Doctor Who Run through

flazio

Myrddin wrote: »

I look forward to it

On another note, at what point should I start to watch Torchwood? I presume it runs concurrently alongside Doctor Who, ala Stargate SG1/Stargate Atlantis?

Whenever you want, but try to have Series 1 of Torchwood finished before you reach Episode 10 of Series 3 Doctor Who.

Mr.Saturn

If I could do it over again, I'd just watch series 3 of Torchwood (which runs during Who's 2009 Specials run) and leave the rest to rot. It's one of the best pieces of sci-fi ever, but it is in no way a reflection on the quality of the rest of Torchwood's run, which went from embarrassingly bad to, at best, consistently decent.

Series 1 is handy if you fancy getting shot by stray cringe bullets. That's how jarring the attempt was to make it an 'adult' Who.

"Oh, hey, here's a relatively innocuous scene, how can we make it about sex?'

Angron

Strangest thing about Torchwood for me was the accents. It's so hard to take the Welsh accent seriously, it's just really silly sounding.

Overall though, I liked it, though I was a big fan of Captain Jack in general anyway.

Doctor DooM

Skip S1 of torchwood unless you are a major completionist.

It occurs after S2 of Doctor Who.

S2 of Torchwood is ok, I believe it takes place after S3 of Who.

S3 of Torchwood, AKA Children of Earth, is amazing, RTD when he's great AND has Peter Capalding all over the place. MAKE SURE you have this watched before the David Tennant specials.

S4, Miracle Day, eh, watch whenever. It's only very tangetially attached to Who and overlong.

Das Kitty

Children of Earth is devastating.

Brilliant television.

Myrddin

flazio wrote: »

Whenever you want, but try to have Series 1 of Torchwood finished before you reach Episode 10 of Series 3 Doctor Who.

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Skip S1 of torchwood unless you are a major completionist.

It occurs after S2 of Doctor Who.

S2 of Torchwood is ok, I believe it takes place after S3 of Who.

S3 of Torchwood, AKA Children of Earth, is amazing, RTD when he's great AND has Peter Capalding all over the place. MAKE SURE you have this watched before the David Tennant specials.

S4, Miracle Day, eh, watch whenever. It's only very tangetially attached to Who and overlong.

I would be a bit of a completionist, so should I pause my Dr Who run through now (mid way through S3) & begin torchwood? I didn't think Torchwood began so early

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

I would be a bit of a completionist, so should I pause my Dr Who run through now (mid way through S3) & begin torchwood? I didn't think Torchwood began so early

It's not spoiling much to say that the last episode of Torchwood S1 ties into DW S3's final arc in an incredibly minor way. So yeah, if you're brave enough to get through it, do it before then.

May the Face of Boe have mercy on your soul!

(SMall aside- if you're really completionist, there're some appearances of the Doctor in the Sarah Jane Adventures and many shorts through out the years. If you like, I could put them all together in a post)

Myrddin

Doctor DooM wrote: »

It's not spoiling much to say that the last episode of Torchwood S1 ties into DW S3's final arc in an incredibly minor way. So yeah, if you're brave enough to get through it, do it before then.

May the Face of Boe have mercy on your soul!

Is it that bad yeah?

(SMall aside- if you're really completionist, there're some appearances of the Doctor in the Sarah Jane Adventures and many shorts through out the years. If you like, I could put them all together in a post)

Absolutely, t'would be most appreciated

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

Is it that bad yeah?



Absolutely, t'would be most appreciated

I would say some of the episodes of series 1 approach average.

Really, it's AWFUL.

I like the rest of TW but RTD was acting like a 4 year old in S1.

I'll knock something together tonight for you

Mr.Saturn

RTD had very little to do with series 1 and 2 of Torchwood. He did the pilot and let Chibnall have run of the shop; RTD documents the fact in 'A Writer's Tale'.
Spoilering since Myd might be watching it.

You can see in Series 3 of Torchwood when RTD has taken over the reins once more, namely the Torchwood jeep, that for a clandestine organisation, was a jet black landrover with 'TORCHWOOD' emblazoned on its roof in bold yellow. RTD dumped that, before, yanno, dumping the jeep.

Doctor DooM

Ok, with the best will in the world, I'm going to miss some of these out. But hopefully I'll get the majority.

Tennant extras:

2005 children in need special AKA Born again- should have watched this after the first series. Sorry! Suprisingly deep characterisation for a CIN special.

TIme Crash- written by Moffat- watch this between end of series 3 and Christmas special. This is a lot of fun if you've any pre 2005 Doctor Who knowledge.

Music of the Spheres- watch any time, a throw away special for the proms. Fun

The Wedding of Sarah Jane Smith parts 1 and 2- watch after season 4. I think.

Doctor DooM

Smith Era Specials:

Space/ Time:

Two specials, not one name. Watch after series 5.

Night and the Doctor:

If you want exact times to watch these minisodes, you'll need to look up the tardis wiki, but I watched them all happily at the end of Season 6.

Death is the only answer: The Doctor meets Einstein, watch after the Big Bang.

Good as gold: An Olymics tie in, technically comes after the Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe.

The Death of Sarah Jane Smith: Watch after A Good Man goes to war

The great Detective: Prequel to the Snowmen

The Night of the Doctor: Probably the most special short on this entire list. comes before The Day of the Doctor (50th anniversary special).

There's also 2 animated specials with Tennant if you're REALLY completionist.

Doctor DooM

Told you I'd miss some...


Rain gods: Before The Doctor Wife...

Inforarium- before series 7

Clara and the Tardis- end of series 7

I will no doubt be back when I remember more.

Myrddin

Great, thanks for that Doom! Will have to do a bit of catching up now between Torchwood & the specials

Doctor DooM

OOOOOOH the Pond life shorts!!! Before season 7!!!

This is insane, how many shorts do they have? I haven't even mentioned the out of continuity ones.

EDIT: PS is another one, after the season break in season 7...

flazio

I'd go so far and say just watch Sarah Jane Adventures through as you are going to do with Torchwood, among the farting Slitheen and the odd bit of gunge there's actually some pretty decent stories there. In my opinion 'Whatever Happened To Sarah Jane' is as fine a piece of drama that even it's parent show came up with, that's probably why it's baddie had influences over both Doctor Who and Torchwood stories. Series 1 can be watched after DW Series 3 and Series 2 opens with a tie in to a DW Series 4 story.
Series 4 had that magical moment when the 11th Doctor not only came face to face with Sarah Jane but also her predecessor all those years ago Jo Jones (nee Grant).

Myrddin

I'm just under half way through Season 1 of Torchwood....and dare I say it.....I'm not finding it too bad Granted I went in with extremely low expectations...but yeah...

ThunbergsAreGo

Cannot warm to Amy at all, really like Rory though

She comes across as a complete B*tch!

Also not really mad on Moffet, preferred the previous writing.

Smith onwards, the storylines really do get a bit all over the place with nonsensical plots

Myrddin

Finished Doctor Who season 3, & am half way through Season 2 of Torchwood. Utterly enjoying both I have to say

Mr.Saturn

Am I to take it you ran through series 1 of Torchwood, then?

Myrddin

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

Am I to take it you ran through series 1 of Torchwood, then?

Yep I'm current now in so far as I've watched everything from the start. Really enjoying Torchwood (and Doctor Who obviously!)

crazyderk

Started slowly watching the first season with Matt smith just watched the two parter with the Angels

Didn't anyone ever tell you, there's one thing you never put in a trap if you're smart? If you value your continued existence. If you have any plans about seeing tomorrow, there's one thing you never, ever put in a trap... Me.

Quality line!

Slutmonkey57b

Halfway through season 5 in the re-watch.

I have to say Martha was the worst companion, the character is supposed to be a medical student but is written like a whingy younger version of Rose. Much like Clara when she first appeared the writers don't seem to know how to write her, but Freema doesn't have the charisma of Jenna to cover the gaps.

Tennant was an excellent doctor, but all the "snarly running face" acting just looks ridiculous. The gulf in production values and cinematography between season 4 and 5 is shocking. Season 5 looks like prime time TV, season 4 looks like a cbbc series.

Smith is a fantastic doctor straight off the bat. The Beast Below feels like a S3 episode in naffness and production quality.

Doctor DooM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

Halfway through season 5 in the re-watch.

I have to say Martha was the worst companion, the character is supposed to be a medical student but is written like a whingy younger version of Rose. Much like Clara when she first appeared the writers don't seem to know how to write her, but Freema doesn't have the charisma of Jenna to cover the gaps.

Tennant was an excellent doctor, but all the "snarly running face" acting just looks ridiculous. The gulf in production values and cinematography between season 4 and 5 is shocking. Season 5 looks like prime time TV, season 4 looks like a cbbc series.

Smith is a fantastic doctor straight off the bat. The Beast Below feels like a S3 episode in naffness and production quality.

To be fair that wasn't the production teams fault- they moved from SD to HD between seasons 4 and 5!

Slutmonkey57b

I think that makes some of the difference, but the lighting, shot work, set design, direction, all seemed to take a dramatic jump in quality too. I wonder what the difference in budget between the two series was, and what changed on the production end of things. Don't forger S5 had not just new lead actors, but a new show runner and also new producers.

S3/4 had small, bare sets with close-framed shots and unsubtle lighting. There was a pretty clear amount of re-use of sets too. (the "pipework-y industrial building" and "dusty quarry" sets in particular got a lot of re-use. Compare the work done in S5's Hungry Earth double parter or the Venice episode with S3's "End of the universe/Master returns". S3 looks almost like a fan movie in comparison, and that was a big end-of-season finale.

Doctor DooM

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I think that makes some of the difference, but the lighting, shot work, set design, direction, all seemed to take a dramatic jump in quality too. I wonder what the difference in budget between the two series was, and what changed on the production end of things. Don't forger S5 had not just new lead actors, but a new show runner and also new producers.

S3/4 had small, bare sets with close-framed shots and unsubtle lighting. There was a pretty clear amount of re-use of sets too. (the "pipework-y industrial building" and "dusty quarry" sets in particular got a lot of re-use. Compare the work done in S5's Hungry Earth double parter or the Venice episode with S3's "End of the universe/Master returns". S3 looks almost like a fan movie in comparison, and that was a big end-of-season finale.

Not saying you're wrong, you're not, but that's because of the same thing! When you're shooting in HD instead of SD the minimum quality of the set dressing increases because all the little imperfections you used to be able to hide- effectively through artifacting or screen blur- are now painfully visible (as a kid I will never forget how shabby the bridge of the Enterprise D looked in person when they brought it to Ireland).

That's part of why the Tardis gets redone so often these days, as the set gets worn it's way more obvious in HD when it's looking ragged!

flazio

The series 4 to 5 change was indeed to do with the change to HD however the change midway through Series 7 (downgrade IMO) was because they had moved studio.

Myrddin

Still going with this, & bloody loving it! I'm up as far as the 2009 Easter Special of Doctor Who (still season 4?), and I'm on season 3 of Torchwood (Day 4 tonight). Torchwood has really picked up, I enjoyed it previously but season 3 raises the bar for itself. I'm absolutely dreading when Tennant's end comes about, he's really, really good as the Doctor

Slutmonkey57b

I was watching series 6 and there's an episode which I never liked before about monsters in the cupboard. On re-watching it's a fantastic episode for a different reason: the posh, well spoken doctor who with his boho chic companion and her solidly middle class husband visiting the set of doctor who series 2.

Rory: "errr... we could have got a bus here" excellently conveys both "why would we come HERE?" and "euuugh, buses"

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

Still going with this, & bloody loving it! I'm up as far as the 2009 Easter Special of Doctor Who (still season 4?), and I'm on season 3 of Torchwood (Day 4 tonight). Torchwood has really picked up, I enjoyed it previously but season 3 raises the bar for itself. I'm absolutely dreading when Tennant's end comes about, he's really, really good as the Doctor

Trust me, you'll be like everyone else, be all ugh-I-don't-like-the-idea-of-a-new-doctor then you'll be all unsure about Matt Smith then suddenly Capaldi will be taking over and you'll realise he was really, REALLY good.

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

I was watching series 6 and there's an episode which I never liked before about monsters in the cupboard. On re-watching it's a fantastic episode for a different reason: the posh, well spoken doctor who with his boho chic companion and her solidly middle class husband visiting the set of doctor who series 2.

Rory: "errr... we could have got a bus here" excellently conveys both "why would we come HERE?" and "euuugh, buses"

I have found the Moffat era full of one liners you don't notice til 2 or 3 views in

Das Kitty

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I have found the Moffat era full of one liners you don't notice til 2 or 3 views in

Matt Smith tends to trip over them a bit.

There are loads in A Christmas Carol (requested by youngling #1 last week).

I think the Moffat era is great for rewatching. I found the re-watch of Series 1-4 difficult, but once I got to 5, I was loving it.

The stand out episode for me in S6 is The God Complex. On first viewing I thought it was okay, but after rewatching 3 or 4 times I love it. In fact I'd watch it again right now. Lots of thinking in it.

Myrddin

Ugh, season 5...new intro/theme tune I found the ending of Tennant's incarnation pretty sad. I'm only one episode into season 5, but Smith seems like he has potential. I gather he's got a season or two is it?

Torchwood: Children of Earth = brilliant. Jack is a charismatic individual, but yet so bloody cold

Slutmonkey57b

You're in for a treat.

Check out the interior of the new tardis, it's utterly sumptuous and fascinating compared to the old one. Like a children's playground crossed with a quirky Aladdin's cave curio shop, which keeps the tone of Matt Smith's doctor.

Myrddin

Slutmonkey57b wrote: »

You're in for a treat.

Check out the interior of the new tardis, it's utterly sumptuous and fascinating compared to the old one. Like a children's playground crossed with a quirky Aladdin's cave curio shop, which keeps the tone of Matt Smith's doctor.

You weren't lying, it's really rich & mysterious inside now. Also, Smith himself is quite strong & likeable even at the early stage I'm at in Season 5.

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

You weren't lying, it's really rich & mysterious inside now. Also, Smith himself is quite strong & likeable even at the early stage I'm at in Season 5.

I waaaay prefer Smith to Tennant in retrospect.

crazyderk

I just finished the wedding of river song. that was a good season to be fair.

I like it when there's massive story arc over the season.

Love the most recent episode with stormageddon!

Myrddin

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I waaaay prefer Smith to Tennant in retrospect.

I'm not sure I'm quite there (yet), but I can see why you feel this way. Smith, is utterly brilliant as the doctor. I don't know why, but I was dreading his incarnation for no apparent reason. He's been a true delight though, and while Tennant was cool, perhaps he was a bit too cool? Smith is so quirky, with an almost child-like fascination about things, rather than an almost arrogant omnipotence that Tennant's incarnation of the doctor seemed to devleop near his end. I'm about half way through the season, just finished the 'dream lord' episode "Amy's Choice".

By the way, speaking of, I'm liking Amelia too. There isn't a whole lot of substance to her yet, and she seems like she's just white-water rapiding along, but she's good nonetheless.

pixelburp

Myrddin wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm quite there (yet), but I can see why you feel this way. Smith, is utterly brilliant as the doctor. I don't know why, but I was dreading his incarnation for no apparent reason. He's been a true delight though, and while Tennant was cool, perhaps he was a bit too cool? Smith is so quirky, with an almost child-like fascination about things, rather than an almost arrogant omnipotence that Tennant's incarnation of the doctor seemed to devleop near his end. I'm about half way through the season, just finished the 'dream lord' episode "Amy's Choice".

Looking at his impact, I always get the impression Smith's doctor made the biggest impression on children and the younger members of the audience, and probably for the reasons outlined above. Of the four 'new' incarnations - well, five really with Hurt's portrayal - Smith was the most overtly childlike and silly. That mixture of happy curiousity and daft chaos children seem to adore. And I adored, if I'm being honest It must have been a helluva gear shift for kids used to Smith's particular silliness to suddenly have this curmudgeonly crank in charge of the TARDIS

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

I'm not sure I'm quite there (yet), but I can see why you feel this way. Smith, is utterly brilliant as the doctor. I don't know why, but I was dreading his incarnation for no apparent reason. He's been a true delight though, and while Tennant was cool, perhaps he was a bit too cool? Smith is so quirky, with an almost child-like fascination about things, rather than an almost arrogant omnipotence that Tennant's incarnation of the doctor seemed to devleop near his end. I'm about half way through the season, just finished the 'dream lord' episode "Amy's Choice".

By the way, speaking of, I'm liking Amelia too. There isn't a whole lot of substance to her yet, and she seems like she's just white-water rapiding along, but she's good nonetheless.

For me Tennant was approaching self parody at the end. The whole "I AM A GOD" thing got really old but at the same time the pay off for it felt kinda forced... I don't know. That said, I've loved Who for a long time now and without doubt he's been part of some of my favourite moments in it.

I think part of me preferring Smith is that he got out just before that happened for me with him. He went from new, fresh and funny to confident in his role then he was gone.

On top of that, and I've expounded on this elsewhere, there was a baseline of awful in Tennants era that doesn't appear in Smiths (not saying Smith's didn't have bad episodes- he had some stinkers all right, just no farting aliens and the like that actually embarrassed me in front of friends who gave the show a try) and that has just made the show feel more directed, slick and enjoyable over all for me.

pixelburp wrote: »

Looking at his impact, I always get the impression Smith's doctor made the biggest impression on children and the younger members of the audience, and probably for the reasons outlined above. Of the four 'new' incarnations - well, five really with Hurt's portrayal - Smith was the most overtly childlike and silly. That mixture of happy curiousity and daft chaos children seem to adore. And I adored, if I'm being honest It must have been a helluva gear shift for kids used to Smith's particular silliness to suddenly have this curmudgeonly crank in charge of the TARDIS

Seeing Smith interact with children was always magic. Tennant was great at it too, and although I think Capaldi is more than happy to also from stories I've read, I think the new Doctor's personality keeps him from it too much

Myrddin

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I waaaay prefer Smith to Tennant in retrospect.

Ok, it's official now

Mr.Saturn

Doctor DooM wrote: »

For me Tennant was approaching self parody at the end. The whole "I AM A GOD" thing got really old but at the same time the pay off for it felt kinda forced... I don't know. That said, I've loved Who for a long time now and without doubt he's been part of some of my favourite moments in it.

I was a big fan of how Moffat gently parodied this 'Lonely Angel/Epic Speech' trope throughout Smith's run. Sure, there's the more overt bits where he scripted Tennant to hit overreact when confronted with the bunny in the 50th special, the 'oncoming storm' bit (he'd done simlar with Smith in the Lodger) but there's few more tidbits. Like, whenever 11 pulls out the veiled 'I am a god' shtick, it invariably was either useless or hubris. Stonehenge or The Battle of Demon's Run. Hell, even the Akhaten one saw The Doctor relatively ill-equipped.

I know it's been a matter of much debate as to Moffat's inclination to compicate arcs, but he has truly pulled the odd genius one. The retcon of 10's final line "I don't want to go" from overwrought feels-bait to setting up the Trenzalore stuff was pretty brilliant, and more brilliant was it was still the last words 10 said.

I recall Moffat referenced this intention when interview by Doctor Who magazine before the relaunch, the "The Doctor's at his best when he's the one in the corner say 'no, I'm not letting this happen'."

pixelburp

Mr.Saturn wrote: »

[...]

I know it's been a matter of much debate as to Moffat's inclination to compicate arcs, but he has truly pulled the odd genius one. The retcon of 10's final line "I don't want to go" from overwrought feels-bait to setting up the Trenzalore stuff was pretty brilliant, and more brilliant was it was still the last words 10 said.

Ha, I remember the line in the 50th special, but I never made the connection that it might have been a re-working of 10's last lines. I just thought it was a poignant callback to the regeneration scene, but now that you mention it, it does cast those otherwise melodramatic lines in a new light

I think Moffat had no choice in parodying the 'lonely god' angle because by the time he took over, that arc had been escalated to near ludicrous levels both emotionally and as a plot device. The doctor had been literally turned into a Messianic figure and if it wasn't Moffat in charge, whoever else it was would have taken the same path. As #11 himself remarked at the end of season 6, he had become 'too noisy'

Myrddin

The Angels Take Manhattan -

Farewell Pond I really liked Amelia, & it was such a surprise/emotional ending for her & Rory.

I've paused at this point now in Season 7, in order to go back & watch the final season of Torchwood.

Myrddin

I've the final episode of Miracle Day to watch tonight, & that's it, Torchwood done. I have to say, this season in particular but the rest too I've really, really enjoyed. Fantastic stuff. I see Barrowman said in Jan or something there's more radio shows of Torchwood coming?

Doctor DooM

Myrddin wrote: »

I've the final episode of Miracle Day to watch tonight, & that's it, Torchwood done. I have to say, this season in particular but the rest too I've really, really enjoyed. Fantastic stuff. I see Barrowman said in Jan or something there's more radio shows of Torchwood coming?

I'm not sure about the TW radio shows- but I'm really surprised you enjoyed the first series, whatever about the rest (2 and 3 are v good IMO) I thought that stank to high heaven

Myrddin

Doctor DooM wrote: »

I'm not sure about the TW radio shows- but I'm really surprised you enjoyed the first series, whatever about the rest (2 and 3 are v good IMO) I thought that stank to high heaven

I think based on what you folks had said about it, I went into season 1 with really, really low expectations. As a result, I found myself thinking it wasn't all that bad (despite it being admittedly ropey in places). Though, I always tend to be somewhat forgiving of first seasons in any show too, so many great shows have had really awful starts!

Mr.Saturn

If Miracle Day's length was cut by maybe 3-4 episodes, I feel it'd be right up beside Children of Earth in terms of quality. It felt like Gwen spent the last 5 episodes jumping back and forth each scene between the US and Wales.

Myrddin

Well, I'm done now with Torchwood I know what you mean about the length of Miracle Day, it could have been condensed and focused a little more, but on the whole I'm not complaining too much given it's the end of the shows run I thoroughly enjoyed Miracle Day, as I did Children of Earth & Season 2.

I'll get back on track now with Who, resuming with Season 8's Xmas Special - The Snowmen...

flazio

Myrddin wrote: »

Well, I'm done now with Torchwood I know what you mean about the length of Miracle Day, it could have been condensed and focused a little more, but on the whole I'm not complaining too much given it's the end of the shows run I thoroughly enjoyed Miracle Day, as I did Children of Earth & Season 2.

I'll get back on track now with Who, resuming with Season 8's Xmas Special - The Snowmen...

If you can, check out The Sarah Jane Adventures, most fans dismissed it as kiddies fluff but it actually came out with some really mature stories that stand up to anything that Doctor Who was churning out at the time. Examples being "Whatever happened to Sarah Jane " and pretty much anything written by Joseph Lidster.

Mr.Saturn

The 10 and 11 Doctors also turn up in a couple of sweet episodes of Sarah Jane Adventures. If anything, SJA is a sweet call-back to Older Who. It doesn't rely on CGI nearly as much as the main show and Torchwood, so it's got an endearing DIY feel to it. Note: 'DIY' does not equal extra rubber and wobbly walls.