About to lose my home

vaperous diabolous

The possession proceedings have been going through the court for the last 8 or 9 months. I have no representation as I can't afford it. I'd just like to know how long after a possession order has been granted does it take for the order to be enforced. I'm pretty sure there will be no more adjournments and to be honest, I'm contemplating contacting the banks solicitor to instruct the registrar to order it so as to avoid prolonging the saga even more. I'm going through a tough enough time as it is folks, so please, no comments such as you deserve it for not paying your mortgage. I just need an answer to my question please, and thanks.

Stheno

Have you contacted any support group to assist you?

vaperous diabolous

No. I'm unemployed. Long term (3+ yrs) and can't find a job for love nor money. I've tried letting out rooms in my house but have had no takers. Only a very few calls. Haven't contacted any support groups as I feel it's useless. The possession order will be granted. I just want to know how long I might have after the next court date. I can't find that info on citizens info or on the courts service website.

MouseTail

I don't know the answer Im afraid, maybe if you ask over in Legal Issues they may be able to answer.
Also MABS will know, and they can offer support through the process.

Zamboni

Have you tried these guys?

http://www.newbeginning.ie/services/legal

lima

Ideally as soon as possible, so that the property can be put on the market as soon as possible.

If it happened quicker then everybody would be able to get on with their lives. The market is screwed because of the slowness of repossessions.

Mrs OBumble

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

Haven't contacted any support groups as I feel it's useless. The possession order will be granted. I just want to know how long I might have after the next court date.

How long until what, exactly?

Are you planning on making them bring out a bailiff to physically evict you, or do you plan something a little more orderly?

If you cannot get tenants, then I guess it should not be difficult for you to find alternative rental accommodation for yourself in there area. Although it could be a chance to move somewhere else where there is more likelihood of employment?

vaperous diabolous

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

How long until what, exactly?

Are you planning on making them bring out a bailiff to physically evict you, or do you plan something a little more orderly?

If you cannot get tenants, then I guess it should not be difficult for you to find alternative rental accommodation for yourself in there area. Although it could be a chance to move somewhere else where there is more likelihood of employment?

Mrs OBumble, I really don't appreciate the tone of your comment. I've already said that this is a difficult time for me (and my children) and I never gave any indication that I would wait for a bailiff and automatically assuming that I'm a dissenter just because I've asked how long I have is not conducive to answering the question I've asked. I'm simply looking for solid information to tell me what is the stay on a possession order. Whether I do in fact, wait for a bailiff to evict me or not is not the issue at hand.

El_Dangeroso

OP, very sorry to hear about your situation, I don't think you should discount the support groups just because you are proceeding with the repossession. They can offer help on all sorts of aspects including securing alternative accommodation for you.

That's the best port of call.

Mrs OBumble

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

Mrs OBumble, I really don't appreciate the tone of your comment. I've already said that this is a difficult time for me (and my children) and I never gave any indication that I would wait for a bailiff and automatically assuming that I'm a dissenter just because I've asked how long I have is not conducive to answering the question I've asked. I'm simply looking for solid information to tell me what is the stay on a possession order. Whether I do in fact, wait for a bailiff to evict me or not is not the issue at hand.

I'm sorry you feel that way - but I really was not trying to be nasty.

But I genuinely don't understand what you're wanting to know.

How long till what, exactly, are you asking about?

I appreciate that you may need to wait for certain legal things to happen in order to be eligible to apply for council housing. But I suspect you would get better advice from the professional support organisations rather than randoms on the internet.

Among other things, they will know about local differences, which people here won't know about.

GavMan

Where exactly is the house that you can't get tenants?

If its in Dublin, I'd be surprised that you can't rent the rooms...

vaperous diabolous

GavMan wrote: »

Where exactly is the house that you can't get tenants?

If its in Dublin, I'd be surprised that you can't rent the rooms...

Not in Dublin. County Limerick. Bout 30 mins from the city

HIB

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

The possession proceedings have been going through the court for the last 8 or 9 months. I have no representation as I can't afford it. I'd just like to know how long after a possession order has been granted does it take for the order to be enforced. I'm pretty sure there will be no more adjournments and to be honest, I'm contemplating contacting the banks solicitor to instruct the registrar to order it so as to avoid prolonging the saga even more. I'm going through a tough enough time as it is folks, so please, no comments such as you deserve it for not paying your mortgage. I just need an answer to my question please, and thanks.

Sounds like this might be a question for someone with legal expertise in the area. They might be able to tell you how long it typically takes, in cases they've seen or heard of.

Maybe worth giving these guys a ring:

http://www.flac.ie/help/centres/limerick/

Help!!!!

how many spare rooms do you have? why not advertise as a cheap b&b?

MouseTail

lima wrote: »

Ideally as soon as possible, so that the property can be put on the market as soon as possible.

If it happened quicker then everybody would be able to get on with their lives. The market is screwed because of the slowness of repossessions.

are you not tired of banging that drum, and blaming people on their uppers for your lack of action?

lima

MouseTail wrote: »

are you not tired of banging that drum, and blaming people on their uppers for your lack of action?

Huh? I do not understand what you mean by my 'lack of action'

It is an un-normal skewed property market out there with lack of repossessions contributing to high prices. The faster they happen the better. Why on earth would I want someone to remain in their house for free?

The_Morrigan

lima wrote: »

Huh? I do not understand what you mean by my 'lack of action'

It is an un-normal skewed property market out there with lack of repossessions contributing to high prices. The faster they happen the better. Why on earth would I want someone to remain in their house for free?

Lima take your agenda elsewhere, I shouldn't have to spell out the fact that this is a sensitive subject and your contribution to this discussion is not constructive to the OP.

/Mod

Kelly06

Op, as far as I'm aware the judge will grant a warrant for Possession of the property and usually make a stay on the order for a few months to give the owner time to sort alternative accommodation. If the person doesn't leave then the sheriff / bailiff come in to take possession of the property.

What about starting a thread in the legal issues forum in the same vein to see if any people there have some better info for you? I second getting in touch with new beginnings to see can they help or advise. Also flac ( free legal advice centres) and mercy law these organisations might be of help to you.

I'm very sorry that this is happening to you and your family op... There but for the grace of god go I .... The only thing I can say is that once this process is over you will be able to move on with your life and hopefully find a home and have this weight taken off your shoulders. As for all the finger waggers out there just ignore them most of us are just a lost job away from the same fate.

Best of luck to you and your family !

kig

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I have great sympathy for people who are going to loose their home, and am annoyed by some of the comments above. Unfortunately I cannot offer any advice or help, as I am in a similar position although not quite that far down the line as you.
We have been having trouble with our mortgage for some time, but have spoken to our bank from day 1 when we thought we would be getting into trouble (as they tell you to do). Unfortunately playing by the bank's rules hasn't paid off for us.
We went through the whole process, 'negotiation', and the bank then dictated the terms of a deal, which we told them at the time, was not doable for us. We appealed and were turned down again. It's only after being through the process that you realise, that far from trying to help you, the banks are only going through the motions, because they are forced to by our government, and that all the agencies that we dealt with, who we thought were independent, ie. the IMHO, the financial ombudsman, the appeal board, are all part of the banks - set up and funded by the banks - so much for independent bodies overseeing the banks, who put us in this situation.
Anyway, I now need advice, the bank has offered us a split mortgage with a lump sum payment (cleaning out our last savings). The problem is we cannot make the monthly payment work - it will almost be half of our monthly gross income, and when you're earning in the region of €30k, you can't pay other bills, and our unworkable budget doesn't even allow for the next lot of taxes (water charges, etc) which are going to be lumped on us soon.
If we don't manage the monthly repayment set by the bank, what will happen?
Far from being a mutually acceptable, sustainable solution, which is bandied about in all their documents, we have been dictated a unworkable solution. And we get the feeling that now that the property prices are rising again, that the bank is trying to force us to sell. Alternatively we could probably let out our house, if we could only afford to rent anything that we can afford for a family of 4.
Please any advice will be gratefully received, we don't know what to do!

professore

kig wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I have great sympathy for people who are going to loose their home, and am annoyed by some of the comments above. Unfortunately I cannot offer any advice or help, as I am in a similar position although not quite that far down the line as you.
We have been having trouble with our mortgage for some time, but have spoken to our bank from day 1 when we thought we would be getting into trouble (as they tell you to do). Unfortunately playing by the bank's rules hasn't paid off for us.
We went through the whole process, 'negotiation', and the bank then dictated the terms of a deal, which we told them at the time, was not doable for us. We appealed and were turned down again. It's only after being through the process that you realise, that far from trying to help you, the banks are only going through the motions, because they are forced to by our government, and that all the agencies that we dealt with, who we thought were independent, ie. the IMHO, the financial ombudsman, the appeal board, are all part of the banks - set up and funded by the banks - so much for independent bodies overseeing the banks, who put us in this situation.
Anyway, I now need advice, the bank has offered us a split mortgage with a lump sum payment (cleaning out our last savings). The problem is we cannot make the monthly payment work - it will almost be half of our monthly gross income, and when you're earning in the region of €30k, you can't pay other bills, and our unworkable budget doesn't even allow for the next lot of taxes (water charges, etc) which are going to be lumped on us soon.
If we don't manage the monthly repayment set by the bank, what will happen?
Far from being a mutually acceptable, sustainable solution, which is bandied about in all their documents, we have been dictated a unworkable solution. And we get the feeling that now that the property prices are rising again, that the bank is trying to force us to sell. Alternatively we could probably let out our house, if we could only afford to rent anything that we can afford for a family of 4.
Please any advice will be gratefully received, we don't know what to do!

Tell them you're starting bankruptcy proceedings unless you get a more suitable deal, and do it if they don't play ball.

Otherwise you will pay them your lump sum and most of your wages and end up bankrupt anyway.

eviltwin

lima wrote: »

Huh? I do not understand what you mean by my 'lack of action'

It is an un-normal skewed property market out there with lack of repossessions contributing to high prices. The faster they happen the better. Why on earth would I want someone to remain in their house for free?

You're a real piece of work kicking someone who is down. Not everyone facing repossession is not paying. I'm going to court tomorrow as the bank want my home, we cover the mortgage plus a proportion of the arrears each month without fail, our arrears will be cleared by Christmas but its not enough for the bank so we face the cost and stress of a court appearance. Its not our fault that houses prices have gone sky high again.


OP I don't have any advice beyond talking to Irish Mortgage Holders or New Beginning, don't try and deal with this on your own.

DellyBelly

Op I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I imagine you are going through tough times and thinking you are a failure for not being able to keep a roof over your children's head but try to keep strong especially for your children. I hope everything turns out ok and your luck changes for the better

DellyBelly

Op I'm sorry to hear about your troubles. I imagine you are going through tough times and thinking you are a failure for not being able to keep a roof over your children's head but try to keep strong especially for your children. I hope everything turns out ok and your luck changes for the better.

professore

Once houses get out of negative equity the banks will close on anyone in the slightest arrears. It's so obvious.

vaperous diabolous

Have contacted new beginnings and have filled in their initial paperwork so just waiting for them to get back to me now. Thanks everybody for all of your help.

smileyj1987

Sorry to hear of your troubles OP . If you want to start planning for the future my advice would be to contact the bank directly and see can you come to some arrangement that gives you a chance to get your head together while you search for new accomadation .
I know a family who went through what is happening to you and they had a meeting with the bank and came to agreement that they would vacate the property within 2 months .
If you had a time frame it would make it easier for you to apply for things like rent allowance so you could move into a new place ASAP . I know the family where under immense stress over the whole situation and once it was resolved they could actually move on with their life once they let their home .

kig

We are going to see Flac, in a few weeks, we also can't afford to get an accountant or lawyer. Also we have arranged to meet the Phoenix Project, also in a few weeks. The earliest we can arrange unfortunately, so we'll be chewing our nails for a while. I just hope we can stall the bank till we know our options.

MouseTail

@kig, have you explored the mortgage to rent scheme? Might be a better solution for you.

HelenV

kig wrote: »

Sorry to hear of your troubles, I have great sympathy for people who are going to loose their home, and am annoyed by some of the comments above. Unfortunately I cannot offer any advice or help, as I am in a similar position although not quite that far down the line as you.
We have been having trouble with our mortgage for some time, but have spoken to our bank from day 1 when we thought we would be getting into trouble (as they tell you to do). Unfortunately playing by the bank's rules hasn't paid off for us.
We went through the whole process, 'negotiation', and the bank then dictated the terms of a deal, which we told them at the time, was not doable for us. We appealed and were turned down again. It's only after being through the process that you realise, that far from trying to help you, the banks are only going through the motions, because they are forced to by our government, and that all the agencies that we dealt with, who we thought were independent, ie. the IMHO, the financial ombudsman, the appeal board, are all part of the banks - set up and funded by the banks - so much for independent bodies overseeing the banks, who put us in this situation.
Anyway, I now need advice, the bank has offered us a split mortgage with a lump sum payment (cleaning out our last savings). The problem is we cannot make the monthly payment work - it will almost be half of our monthly gross income, and when you're earning in the region of €30k, you can't pay other bills, and our unworkable budget doesn't even allow for the next lot of taxes (water charges, etc) which are going to be lumped on us soon.
If we don't manage the monthly repayment set by the bank, what will happen?
Far from being a mutually acceptable, sustainable solution, which is bandied about in all their documents, we have been dictated a unworkable solution. And we get the feeling that now that the property prices are rising again, that the bank is trying to force us to sell. Alternatively we could probably let out our house, if we could only afford to rent anything that we can afford for a family of 4.
Please any advice will be gratefully received, we don't know what to do!

I'm so sorry for those on here experiencing mortgage difficulties.

I know you've all said ye cannot afford to engage a solicitor but really can you afford not to. The government and banks have done a very good job in leading people to believe they can do their own negotiating and constantly banging the drum about how expensive they are. Do you notice the way they are the very ones who won't budge an inch without getting legal advice themselves - simply because they know the value of it.

There are a lot of very sharp, very sympathetic solicitors out there who would help for a very reasonable fee and their input is invaluable.

I work in a legal practice, I know my way around the various systems but I wouldn't even dream of negotiating with the banks without a good lawyer.

A solicitor is the ONLY one representing the interests of the mortgagee - the state and financial institutions are out for themselves.

Most judges are very sympathetic to homeowners - although I've no doubt it happens I've yet to see a judge putting someone out of their home if he is making a genuine effort to meet repayments.

The bankruptcy suggestion is a good one but I'd be worried they'd grab any savings into the bargain. Just be careful

eviltwin

My solicitor has been great charging a very reasonable fee and letting us pay in instalments so definitely as Helen says phone a few and see what they say.

seanaway

Terrible to hear of people losing their homes to those who caused teh problems.

I can't answer your question but I wish you the best of luck.

The_Morrigan

seanaway wrote: »

Terrible to hear of people losing their homes to those who caused teh problems.

I can't answer your question but I wish you the best of luck.

seanaway that's not quite right to be fair, although I'm sympathetic to those in financial difficulty they are also responsible for their own actions.
Please don't make this a 'them vs us' debate - it won't be tolerated.

MouseTail

May I suggest it may be useful to have a sticky in the forum with links to support agencies like MABS, newbeginnings, keepingyouhome etc? I do think this issue will become a source of more prevalent queries as house prices rise.

The_Morrigan

MouseTail wrote: »

May I suggest it may be useful to have a sticky in the forum with links to support agencies like MABS, newbeginnings, keepingyouhome etc? I do think this issue will become a source of more prevalent queries as house prices rise.

I've been working on such a thing for a few hours already- but it's quite the enormous task to compile.

MouseTail

The_Morrigan wrote: »

I've been working on such a thing for a few hours already- but it's quite the enormous task to compile.

Great minds... Im sure lots of posters, myself included are willing to help out once the initial draft is done.

The_Morrigan

MouseTail wrote: »

Great minds... Im sure lots of posters, myself included are willing to help out once the initial draft is done.

Yes I will throw up what I have either tonight or tomorrow and then people can send me any further information via pm to update the thread.

gaius c

Maybe mark which ones are "official" and which ones are ad hoc populist groupings.
Nobody here should be directed towards New Beginnings without some sort of warning that they are comprised of freeman loonies.

HelenV

The_Morrigan wrote: »

seanaway that's not quite right to be fair, although I'm sympathetic to those in financial difficulty they are also responsible for their own actions.
Please don't make this a 'them vs us' debate - it won't be tolerated.

Would you not agree though that many of those now in financial difficulties are only PARTLY responsible for their own actions, the financial institutions / state etc. bearing a large part of that responsibility also. Surely if we bailed out the banks they are duty bound to do their homework properly and suss out homeowners who find themselves in genuine difficulty.

The banks are going some way in writing down business debts; surely to God it makes economic sense to try to come sort of arrangement with homeowners too. People have been paying interest only at exorbitant rates for the past six years, trying their damndest, to keep their homes.

Where there's a will there's a way.

The_Morrigan

HelenV wrote: »

Would you not agree though that many of those now in financial difficulties are only PARTLY responsible for their own actions, the financial institutions / state etc. bearing a large part of that responsibility also. Surely if we bailed out the banks they are duty bound to do their homework properly and suss out homeowners who find themselves in genuine difficulty.

The banks are going some way in writing down business debts; surely to God it makes economic sense to try to come sort of arrangement with homeowners too. People have been paying interest only at exorbitant rates for the past six years, trying their damndest, to keep their homes.

Where there's a will there's a way.

That isn't what seanaway said though..

Look I worked in a retail bank when a lot of people were taking out credit they couldn't afford, there were loans being taken from credit unions as they weren't part of the ICB reports at the time. You had parents remortgaging houses for 'renovations' but handing over the money to their kids, over inflated income being given in applications. Applications accepting massive celtic tiger bonus as a given income etc/

I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, but I've seen first hand what banking customers can do if they want to buy or build their dream home to keep up with the neighbours.

You also have to keep in mind that at the time all the UK banks were starting to set up shop here and with their vast global pot of monies they were able to quote rates that were far lower than the national banks, this in turn meant that to keep up with the competition the national banks were trying to lower their rates as well...this was unsustainable and was a contributing factor in this whole mess.

I think the banks should be able to compromise with their customers on repayments and be able to negotiate some form of a deal, but I cannot wholeheartedly agree that 'the banks caused the mess' they did not hold a gun to anyones head when it came to applying for and drawing down on a mortgage/car loan/credit card.

HelenV

The_Morrigan wrote: »

That isn't what seanaway said though..

Look I worked in a retail bank when a lot of people were taking out credit they couldn't afford, there were loans being taken from credit unions as they weren't part of the ICB reports at the time. You had parents remortgaging houses for 'renovations' but handing over the money to their kids, over inflated income being given in applications. Applications accepting massive celtic tiger bonus as a given income etc/

I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, but I've seen first hand what banking customers can do if they want to buy or build their dream home to keep up with the neighbours.

You also have to keep in mind that at the time all the UK banks were starting to set up shop here and with their vast global pot of monies they were able to quote rates that were far lower than the national banks, this in turn meant that to keep up with the competition the national banks were trying to lower their rates as well...this was unsustainable and was a contributing factor in this whole mess.

I think the banks should be able to compromise with their customers on repayments and be able to negotiate some form of a deal, but I cannot wholeheartedly agree that 'the banks caused the mess' they did not hold a gun to anyones head when it came to applying for and drawing down on a mortgage/car loan/credit card.

I completely agree with a lot of what you say - customers were indeed over borrowing and many were trying to "keep up with the Jones'". That aside though, every time I switched on the TV there were adds encouraging young people to borrow for the purposes of buying their own homes (being independent!!) flying to the four corners of the earth etc. etc.

The government was also constantly banging the drum of "no money to pay pensions" in a few years time so many got scared, bought an apartment they could rent for the sole purpose of providing them with a pension in the future. I would have thought this was being somewhat responsible but yes indeed it backfired.

The country has landed itself in an unholy mess - I just don't think it's fair that those who tried to better their lot slightly, so as not to be a burden on society in later years, but now finding that due to circumstances beyond their control they are being so severely punished.

The_Morrigan

Life is unfortunately not fair - I was in a very stable job until a UK company took over a few years ago and absolutely annihilated the Irish workforce. I've been out of work nearly a year now and if it wasn't for the advertisments about mortgage protection I would be losing my home. I can completely understand both sides of the coin here having worked in the industry, being a home owner and of course being an unemployed homeowner trying to pay my financial obligations on the pittance that is the JSB. I'm lucky I had insurance, I'm luckier than most that I was allowed take a 3 month break on my mortgage until I sorted out my insurance and my social welfare payments and a lodger.

vaperous diabolous

I'll tell you how I got my mortgage. My broker faked a document which stated that I, a father of 4 children with a partner at the time, would let out 2 rooms in my 3 bedroom house for€550 a month between them. I know this because I asked for copies all my documents some time ago and instead of just copies I was given the originals also. In going through them, I found this document.

How a bank actually believed that a father of 4 would take out a mortgage only to let out the rooms which were earmarked for his children beggars belief.

The_Morrigan

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

I'll tell you how I got my mortgage. My broker faked a document which stated that I, a father of 4 children with a partner at the time, would let out 2 rooms in my 3 bedroom house for€550 a month between them. I know this because I asked for copies all my documents some time ago and instead of just copies I was given the originals also. In going through them, I found this document.

How a bank actually believed that a father of 4 would take out a mortgage only to let out the rooms which were earmarked for his children beggars belief.

Ah brokers, yes some of those commission based guys were ruthless at times.
But, typical Irish banks don't work on commission so the staff didn't have any incentive to do stuff like this.

Did you take action against the broker for providing false documents to the bank without your knowledge?

El_Dangeroso

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

I'll tell you how I got my mortgage. My broker faked a document which stated that I, a father of 4 children with a partner at the time, would let out 2 rooms in my 3 bedroom house for€550 a month between them. I know this because I asked for copies all my documents some time ago and instead of just copies I was given the originals also. In going through them, I found this document.

How a bank actually believed that a father of 4 would take out a mortgage only to let out the rooms which were earmarked for his children beggars belief.

OMG that's shocking, he did that without your knowledge? How is that even legal?

vaperous diabolous

No. I have considered it for quite a while but thought that it would be of no use as this man is of a very high standing in Irish society. I have been told not to because no solicitor will touch it. What makes it worse, he is, or at least used to be, touting financial advice on RTE television for years. Don't know if he still is.

h2005

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

I'll tell you how I got my mortgage. My broker faked a document which stated that I, a father of 4 children with a partner at the time, would let out 2 rooms in my 3 bedroom house for€550 a month between them. I know this because I asked for copies all my documents some time ago and instead of just copies I was given the originals also. In going through them, I found this document.

How a bank actually believed that a father of 4 would take out a mortgage only to let out the rooms which were earmarked for his children beggars belief.

I presume you've taken action against the broker?

The_Morrigan

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

No. I have considered it for quite a while but thought that it would be of no use as this man is of a very high standing in Irish society. I have been told not to because no solicitor will touch it. What makes it worse, he is, or at least used to be, touting financial advice on RTE television for years. Don't know if he still is.

This irks me, I hate the attitude that some people are above the law.
The Gardai maybe interested in this especially if the guy did it to more than one customer.

vaperous diabolous

The_Morrigan wrote: »

This irks me, I hate the attitude that some people are above the law.
The Gardai maybe interested in this especially if the guy did it to more than one customer.

Very good point. I may take it to a solicitor tomorrow.

The_Morrigan

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

Very good point. I may take it to a solicitor tomorrow.

Make sure you keep the originals of everything you have to date;
Pain in the backside, but copy every single piece of paper you have from the transaction and all dealings you've had with the bank since. Things do have a habit of getting lost when you are dealing with people who aren't so concerned about the issue.

Good luck with it.

dricko_lim

vaperous diabolous wrote: »

Very good point. I may take it to a solicitor tomorrow.

If you were to complain to the Financial Services Ombudsman about the broker. the statute of limitations is 6 years from the date of the 'offence' i.e. the forged document. Keep that in mind...

vaperous diabolous

I think that may have passed this month