According to the present pope ....... cardinals and bishops have been sex abusers

WilyCoyote

So, if a cardinal or bishop is/has been involved in these despicable acts, is there a possibility that one of them could have got the top job? Could a pope be one of these misfits?
The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.
The amount of scandals involved there would have brought down any other multinational corporation. So why not this bunch of degenerate con artists?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690575/Pope-Francis-admits-two-cent-Roman-Catholic-priests-paedophiles-interview-Italian-newspaper.html

House of Blaze

Because god says so.

ScumLord

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.

As far as I can tell the catholic church has become everything Jesus hated about the Jewish faith in his day.

It's a redundant organisation.

solomafioso

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.

Whoa there pal! I think you'll find you can go back further by a few hundred years...even a century.

old hippy

WilyCoyote wrote: »

So, if a cardinal or bishop is/has been involved in these despicable acts, is there a possibility that one of them could have got the top job? Could a pope be one of these misfits?
The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.
The amount of scandals involved there would have brought down any other multinational corporation. So why not this bunch of degenerate con artists?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2690575/Pope-Francis-admits-two-cent-Roman-Catholic-priests-paedophiles-interview-Italian-newspaper.html

As you say, it's been going on since the days of Paul. Or was it Peter?

If you can find a copy of Nigel Cawthorne's "Sex Lives of the Popes" it makes for a fascinating read.

WilyCoyote

solomafioso wrote: »

Whoa there pal! I think you'll find you can go back further by a few hundred years...even a century.

AFAIK he died in the mid 60s AD

solomafioso

WilyCoyote wrote: »

AFAIK he died in the mid 60s AD

Meant the institution...and the decadence of. But I get your point. Carry on...

srsly78

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.

Since the time of Peter you mean surely?

solomafioso

srsly78 wrote: »

Since the time of Peter you mean surely?

Consider the Lily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjrn4dXE2yI

Ray Palmer

old hippy wrote: »

As you say, it's been going on since the days of Paul. Or was it Peter?

If you can find a copy of Nigel Cawthorne's "Sex Lives of the Popes" it makes for a fascinating read.

Bit of a difference as priest could marry in the past as could the pope.

The fact they made the last pope a saint even though he presided over a system that continued to abuse children and remained silent on the past tells you the church had massive failings.

If you follow Jesus' teachings you shouldn't be a member of an organised church but they won't tell you that.

ScumLord

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Bit of a difference as priest could marry in the past as could the pope.

Some of the earliest christian art works seem to show women priests too.

It's been hijacked away from the all inclusive saviour of the downtrodden and turned into a money making power racket for bachelors.

WilyCoyote

srsly78 wrote: »

Since the time of Peter you mean surely?

No, I mean Paul. 'Twas he got christianity going like wildfire throughout the Eastern Med, Malta etc. He created the buttress on which was spawned the behemoth ........ now known as Roman Catholicism.

diomed

If he can calculate 2% of clergy are paedophiles he must have a list. Publish.

WilyCoyote

diomed wrote: »

If he can calculate 2% of clergy are paedophiles he must have a list. Publish.

Or be damned!

Buzz Killington the third

diomed wrote: »

If he can calculate 2% of clergy are paedophiles he must have a list. Publish.

It'll never get published. Protected by the highest people in the Vatican!

"As Cardinal Ratzinger was Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF), the sexual abuse of minors by priests was his responsibility to investigate from 2001, when that charge was given to the CDF by Pope John Paul II. Before given this charge, Cardinal Ratzinger was theoretically privy to all sexual abuse cases within the Church. As Prefect of the CDF, Canon Law directed Bishops to report sexual abuse cases involving priests in their diocese to Cardinal Ratzinger. However, due to the obscurity of Canon Law, even within the Church, it is unknown whether this directive was actually followed."

Kermit.de.frog

The goings on at the BBC and other places being found out in recent times suggests to me that child sexual abuse is FAR more widespread and endemic than only the Catholic church tbh.

House of Blaze

They don't deserve punishment.. they deserve gun-ishment.

Tail Docker

Anyone who ever bothered reading the bible, even casually, knows going to mass or joining a church is against what is taught - go to a quiet room alone, and say the "Our Father" was Jesus's instructions on worship. Don't let anyone see you praying and never pray in public and only ever pray saying the "Our Father", nothing else. Kinda shytes on the whole "church" idea a bit..

IMO, If they can ignore that inconvenient truth, there's not much else going to bother them..

Nodin

Tail Docker wrote: »

Anyone who ever bothered reading the bible, even casually, knows going to mass or joining a church is against what is taught - go to a quiet room alone, and say the "Our Father" was Jesus's instructions on worship. Don't let anyone see you praying and never pray in public and only ever pray saying the "Our Father", nothing else. Kinda shytes on the whole "church" idea a bit..

..

Ninja Jesus?

gctest50

Tail Docker wrote: »

Anyone who ever bothered reading the bible, even casually, knows going to mass or joining a church is against what is taught - go to a quiet room alone, and say the "Our Father" was Jesus's instructions on worship. Don't let anyone see you praying and never pray in public and only ever pray saying the "Our Father", nothing else.............

There would be no money to be made in that - and its all about making the moniez - selling babies, getting land whatever it takes it seems

its probably why the one in Donegal was upset at Yoga :

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/religion-and-beliefs/yoga-putting-souls-in-jeopardy-donegal-priest-warns-1.1860881

RobertKK

Tail Docker wrote: »

Anyone who ever bothered reading the bible, even casually, knows going to mass or joining a church is against what is taught - go to a quiet room alone, and say the "Our Father" was Jesus's instructions on worship. Don't let anyone see you praying and never pray in public and only ever pray saying the "Our Father", nothing else. Kinda shytes on the whole "church" idea a bit..

IMO, If they can ignore that inconvenient truth, there's not much else going to bother them..

Jesus went to the synagogue, it was not a quiet room.

ScumLord

WilyCoyote wrote: »

No, I mean Paul. 'Twas he got christianity going like wildfire throughout the Eastern Med, Malta etc. He created the buttress on which was spawned the behemoth ........ now known as Roman Catholicism.

If I'm not mistaken he had considerable help for a female business woman who helped him on his travels around Europe.

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The goings on at the BBC and other places being found out in recent times suggests to me that child sexual abuse is FAR more widespread and endemic than only the Catholic church tbh.

These people abuse the power of large unquestionable institutions. While many in the institution might see the institution as sacrosanct, they see it as a tool they can use to abuse people and get away with it due to the reverence others give the position.

RenegadeDisco

RobertKK wrote: »

Jesus went to the synagogue, it was not a quiet room.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:5

Red Nissan

WilyCoyote wrote: »

So, if a cardinal or bishop is/has been involved in these despicable acts, is there a possibility that one of them could have got the top job? Could a pope be one of these misfits?
The decadence that has steadily crept into the church since the time of Paul has been allowed to gain general acceptance.
The amount of scandals involved there would have brought down any other multinational corporation. So why not this bunch of degenerate con artists?l

The old Western Roman Empire was in decline from all sides not least from its decadence lifestyles. The word for pedophilia comes from this decadence.

I maintain that the Church of Christ that was attempted by his disciples was ambushed and infiltrated and emerged as the Holy Roman Catholic Church and it has at it's core the same decadence that the Western Roman Empire was being destroyed for, was there from the beginning, each century, each decade to this day.

RobertKK

RenegadeDisco wrote: »

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full." Matthew 6:5

That applies to people like Enda Kenny who said he is Catholic and goes to mass every Sunday.
On the Meaning of life he said he goes to mass every Sunday as he sees it as a community get together, he doesn't believe in a physical God or Jesus as the son of God, or the Eucharist at mass.
Enda: I am Catholic...

When he goes to mass, is it because he is what he says he is - Catholic?

Likewise in the bible we see how people like the Pharisees were hypocrites.

floggg

Is meant to be the recent popes? Or through out history?

I have no doubt that there is was more than one abuser of some sort in the top spot.

I'm sure women and post-pubescent girls were the main victims. Probably a few share of men of varying ages too.

Whether or not they had any child abusers on the throne, I don't know. I wouldn't be all that surprised if they did though.

walk the way 55

say there is 200 million priests in the world and 5 per cent of them are paedophiles, thats still only 10 million . . . .

Red Nissan

floggg wrote: »

Is meant to be the recent popes? Or through out history?

Back in the 16th Century as example a bard called William Shakespeare called convents/nunnaries the whorehouses for the popes [yes multiple] cardinals and bishiops whilst the lowly priests had to settle for street urchins and tavern leavings.

"Charities" eventually sprang up ostensibly to house the product of these houses under the guise of offering fettle to the poor.

RobertKK

walk the way 55 wrote: »

say there is 200 million priests in the world and 5 per cent of them are paedophiles, thats still only 10 million . . . .

That is amazing, considering there is just a bit over 400,000 Catholic priests in the world.

fleet_admiral

The catholic cult is pure evil and needs to be banned

Manach

Can you not feel the historical ignorance kicked off by the OP whose mission in life seems to spreading the ill-cheer when ever there is the slightest anti-Catholic story and giving it the most negative spin. Catholic charities have historically managed to give some measure of sustainence to the poor in society, whilst the ruling elites were business living the high life. To advocate for the banning of RCC one would need to look at how the English endured when this occurred, funnily enough in the lifetime of Shakespeare. Massive social disruption and penury when the state seized and sold off the supports for the poor that got into the pockets of the rich patrons of Shakespeare.
So the sheer vehemence is more akin to a mob frenzy than anything approaching rational discourse - but what else does one expect from the AH Brights.

Tail Docker

Nodin wrote: »

Ninja Jesus?

Naah, just after thought effort.

WilyCoyote

Manach wrote: »

Can you not feel the historical ignorance kicked off by the OP whose mission in life seems to spreading the ill-cheer when ever there is the slightest anti-Catholic story and giving it the most negative spin. Catholic charities have historically managed to give some measure of sustainence to the poor in society, whilst the ruling elites were business living the high life. To advocate for the banning of RCC one would need to look at how the English endured when this occurred, funnily enough in the lifetime of Shakespeare. Massive social disruption and penury when the state seized and sold off the supports for the poor that got into the pockets of the rich patrons of Shakespeare.
So the sheer vehemence is more akin to a mob frenzy than anything approaching rational discourse - but what else does one expect from the AH Brights.

Catholic charities collect money in the form of donations. They distribute various percentages of that money to good causes. Some of these percentages are staggeringly low. Quite a lot of the money that finishes up keeping the vatican in style was never meant to be used in that way.
Why does the pope wear all those silly but expensive clothes? Certainly not to prove his humility.
Do you mean to say that the charity that passes through the hands of the church can make up for all the deaths and hatred caused by the church?
Have you never heard of religious wars?
I could go on but it's late.

gctest50

Originally Posted by walk the way 55
say there is 200 million priests in the world and 5 per cent of them are paedophiles, thats still only 10 million . . . .

RobertKK wrote: »

That is amazing, considering there is just a bit over 400,000 Catholic priests in the world.

20,000 so ?

Ennis 25,360
Coleraine 25,089
Kilkenny 24,423
Tralee 23,693
Carlow 23,030
Portadown 22,100
Newbridge 21,561
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_settlements_on_the_island_of_Ireland_by_population

RobertKK

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Catholic charities collect money in the form of donations. They distribute various percentages of that money to good causes. Some of these percentages are staggeringly low. Quite a lot of the money that finishes up keeping the vatican in style was never meant to be used in that way.
Why does the pope wear all those silly but expensive clothes? Certainly not to prove his humility.
Do you mean to say that the charity that passes through the hands of the church can make up for all the deaths and hatred caused by the church?
Have you never heard of religious wars?
I could go on but it's late.

Wrong.

The Diocese of Rome keeps the Vatican funded, just like any diocese. The only exception is the Vatican is itself a tourist attraction which helps raise raise to keep it funded.

Religious wars....England v Spain. The west versus the east in the Crusades, funded by kingdoms.

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

20,000 so ?

2% would be 8,000 or so.
98% would be near enough to 392,000 good priests.

323

Only 1 in 50.

Seems much lower than the occurrence of pedophiles in the general population.

Mr. CooL ICE

RobertKK wrote: »

Wrong.

The Diocese of Rome keeps the Vatican funded, just like any diocese. The only exception is the Vatican is itself a tourist attraction which helps raise raise to keep it funded.

Is there anywhere that the catholic church's accounting books can be viewed?

gctest50

323 wrote: »

Only 1 in 50.

Seems much lower than the occurrence of pedophiles in the general population.

bit suspect that

"To hand a child over to a clergyman means to expose him/her to a risk which is at least twenty times higher than that of handing him/her over to a teacher, to a neighbour, to a family friend," writes Gaito from Italy. "In regard to what the Church wants you to believe; i.e., that the risk is the same, you only have to analyze the figures to realize that it is not true."

"The percentage of paedophile priests is 20 to 200 times higher than the incidence found in the secular population," according to a report by Italian psychologist and journalist Vania Lucia Gaito

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

2% would be 8,000 or so.
98% would be near enough to 392,000 good priests.

hmmmm maths n stuff

6,700 Austrian clergymen from a population of a 3,400,000 thousand Austrian males.

17 cases of paedophilia out of 6,700 priests
510 cases of paedophilia out of 3,400,000 Austrian adult males

you realize that the percentage of paedophile clergymen – which seemed to be small –is instead very high.

.

shruikan2553

LordChessington wrote: »

Is there anywhere that the catholic church's accounting books can be viewed?

They would love to show you but they probably have been lost in a fire

RobertKK

The individual parish churches publish their accounts every year.

old hippy

Manach wrote: »

Can you not feel the historical ignorance kicked off by the OP whose mission in life seems to spreading the ill-cheer when ever there is the slightest anti-Catholic story and giving it the most negative spin. Catholic charities have historically managed to give some measure of sustainence to the poor in society, whilst the ruling elites were business living the high life. To advocate for the banning of RCC one would need to look at how the English endured when this occurred, funnily enough in the lifetime of Shakespeare. Massive social disruption and penury when the state seized and sold off the supports for the poor that got into the pockets of the rich patrons of Shakespeare.
So the sheer vehemence is more akin to a mob frenzy than anything approaching rational discourse - but what else does one expect from the AH Brights.

One expects that the cheerleaders for the rampant abuses the RCC has carried out will continue to deflect with occasional barbed drive by postings.

What do you think; Manach?

I Heart Internet

WilyCoyote wrote: »

Catholic charities collect money in the form of donations. They distribute various percentages of that money to good causes. Some of these percentages are staggeringly low. Quite a lot of the money that finishes up keeping the vatican in style was never meant to be used in that way.

Can you please provide an example of a catholic charity directing money away from good causes and towards the vatican's upkeep?

I'll give you one:

Trocaire: http://www.trocaire.org/whatwedo/annual-report

For every €10 donated, just 80 cent is spent on fundraising and admin.

I Heart Internet

I think it is a matter of record (I'm sure google will provide) that there have been men who have abused children made bishops or who have abused while bishops.

There are thousands of bishops in the world - maybe up to 5-10,000.

I would nt bet against some of them even making it to the rank of cardinal.

Sad but true.

The unfolding Westminster scandal shows that these guys can end up anywhere.

PopePalpatine

Manach wrote: »

Can you not feel the historical ignorance kicked off by the OP whose mission in life seems to spreading the ill-cheer when ever there is the slightest anti-Catholic story and giving it the most negative spin. Catholic charities have historically managed to give some measure of sustainence to the poor in society, whilst the ruling elites were business living the high life. To advocate for the banning of RCC one would need to look at how the English endured when this occurred, funnily enough in the lifetime of Shakespeare. Massive social disruption and penury when the state seized and sold off the supports for the poor that got into the pockets of the rich patrons of Shakespeare.
So the sheer vehemence is more akin to a mob frenzy than anything approaching rational discourse - but what else does one expect from the AH Brights.

When are you ever going to take your head out of the sand?

ScumLord

Manach wrote: »

Massive social disruption and penury when the state seized and sold off the supports for the poor that got into the pockets of the rich patrons of Shakespeare.

The church were just as good at seizing property off the people.

My granny was left a house in my town and the local priests made her sell them the house because property ownership isn't something for a young woman to be at.

WilyCoyote

I Heart Internet wrote: »

I think it is a matter of record (I'm sure google will provide) that there have been men who have abused children made bishops or who have abused while bishops.

There are thousands of bishops in the world - maybe up to 5-10,000.

I would nt bet against some of them even making it to the rank of cardinal.

Sad but true.

The unfolding Westminster scandal shows that these guys can end up anywhere.

The pope has already said that!

I Heart Internet

WilyCoyote wrote: »

The pope has already said that!

And now I've said it.

Pax!

I Heart Internet

LordChessington wrote: »

Is there anywhere that the catholic church's accounting books can be viewed?

https://www.ior.va/Portals/0/Content/Media/Documents/AnnualReports/dtg389!stpod45/IOR_AnnualReport_E_2013.pdf

WilyCoyote

I Heart Internet wrote: »

And now I've said it.

Pax!

Hasta la vista Shalom baby!