***MatchThread*** 22nd Jul 21:00 COLM Ballalley

helimachoptor

I definitely agree with Derek here, the last 3 games in particular i think he's been isolated.

We are conceding more goals for sure, though i think thats down to a number of factors.

I think the midfield need to trust the back 4 to keep the ball out, the midfielders need to push on and support our attacks more because all thats happening is the ball is breaking down with Derek or not getting to him due to 3 defenders being around him which then leads to pressure and the midfield come deeper to try and help break it up.

the midfielders should be pushing forward, the full backs should be pushing forward, they can cover if we are countered. We have 2 excellent centre halfs and a quality keeper, we will concede a goal due to that approach but we will score more than we concede imo.


The reality of the situation is that we are in a position where we must win our 3 games, we need to play smart but we also need to score.

Keaner

I agree I think we need to recognise when the game needs to be slowed down and pass it about looking for easy passes in defence and midfield because sometime we look to keep attacking when it would be better to pass back take a breather and kill a bit of time while knowing the other team is getting frustrated looking to score.
Yesterday we went long ball when they had two men off which didn't help us when we could have been spreading the play making them chase us. Just things we should recognise at the time when we have the numbers advantage or goal advantage .
Agree with Helimacopters post too and Dereks about being isolated! I think we pushed further forward early season but wev dropped back a little recently! Weve better attack then most teams, we will concede but we should still out score whoever we play!

3 Games 3 WINS!! Lets not let ballalley win without serious pressure from behind.....lol

helimachoptor

yeah i think that comes from what has happened, Ed is right we have dropped points when we shouldnt have, but we need to recognise goals are flying in all over the place in Knocylyon, the defense needs to be trusted to keep the ball out (as much as reasonably possible) midfield needs to support the attack.

Pushing more men into their half makes it harder for the opposition to play the ball out & should result in them hoofing it for which murtagh and Conor are well able to handle or trying to play it out, them losing possession in a dangerous area and us scoring

Mousewar

Good chance Cork will do something against Ballalley alright.
They stuffed Brown Bag 9 nil last night. :eek:

homerjay2005

errm lads come on, the reason the games have been closer in the last few weeks is down to the quality of opposition - Cork and Ballalley are very good teams, they are both in the running to win the league. weve beaten alot of very poor teams this year and i think when the bigger games have come, we have struggled as the space we get is not there - that however is normal.

are ye that naive to think that we are going to have it all our own way in games against teams who overall, may actually be every bit as good as us?

we need a reality check in some games and stop thinking we have a devine right to win them without putting the necessary effort in.

we played very well last night but their were a physically strong team that knew what to do without the ball (foul, push players off the ball, kick the ball away etc etc) and it worked for them. we should have won it and perhaps would have won it, had we we not

a - failed to defend a throw in
b - given away a free kick that didnt need to be given away.

in a game against the top teams, if you make no mistakes, 1 or 2 goals max will win both games. last week we gave away a mindless penalty from yes, another throw in. the 2-2 equaliser against Ewetuppers was yep, you guess it, a throw in. thats not a coincidence, thats a lack of concentration when games are there to be won, we simply dont tune into the basic of what it takes to win a tight match. thats 6 points dropped, where we were a goal up and 3 goals were conceded from very basic scenarios.

Last week had nothing to do with isolation or sitting back or what ever else bulls*it excuse we want to make, it was down plain and simple to the fact that the opposition had 70% plus of the ball.

Mousewar

homerjay2005 wrote: »

Last week had nothing to do with isolation or sitting back or what ever else bulls*it excuse we want to make, it was down plain and simple to the fact that the opposition had 70% plus of the ball.

And yet we got a 1-1 draw against dominant opposition. That's not a bad result. And in the Ewetuppers game, yes we should have won but we were short on players that night and had two guys who played the whole game who were seriously unwell and were struggling just to keep running.

We've played everyone this season and I haven't seen a team that play better ball than us when we show up and perform like we can.

helimachoptor

the goal last week resulted in someone :P saying everyone get back and defend so instead of pressing them in their own half which is what we should have done, we collapsed onto the edge of the box which allowed them push their full 10 players up and ultimately get a throw in which they got the penalty from

The opposition had more ball because we're retreating into our half with 2 of our CMs dropping into CH territory to try and pick the ball up, then we're lumping it up to Derek who's out numbered 3 or 4 to 1, we lose possession and are under pressure straight away because of midfield instead of being in their half are 10 yards from our own box. We are doing this more and more, what happened to the "trust the defence" mantra we have 4 quality players and a quality GK, let them get on with the job. We are worrying too much about what the opposition are doing rather than concentrating on our own game plan and its a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sit back, defend to close out a game and then watch the opposition camp their team in our half and get a goal.

We should be forcing our game plan onto other teams, press them in their own half, force them to make mistakes and get goals, that is what is happening to us

homerjay2005

if ye think that closing out a game or doing whats necessary to win it = sitting back then i am wasting my time trying to reason with ye.

its no wonder we are conceding late goals when people are not doing their jobs and have this fantasy idea that we dont need to defend in tight games.

When was the last time we won a game 1-0 or 2-1? end of last season, when we actually won alot of tight games and it was us scoring the late winners.

5 times this year we have been leading going into the last 10 mins and ended up not winning the game, that didnt happen last year and i think its down to an obsession on some people to just play an attacking game without realising the game is still in the balance.

We have played against the other top 4 teams on 6 occasions this season and we have won once. thats not down to sitting back, its down to not being able to close out tight games as we dont know how to do it.

thats 6 points from 18, where as Ballalley have picked up 11 points, winning 3 games by 1 goal.

Mousewar wrote: »

We've played everyone this season and I haven't seen a team that play better ball than us when we show up and perform like we can.

we have been playing well against the **** teams. Cork beat one of them 9-0 last night, i wouldnt be reading too much into 4 or 5-0 wins against teams who we are much better than.

as ive just said above, we have one win in 6 games against the teams around us and we led in 5 of them.

dfx-

I'd only judge the Colmcille's results as I think the Benildus pitch is unsuited for the style of this team and the players. It's a leveller as seen this week. Ballalley dominated the first game on a wide pitch where you can isolate a defender and get in behind, Boards dominated on a tighter, compact pitch where their long balls went nowhere.

Keaner wrote: »

I agree I think we need to recognise when the game needs to be slowed down and pass it about looking for easy passes in defence and midfield because sometime we look to keep attacking when it would be better to pass back take a breather and kill a bit of time while knowing the other team is getting frustrated looking to score.

This is something I mentioned in the first couple of weeks. 4-0 up with minutes to go, the game was over, that's the perfect opportunity to try control the game, keep the ball, halfway line/midfield. Instead a fifth and a sixth and a seventh were looked for even on the final whistle. You can't just switch it on under pressure 1-0 up like last week or 2-1 this week. Edit: was against Brown Bag in game two or three.

helimachoptor wrote: »

yeah i think that comes from what has happened, Ed is right we have dropped points when we shouldnt have, but we need to recognise goals are flying in all over the place in Knocylyon, the defense needs to be trusted to keep the ball out (as much as reasonably possible) midfield needs to support the attack.

Whilst I would agree that goals are flying in, the successful teams are the ones that are keeping them out the most regularly. The side last week have conceded six against Boards alright, but only something like 10 in total. That's what has them up there.

sReq | uTeK

mrDerek wrote: »

lol defo not this in the last 3 or 4 games iv been increasingly isolated up top theres just no support coming up anymore its like we are sitting deeper or something, either way booting the ball upto me from kickouts isnt a viable option

Derek, there are games where you've scored 5 goals, in the bigger games where the teams are evenly matched you can't expect to have it all your own way. There is no support because the balls going into you are typically long balls which means the gap to you and the closet player is too great, if balls were given to the midfielders to give to your feet the gap would be significantly smaller. Something we need to improve on.

helimachoptor wrote: »

the goal last week resulted in someone :P saying everyone get back and defend so instead of pressing them in their own half which is what we should have done, we collapsed onto the edge of the box which allowed them push their full 10 players up and ultimately get a throw in which they got the penalty from

The opposition had more ball because we're retreating into our half with 2 of our CMs dropping into CH territory to try and pick the ball up, then we're lumping it up to Derek who's out numbered 3 or 4 to 1, we lose possession and are under pressure straight away because of midfield instead of being in their half are 10 yards from our own box. We are doing this more and more, what happened to the "trust the defence" mantra we have 4 quality players and a quality GK, let them get on with the job. We are worrying too much about what the opposition are doing rather than concentrating on our own game plan and its a self fulfilling prophecy.

Sit back, defend to close out a game and then watch the opposition camp their team in our half and get a goal.

We should be forcing our game plan onto other teams, press them in their own half, force them to make mistakes and get goals, that is what is happening to us

That is absolute head in the clouds stuff Keith, we scored a goal with 3 minutes to go against a team who probably had 75% of the game and absolutely battered us, we didn't have one sub on the side and you're saying the correct thing to do would have been to continue attacking when everyone was out on their feet. Irregardless of conceding the penalty the correct thing to do was to get men behind the ball and shut them out.

Also, you continually mention midfield trusting our defenders that's all good and well but why is it the I can name about 3-4 instances in most games where I'm the last one back shepherding out a ball or covering for someone. I will track back my man in the middle it's what I do, when you have 2 people in the middle and 4 on front of them the support shouldn't be from the 2 in the middle, there job is to get the ball and control it, link up play and help out defence all of which we did and have done all season.

This mentality we have of, we will score more than you etc etc, where has it gotten us ? 2nd place 5 points behind and a significantly better off goal difference. I'd rather be in Ballalley's position of fewer goals scored and winning tight games 1-0 2-1 knowing when to defend and when to attack. You can push on and batter teams but when it comes to the big games doing that against teams who can actually break and pass the ball will mean you'll get seriously punished.

dfx- wrote: »

I'd only judge the Colmcille's results as I think the Benildus pitch is unsuited for the style of this team and the players. It's a leveller as seen this week. Ballalley dominated the first game on a wide pitch where you can isolate a defender and get in behind, Boards dominated on a tighter, compact pitch where their long balls went nowhere.

This is something I mentioned in the first couple of weeks. 4-0 up with minutes to go, the game was over, that's the perfect opportunity to try control the game, keep the ball, halfway line/midfield. Instead a fifth and a sixth and a seventh were looked for even on the final whistle. You can't just switch it on under pressure 1-0 up like last week or 2-1 this week. Edit: was against Brown Bag in game two or three.


Whilst I would agree that goals are flying in, the successful teams are the ones that are keeping them out the most regularly. The side last week have conceded six against Boards alright, but only something like 10 in total. That's what has them up there.

Couldn't agree more, we should be practicing being comfortable on the ball and controlling games when we're 4-0 up so that it becomes second nature when we are in battles at 1-0 and 2-1.

We need to get out of this head space that EVERY team we're going to play is going to be a 4-0 walkover because that's not the case at the top of the league and the amount of points we've taken off the bigger teams shows this consistently.

Keaner

Maybe its worth identifying some tough games where we need to practise comfortable control and go over game plans in a training session or something? I know people have lives and are busy but if who ever could spare 2 hours some evening did get out, say half the team, it wouldnt hurt. Maybe something to look at. I know people have new born and games are tough enough to get to but something agreed well in advance could do us a world of good! dno what people would think about that or if its come up before but Id be in favour of it.

Keaner

As well Iv noticed our set pieces are wasted alot these days, corners mostly, and bit of time spent on them knowing where people should be and whos attacking what area could help too, when the deliveries are good, which is more then often to be fair, I think a plan there could help.

helimachoptor

Yeah in think we can definitely improve on corners for sure too often it's a Valencia moment and doesn't clear the first man, very frustrating especially when we have such good headers of the ball

mrDerek

sReq | uTeK wrote: »

Derek, there are games where you've scored 5 goals, in the bigger games where the teams are evenly matched you can't expect to have it all your own way. There is no support because the balls going into you are typically long balls which means the gap to you and the closet player is too great, if balls were given to the midfielders to give to your feet the gap would be significantly smaller. Something we need to improve on.

ehhh not sure if your agreeing with me or not because youv more or less reiterated what i said

sReq | uTeK

mrDerek wrote: »

ehhh not sure if your agreeing with me or not because youv more or less reiterated what i said

I'm agreeing with you, but letting you know that lack of support is also as a direct result of greater opposition closing down space and marking people.

Mousewar

45 posts and I've just realised no one mentioned Dave's goal. What a belter that was. Class player - good to have him back more regularly now.