ESB considering knocking Poolbeg chimneys again!

enda1

From the IT

ESB chief executive Pat O’Doherty said carrying out the structural and repair works needed to keep the 680ft high twin stacks may not be the best use of resources.

It's a worrying situation whereby the ESB have control over such a major.

Perhaps DCC could compulsorily purchase the chimneys and commission the repair works to maintain their integrity and place in Dublin mostly lacking skyline.

For me flying into Dublin (trying my best not to sound too corny) but me heart wells with pride and nostalgia upon seeing these chimneys. I get they are not the aesthetic likeness of the Statue of Liberty or something, but for me they evoke the same feeling of arrival and my county.

What think al ye? Should this be something we fight to keep?

If the financials don't add up, perhaps a lift-shaft and viewing platform could be installed into one of them. What a magnificent view that would be had from such a height!

Cushie Butterfield

I'd much prefer to see the unsightly Central Bank building demolished rather than the Poolbeg Chimneys.

enda1

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

I'd much prefer to see the unsightly Central Bank building demolished rather than the Poolbeg Chimneys.

Well I'm not sure the issue is that they've 10 tonnes of TNT to use, and by gum they'll use it!
:P

RebelButtMunch

Two horrible chimneys. Blow them up.

Ben D Bus

Keep them. Definitely iconic

A highly visible marker as you arrive into Dublin by sea or air.

Also one of my first memories as I originally hail from Irishtown/Ringsend.

Tabnabs

They want to build a diaspora centre in Ireland (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/plans-for-national-diaspora-centre-announced-1.1712068). That would make an iconic location for it. It pretty much the last sight of home for many emigrants and the first sight when they return on holiday. Keep em and make the site pay for itself. 100,000+ cruise passengers arrive just across the Liffey, plenty of traffic for it.

califano

They better not knock them.

A sentimental portrait of the Poolbeg Chimneys in Dublin, this film questions whether or not they should be demolished. In recent years, the Electricity Supply Board decommissioned them, so this issue has been raised a few times since then. Amongst the tallest structures in Dublin, they can be seen from most parts of the city, and in themselves have become a landmark.

http://vimeo.com/31780474
‘Landmark’ by Jenny Keogh (5:03mins)

John_Rambo

Could be an incredible tourist attraction/museum if we could somehow attach a glass lift to one or the other or both. Much more original and much cooler than the London eye.

loyatemu

John_Rambo wrote: »

Could be an incredible tourist attraction/museum if we could somehow attach a glass lift to one or the other or both. Much more original and much cooler than the London eye.

lift on/in one of them then a glass bridge across to the other for a vertiginous skywalk experience?

TBH its hard to see how they can made pay, they're a good distance out from the city centre (from a tourism point of view) and their re-use potential is limited.

OldGoat

Eyesores.

If people want an iconic city landmark then commission one but to have these two defunct mismatched power generation towers represent the city is a sad idea.

uch

All iconic city landmark don't necessarily need to be created by fancy artists, for me they are a united North and South Dublin City Icon.

subpar

They should be demolished safely before they fall down

Remember these massive chimneys were build in the late 1960's. If the ESB were to apply for planning permission to build them today they would definitely be refused.

So lets not waste a golden opportunity to remove a blot from the landscape

carlmango11

Might be cool if they replaced them with two twin buildings of the same height/colour pattern

Ole Rodrigo

Battersea power station was earmarked for demolition and look at it now

LXFlyer

Tabnabs wrote: »

They want to build a diaspora centre in Ireland (http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/plans-for-national-diaspora-centre-announced-1.1712068). That would make an iconic location for it. It pretty much the last sight of home for many emigrants and the first sight when they return on holiday. Keep em and make the site pay for itself. 100,000+ cruise passengers arrive just across the Liffey, plenty of traffic for it.

John_Rambo wrote: »

Could be an incredible tourist attraction/museum if we could somehow attach a glass lift to one or the other or both. Much more original and much cooler than the London eye.

Given that there still is a fully functioning power station on the Poolbeg site, I don't think that the site is going to be opened up to all and sundry anytime soon.

John_Rambo

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that there still is a fully functioning power station on the Poolbeg site, I don't think that the site is going to be opened up to all and sundry anytime soon.

I'd suggest safety barriers, sealed off areas, safe viewing areas if it were to happen etc...

OldGoat

ror_74 wrote: »

Battersea power station was earmarked for demolition and look at it now

Battersea has a unique architecture, 1920's art deco. You cannot compare the 1960's built Dublin towers to Battersea.
However, if you wish you could do an image search for "power station chimney" and try to pick out the pretty ones from the plethora of eyesores.

jack presley

The funny thing is if they weren't there and someone went for planning permission to put them up, there'd be outage.

John_Rambo

jack presley wrote: »

The funny thing is if they weren't there and someone went for planning permission to put them up, there'd be outage.

ha! You're probably right, but they're there now and they are a fantastic unique landmark. There's just no mistaking where you are when you see them.

Ole Rodrigo

OldGoat wrote: »

Battersea has a unique architecture, 1920's art deco. You cannot compare the 1960's built Dublin towers to Battersea.
However, if you wish you could do an image search for "power station chimney" and try to pick out the pretty ones from the plethora of eyesores.

You can - both are landmarks. Bit of dickeying up and who knows what potential it might realise.

OldGoat

Or you can have a look at the images raised when you search for Iconic Structures and start to imagine what we could have in their place

quadrifoglio verde

subpar wrote: »

They should be demolished safely before they fall down

Remember these massive chimneys were build in the late 1960's. If the ESB were to apply for planning permission to build them today they would definitely be refused.

So lets not waste a golden opportunity to remove a blot from the landscape

Yeah but Leinster house would probably be refused as well. Sure why would anyone want to build themselves a house that size in the city centre:P

Cushie Butterfield wrote: »

I'd much prefer to see the unsightly Central Bank building demolished rather than the Poolbeg Chimneys.

I wouldn't, its one of my favourite buildings from that era, you just have to learn to appreciate it. I used to date it altogether, but like Trinity's art block and the texaco building in balls bridge, its grown on me

ProudDUB

OldGoat wrote: »

Eyesores.

If people want an iconic city landmark then commission one but to have these two defunct mismatched power generation towers represent the city is a sad idea.

Utter nonsense. You can't just whistle up an iconic landmark up out of thin air. Iconic landmarks become iconic over time, because of what they come to mean to the people of the city that they are a part of. You can't just design them by committee. Look at the relatively recent additions of the Anna Livia fountain & the Spire to O'Connell St. Despite the best intentions of the planners and designers, the average Dub couldn't give a damm about them.

The Poolbeg towers are something else entirely. They have been a part of our skyline for as long as most of us here care to remember and, they have a place in our hearts as a result. No one is saying that they represent the city in its entirety, in the same way that the Eiffel Tower does Paris, or Big Ben does London. But they are very much a part of our heritage and they should be respected as such.

Ole Rodrigo

Heading out to Bray one morning I thought they looked especially nice

ironclaw

I've always wanted to get to the top of them and would happily pay for the experience. The view on a clear day would be spectacular. St. James Gate isn't exactly 'pretty' in my eyes but look at what they did with it.

Tabnabs

lxflyer wrote: »

Given that there still is a fully functioning power station on the Poolbeg site, I don't think that the site is going to be opened up to all and sundry anytime soon.

The ESB Dublin Bay Power Station takes up a remarkable small footprint, smaller than the tower site itself. That area will one day be redeveloped anyway, so most of the structures there are living on borrowed time.

Access by road or by boat to the location is entirely practical.

http://bula.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/739994_833416796685945_3333123871385331142_o.jpg

A large aerial photo

rockbeast

Tabnabs wrote: »

The ESB Dublin Bay Power Station takes up a remarkable small footprint, smaller than the tower site itself. That area will one day be redeveloped anyway, so most of the structures there are living on borrowed time.

Access by road or by boat to the location is entirely practical.

http://bula.ie/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/739994_833416796685945_3333123871385331142_o.jpg

A large aerial photo

Put link on an AH thread. Great photo. Thanks, man.

rockbeast

Still looking at that photo!

Maybe moving the port to Balbriggan(or close by) wasn't the worst idea...

A lot of land there that would be awesome to build on.

Now I don't know the geological stability of the land but would be awesome to live where Poolbeg or Ferrydock now are...

Keep the chimneys though

rolliepoley

If they dont take them down they will just fall down and as for a tourist attraction there will be no hope of that, there is an awful smell of sh'te down there.

quadrifoglio verde

Something that those calling for it to be demolished should also reflect on what's out of vogue now won't always be.
An example of this is the gasworks building, which was left to rot. Now it's an amazing piece of architecture and you can appreciate the engineering and craftsmanship that went into it.
Likewise the Georgian squares of dublin many of which the free state knocked. We should be preserving the best buildings from each era, not destroying them because the current generation don't appreciate them. The chimneys are a dublin landmark that many appreciate. Another landmark is the Samuel Beckett bridge or the grand canal theatre. Give it 40 years and people will be calling for the bridge and theatre to be knocked.
It happens every generation.
People knocked the city walls of dublin bar some remnants, wouldn't it be cooler for the city if these walls were still in place?

Thomas D

They're ****. Knock them down. If they're that badly missed in 10 years we can build them again for f all.

rockbeast

Thomas D wrote: »

They're ****. Knock them down. If they're that badly missed in 10 years we can build them again for f all.

Class. Do you write the lines inside greetings cards?

I'd say keep it up but you'd want to knock it down

subpar

Just being listening to the Head of the ESB speaking on the Pat Kenny Show. He says that the poolbeg chimneys will need millions spent on them to make them safe and an ongong spend on additional money every year to keep them safe.

He further said that from an engineering point of view they were nothing special ,and are common enough around the world representing the design standards of the 1960's and 70's


So in summary they are nothing special and will need a significant amount of money to keep them looking nothing special.

Tabnabs

subpar wrote: »

Just being listening to the Head of the ESB speaking on the Pat Kenny Show. He says that the poolbeg chimneys will need millions spent on them to make them safe and an ongong spend on additional money every year to keep them safe.

He further said that from an engineering point of view they nothing special ,and are common enough around the world representing the design standards of the 1960's and 70's


So in summary they are nothing special and will need a significant amount of money to maintain them.

This is the ESB where in 2013 "ESB has reported a profit after tax for last year of €415m, an increase of 23% on the year before. ". So they're not short of a quid or two...

On the other topic, I'm sorry, but I won't be taking any architectural, engineering or cultural advice from the company that did this:

subpar

Tabnabs wrote: »

This is the ESB where in 2013 "ESB has reported a profit after tax for last year of €415m, an increase of 23% on the year before. ". So they're not short of a quid or two...


The quid or two they are not short off is customers money paid to them for over priced electricity.

Who do you think will be paying the cost to maintain 2 out of date and redundant relics of 1960's engineering.

enda1

More from the IT

A Skybridge is now being proposed. At least something interesting is being proposed and considered by the artistic community.

I can't imagine the two chimneys could be easily couple seeing as how they are not structurally connected. I'd say the relative sway from one to the other in high wind must be quite substantial, however some out of the box thinking is important and good for the public to realise the potential and see the cultural and potential economic benefit of keeping them.

Tabnabs

subpar wrote: »

The quid or two they are not short off is customers money paid to them for over priced electricity.

Who do you think will be paying the cost to maintain 2 out of date and redundant relics of 1960's engineering.

You need to do some research if you think the ESB just sells electricity to Irish customers.

ScottSF

One example of how the decommissioned power station in Johannesburg, South Africa was turned into an even more attractive iconic landmark. Now you can walk across a bridge between the two and rappel down the side as part of a very popular tourist attraction. I'm not saying the Poolbeg towers should be painted - just showing how saving them can be turned to good use with a bit of creative thinking.

Dyr

As someone who grew up in on the top floor of the ballymun flats i can tell you that Dublin has a fairly spectacular vista once you're up high enough. Poolbeg could be and amazing as a viewing tower in a city that totally lacks such views. If they're structurally sound then they should be utilized

loyatemu

loyatemu wrote: »

lift on/in one of them then a glass bridge across to the other for a vertiginous skywalk experience?

enda1 wrote: »

A Skybridge is now being proposed.

F*cker stole my idea! - anyone know a good lawyer?

If they're structurally sound then they should be utilized

I think the ESB's point is that they're not (in the long-term) and the cost of making them sound is far higher than the benefit of converting them into a tourist attraction or whatever.

subpar

Tabnabs wrote: »

You need to do some research if you think the ESB just sells electricity to Irish customers.

Where did I say they just sell electricity.

They certainly dont sell ice cream.

Numerous reports over the last few years indicate the high cost of power to domestic and commercial customers.

The ESB is not cost efficient

Dyr

UOTE=subpar;91268097]Where did I say they just sell electricity.

They certainly dont sell ice cream.

Numerous reports over the last few years indicate the high cost of power to domestic and commercial customers.

The ESB is not cost efficient[/QUOTE]

You mean the increased prices that were put in place by the regulator to make it more attractive for private companies to enter the market?

Yeah thats the ESBs fault that

subpar

ESB staff average salary is inexcess of 90k per annum

They have rolls royce pay , conditionions and pensions

All staff and pensioners get a significant % of free electricity per annum

The unions run the place

Need I go on

You cant blame the energy regulator for that

Sierra Oscar

Tabnabs wrote: »

This is the ESB where in 2013 "ESB has reported a profit after tax for last year of €415m, an increase of 23% on the year before. ". So they're not short of a quid or two...

Indeed - this is all about the ESB trying to extract some more money from the state in the guise of maintaining the structures.

I say keep them and incorporate them into a redeveloped site.

alastair

enda1 wrote: »

More from the IT

A Skybridge is now being proposed. At least something interesting is being proposed and considered by the artistic community.

Design graduate proposal for an urban park development from a couple of years back: http://www.verareshto.com/poolbeg.html

Cienciano

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Indeed - this is all about the ESB trying to extract some more money from the state in the guise of maintaining the structures.

I say keep them and incorporate them into a redeveloped site.

You can hardly blame them for not wanting to pay for the upkeep of them because some people are sentimental about them.
I like them myself, but wouldn't exactly miss them. It's not exactly the Theatre Royal, or Fitzwilliam Street we're destroying here.

BowWow

Would they have to be de-contaminated in order to do something with them?

If so, I'd imagine the cost of this would not justify anything other than knocking them down.

BowWow

My wish would be that the narrow one be demolished and something like the Seattle Needle be crafted from the other one.

http://www.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdepts.washington.edu%2Ficmpc11%2Fspaceneedle.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fdepts.washington.edu%2Ficmpc11%2Finterest.html&h=600&w=464&tbnid=E4IfPqf7lJ8-2M%3A&zoom=1&docid=psUcCFAbHC73-M&ei=GF_EU4HDK8nA7AalnYCAAg&tbm=isch&ved=0CCcQMygIMAg&iact=rc&uact=3&dur=274&page=1&start=0&ndsp=16

http://www.spaceneedle.com/home/

Pete_Cavan

I dont think putting any sort of structure on the chimneys is realistic. They are too tall (over 200m)and they were not built to support anything other than themselves. The structural works required to put something on top of them would change them so dramatically that they would no longer be the chimneys people want saved. A stairs isn’t really an option anyway (nobody would actually climb a 200m high stairs) and a lift beside would look ridiculous - in fact you would probably need both a stairs and a lift for fire regulations so at that stage you are building something thicker than the actual chimneys which destroys the iconic image.

Anyway, it is too far away from the city centre and anything else tourists would be interested in to be a tourist attraction. The chimneys are a part of Dublin so they should become something for the people of Dublin.

The chimneys were originally built to spew out the fumes from the power station, in light of all the environmental damage they have caused, I think their next phase of life should now give something back to nature. Cut openings in the side and create compartments for various birds to nest. Also plant trees and plants and have them growing out the sides of them. They could become a spectacular vertical park and an extension of the Irishtown Nature Reserve.

Sierra Oscar

Dublin City Council voted to list the chimneys as protected structures so they can't be demolished now so it seems a new plan will be needed.

Councillors vote to preserve Pigeon House chimneys

Dublin city councillors have voted to preserve the ESB’s Pigeon House chimneys at Poolbeg more than eight years after the same proposal was rejected by the council’s conservation department.

HeidiHeidi

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Dublin City Council voted to list the chimneys as protected structures so they can't be demolished now so it seems a new plan will be needed.

Councillors vote to preserve Pigeon House chimneys

According to today's Herald they've only started the process to vote them onto the list

http://www.herald.ie/news/council-moves-for-official-protection-of-poolbeg-chimneys-30430946.html

Better than nothing, and I'd hope they can get it through - but not a done deal just yet I don't think.