EGAR IN THE NEWS FOR CRUELTY

doubter

[www.thejournal.ie/animal-cruelty-galway-rescue-centre-1565936-Jul2014/

report by the Journal.ie

Mod note: For future posters, this thread does contravene what we state in our Charter but this is an exception to the rule. It has been discussed prior to being allowed to proceed under the remit that no other rescue or charity is mentioned apart from those involved.

ZiabR

Holy ****... Is €250 really enough???

Its a very sad story, What i hope is these dogs don't get put down and they find a how, so they can have some sort of enjoyment in life.

doubter

Deleted User wrote: »

Its a very sad story, What i hope is these dogs don't get put down and they find a how, so they can have some sort of enjoyment in life.

The dogs are with Galway spca, they won't be killed.And there's a petition trying to stop Sarah Gunther from getting them back.

kylith

I really can't believe this news. I often thought that when it came time for me to give another dog a home I'd go to EGAR. The state of those kennels, with the filth and dead dogs, it's mindboggling how anyone, especially a rescue, could allow it to happen.

I would support her not only not getting those dogs back, but being banned from owning animals for a long, long time.

Millem

I haven't fostered dogs in years but I remember that lady was great at saving the bull breeds. I am completely shocked! What happened to her? :eek:

Whispered

My boy is an EGAR dog. I'm at a loss of what to think.

Millem

There was a similar case of a lady who ran a few years ago, she just got completely overwhelmed with all the animals. The judge labelled her a hoarder but this honestly wasn't the case as we rehired a dog with her! Gosh I am just in complete shock!

Raminahobbin

I'm just so shocked by the whole thing. I was trying to justify it in my head that maybe they were new dogs she had taken in who arrived in that state, but one of them was Chieftain, the wolf hybrid she has had for years. Plus, skulls and bodies.

It's just awful news. I don't know what to think. I cancelled my standing order to EGAR this morning

tk123

I'm not sure what to believe tbh. Anyone who likes their page on FB will regularly see that state that some of the dog are in when they come to her - they're like the dogs in the pictures maybe even worse? She states on FB that she had to segregate the dogs due to a bug going around and had no option but to put them in the old kennels that had been flooded. I've seen a good few rescues shut down because they can's take the abuse people give them on FB anymore - how do we know this isn't the same kind of vendetta?! On FB she said her solicitors are involved and the dogs are going back to her but looks like the page has been taken down...

It pi$$es me off that keyboard warriors are quick to speak up against rescues but have nothing to say about the owners who dumped them in the first place!

SingItOut

On the EGAR Facebook page (which she has since deleted) she made a statement about the case where she claimed "it was an error in judgement". There were dead dogs on the property, all of which can be seen in the photos, her excuses are feeble! She should have gotten jail time not a measly €250 fine. It was her responsibility to nurture and bring these dogs back to health, not make life worse for them.

Whispered

Whispered wrote: »

My boy is an EGAR dog. I'm at a loss of what to think.

Your dog is with you, that's what to think

I think she had the best intentions for the dogs and life got on top of her. Im not one for witch hunts.

Whispered

tk123 wrote: »

I'm not sure what to believe tbh. Anyone who likes their page on FB will regularly see that state that some of the dog are in when they come to her

Phoe was at deaths door, he came to me after 2 days and at that stage I was fostering. So, all of his bills were being covered by EGAR. At no stage at all did she question the money spent or if any treatment was unnecessary, the whole priority was to do whatever I had to to get him well. This all seems at odds with that.

kylith

tk123 wrote: »

I'm not sure what to believe tbh. Anyone who likes their page on FB will regularly see that state that some of the dog are in when they come to her - they're like the dogs in the pictures maybe even worse? She states on FB that she had to segregate the dogs due to a bug going around and had no option but to put them in the old kennels that had been flooded. I've seen a good few rescues shut down because they can's take the abuse people give them on FB anymore - how do we know this isn't the same kind of vendetta?! On FB she said her solicitors are involved and the dogs are going back to her but looks like the page has been taken down...

Lets assume that due to an illness some dogs had to be quarantined. Grand, no problem with that. Why were they quarantined somewhere with dog skulls? Why were there rotting corpses in kennels? Why were the kennels not made suitable for habitation? Why were there unopened tins of food rusting? Why were the dogs so thin and obviously neglected?

I just can't buy 'it got too much for her'. Someone who runs a rescue, of all people, should know that when you need help you ask for it.

anniehoo

Mod note: This has come up a few times since last week and we were waiting for a valid media source other than Facebook to allow this thread to run. As this is outside the normal remit of allowing discussion of a rescue, we will allow this thread to run as it has linked to a decent enough media link. The thread will stay open depending on how civil and factual it is kept by everyone.

Please only mention EGAR and the GSPCA, no other rescues by name thanks.Also do not link to ANY of the petitions doing the rounds on Facebook.

sambuka41

Deleted User wrote: »

I think she had the best intentions for the dogs and life got on top of her. Im not one for witch hunts.

I think you are right, I don't envy anyone who takes on the rescue of any kind of animal in Ireland, it's tough, never ending and sometimes thankless job.

Although in saying that she really shouldn't be getting those dogs back, she is clearly, for whatever reason, unable to care for them and they should stay where they are until they get good homes. Still I am completely shocked by it.

dharma200

tk123 wrote: »

I'm not sure what to believe tbh. Anyone who likes their page on FB will regularly see that state that some of the dog are in when they come to her - they're like the dogs in the pictures maybe even worse? She states on FB that she had to segregate the dogs due to a bug going around and had no option but to put them in the old kennels that had been flooded. I've seen a good few rescues shut down because they can's take the abuse people give them on FB anymore - how do we know this isn't the same kind of vendetta?! On FB she said her solicitors are involved and the dogs are going back to her but looks like the page has been taken down...

It pi$$es me off that keyboard warriors are quick to speak up against rescues but have nothing to say about the owners who dumped them in the first place!

One of the emaciated dogs was in her ownership from birth.

Tramps Like Us

Evil woman. Was very quick to throw around accusations and judge herself and look what she had going on behind the facade - and she wants the animals back!

doubter

I don't know Sarah in person, but I had many many encounters with her on Fb, and they were never positive,rather I found her abusive and aggressive. Whilst I certainly do not disagree that she has done very good things, she should not get away with this. Unfortunately the case was tried under the old laws, as it was filed before the new laws became effective.
Nothing can be done about that, but she should not get in possession of those dogs ever again.And I don't think she should run a rescue, I would be in favor of her signing over the running of the rescue to someone else.
Egar is set up as a business (check the CRO) so it should not be a problem to assign another director.
The other rescue can not re-home these dogs until they have full ownership (currently the dogs are still official possession of the gardai), which is where she needs to apply to regain ownership.
I think under the Journal.ie article somewhere is a link to a petition asking to stop just that. If anyone wants it, i can send it as a personal message, I have signed it as well.

dharma200

I think it would be difficult for some one else to run egar as she runs it from her private home.

doubter

well, the last thing we need is another rescue closed.maybe even sign up a supervisor, someone who will make sure things don't get out of hand.She needs to be controlled, for the animals sake, and for hers

dharma200

She states there have been three unannounced inspections over the last year since the arrest, it is hard to know if this is true or not, and they found no concerns......

I think for her own safety she has to step down, there is a real mob mentality online, which I suppose is understandable, but she does have a child and could potentially be at risk... Including herself there are some militant animal lovers out there, a taste of her own medicine might not taste so nice......she obviously has made many many enemies over the years, she needs to issue a statement to say she is stepping from animal rescue and either appointing someone else to ru. Gears affairs, or shut shop completely. Tragic for the bull breeds but what does she expect, those pictures make me want to vomit. The fact now there is one less recuse with a no kill (how ironic) and willing to take pit bulls or dogs with dog to dog aggression is devastating for these breeds, in one foul swoop she has fckued it up for so many animals.

DBB

Okay, I wish I could publically post what I am happy to say in private, but I cannot post what I'd like to here for fear of drawing trouble upon myself.
I've been directly involved in Irish rescue circles for years. I also have an EGAR dog who I've had for 11 years. I know the score there and have done for a long, long time, as do most people who run rescues in Ireland. Because of this, I'm afraid I'm finding some of what's being said here is pretty naive. There's been so much stuff going on in the background that I don't know the half of, and so the general public realise even less.
I would encourage anyone who supports any rescue group in Ireland to make damn sure that they're what they say they are, and never to make assumptions.
Error of judgement indeed.

doubter

Yes there is, and I can understand that. i don't think there are many rescue's she has not upset.Some of the threads she was involved in facebook were pure evil, and she accused other rescue's of exactly what was found with her. I can understand people want her blood, I myself was quite ready to put a few well placed slaps across her face.
But I am also a realist and that won't help the dogs.
And, since she makes a living form the donations, I don't think she will step away from it unless she is forced to.I'm currently looking into filing requirements for companies her size and will see what can be done there. Still, ultimately, I don't want the rescue closed without an alternative..I do want her gone though.

Raminahobbin

I'm actually worried for her at this stage. I genuinely think she had the best of intentions and things sadly did run away from her- I'm not excusing the state the dogs were found in, but considering the amount of dogs she has undoubtedly helped in the past I really hope the persecution of her doesn't continue. If her posts over the years on FB are true, she has been subjected to some pretty chilling threats in the past, particularly over some of the stuff that went on with dogs up North. I really, really hope people don't lose the run of themselves in all this.

I understand that sometimes she didn't exactly make everyone's buddy list, but I always assumed it was just a personality trait in that she didn't suffer fools lightly. And, to be honest, I liked that about her.

I think the best possible outcome from this would be that she ceases to run the rescue and that people leave her alone and don't harass her- online or otherwise.

dharma200

I think you should read up as to what has gone on up in the north...she initiated a hate campaign, set up multiple facebook accounts, told lie another lie, and persecuted the family, google her name and do a bit of reading about her tactics. She was the instigator, and a vindictive cold calculating one too... Google it and spend a bit of time reading the blog, fascinating stuff really.

mikom

What is EGAR read backwards?

doubter

Raminahobbin wrote: »

I think the best possible outcome from this would be that she ceases to run the rescue and that people leave her alone and don't harass her- online or otherwise.

I agree and i think that's all people want. As far as I know, there's a few rescue's stand bye to take in the dogs she currently has would she be asking for help.

Raminahobbin

dharma200 wrote: »

I think you should read up as to what has gone on up in the north...she initiated a hate campaign, set up multiple facebook accounts, told lie another lie, and persecuted the family, google her name and do a bit of reading about her tactics. She was the instigator, and a vindictive cold calculating one too... Google it and spend a bit of time reading the blog, fascinating stuff really.

True, I have never looked at the other side. My only real exposure to it all has been through her FB.

EGAR is the only charity I've never been to or met in real life that I have been supporting regularly for years, but I've definitely learned my lesson. You really don't know what's going on behind closed doors, so unless I've stepped through those doors like I have with the other charities I support, I won't be giving a cent again.

snoman

DBB wrote: »

Okay, I wish I could publically post what I am happy to say in private, but I cannot post what I'd like to here for fear of drawing trouble upon myself.
I've been directly involved in Irish rescue circles for years. I also have an EGAR dog who I've had for 11 years. I know the score there and have done for a long, long time, as do most people who run rescues in Ireland. Because of this, I'm afraid I'm finding some of what's being said here is pretty naive. There's been so much stuff going on in the background that I don't know the half of, and so the general public realise even less.
I would encourage anyone who supports any rescue group in Ireland to make damn sure that they're what they say they are, and never to make assumptions.
Error of judgement indeed.

It's not really naive if we are not aware of 'the stuff going on in the background'. If you don't feel you can supply those details then don't judge me if I come to a different conclusion.

Magenta

I'm as shocked as the rest of you, but have no sympathy for the woman. I'm not involved in dog rescue but saw many posts of hers on this forum over the years and she hadn't made a positive impression on me.

snoman

snoman wrote: »

It's not really naive if we are not aware of 'the stuff going on in the background'. If you don't feel you can supply those details then don't judge me if I come to a different conclusion.

Having reread my post I realise it sounds a bit short. I didn't mean it to. : ).

Pumpkinseeds

There seems to be so much controversy surrounding well known rescues these days. I don't really know much about EGAR. I made the odd small donation in the past and the photos are quite shocking. I don't condone it for a minute. There's another well known rescue that has a facebook page dedicated to stopping them, claiming neglect/abuse of the animals taking place.

I don't have a clue what's going on in Irish rescue anymore. There is no justification for keeping animals in appaling conditions or allowing them to suffer. But sometimes I think people have an idea that Irish rescues are like bigger rescues that they see on tv and that have amazing facilities and high tech every thing when in reality they are mainly small independents operating from home trying to do the best they can with buggar all money.

dharma200

snoman wrote: »

It's not really naive if we are not aware of 'the stuff going on in the background'. If you don't feel you can supply those details then don't judge me if I come to a different conclusion.

there is enough online at this stage for anyone who wants to read, read the comments on facebook page, google her name and blog.. Interesting reading... There is a wealth of information on her past etc online now, it would seem the dam broke and it's all flowed out........

Raminahobbin

Magenta wrote: »

How do you know one of them was Chieftain? One of the photos of the dead dogs has what appears to be white fluff which I thought/hoped was VetBed, is it actually something much worse?

I'm as shocked as the rest of you, but have no sympathy for the woman. I'm not involved in dog rescue but saw many posts of hers on this forum over the years and she hadn't made a positive impression on me.

Chieftain is still alive, he's one of the dogs taken in by the GSPCA. There are pictures of him on their facebook page, named, from a year ago and more recent ones also, showing how he looked when he was found and how he looks now.

dharma200

Pumpkinseeds wrote: »

There seems to be so much controversy surrounding well known rescues these days. I don't really know much about EGAR. I made the odd small donation in the past and the photos are quite shocking. I don't condone it for a minute. There's another well known rescue that has a facebook page dedicated to stopping them, claiming neglect/abuse of the animals taking place.

I don't have a clue what's going on in Irish rescue anymore. There is no justification for keeping animals in appaling conditions or allowing them to suffer. But sometimes I think people have an idea that Irish rescues are like bigger rescues that they see on tv and that have amazing facilities and high tech every thing when in reality they are mainly small independents operating from home trying to do the best they can with buggar all money.

Yes, and that type of rescue needs to be regulated. Look at the exemplary <snip> for instance... Why has every rescue in the country had difficulties and run ins with egar... I don't think anyone thinks that about the high tech thing etc.. But if <snip> can do it etc why can't other home run rescues... The very fact anyone can open a so called rescue up and collect donations can no longer be tolerated I feel. If we have one thing to thank her for it is she has opened people's eyes.

cocker5

Im going to be very honest and say there is NO excuse… EVER to put a dog (dogs) in that filth, dead corpses, starving… I don’t care “if life got on top of her”… ask for help.

The photos are very distressing to the viewer can you even imagine how stressed these poor dogs were.

I read her full statement of Facebook the day she upload and TBH she just kept expressing an “error of judgement”, she showed no remorse … no whatsoever.
So that twinned with the photos is enough for me. She should be shut down permanently.

I don’t agree with a witch hunt either, but someone needs to speak out on the animals behalf… after all they don’t have a voice.

tk123

DBB wrote: »

I know the score there and have done for a long, long time, as do most people who run rescues in Ireland. Because of this, I'm afraid I'm finding some of what's being said here is pretty naive. There's been so much stuff going on in the background that I don't know the half of, and so the general public realise even less.
.

Well a lot of it was hinted at/said on FB so that's why the account was closed I'd say(!) TBH I was surprised it stayed up so long! It does make sense of a lot of her anti-gspca posts though over the few years I've seen them on FB!

Magenta

dharma200 wrote: »

Why has every rescue in the country had difficulties and run ins with egar...

Exactly. She made a thread on this forum urging people not to donate to <snip>. Something about not being happy about their volunteers seeking donations in other parts of the country. What difference does that make to the <snip> dogs? The rescue needs that money no matter what town it came from.

Raminahobbin

cocker5 wrote: »

I read her full statement of Facebook the day she upload and TBH she just kept expressing an “error of judgement”, she showed no remorse … no whatsoever.

Yes, I read that too and it was the first thing I heard about the case. It instantly rang alarm bells for me. "Error of judgment", but absolutely no genuine acceptance anywhere in the statement that what she did was wrong. I think this is going to be a long and drawn out process of blaming everyone else but herself.

doubter

dharma200 wrote: »

Yes, and that type of rescue needs to be regulated. Look at the exemplary <snip> for instance... Why has every rescue in the country had difficulties and run ins with egar... I don't think anyone thinks that about the high tech thing etc.. But if <snip> can do it etc why can't other home run rescues... The very fact anyone can open a so called rescue up and collect donations can no longer be tolerated I feel. If we have one thing to thank her for it is she has opened people's eyes.

I've heard somewhere that <snip> also runs a pound, but I might be mistaken.i know for certain the <snip> does, and they have virtually 0% kill rate per year.
I'm trying to do it different myself. I run a sanctuary, which means I foster on a larger scale for rescue's. I usually care for about 10 animals that are not my own, cats, dogs and horses.I have rescue back up for all, but don't call on that unless i really need to.I don't need or want external funding, but if peops come to visit treats for the animals are always welcome.Maybe thats the way to go. I don't know. But I do know that something must happen so that this terrible ordeal for those dogs can never happen again.

dharma200

Removed as per post below

anniehoo

Folks, I know we're allowing this topic to be discussed but can we keep other rescues names out of it please. Thanks.

time lord

The court's sentence is a good example of how things can go in front of a judge. Regardless of evidence and time spent by volunteers or professionals on enforcement it may all seem hardly worth it to the individuals involved.
The state those dogs were in with unopened food and a carcass cobwebbed lying about only offer a glimse of what the dogs were being put through.
I believe as a nation our tolerance of animal cruelty is far too high. The results of this case only reinforce my opinion. A paultry message sent with such a low fine and people seeking to defend her through 'mittigating' circumstances rather than build on the facts. Most importantly the fact she was found guilty. Its now a matter of record beyond anyones guess work.
I dont say hang 'em high but anyone involved in similar acts will not be deterred in their actions one iota by a €250 fine. Well meaning is a subjective term open to anyones opinion and as ive said our tolerance of animal cruelty is too high.

doubter

dharma200 wrote: »

Removed as per post below

pm d you with explanation

Magenta

time lord wrote: »

people seeking to defend her through 'mittigating' circumstances rather than build on the facts. Most importantly the fact she was found guilty. Its now a matter of record beyond anyones guess work.

There were multiple people on FB responding to her critics saying things like "Let's see you do better" or "How many dogs have you rescued, get off your backside" etc. These people genuinely seemed to believe that what she was doing to these dogs was better than nothing. The dead dogs in those photos would have been better off euthanised in the pound than taken into her "care".

There really needs to be regulations regarding animal rescues. It seems like anyone can call themselves a rescue and they answer to no one until they are proven to be abusing animals. Sadly our government are more worried about country and western concerts.

dharma200

time lord wrote: »

The court's sentence is a good example of how things can go in front of a judge. Regardless of evidence and time spent by volunteers or professionals on enforcement it may all seem hardly worth it to the individuals involved.
The state those dogs were in with unopened food and a carcass cobwebbed lying about only offer a glimse of what the dogs were being put through.
I believe as a nation our tolerance of animal cruelty is far too high. The results of this case only reinforce my opinion. A paultry message sent with such a low fine and people seeking to defend her through 'mittigating' circumstances rather than build on the facts. Most importantly the fact she was found guilty. Its now a matter of record beyond anyones guess work.
I dont say hang 'em high but anyone involved in similar acts will not be deterred in their actions one iota by a €250 fine. Well meaning is a subjective term open to anyones opinion and as ive said our tolerance of animal cruelty is too high.

She was convicted under the old 1911 cruelty laws which have been completely overhauled. When she was charged in 2013 she was charged under these laws... Had she been charged under the new laws, the outcome most probably would have been completely different.

Vel

dharma200 wrote: »

I think for her own safety she has to step down,

she needs to issue a statement to say she is stepping from animal rescue and either appointing someone else to ru. Gears affairs, or shut shop completely.

I've seen many people, since this broke wonder will she now close her 'rescue', show remorse and learn from her mistakes.

In my opinion, people who find themselves in this situation don't think they have done anything wrong. They have a compulsion to take on and hoard these animals that they are unable to fight. Being caught is unlikely to be a deterrant to someone with these kind of mental health issues and this is what makes them so 'dangerous' because they just don't see what they have done wrong.

Magenta

Vel wrote: »

I've seen many people, since this broke wonder will she now close her 'rescue', show remorse and learn from her mistakes.

In my opinion, people who find themselves in this situation don't think they have done anything wrong. They have a compulsion to take on and hoard these animals that they are unable to fight. Being caught is unlikely to be a deterrant to someone with these kind of mental health issues and this is what makes them so 'dangerous' because they just don't see what they have done wrong.

Yep. They have the same attitude as the people who defend them, ie deflect back to their critics and ask what THEY are doing to help animals.

dharma200

I totally agree, <snip>.

Pumpkinseeds

dharma200 wrote: »

Yes, and that type of rescue needs to be regulated. Look at the exemplary madra for instance... Why has every rescue in the country had difficulties and run ins with egar... I don't think anyone thinks that about the high tech thing etc.. But if madra can do it etc why can't other home run rescues... The very fact anyone can open a so called rescue up and collect donations can no longer be tolerated I feel. If we have one thing to thank her for it is she has opened people's eyes.

I do think that a lot of people have an idea that Rescues are all nice modern pens with toys and plenty of people coming in to walk dogs and clean out runs and litter trays and do all the practical day to day things that are part of running a rescue. I've met a quite a few people who are surprised that they aren't like what they see on tv with RSPCA etc.

As I said there is no excuse whatsoever for the conditions those dogs were kept in or what they endured. I agree that there needs to be regulation around rescues but don't hold your breath on that so long as Simon Coveney is in charge.