Teen Disco vids on Hotel Facebook

Hi All,


I wonder can you advise me on this situation. My 15 year old son attends a teen disco regularly in a well known and respected Hotel in my hometown.


Around Christmas I noticed that they were uploading videos of the teens in the disco on their facebook page - it is practice for them to post pics (which I don't agree with) but I thought videos being posted was extremely inappropriate. I phoned the hotel and the videos were removed. BTW my son wasn't on these videos but I don't think that's relevant, there were young girls with skimpy outfits for anyone to view, there were also videos of the teens kissing, which is their business and should not be uploaded for all to see.


A few weeks ago I noticed that videos were being posted again -this time I spoke to the manager and asked for them to be removed. My son was on it this time and he said he was uncomfortable with the videos. The manager had the videos removed but did not get back to me with any reassurance that they would not be posted again.


What I want to ask is for a start is it legal to post videos/images of teens without parental consent? Should I seek reassurance from her before the next disco?


I feel so strongly about this - they are only kids, I think its really inappropriate, if it happens again should i consult the guards / alert the local press? the hotel has a reputation of quality, I can't believe they would be this irresponsible.

vicwatson

Have a word with the Data Protection commissioner?

You might also check the terms and conditions on the entry ticket and see if it states anything on that about you having to waive your rights if you enter the premises etc. Worth looking at

vicwatson

vicwatson wrote: »

Have a word with the Data Protection commissioner?

You might also check the terms and conditions on the entry ticket and see if it states anything on that about you having to waive your rights if you enter the premises etc. Worth looking at

They just pay at the door and don't get a ticket, I did actually look on the hotels website and I couldn't find anything on it that suggested that they could use images. What annoys me is that they don't post videos of the senior discos, just the juniors - I don't know why they think its ok to upload videos of kids

retro:electro

I'm with you op this would absolutely get my blood boiling! What were they thinking?! Fair play to you for following it up.

Paulw

How the kids dress or act is your issue? I'm sure they are dressed the same way before entering the venue, and probably at similar carryon when they leave, before getting home. If a video is taken in public, then it can be put online.

Maybe some parents would prefer to actually see what their kids get up to at these events? :eek:

You are better off contacting the Data Protection Commissioner and see what they say. There may be a sign at the door either, stating that video is being recorded, photos taken, and may be used to publicise the club/event.

I don't have an issue with how they dress or act, sure they are only teenagers, we've all been there, it's part of growing up. My issue is the fact that they are underage and there are videos online for absolutely everyone to see-from parents to perverts, I just think it's appalling.

The manager told me that she was not aware that the nightclub were uploading the teen disco videos.I just want assurance from her that it won't happen again. One little girl of 13 who is a friend of my son was on one of those videos kissing a young lad, and she got called all sorts of horrible names on Facebook, I think that's terrible. Whatever about her peers recording her on their camera phones, there's nothing you can do about that, but a hotel should know better

God be with the days you could go to a disco without having cameras shoved in your face

hullaballoo

Sounds like it could breach our very broad Child Trafficking and Pornography Acts. Report it to the Gardaí along with the relevant provisions of the acts and they should take action.

johnnyskeleton

I feel so strongly about this - they are only kids, I think its really inappropriate, if it happens again should i consult the guards / alert the local press? the hotel has a reputation of quality, I can't believe they would be this irresponsible.

Youre right - children should neither be seen nor heard and allowing them to put videos of themselves on social networks is a crime against public decency

conorh91

Not to derail the thread but I noticed this recently.

A well-known gay bar publishes images of patrons queuing outside the premises, and others inside the premises. Some images merely reflect the person's presence. Others might be regarded as intimate. Images are published online and presumably shared.

Problems?

NutmegTom

I personally think if you want to alert the press regarding your issue posted above your either a nutcase or something else.

rotun

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Youre right - children should neither be seen nor heard and allowing them to put videos of themselves on social networks is a crime against public decency

It's adults posting videos of the kids, not kids posting clips of themselves.

johnnyskeleton

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Youre right - children should neither be seen nor heard and allowing them to put videos of themselves on social networks is a crime against public decency

I would kindly request that you actually take the time to read my post, it is the HOTEL'S Facebook page posting these videos

NutmegTom

NutmegTom wrote: »

I personally think if you want to alert the press regarding your issue posted above your either a nutcase or something else.

Please note that I said "local press" and by the way the local press I am referring to provide a foroum for these kind of debates.
If wanting to be a good parent and not see anyone else's kids being exploited or bullied makes me a nutjob then lock me up now.
I have an issue with adults uploading videos of underage teens doing what they do at discos- I must be crazy so

Cantremember

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't have an issue with how they dress or act, sure they are only teenagers, we've all been there, it's part of growing up. ...Whatever about her peers recording her on their camera phones, there's nothing you can do about that, but a hotel should know better

God be with the days you could go to a disco without having cameras shoved in your face

So, a hotel publishes them, kids get name called on social media, hotel is at fault and to be referred to data protection and Gardai for investigation into pornography? I got that right?

Teens film them, publish them, kids get name called on social media and ....
"They are only teenagers".
Interesting how the double standards creep into view. Interesting how we have created a caste who are above the law. Or should I say, another caste who are above the law.

NutmegTom

Deleted User wrote: »

Please note that I said "local press" and by the way the local press I am referring to provide a foroum for these kind of debates.
If wanting to be a good parent and not see anyone else's kids being exploited or bullied makes me a nutjob then lock me up now.
I have an issue with adults uploading videos of underage teens doing what they do at discos- I must be crazy so

I just think you would be crazy if you contacted your local press to publish in the news paper about the issue you are having. To me, that's Olympic.

rotun

Cantremember wrote: »

So, a hotel publishes them, kids get name called on social media, hotel is at fault and to be referred to data protection and Gardai for investigation into pornography? I got that right?

No.

NutmegTom

Well the thing is, social networking is the BIGGEST LOAD OF ****E ****ING EVER. What yyou could do is PM (private message) the people who uploaded the viddeos and asked it to be removed.

If they won't remove it then contact the social network and ask for it to be removed.

NutmegTom

rotun wrote: »

No.

He is correct.


Why would OP want to get the Gardai and social media involved in a simple stupid situation. Really, it is beyond me.

All you have to do is contact the dumb bumble bee's that uploaded the videos on the social networking site and ask for it to be removed, if they don't remove it (ignore you, say no) and then then the video is still truly contains content of your own son and that's the reason why you want it removed then contact the social media site via email or contact the parents of the kid for the videos to be removed, and just ask nicely.


WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTACT THE MEDIA. THEY WILL MOST LIKELY PUBLISH THE VIDEO AND YOUR FULL NAMES,ETC IN THE NEWS PAPER. **** THE MEDIA.

rotun

NutmegTom wrote: »

He is correct.


Why would OP want to get the Gardai and social media invovled in a simple stupid situation. Really, it is beyond me. CRAZY.

All you have to do is contact the dumb bumble bee's that uploaded the vidoes on the social netowkring site and ask for it to be removed, if they don't remove it (iignore you, say no) and thif then the video is still turly ontaints content of your own son and thats th ereason wht you ewant it removed then contact the social media site via email or contact the parents of the kid for the videos to be removed, and just ask nicely.


WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO CONTACT THE MEDIA. THEY WILL MOST LIKELY PUBLISH THE VIDEO AND YOUR FULL NAMES,ETC IN THE NEWS PAPER. **** THE MEDIA.

She asked if she got that right, I said no. The op never mentioned child pornography.

Fwiw, I don't agree with the op or the hotel.

The hotel were wrong to put up the videos, and the op is wrong to think that the guards or local radio is the right avenue.

Personally I think another phone call to the manager would do. Worked last time.

I might not know much about the legal side if it, hence my request for advice, but it can't be called a double standard when teens post vids of each other along side adults posting videos of teens, surely adults have duty if responsibility.

I work in the community development area and whenever our organisation holds fundays or activities for underage teens/children, we have to get parental consent forms filled in whenever images/ videos are being taken. I know this seems impractical when applied to a disco setting so why bother posting videos then? And, I reiterate, they NEVER post videos of the over 18's disco, I just don't understand why they do this

NutmegTom

rotun wrote: »

She asked if she got that right, I said no. The op never mentioned child pornography.

Fwiw, I don't agree with the op or the hotel.

The hotel were wrong to put up the videos, and the op is wrong to think that the guards or local radio is the right avenue.

Personally I think another phone call to the manager would do. Worked last time.

When I said "social media" i meant the media, such as dailymil,independent.ie,etc.

[QUOTE=rotun;914410

The hotel were wrong to put up the videos, and the op is wrong to think that the guards or local radio is the right avenue.

Personally I think another phone call to the manager would do. Worked last time.[/QUOTE]

You are correct that it did work the last time when I contacted the manager, the original question posed was do I have the right to seek confirmation from her that it won't happen again, that's what it comes down to

Bepolite

While I do think the moral outrage and 'won't someone think of the children' stuff is being blown a wee bit out of proportion: What possible reason could they have for posting this on their facebook page? Some kind of teenagers have your debs here and get lucky kind of effort?

OP simplest and easiest thing to do would be to complain to Facebook.

rotun

rotun wrote: »

The hotel were wrong to put up the videos

Well that's just not really true, though, is it, in fairness.

Are bouncing castle companies wrong to use photos of kids on their castles? What about activity centres? I'm a photographer and have photos of kids on facebook.

The paranoia is actually gone beyond ridiculous at this stage.

How are the hotel supposed to promote something for teens? To me it seems the hotel are doing parents a favour by recording the events.

OP, you're massively over-reacting and considering you even said yoour own child wasn't in the initial videos then I don't see why it's any of your concern or business.

If a parent whose childactually was in the video has issue, I'm sure they'd let the hotel know, themselves. Otherwise I'd imagine they view the videos in the same way the vast majority of parents will (and teens who attend) - a bit of fun.

If it becomes too much hassle hotel will likely just stop catering for teens (which I've seen venues do already). Give them a chance to grow up.

Bepolite

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that's just not really true, though, is it, in fairness.

Are bouncing castle companies wrong to use photos of kids on their castles? What about activity centres? I'm a photographer and have photos of kids on facebook.

The paranoia is actually gone beyond ridiculous at this stage.

How are the hotel supposed to promote something for teens? To me it seems the hotel are doing parents a favour by recording the events.

OP, you're massively over-reacting and considering you even said yoour own child wasn't in the initial videos then I don't see why it's any of your concern or business.

If a parent whose childactually was in the video has issue, I'm sure they'd let the hotel know, themselves. Otherwise I'd imagine they view the videos in the same way the vast majority of parents will (and teens who attend) - a bit of fun.

If it becomes too much hassle hotel will likely just stop catering for teens (which I've seen venues do already). Give them a chance to grow up.

The paedogeddon brasseye really should be on the TV annually.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Well that's just not really true, though, is it, in fairness.

Are bouncing castle companies wrong to use photos of kids on their castles? What about activity centres? I'm a photographer and have photos of kids on facebook.

The paranoia is actually gone beyond ridiculous at this stage.

How are the hotel supposed to promote something for teens? To me it seems the hotel are doing parents a favour by recording the events.

OP, you're massively over-reacting and considering you even said yoour own child wasn't in the initial videos then I don't see why it's any of your concern or business.

If a parent whose childactually was in the video has issue, I'm sure they'd let the hotel know, themselves. Otherwise I'd imagine they view the videos in the same way the vast majority of parents will (and teens who attend) - a bit of fun.

If it becomes too much hassle hotel will likely just stop catering for teens (which I've seen venues do already). Give them a chance to grow up.

My child was in the second video and felt massively uncomfortable, and if you knew which hotel it was you would know that they will never "stop catering for teens" they are so profit driven. I was at those same teen discos in the same hotel in the early 90's and there was no social media then- they don't need the promotion. By the way I wouldn't describe young girls being bullied because of videos of them kissing boys being uploaded as "a but if fun" and we all know things can go further at these discos. Remember the uproar over that poor girl at slane last year? No, I'm sorry, I don't find it fun at all

Bepolite

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember the uproar over that poor girl at slane last year? No, I'm sorry, I don't find it fun at all

To be fair this isn't exactly comparing like with like.

Bepolite

Bepolite wrote: »

To be fair this isn't exactly comparing like with like.

I'm afraid I have to disagree with you there, on those videos there were footage of some teens, while not exactly doing the slane incident, but Damn near. Now I'm not for one minute judging them, not at all, being a teen is hard, but videos for all to see is mortifying and embarrassing

goz83

Bepolite wrote: »

To be fair this isn't exactly comparing like with like.

+1

I would add that having the disco on camera would also promote better behaviour.

OP, your son might have been uncomfortable about it, because you trawled through the footage of what is supposed to be his time, with his mates, not under your watchful eye.

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

+1

I would add that having the disco on camera would also promote better behaviour.

OP, your son might have been uncomfortable about it, because you trawled through the footage of what is supposed to be his time, with his mates, not under your watchful eye.

I didn't , he came to me and said it

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

I didn't , he came to me and said it

Before, or after he knew you went through the first upload?

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

Before, or after he knew you went through the first upload?

He didn't know I knew about the videos and complained the first time, so when he made me aware of it the second time I acted on it immediately, he doesn't have much self confidence, and I was really happy that he communicated with me too

goz83

Deleted User wrote: »

He didn't know I knew about the videos and complained the first time, so when he made me aware of it the second time I acted on it immediately, he doesn't have much self confidence, and I was really happy that he communicated with me too

So you both went through the videos of a hotel disco and neither of you knew about each-other doing this until he came to you about it? Sorry, but i'm going to be s skeptic and call fish.

Anyway, good luck

goz83

goz83 wrote: »

So you both went through the videos of a hotel disco and neither of you knew about each-other doing this until he came to you about it? Sorry, but i'm going to be s skeptic and call fish.

Anyway, good luck

Why is it hard to believe that we are both Facebook friends with the one hotel that we have in our small town? And there was no trawling, these videos popped up on the news feed

ItsShane

At the end f the day, these videos were posted for (more than likely) promotional reasons.
If they posted it to YouTube, then legally there would be nothing that could be done as the video would be property of the camera operator.
However, since it's on the hotel's page, then it means it's for promotional purposes which requires legal signatures.

You're dead right, OP.

No Pants

[Deleted User] wrote: »

My child was in the second video and felt massively uncomfortable

Why?

davo10

Around two weeks ago there was a lady interviewed by Matt Cooper on the Last Word. She had written a book about things that we think are true, but are not. Interestingly for this topic, one of them was the photography/recording of children playing/socialising. I have heard people say it is illegal to record children in a school playground, take photos, I even heard of one school announcing before a Christmas play in a hall that parents were not allowed to photo/record their children as it was against child protection laws. This author said that was complete drivel, there is no law that prohibits the recoding of children in public areas, events, schools etc.

While you might think this a little creepy OP, switch on your TV every night and you will see concerts, shows, live events etc which show the people who paid to attend them, it only becomes relevant when you know someone in the video, to everyone else it's just kids being kids, the same way we were at that age. The invent of the mobile phone has stripped away all expectation of privacy.

Quazzie

No Pants wrote: »

Why?

Could be a few reasons.
1. He was being broadcast at a venue which he attended where he felt he was allowed to act in a manner that would not later be subjected to scrutiny from display on social media. I'm sure when he was out dancing, playacting, kissing a girl he never expected to later have it broadcast on social media for all to see including his peers and parents.
2. There was an adult with a camera going around with a camera take images and recordings of children in various moments some of which were intimate. I personally find it kind of disturbing that someone gets paid by the hotel to record children in various stages of embrace.

Both of these would leave me feeling uncomfortable and possible embarrassed to be honest,

Paulw

ItsShane wrote: »

However, since it's on the hotel's page, then it means it's for promotional purposes which requires legal signatures.

Where in law does it state that a signature is required for promotional material?

Quazzie

Quazzie wrote: »

2. There was an adult with a camera going around with a camera take images and recordings of children in various moments some of which were intimate. I personally find it kind of disturbing that someone gets paid by the hotel to record children in various stages of embrace.

Both of these would leave me feeling uncomfortable and possible embarrassed to be honest,

Thank you, that's the part I have a massive problem with, an adult recording these teens, and teens doing what they do at discos, that shouldn't be uploaded for public viewing

swanvill

Quazzie - Point 2 was a very good point.
What is the name of the hotel with these publicity videos?

I don't think it would be appropriate to name them(or even allowed) I asked for advice here as I intend on speaking to the manager again to ask her will this happen again. She is a sensible approachable lady, I have no doubt she will listen to what I have to say, I just wanted to know do I have the right to request that the videos of the teen disco are not uploaded.

swanvill

In my lay opinion I think you have a right to request to have them removed, if they refuse & your son suffers any adverse consequences then he has the right to seek redress.At this stage you should consult a solicitor.

The reason's that hotel record & upload the video is for publicity, so let us know who it is?

evolving_doors

vicwatson wrote: »

Have a word with the Data Protection commissioner?

You might also check the terms and conditions on the entry ticket and see if it states anything on that about you having to waive your rights if you enter the premises etc. Worth looking at

I don't think kids are allowed to enter into contracts! And definitely not to waive rights...

Recording kids without anyone's consent is a big no! This is no different to a stranger with a camera on a beach or swimming pool photographing children.

come to think of it, parents are requested nowadays not to even photograph their own kids in a swimming pool. I don't know if it is specifically illegal to do so... but kids and recordings, no way, this has come up on Joeer Duffayyyy so many you're.

if its not for commercial purposes its just creepy.
If it is for commercial purposes then its exploitation of children who aren't olkd enough to give consent.
Data protection office would take a very dim view imo.

YellowFeather

I'd be with the OP on this one.

Whatever about being filmed at a concert, if you were to look at the back of a ticket to a concert, I'd wage a bet that there will be something in the Ts&Cs about this concert may be filmed for promotional reasons and you consent to your image being used, etc., etc.

But, even disregarding the legality of the issue, a bit of common sense would go a long way. Whatever about putting up a pic of a couple of kids smiling for the camera, why in the name of God would they stick up pictures of some kids snogging each other?? Jaysus - I'm a bit past the auld teenage discos at this stage, but if a hotel in a small town like that put up a picture of me kissing some fella, knowing full well that it would be seen by a large part of the community, I would be absolutely furious!

ItsShane

Paulw wrote: »

Where in law does it state that a signature is required for promotional material?

Im not routing through the Internet for what is common knowledge.
I can't plaster your face on a Coca Cola advertising poster on a bus shelter for all to see without your permission.

Pro Hoc Vice

Paulw wrote: »

Where in law does it state that a signature is required for promotional material?

5.2 When I am attending a public event, can the organisers take promotional photographs of me without my consent?

The Data Protection Acts 1988 and 2003 state that "personal data" means data relating to a living individual who is or can be identified either from the data or from the data in conjunction with other information that is in, or is likely to come into, the possession of the data controller. On this basis an image of a person is considered "personal data" and would be subject to the provisions of the Acts. The capturing of a person's image and the subsequent use of such an image would constitute processing of personal data within the meaning of the Acts.

Individuals have a right to have their personal data processed in a manner that complies with the requirements of the Acts. Section 2(1)(a) of the Acts requires that personal data "shall have been obtained, and the data shall be processed, fairly". One of the key provisions with regard to the processing of personal data is that it should be done with the consent of the individuals concerned.

The key issue is notice and choice in advance of the image being taken. Furthermore, a clear and accessible opt-out facility should be available to all attendees.

We would consider it best practice to have written notices in place advising attendees of the timing of the photo being taken, the purpose of taking the photo and the use to which the image will be put. Prior to the image being taken there should be an announcement informing individuals that the photo is about to be taken to allow attendees exercise their right not to participate in the initiative.

http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Topical-Data-Protection-Issues/1241.htm

hullaballoo

From s. 2 of the Act I mentioned above:

irishstatutebook.ie wrote:

“child pornography” means—
(a) any visual representation—
(i) that shows or, in the case of a document, relates to a person who is or is depicted as being a child and who is engaged in or is depicted as being engaged in explicit sexual activity,
(ii) that shows or, in the case of a document, relates to a person who is or is depicted as being a child and who is or is depicted as witnessing any such activity by any person or persons, or
(iii) whose dominant characteristic is the depiction, for a sexual purpose, of the genital or anal region of a child,
(b) any audio representation of a person who is or is represented as being a child and who is engaged in or is represented as being engaged in explicit sexual activity,
(c) any visual or audio representation that advocates, encourages or counsels any sexual activity with children which is an offence under any enactment, or
(d) any visual representation or description of, or information relating to, a child that indicates or implies that the child is available to be used for the purpose of sexual exploitation within the meaning of section 3

The previous definition is that a child is a person under 17. Note the use of the word "or" in the above. If it could be considered to be within any of the points set out in this section, then it could be considered to be child pornography. That's the long and the short of it. People have been caught out by the breadth of the above definition on numerous occasions.

Report it to Facebook as child pornography. Quote the above if necessary. Report it to AGS if that doesn't work. Quote the above if necessary.

I know you haven't explained the level of intimacy that the children at this disco engage in but you might note that "explicit sexual activity" is not defined in the Act and remains open for interpretation.

Little CuChulainn

hullaballoo wrote: »

From s. 2 of the Act I mentioned above:



The previous definition is that a child is a person under 17. Note the use of the word "or" in the above. If it could be considered to be within any of the points set out in this section, then it could be considered to be child pornography. That's the long and the short of it. People have been caught out by the breadth of the above definition on numerous occasions.

Report it to Facebook as child pornography. Quote the above if necessary. Report it to AGS if that doesn't work. Quote the above if necessary.

I know you haven't explained the level of intimacy that the children at this disco engage in but you might note that "explicit sexual activity" is not defined in the Act and remains open for interpretation.

That's a fairly big stretch to fit what the op has said into explicit sexual activity.

Ipro

Why do people keep saying the teens are "underage" ? Is their some kind of law law in Ireland where you have to be a Certian age to have a photograph taken?

This goes on in clubs / parties all the time, if you don't like it then make sure your kid is either dressed appropriately (which most parents should be doing anyway ) or else just don't send them to the club / party.

I'm sick of this carry on , all our family is on Facebook and one particular person refuses pictures of their kids to be uploaded on Facebook , it results in us having to ask their kids to leave group photos etc . For some reason this family member seems to think that someone online will see a picture of her children and arrive outside her front door to do indecent things with her children. People seriously need to chill out

Ipro

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thank you, that's the part I have a massive problem with, an adult recording these teens, and teens doing what they do at discos, that shouldn't be uploaded for public viewing

Why not ? They might be more likely to behave themselfs knowing that everyone (say their parents and parents friends ) are going to see.