US golf and military hysteria

First Up

Is anyone else tired of how US TV uses golf tournaments to glorify the military? You have stars and stripes flags, uniformed flunkies standing to attention beside greens, forcing players to salute or shake hands etc. Feherty seems to have embraced it all with gusto - more right wing than the local rednecks and positively drooling about those "who serve".
It is supposed to be sport for goodness sake.

scrubber72

"uniformed flunkies" that's a bit much. I quite like the touch. Yes Americans can be ott at times but giving a serviceman/ servicewoman the responsibility of looking after their nations flag is a huge honour.

Manach

Given that they are severing personnel, that are might have been involved in some of the most dodgy spots in the world, then a bit of light duty involved in such a ceremony would be a change of pace. As well, there were similar soldiers on duty at Wimbledon in dress uniform, hardly a hot bed of militarism.

First Up

Manach wrote: »

Given that they are severing personnel, that are might have been involved in some of the most dodgy spots in the world, then a bit of light duty involved in such a ceremony would be a change of pace. As well, there were similar soldiers on duty at Wimbledon in dress uniform, hardly a hot bed of militarism.

Mostly in places that were none of America's business but that isn't the point. Sport is sport; jingoistic military strutting doesn't belong. I don't like it at Wimbledon or Twickenham either but at least the players aren't expected to play along.

Carpo86

I agree with you First Up. I suppose it might also be said that US golf receives a significant proportion of its support/sponsorship etc from a demographic who are resolutely 'pro-military' so it's perhaps not a complete surprise that we see the cross-over you describe.

ForeRight

But but but it's because of those men and women on the other side of the world that we can watch the golf every week as they continue to give America it's freedom in the war on terror.

Anyway I can see this thread wandering off topic.

namloc1980

American sport in general has a lot of militarism. You see baseball teams wearing camouflage jerseys to honour the military, and military salutes and air force flybys at the super bowl. I personally feel sport and politics and militarism shouldn't go together. The pro-military and overly nationalistic stance in American sports coverage is nauseating but it goes down well over there.

SnowDrifts

Agree OP. I watch a lot of PGA Tour comps and it's getting silly at this stage. It's been getting progressively worse over the last 2 years.

First Up

namloc1980 wrote: »

American sport in general has a lot of militarism. You see baseball teams wearing camouflage jerseys to honour the military, and military salutes and air force flybys at the super bowl. I personally feel sport and politics and militarism shouldn't go together. The pro-military and overly nationalistic stance in American sports coverage is nauseating but it goes down well over there.

Yes, one of the reasons I avoid the place as much as possible.

ForeRight

The baseball games are basically surprise home comings these days.

6 year old Lindsey is throwing the first pitch but she is going to get a big surprise. The man catching her pitch under the mask is actually Major Tom McAdams-Cartwright just arrived back from Afghanistan last night but his family don't know and he has been gone for 3 WHOLE months!!!!

Wooooo god bless America no more WMD's


Idiots!

If you think golf is bad try NASCAR.

Rikand

I'm definitely staying out of this one

John Divney

You don't get a military budget like they have by skimping on the propaganda. The tour is also to the right of Genghis Khan, and the sponsors are probably the ones pushing it too.

mickmackey1

First Up wrote: »

Feherty seems to have embraced it all with gusto - more right wing than the local rednecks and positively drooling about those "who serve".

It's just plain dishonest to pretend that the American loony-left is actually opposed to the military.

slave1

It's not just golf, I'm over in Orlando at the minute and every second ad is all about serving military discounts etc. Also remember it's close to Independence Day and then everything military goes overboard. Even in the airports here you have folk walking up to military guys in full uniform shaking their hands and thanking them. To each their own.

m r c

I don't have any problem with it, I always just seen it as respectful. Wether you believe the USA should or should not go to war is more of a political point but like it or not those soldiers are putting their lives on the line for their country and honouring them in return to me seems just.

I know that golf puts a lot of resources back into injured soldiers, the wounded warriors( from memory that's their name I think) had a group of soldiers with differing levels of injury over in Ireland golfing last autumn and I know they received a massive welcome wherever they went.

Phil and Amy mickelson have another charity called birdies for the brave where money fir every bird Phil gets leads to donations for injured soldiers.

If our(Irish) army were at war to keep us safe I'd take issue with someone cribbing about showing them respect, this isn't much different IMHO.

LinksLad

Rikand wrote: »

I'm definitely staying out of this one

Not a chance in hell I'm staying out of this one, but it's 3:37a.m. & will wait 'til I'm sober...

First Up

m r c wrote: »

I don't have any problem with it, I always just seen it as respectful. Wether you believe the USA should or should not go to war is more of a political point but like it or not those soldiers are putting their lives on the line for their country and honouring them in return to me seems just.

I know that golf puts a lot of resources back into injured soldiers, the wounded warriors( from memory that's their name I think) had a group of soldiers with differing levels of injury over in Ireland golfing last autumn and I know they received a massive welcome wherever they went.

Phil and Amy mickelson have another charity called birdies for the brave where money fir every bird Phil gets leads to donations for injured soldiers.

If our(Irish) army were at war to keep us safe I'd take issue with someone cribbing about showing them respect, this isn't much different IMHO.

Whether or not US military adventures are keeping anyone safe is indeed a subject for a political forum. My objection is to golfers - many non-American - being dragged into it while they are doing their job. I can just turn down the sound but they are forced into joining the frenzy or risk getting abuse from some beered up "patriots".

TrapperChamonix

Wimbledon uses Service men and women as ushers at the show courts. Australians and New Zealanders link heavily RL and U during ANZAC Day. I'd imagine most countries with significant military presence do something similar.

First Up

TrapperChamonix wrote: »

Wimbledon uses Service men and women as ushers at the show courts. Australians and New Zealanders link heavily RL and U during ANZAC Day. I'd imagine most countries with significant military presence do something similar.

Yes, but Federer wasn't required to shake hands with them between points.

death1234567

namloc1980 wrote: »

American sport in general has a lot of militarism.

It's not militarism it's straightforward propaganda and it's plastered on to every sport in the US, not just golf. Keep ramming patriotism down the throats of everyone and they won't ask questions when thousands of young "heroes" are sent to their deaths in whatever godforsaken place America has invaded this week.

It's also important to keep people thinking that the billions they waste on military is money well spent as it's protecting Joe Everyman from some "evil" invader. You don't want people asking questions like "Why are we wasting so much money on killing people in other countries instead of using that money to try to fix the most unequal society on the planet?".

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

Yes, but Federer wasn't required to shake hands with them between points.

The players aren't *required* to shake hands at all, nevermind between shots or holes.

GreeBo

Lets keep this golf related please, there are other fora for political themes

Tiger Mcilroy

First Up wrote: »

Whether or not US military adventures are keeping anyone safe is indeed a subject for a political forum. My objection is to golfers - many non-American - being dragged into it while they are doing their job. I can just turn down the sound but they are forced into joining the frenzy or risk getting abuse from some beered up "patriots".

I doubt very much the people "being dragged into it" have an issue and see it for what it is and a small gesture of shaking somebodies hand.

At the end of the day they are playing in the US and this is the custom, so forgive me if i don't feel sorry for people playing golf for millions having to acknowledge that countries service men and women.

There has always been a long history of the US being proud of their military, do they go over the top..possibly.

Wombatman

I hate it. It puts players who may not agree with 'militarism' (spending, foreign policy etc) in an very awkward position. Many of them may be non-Americans who a perfectly entitled not to want to show support.

If a player chose not to shake hands they could be branded as un-patriotic and anti-American and could lose sponsorship and their livelihood. They should not be put in the position. Bullying and blackmail.

For those about to post that if they don't like it they should stay at home argument, I say again there is no reason they should be put in that position in the first place. The Russian Open is on in the middle of July. Imagine if the American players were asked to do the same thing there.

Wouldn't be surprised to see a priest and a nun holding flags soon, where you have to stop for a blessing and a prayer as you walk off.

Sport should be apolitical and irreligious.

Would be much better if they got young golfers who achieved certain goals to do it.

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

The players aren't *required* to shake hands at all, nevermind between shots or holes.

They get abuse if they don't.

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

They get abuse if they don't.

You get idiots everywhere.

bustercherry

Fcuk me some of you should just give up golf and cancel your sky subscriptions. Little to be worried about if this annoys you.

SnowDrifts

First Up wrote: »

They get abuse if they don't.

Jimmy Walker had to put up with such abuse back in February when he didn't shake a military personnel's hand before leaving a green.

He had to try and justify his "actions" on twitter later. It turned out he was a big military supporter and had verbally thanked the flag attendant but wanted to remain in the zone and move to the next hole quickly..... to play golf.

blackwhite

First Up wrote: »

Is anyone else tired of how US TV uses golf tournaments to glorify the military? You have stars and stripes flags, uniformed flunkies standing to attention beside greens, forcing players to salute or shake hands etc. Feherty seems to have embraced it all with gusto - more right wing than the local rednecks and positively drooling about those "who serve".
It is supposed to be sport for goodness sake.

Whilst I agree with most of the post - having the flag of their country displayed can hardly be claimed as an attempt to glorify their military.

SaveOurLyric

Golfers, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? Service men have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for our brave soldiers being acknowledged on the golf course. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that they probably saved lives. And their existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about, trundling up the fairway, wondering will you find your sliced drive, you want them on that course. You need them on that course.
They use words like honour, code, loyalty...they use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. They have neither the time nor the inclination to explain themselves to a man who chips and putts under the blanket of the very freedom they provide, then questions the manner in which they are acknowledged for it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post.

mister gullible

We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for golfers

First Up

SaveOurLyric wrote: »

Golfers, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? Service men have a greater responsibility than you can possibly fathom. You weep for our brave soldiers being acknowledged on the golf course. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what they know: that they probably saved lives. And their existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about, trundling up the fairway, wondering will you find your sliced drive, you want them on that course. You need them on that course.
They use words like honour, code, loyalty...they use these words as the backbone to a life spent defending something. You use 'em as a punchline. They have neither the time nor loothe inclination to explain themselves to a man who chips and putts under the blanket of the very freedom they provide, then questions the manner in which they are acknowledged for it! I'd rather you just said thank you and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon and stand a post.

We can debate that sort of claptrap somewhere else. I would just like golf and other sporting events to be about the contestants and the contest and not be a platform for anything else.

mister gullible

First Up wrote: »

We can debate that sort of claptrap somewhere else. I would just like golf and other sporting events to be about the contestants and the contest and not be a platform for anything else.

T'was tongue in cheek I think. (A few good men)

GreeBo

First Up wrote: »

We can debate that sort of claptrap somewhere else. I would just like golf and other sporting events to be about the contestants and the contest and not be a platform for anything else.

So no marching bands before rugby games?
No national anthems to be played?
No fighter jet flyovers?

First Up

GreeBo wrote: »

So no marching bands before rugby games?
No national anthems to be played?
No fighter jet flyovers?

Pre-game theatrics or entertainment can be debated - it could be argued they contribute to atmosphere. My objection is to bringing the military veneration thing into the conducting of the event itself.

Russman

First Up wrote: »

Pre-game theatrics or entertainment can be debated - it could be argued they contribute to atmosphere. My objection is to bringing the military veneration thing into the conducting of the event itself.

I can see where you're coming from alright. I think if it was just at one or two events and became a tradition of those events, it'd be better, like say, the madness of the 16th at Scottsdale, but I can see how its creeping more and more into the tour over there. Its almost like the military is now an essential part of a PGA Tour event, which I'm not sure is a good thing.

Then again, I'm not American, and probably don't appreciate how important military is to them over there, tbh its not even an irritation for me. Its their country, let them do what they want at an event. If the foreigners don't like it, the foreigners can go home.
Lots of towns/states over there have big military history that's woven into the fabric of their society, and if it was just at a few events, why should some event in Texas have an army representative over say, San Diego with its huge navy base ? When I've been over there in the last few years, it has seemed at times as if every second house has someone serving in some branch of their military, is having a flag tended to by a soldier such a big deal ? Rightly or wrongly its part of who they are, especially the golfers who are overwhelmingly supportive of one party over there.

bustercherry

You don't have to watch US events; like I say cancel the sky subscriptions and find something else to be offended at. The only hysteria I can see is on this thread.

Wombatman

bustercherry wrote: »

You don't have to watch US events; like I say cancel the sky subscriptions and find something else to be offended at. The only hysteria I can see is on this thread.

You don't have to abandon something entirely just because you disagree with an aspect of it.

I regularly come across dumbass posts on this site, that I disagree with, but that doesn't stop me from using the site.

I expect another one any minute now actually. :rolleyes:

First Up

bustercherry wrote: »

You don't have to watch US events; like I say cancel the sky subscriptions and find something else to be offended at. The only hysteria I can see is on this thread.

Easier to watch the golf with sound off and remote in hand. That gets me to bits I want.

paulos53

I hope the OP isn't watching the open on BBC right now