Driving test, N plates?

Ants in your Pants

When I applied in the NDLS on the 28th of July the girl said to me that I got in before the changes. I said to her that it was a very grey area online about it, so I didn't know if I needed N plates and her reply was well how could it be, you've applied today July 28th, that's the date that will be on your license. And on the back it says valid from 28/07/2014... Surely if it says that it's valid in July that I don't need N plates??

TheChizler

HurtLocker wrote: »

Could be a code on the back of the licence similar to the codes for first licence or glasses required etc. to let the gards know if the driver is affected by the regulations

My point was it wasn't going to have the test date on it. Now it turns out that it has the valid from date which makes sense.

miss no stars

If I had one listed as valid from before August but issued during or after August, I wouldn't put plates up because there's a fairly strong argument that the license was valid before the restrictions came into place. If I was stopped and then told by a Garda that I had to have N plates up, I'd say "Sorry Guard, genuinely thought that it was referring to the date when it was valid from, I'll go get a set right away" and put up the plates. It'd be hard to get any kind of conviction from you when there hasn't been any sort of press release with a little picture of a license and the relevant date circled.

Ants in your Pants

Yes thanks for that bit of advice there. Think that is what I will do...

SteM

miss no stars wrote: »

If I had one listed as valid from before August but issued during or after August, I wouldn't put plates up because there's a fairly strong argument that the license was valid before the restrictions came into place. If I was stopped and then told by a Garda that I had to have N plates up, I'd say "Sorry Guard, genuinely thought that it was referring to the date when it was valid from, I'll go get a set right away" and put up the plates. It'd be hard to get any kind of conviction from you when there hasn't been any sort of press release with a little picture of a license and the relevant date circled.

I don't think they'll care what you're understand is when it comes handing out points tbh. Depends on what you're stopped for I suppose.

ProudDUB

SteM wrote: »

I don't think they'll care what you're understand is when it comes handing out points tbh. Depends on what you're stopped for I suppose.

Yep. Depends on the mood of the Guard too. The "oh sorry Guard, I didn't know" excuse just doesn't wash with a lot of them now. As a motorist, it is your responsibility to know what you need to do/pay/display in order to drive legally on the roads. No one is going to do it for you. (Which sounds very high horse-y of me I know, but am just offering up a Guards possible point of view.)

The fact that a pesonalized press release about the new N plates wasn't delivered by hand to the front door of a newly qualified driver, won't cut the mustard, especially as there are loads of ads on the telly about the N plates too.

miss no stars

SteM wrote: »

I don't think they'll care what you're understand is when it comes handing out points tbh. Depends on what you're stopped for I suppose.

I think that given the numbers of learners driving unaccompanied as well as a genuine source of confusion - including being explicitly told at the NDLS that it's the "valid from" date that determines it - they certainly won't be handing out points.

SteM

miss no stars wrote: »

I think that given the numbers of learners driving unaccompanied as well as a genuine source of confusion - including being explicitly told at the NDLS that it's the "valid from" date that determines it - they certainly won't be handing out points.

Don't know what the amount of learners driving unaccompanied has to do with N plates?

If you're stopped for a certain reason like driving while under the influence then you're obviously going to be handed points. The alcohol level you're allowed in your system depends on whether you're an N plate driver or not so it is very important that people clear this issue up for themselves - not just continue to drive while 'confused' about the situation.

miss no stars

SteM wrote: »

Don't know what the amount of learners driving unaccompanied has to do with N plates?

If you're stopped for a certain reason like driving while under the influence then you're obviously going to be handed points. The alcohol level you're allowed in your system depends on whether you're an N plate driver or not so it is very important that people clear this issue up for themselves - not just continue to drive while 'confused' about the situation.

It's related to it because if they can't be arsed dealing with people who legally shouldn't even be on the road, they'll hardly be quick to hand out points to someone for not having N plates up when their license is valid from a time before the N plates became a requirement, but whose license was slow to be issued through no fault of their own. They passed their test and their license is valid from a date before the cut off.

I hadn't considered the blood alcohol issue because tbh it would never occur to me to drive with any alcohol in my system. But it's one that if you were under the normal limit, your license validity from was before the cut off and you hadn't done anything wrong, the gardai would probably know better than to risk challenging that in court. Especially as it applies to such a small number of drivers.

The Singing Beard

challengemaster wrote: »

Wrong.

Anyone that has a license issue date from 1st August onwards. Passing a test only earns you a certificate of competency, you don't have a full license at that point.

So someone who passes their test in say, May and because of an administrative fvck up, the papers are lost and the license isn't issued until August, the person then has to wear N Plates.

Typical Ireland.

SteM

miss no stars wrote: »

It's related to it because if they can't be arsed dealing with people who legally shouldn't even be on the road, they'll hardly be quick to hand out points to someone for not having N plates up when their license is valid from a time before the N plates became a requirement, but whose license was slow to be issued through no fault of their own. They passed their test and their license is valid from a date before the cut off.

I hadn't considered the blood alcohol issue because tbh it would never occur to me to drive with any alcohol in my system. But it's one that if you were under the normal limit, your license validity from was before the cut off and you hadn't done anything wrong, the gardai would probably know better than to risk challenging that in court. Especially as it applies to such a small number of drivers.

The Gardai don't have the resources to enforce the L plate law but if an L plate driver is pulled over for a specific issue like speeding then them having an L plate makes a huge difference. It'll be the same with an N plate.

You should probably consider all aspects of the new N plate system (like the lower penalty point limit and lower blood alcohol level - both very important issues) before you suggest that people just shrug their shoulders and plead ignorance if they're pulled over. Surely drivers that are unsure would be better off clarifying the situation either way?

miss no stars

SteM wrote: »

The Gardai don't have the resources to enforce the L plate law but if an L plate driver is pulled over for a specific issue like speeding then them having an L plate makes a huge difference. It'll be the same with an N plate.

You should probably consider all aspects of the new N plate system (like the lower penalty point limit and lower blood alcohol level - both very important issues) before you suggest that people just shrug their shoulders and plead ignorance if they're pulled over. Surely drivers that are unsure would be better off clarifying the situation either way?

1. If they're drinking and driving, fcuk them. They deserve whatever comes to them and honestly, they aren't the type of people who'll actually be trying to figure out the finer points of it.

2. It's not pleading ignorance, it's pleading being misinformed. The NDLS have told people in no uncertain terms that the relevant date is the "valid from" date. The RSA have declined to be clear about this issue so asking at the driver licensing facility and being told "you're fine, you're in before the requirements" means that I would take that at face value. If I were subsequently told "no, they had it wrong" by a member of AGS, I would apologise and put up the plates. Crime of the century.

Ants in your Pants

Yes I agree miss no stars. My license was issued on the 06/08/2014 which was 10 days after I applied for my license. But the back of my license says valid from 28/07/2014 the date I applied. This only affects a small amount of people who applied for their license just before the changes came in on 1st of August, and is a grey area that no one can really give answers for!!

Witcher

Ants in your Pants wrote: »

Yes I agree miss no stars. My license was issued on the 06/08/2014 which was 10 days after I applied for my license. But the back of my license says valid from 28/07/2014 the date I applied. This only affects a small amount of people who applied for their license just before the changes came in on 1st of August, and is a grey area that no one can really give answers for!!

It's not a grey area, it's in black and white in the RTA 2014, look at the top of this page.

People are putting too much faith in NDLS, just because someone is behind a desk doesn't mean they know what they're talking about. Know the legislation yourself.

I've gun licences and have had Gardai tell me I could do things that would be highly illegal. That ammo limits 'don't matter' for instance. That's the type of thing you go to jail for several years for, so NDLS giving out info that might get you a few penalty points is minor in comparison.

People don't know their arse from their elbow in a lot of cases.

Ants in your Pants

Ok what if I have first full license issued in May so no need for N plates, but then I lose it and have to apply for another one in August and then the new issue date will be August. So now I need N plates??

Witcher

Ants in your Pants wrote: »

Ok what if I have first full license issued in May but then I lose it and have to apply for another one in August and then the new issue date will be August!!!

The issue date will still be the same, it's just a reprint of the licence you were given originally.

If it was any other way then lads that have licences 20 years that have a licence reissued would look like they need to have the plates up.

The legislation doesn't lie...read it.

Ants in your Pants

The NDLS online has a breakdown of the license and on the back 10 reads 'issued from' (my date is 28/07/2014) the front 4a reads 'date of issue' (my date 06/08/2014) would this mean date of print??
So you see I have 2 issue dates on my license, that's the grey area for me....

(Sorry not able to put the link up as new to Boards)

Witcher

Back of the licence says 'valid from' not issued from.

Ants in your Pants

No the NDLS has online breakdown and it's issued from

Witcher

I've an actual licence and it says valid from/to.


Actually now that I look at the NDLS site it does say 'First issued from' in section 10 on the back so that appears to be the date you focus on.


My own licence has 'valid from' in sec. 10, they've obviously changed the layout for this system.

There's obviously a bit of confusion between people who have the old layout with 'valid from' and the new drivers who have 'issued from'. The old ones like my own only have one issue date on the front.

Vologda69

Rsa and Ndls have stated that regardless of screwups in paperwork, human error etc. that all those who presented before the deadline 31st July 2014 in NDLS offices to apply for a 1st full licence WILL NOT have to wear N Plates. This application date is recorded on the system. On the other hand those who held onto their Certs for months and applied on 1 August or after WILL have to wear N Plates. After the licence issues your driver file will be updated to carry a note to say 'N' plate required or not, whichever is the case. These are the only dates that matter.

Ants in your Pants

Thanks a million for that information...

userbrio

To clarify on the N Plates issues for ppl who applied for the driving license in July see below email response from NDLS

Thank you for your query.

The issue date on your licence does not determine whether or not you are obliged to wear 'N-plates.'

The 'date issued from', which is section 10 on the licence, should contain the date on which we received the application (in this case, July 30.)

If section 10 on the licence contains a date before August 1, 2014, you are not eligible for N-plates.

If you have any queries in relation to this communication, please contact our Customer Services Team on +353 (0) 761 087 880 and quote your case reference number, or visit the National Driver Licence Service website

Yours sincerely

Customer Services Team
National Driver Licence Service