My tale of woe

Dots1982

Just posting this to see if there are any legal eagles floating around who may offer advice or opinion.

This week my car was stolen. What makes this car theft original is that it was taken from a mechanic's garage after being fixed. It was taken in broad daylight by simply going behind the frequently unmanned front desk and taking the key, going to my car and driving away. There is no CCTV anywhere in the premises either. The theft wasn't even discovered till the next day when i called in to get something out of my car I needed and they were suprised as they thought I had taken it already.

Obviously this is pretty bad news. Im still waiting to hear if the mechanics insurance will cover it but am assuming it will. The mechanic is a large well known chain.

If I don't get my car back in one piece i can probably expect a payout of between 8 and 10k to represent the car's present value. I paid 21500 for the car in 2008 and paid over 3k in repairs less than a year ago.

Basically the mechanic's neglect of proper security is going to leave me seriously out of pocket.

Is anyone familar of similar cases (rare enough id imagine) or what do they think I should seek or do people think i'm entitled to the value of the car and a few small extra expenses for the admin of the case and that's about it?

Pat Mustard

Suggest you ring your family solicitor to check the amount to which you should be entitled to recover, to include car hire and sundry expenses.

For example; market value plus 2 weeks car hire, etc.

Before you ring, check the value of similar cars on cbg.ie, autotrader.ie, donedeal.ie, and carzone.ie, etc. Print out this information so you can use it if necessary or if your solicitor need it.

Dots1982

chops018 wrote: »

Hmm, if it is a large chain as you say, then, it sounds a bit odd that there is no CCTV.

Anyway.....

How are you out of pocket?

Just because you paid 21k for it in 2008 why should you get this now. It sounds like the car will be valued and you will get that. Which is fair enough imo.

They are not responsible for the repairs you paid for.

Finally, what do you mean what should you seek? And what extra expenses for the admin of the case are you talking about?

It sounds like the garage's insurance is going to cover the theft and you will get sorted. There doesn't seem to be anything suspect here apart from, as you say, the poor security of the garage, and an extremely unlucky situation, which, by the sounds of it, the garage is currently trying to resolve with their insurance company.

I'm out of pocket in that I wouldn't have sold the car for 12k and now will have to make do with possibly 8k.

They actually are responsible for the repairs (3k) I made to the car I think as they are asking for invoices for them so think you're wrong there.

The extra fees I may be paid are the money to have a logbook sent from the department of environment as well as a new nct cert. This information was in the car at the time it was robbed and is needed by the insurance company in case the car turns up and they transfer ownership to them selves post payout., also the unexpired tax or insurance or the cost of cancelling said tax & insurance. Phone costs.

By what I should seek extra to already mentioned, I mean to compensate me for the carelessness and negilence of others and the stress and time this is causing be personally when I have other things to do. Maybe I'm due nothing for this. You seem to think so, others may not.

Dots1982

Unlucky would be one way to describe what happened to me. Substantial personal lost due to the carelessless and poor security procedure of a third party would be another.

If they were found to be responsible for more than the value of the car maybe they would think again about having keys lying around the front desk when it is unmanned and not having any cctv.

Dots1982

The Mustard wrote: »

Suggest you ring your family solicitor to check the amount to which you should be entitled to recover, to include car hire and sundry expenses.

For example; market value plus 2 weeks car hire, etc.

Before you ring, check the value of similar cars on cbg.ie, autotrader.ie, donedeal.ie, and carzone.ie, etc. Print out this information so you can use it if necessary or if your solicitor need it.

Thanks, will probably wait for the offer from the mechanic's insurance company first.

Wheelnut

This thread is a little strange because something seems to have been deleted.

Going on the information that you paid €21,500 for the car in 2008, I would think the value now is €5,000 to €6,000. Of course I may be totally wrong because you told us nothing about the car, but on the other hand you may be over optimistic about the amount of compensation you will get. The amount you paid for repairs means nothing, that's what it took to keep the car roadworthy and some cars cost more than others.

There seems to be really no dispute here (yet). The repairers are responsible and their insurance company seems to be dealing with it. The dispute will arise when they make their settlement offer. Keep us informed.

Ger Byrne 1

see if they make an offer

Little CuChulainn

From the sounds of it, I doubt you will get offered anywhere near what you are hoping for. I certainly wouldn't be expecting anything for stress without going to court for it.

Dots1982

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

From the sounds of it, I doubt you will get offered anywhere near what you are hoping for. I certainly wouldn't be expecting anything for stress without going to court for it.

I'm not expecting anything for stress without going to court for it. You're right, ill probably get offered less than I expect. I guess its a question of what I deserve given the negilence I see on the part of the mechanics.

I guess its more a question do people have experience with these kind of cases and do they think I have a case that is likely to win in court.

28064212

Dots1982 wrote: »

I'm not expecting anything for stress without going to court for it. You're right, ill probably get offered less than I expect. I guess its a question of what I deserve given the negilence I see on the part of the mechanics.

I guess its more a question do people have experience with these kind of cases and do they think I have a case that is likely to win in court.

Yes, they were negligent. So you should be fully compensated for your loss. Which is the value of the car (plus any admin/car hire expenses). Which you are likely to get.

What damages are you looking for beyond that?

PLUG71

Thats a crappy thing to happen to you o/p.

I think you will get what the car is worth on the market.

They will have to cover any reasonable expenses you meet due to their incompetance, hire cars etc.

Make sure you give all relevent info regarding if your car was low mileage, full history and maybe a list of any contents left within the car.

Good luck sorting it out.

JimsAlterEgo

From the insurance companies perspective how is it any different to the car being written off?

Dots1982

28064212 wrote: »

Yes, they were negligent. So you should be fully compensated for your loss. Which is the value of the car (plus any admin/car hire expenses). Which you are likely to get.

What damages are you looking for beyond that?

I feel entitled to personal damages. However feeling entitled and legally entitled are two very different things. Posters' opinions seem to be I'm entitled to no personal damages. I dont know if those opinions are coming from people with a legal background.

If my car was taken by a gang who held up and threatened staff then I would be more understanding. The way I see it, the mechanics should be punished for running the security of the garage in a badly ramshackle way but I guess the counterpoint to that is that if I don't like what I see in terms of the security of the garage I should not put my car near them in the first place.

Dots1982

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

From the insurance companies perspective how is it any different to the car being written off?

I dont know to be honest. Im not an insurance expert.

PLUG71

Dots1982 wrote: »

I feel entitled to personal damages. However feeling entitled and legally entitled are two very different things. Posters' opinions seem to be I'm entitled to no personal damages. I dont know if those opinions are coming from people with a legal background.

If my car was taken by a gang who held up and threatened staff then I would be more understanding. The way I see it, the mechanics should be punished for running the security of the garage in a badly ramshackle way but I guess the counterpoint to that is that if I don't like what I see in terms of the security of the garage I should not put my car near them in the first place.

The blame will legally fall on the company and not any individual.

Its then upto the company to repremand its staff for gross mis-conduct etc.

hullaballoo

Please remember that giving legal advice is not allowed under the forum charter. It is defined here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=87523043&postcount=2

Thanks.

Edit: I have removed the reference to one specific post because a number of others are skirting very close to the line.

Little CuChulainn

Dots1982 wrote: »

I feel entitled to personal damages. However feeling entitled and legally entitled are two very different things. Posters' opinions seem to be I'm entitled to no personal damages. I dont know if those opinions are coming from people with a legal background.

If my car was taken by a gang who held up and threatened staff then I would be more understanding. The way I see it, the mechanics should be punished for running the security of the garage in a badly ramshackle way but I guess the counterpoint to that is that if I don't like what I see in terms of the security of the garage I should not put my car near them in the first place.

I suppose the question is, whether it was stolen due to carelessness or violence, how does it change the effect on you?

Dots1982

PLUG71 wrote: »

The blame will legally fall on the company and not any individual.

Its then upto the company to repremand its staff for gross mis-conduct etc.

Suppose though there isn't any case for gross misconduct because the staff followed procedure. If the company was at fault for not having proper security procedures in place could I be entitled to personal damages.

In any case is the company not responsible for the conduct of its staff and the company could have a case to answer legally anyway..

Dots1982

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I suppose the question is, whether it was stolen due to carelessness or violence, how does it change the effect on you?

it doesn't really, but would make me more understanding while what happened to me is down to other people's carelessness rather than their misfortune.

PLUG71

Dots1982 wrote: »

Suppose though there isn't any case for gross misconduct because the staff followed procedure. If the company was at fault for not having proper security procedures in place could I be entitled to personal damages.

In any case is the company not responsible for the conduct of its staff and the company could have a case to answer legally anyway..

You left your car in their charge and in good faith to have work done.

So its their fault if your car goes missing whilst in their care!

Dots1982

PLUG71 wrote: »

You left your car in their charge and in good faith to have work done.

So its their fault if your car goes missing whilst in their care!

Ah yeah, its their fault. What that will mean in terms of their offer to me or any extra compenation I may get in a courtroom is the unknown here.

Little CuChulainn

Dots1982 wrote: »

Ah yeah, its their fault. What that will mean in terms of their offer to me or any extra compenation I may get in a courtroom is the unknown here.

I think you misunderstand how the civil law process works in relation to awarding damages. Unfortunately, explaining it is likely to result in an infraction so it's probably best you speak to a solicitor.

Dots1982

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

I think you misunderstand how the civil law process works in relation to awarding damages. Unfortunately, explaining it is likely to result in an infraction so it's probably best you speak to a solicitor.

Can you post a link to it or is that also an infraction?

Wheelnut

You are entitled to compensation for your loss at current market rates and the repairer's insurance company seem to be dealing with that already. You seem to be looking for some sort of punitive damages against the repairers because you believe they were careless or incompetent. You will not get that.

The repairers will probably have to pay a financial penalty in the form of increased insurance premiums in the future. They may also be forced to carry out security work before the insurance company will give them any more cover.

Pat Mustard

Leaving aside car loss issues:

Personal injury actions are founded on negligence. There cannot be a personal injury action without injury/harm.

Stress can cause personal injury. Medical evidence would be needed to show such injury.

Annoyance is not a personal injury.

Dots1982

I think the answer from everyone is I will get the car's current value and a few extras for the admin.

It doesn't seem fair to me but that's the law I guess. Plenty of other victims of crime who have been a lot more shafted than me.

hullaballoo

Or, there are legal professionals who can advise you.

Like, professionals. Not random people on the internet.