre button and you can auto set to the right pressure in both.

Both are free, but I'd happily pay a euro in either.

Mena

How much do you think the equipment to pump that air costs to buy and maintain? It's not free.

Arthur Beesley

Do you get a refund on the unused time, or is it use it or lose it?

I'd have brought containers or bags and filled them just to get the full value of the 5 mins of air. No point leaving it for he garage to sell to someone else.

grange mac

Mena wrote: »

How much do you think the equipment to pump that air costs to buy and maintain? It's not free.

True but the margin they charge in shop and fuel should more than cover it. Pump n air hose cost 100max and last 10 years min so....well at 1euro for 5min...and nail in coffin was it took ages to pump so pumping a van would break a person!!

shanec1928

They are dead right. Far to many just fling the hose on the ground damaging the gage. If people habe to pay for it then they will respect it a little bit more.

Then there's the cost of the equipment the need for a compressor and it's maintenance. And the constant repair bills from peoples neglect.

grange mac

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Do you get a refund on the unused time, or is it use it or lose it?

I'd have brought containers or bags and filled them just to get the full value of the 5 mins of air. No point leaving it for he garage to sell to someone else.

Use or lose....

Stheno

grange mac wrote: »

True but the margin they charge in shop and fuel should more than cover it. Pump n air hose cost 100max and last 10 years min so....well at 1euro for 5min...and nail in coffin was it took ages to pump so pumping a van would break a person!!

There is feck all margin on fuel.

grange mac

Stheno wrote: »

There is feck all margin on fuel.

Let's say 3% its less on petrol but more on diesel. Give it 100k litres a week...min that's 3000euro week bit I kno that's before overheads. But its principle of charging for it that bugs me. Topaz hav a 2euro deposit which you get back after your finished....

Aldi had compressors recently for 80 hose 20 so to me its just wrong to charge for it.

Stheno

grange mac wrote: »

Let's say 3% its less on petrol but more on diesel. Give it 100k litres a week...min that's 3000euro week bit I kno that's before overheads. But its principle of charging for it that bugs me. Topaz hav a 2euro deposit which you get back after your finished....

Aldi had compressors recently for 80 hose 20 so to me its just wrong to charge for it.

I prefer the digital machines to compressors.

I suspect garages pay a little more than €100 for the equipment they have in place.

Get over it basically, or buy a compressor and keep it in your car.

Ronan|Raven

Oh the horror of it all. A whole euro you had to pay them to keep your tyre from going flat. Buy yourself a foot pump to save yourself the hassle in future.

grange mac

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

Oh the horror of it all. A whole euro you had to pay them to keep your tyre from going flat. Buy yourself a foot pump to save yourself the hassle in future.

Yes horror!!! Next thing they may try to charge for entry into the shop....

GerardKeating

grange mac wrote: »

True but the margin they charge in shop and fuel should more than cover it. Pump n air hose cost 100max and last 10 years min so....well at 1euro for 5min...and nail in coffin was it took ages to pump so pumping a van would break a person!!

There is little or no margin on Fuel, most need to shop and other services to turn a profit.

A €1 for five minutes, that's €20 an hour, assuming no slack time, but more like 5 customers an hour, (assuming the place is open 24/7), that 168 hours a week, maybe it takes 800/900 a week.

Assuming your purchase price of €100,000 and they borrowed the money to purchase it, it would take at least two weeks a month revenue to cover the loan, and that assume no maintenance costs.

grange mac

GerardKeating wrote: »

There is little or no margin on Fuel, most need to shop and other services to turn a profit.

A €1 for five minutes, that's €20 an hour, assuming no slack time, but more like 5 customers an hour, (assuming the place is open 24/7), that 168 hours a week, maybe it takes 800/900 a week.

Assuming your purchase price of €100,000 and they borrowed the money to purchase it, it would take at least two weeks a month revenue to cover the loan, and that assume no maintenance costs.

Open 7-10....its new revamp same owners so let's say put 200k on revamp the air will most certainly pay for itself in no time. I just think its wrong to charge for air bit correct to charge for hoover and perfume.

ktc99

Very very very few places would do 100,000 litres a week if any! And the margin is more around 2.3% not including all the charges that go with card transactions and lodging cash at 47c per €100! The garage doesn't get the whole euro..it's split between them, maxol and the company that supplies the machine! Unfortunately this will be rolled out every where soon but just gotta move with the times! A good few garages have them now and don't even offer the Hoover or air freshener..I don't mind paying a euro a few times a year to be honest and woodies sell the mini car compressors for €12 anyway. I hope this doesn't turn into a witch hunt thread! :P anyway that's my 2 cents!

davo10

grange mac wrote: »

I just think its wrong to charge for air bit correct to charge for hoover and perfume.

The air is free, you are being charged for using their equipment. You are not happy to pay for air but happy to pay for the Hoover, one machine pushes air out, one sucks air in, both are machines, why do you object paying for one and not the other?

NSAman

You went to two other garages that didn't charge to use the equipment and they were broken, you went to one that does charge and the equipment worked.....Hmmm perhaps your slow puncture should have been fixed? but someone will charge you for that...If needs must pay to use the equipment. Simples.

Arthur Beesley

GerardKeating wrote: »

There is little or no margin on Fuel, most need to shop and other services to turn a profit.

A €1 for five minutes, that's €20 an hour, assuming no slack time, but more like 5 customers an hour, (assuming the place is open 24/7), that 168 hours a week, maybe it takes 800/900 a week.

Assuming your purchase price of €100,000 and they borrowed the money to purchase it, it would take at least two weeks a month revenue to cover the loan, and that assume no maintenance costs.

60 mins in an hour, not 100...

mikemac1

Unfortunately OP sometimes people don't respect what they get for free

Maybe that garage was free once but they got tired of drivers throwing the hose on the ground and driving over it

Which is probably what happened in the first two garages you went to

leeroybrown

I got talking to a garage owner about this ages ago and he said he'd started charging because customers were constantly breaking the equipment and he was sick of losing money because people keep throwing the gauge on the ground or driving over it. Expect to find exactly the same situation everywhere bar big service stops quite soon.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

ScouseMouse

So who pays for the electricity that the machine uses? Surely the compressor doesn't run on water? Oh hang on, thats charged for now. Nothing is free. If you want to use a service, you have to be prepared to pay for it.

stimpson

If the margins are so low on petrol, how do Great Gas turn a profit with no shops?

Anyway, OP, you can get a small compressor that works off the cigarette lighter for very little. I got one for around a tenner in Aldi recently. Halfords have them for €25.

doublej

Why doesn't OP get their slow puncture fixed?
One of the reasons is because there are plenty of businesses prepared to provide a free service for him!
There is no such thing as Free Air.
There are garages providing compressed air through a hose and delivered through an air gauge.
As has been pointed out by previous contributors, the equipment costs money to instal. It must also be subjected to regular calibration because if OP on one of his many visits to inflate a tyre rather than repairing it were to rely upon a reading that was inaccurate and suffered a blow out then his solicitor would be banging on garage door looking for satisfaction for a client of theirs that didn't even have to pay for a product to have protection of The Law.
Compressors, piping, space, signage, maintanance, calibration, equipment and replacement equipment all involve capital outlay.
The concept of Free Air belongs to the days when a garage or filling station also carried out Tyre repairs and as such had the air "on tap" for their own use and it was no big deal to have a second air hose.
The new regime of company owned service stations no longer do mechanical or tyre work , hence the reassessment of the air and water provision.

delahuntv

stimpson wrote: »

If the margins are so low on petrol, how do Great Gas turn a profit with no shops?

.

volume - pure and simple. But that can only work in selected busy sites.

stimpson

delahuntv wrote: »

volume - pure and simple. But that can only work in selected busy sites.

I don't accept that. The Great Gas on the N2 near Ashbourne is never as busy as the Topaz down the road. I hear lots of moaning from service station owners about low margins, but I see few if any of them closing down.

leeroybrown

stimpson wrote: »

I don't accept that. The Great Gas on the N2 near Ashbourne is never as busy as the Topaz down the road. I hear lots of moaning from service station owners about low margins, but I see few if any of them closing down.

That one is unmanned, isn't it? It's presumably running off a very low cost base and maximising the margin on fuel.

doublej

in 1992 there were 4,132 outlets licenced to sell petrol and/or diesel in the Republic (Source revenue)

in 2000,there were 2,087 licenced outlets-same source.

in 2008 revenue licenced 1,047 outlets.

Last year(2013) there were 1065 outlets selling under the new licencing system of separate licence for petrol and diesel and marked gas oil.

There are large tracts of the country that are 20-30km away from a fuel retailing outlet.

every Tesco, Applegreen or company owned-company operated service station that is developed puts additional pressure upon independents who do not have the financial wherewithall to compete with the very impressive offerings.

planning regulations in Ireland for fuel outlets have set very high bars for environmental,fire and health/safety for all new and revamped sites.

it costs a minimum of €3m to develop an urban site.topaz spent in excess of €8m on one Dublin site, Junction 14 on the M7 cost more than €6m to develop and the Barack Obama Plaza in Moneygal has a €5m development cost.

For these businesses to succeed,others will fall by the wayside-that's the nature of capitalism.Big will get bigger and the smaller will wither on the vine.

Banks are much more likely to lend and service the requirements of large multinational corporations that smaller independent entities.How do you compete against a company that can provide best in class facilities and has a revolving credit line?

Independent retailers buy fuel from their contracted supplier(Esso,Texaco,Topaz,Maxol etc) at a wholesale price and sell it to their customers; their competition are the same companies who not only have the retail margin but ALSO the wholesale margin,a double whammy.

Planning restrictions in Ireland have prevented retail outlets attatched to fuel stores to be above a stipulated square footage of retail space, if and when this restriction is lifted the few remaining independents will be bought out by the oil companies to develop supermarket-sized stores.

stimpson

leeroybrown wrote: »

That one is unmanned, isn't it? It's presumably running off a very low cost base and maximising the margin on fuel.

It's still viable without a shop to supplement it's income despite another station with a shop within 1/2 km.

Ken.

Mcloughlins in Newbridge have the best setup for air bar none. They have a slot like you get on a shopping trolley. You put in a Euro and when you finish click back the pump and you get your Euro back. So simple and so effective. Even a trolley token will work in it.

foggy_lad

grange mac wrote: »

Let's say 3% its less on petrol but more on diesel. Give it 100k litres a week...min that's 3000euro week bit I kno that's before overheads. But its principle of charging for it that bugs me. Topaz hav a 2euro deposit which you get back after your finished....

Aldi had compressors recently for 80 hose 20 so to me its just wrong to charge for it.

Maybe you should consider buying a compressor in Aldi next time they are on sale?

ktc99

ken wrote: »

Mcloughlins in Newbridge have the best setup for air bar none. They have a slot like you get on a shopping trolley. You put in a Euro and when you finish click back the pump and you get your Euro back. So simple and so effective. Even a trolley token will work in it.

That system is in a load of places

NSAman

foggy_lad wrote: »

Maybe you should consider buying a compressor in Aldi next time they are on sale?

If he wont spend 1euro on some air, can you really see him spending 30??.;)

ScouseMouse

30 quid for a bit of a machine that uses MY cigarette lighter to pump air thats free? Thats a real ripoff.

:rolleyes:

L1011

grange mac wrote: »

True but the margin they charge in shop and fuel should more than cover it. Pump n air hose cost 100max and last 10 years min so....well at 1euro for 5min...and nail in coffin was it took ages to pump so pumping a van would break a person!!

Not a hope they cost 100 quid *or* last ten years. Three months without requiring serious maintenance is rare with the way they get treated.

grange mac wrote: »

Let's say 3% its less on petrol but more on diesel. Give it 100k litres a week...min that's 3000euro week bit I kno that's before overheads. But its principle of charging for it that bugs me. Topaz hav a 2euro deposit which you get back after your finished....

Aldi had compressors recently for 80 hose 20 so to me its just wrong to charge for it.

Hasn't been 3% margin on fuel for years.

Buy the Aldi compressor if you want; its not a forecourt grade device.

grange mac

I'm lucky I'm not sensitive all the abuse I'm getting here!! But majority of people think I'm stingy well I don't throw money away but I don't see how charging a euro will make people handle the air pumps with care...the public just don't care bout things they don't own.
I have a simple philosophy and that's treat others like I'd like to be treated by them....
Anything I use I put back same condition and place where I got item from....pity note wouldn do same...OK ye can carry on dishing me now!!!

Stheno

grange mac wrote: »

I'm lucky I'm not sensitive all the abuse I'm getting here!! But majority of people think I'm stingy well I don't throw money away but I don't see how charging a euro will make people handle the air pumps with care...the public just don't care bout things they don't own.
I have a simple philosophy and that's treat others like I'd like to be treated by them....
Anything I use I put back same condition and place where I got item from....pity note wouldn do same...OK ye can carry on dishing me now!!!

It mightn't make you take care, but it contributes to the maintenance bill?

davo10

grange mac wrote: »

..the public just don't care bout things they don't own.
I have a simple philosophy and that's treat others like I'd like to be treated by them....

.... or don't have to pay for.

You are happy for strangers to come to your house and use your equipment, your electricity for free?

grange mac

davo10 wrote: »

.... or don't have to pay for.

You are happy for strangers to come to your house and use your equipment, your electricity for free?

In past week have given loan of sprayer, cut neighbours lawn, tools from yard and other stuff... don't expect anything that n return but know people that borrow from me I can call to them when I need something....
So no don't allow strangers borrow stuff bit do allow people I know....davo10

hawkwind23

I'm on your side OP
i wont pay the euro either ! and they try charge for the water too by adding screen wash.
plenty of garages that use the token , stick to them.

some laugh that the garages all had free air and water for years and didnt go bust , and all the shytetalk now about margins and the like.

grange mac

hawkwind23 wrote: »

I'm on your side OP
i wont pay the euro either ! and they try charge for the water too by adding screen wash.
plenty of garages that use the token , stick to them.

some laugh that the garages all had free air and water for years and didnt go bust , and all the shytetalk now about margins and the like.

Omg welcome to my club...twaz nice known ya but now you will be slaughtered alive here lol

grange mac

I worked for large independent wholesaler for decade so I do know what I am talking about when it comes to volumes and margins.....

Geuze

20p for air at a service station in Derry.

davo10

hawkwind23 wrote: »

I'm on your side OP
i wont pay the euro either ! and they try charge for the water too by adding screen wash.
plenty of garages that use the token , stick to them.

some laugh that the garages all had free air and water for years and didnt go bust , and all the shytetalk now about margins and the like.

See doublej's earlier post about declining number of garages ( less than a quarter of the number now compared to 20 years ago despite a huge increase in number of cars) many garages have gone bust.

Air is free to breathe, if you need a machine to pump it then there is a cost involved for the provider. A lot of garages do not charge for air and to be honest I would probably go to one that doesn't but I don't expect anything for nothing so if it costs the provider to provide a service, I understand that they charge for it. OP can rant all he wants but he still expects to use a service (air) for free to avoid paying for something else (fix tyre) .

If something costs, don't expect it to be given to you for free.

davo10

grange mac wrote: »

In past week have given loan of sprayer, cut neighbours lawn, tools from yard and other stuff... don't expect anything that n return but know people that borrow from me I can call to them when I need something....
So no don't allow strangers borrow stuff bit do allow people I know....davo10

This is different, you know these people, they are your friends and they are "borrowing" your equipment, you are not a business, if you ran a hardware equipment rental company, would you allow all those people to borrow them free of charge?

You could always go in and tell garage owner that the next time he or his family needs any of the items you list above, they can call on over to your house.

animaal

If it costs a euro to fill my tyres with air, I'll pay it, probably with a moan. I view believe improperly filled tyres are a safety issue.

However, there are plenty of people who would neglect their tyres in order to save a euro. This increases the risks for all of us. Is there a model other than pay-per-use that would be sustainable? If forecourt A increases prices in order to fund an air compressor, and forecourt B doesn't because it has no compressor, people will buy most of their fuel cheaper in B.

More regulation (sigh)? Force all forecourts to have a compressor without charge, and so all increase prices to compensate?

There's probably no ideal solution really. But it's a pity to disincentivise safety.

ktc99

I got a foot pump for the car for €3 in EuroGiant recently and it's brilliant! Sturdy, small and does the job perfectly! I would rather it over the lighter socket plug in ones anyday! Keep it in the car and you'll never be stuck!