Irish Rail ticket problem: urgent response needed

KingOfTheSouth

Hi I was unable to purchase a ticket at the station. When the attendant came t take my ticket I told him my situation and offered him the money for the ticket. He refused me, told me he woudn't give me the fine and said the lads at the station might give me the fine. What do I do? I'm going from edgeworthstown to dublin connolly. Need a reply quickly.

RossieMan

Get off before Dublin and buy a cheap ticket?

KingOfTheSouth

can't/ Just landing in connolly

LoonyLovegood

Edgeworthstown doesn't have TVMS, explain in the station and you'll get a ticket

jimmii

You didn't purchase a ticket for your journey in fairness. Hopefully you get them on a good day and they are feeling generous and they will just let you pay the fare and not the fine.

RossieMan

just say you threw it in the bin? Say you were ignorant.

KingOfTheSouth

They have an automated system and an office. Man in office was about to send train away and I was unable to get to the automated machine.

efb

So you were late?

gugleguy

Provided you don't look and are not dress like a 3rd level student up to Dublin for the weekend, try and argue your case in a neutral tone and fashion. Just maybe the Irish rail staff areu are talking too in not in too much of a Ryanair mood.

LXFlyer

Unfortunately IE now operate a national penalty fares area, so that means that if you don't have a ticket you are liable for a fine.

Plead your case and you may be fortunate.

Hop on the next Dart out.. Most stations have gates open..

Frank Lee Midere

NoDrama wrote: »

Hop on the next Dart out.. Most stations have gates open..

That might work actually. Just go one stop.

Hilly Bill

Basically you had the option of buying a ticket but was late for your train so didnt bother and you wanted a way of not paying a fine?.
Its strange that the checker didnt take for the fare or issue a fine.

gugleguy

What is the upshot king of the south ?

foggy_lad

KingOfTheSouth wrote: »

Hi I was unable to purchase a ticket at the station. When the attendant came t take my ticket I told him my situation and offered him the money for the ticket. He refused me, told me he woudn't give me the fine and said the lads at the station might give me the fine. What do I do? I'm going from edgeworthstown to dublin connolly. Need a reply quickly.

Because the booking office was unattended and you did not have the opportunity to buy your ticket there you are entitled to board the train and buy your ticket on the train.

The staff member on the train should have fined you or sold you a ticket, By doing neither he/she has allowed you to travel for free so the staff at the station can not legally fine you for having no ticket.

gugleguy

OP is'nt bothered with this thread and our mingin' responses anymore. Don't y'all know he's gonna ring into Joe Duffy tomorrow.

con___manx1

next time take a shot of the broken machine with your phone as evedince

evolving_doors

con___manx1 wrote: »

next time take a shot of the broken machine with your phone as evedince

Or book the ticket online with the same phone you are using now!

markpb

Armelodie wrote: »

Or book the ticket online with the same phone you are using now!

Is there still a 2h cut-off time before departure for online bookings? That was annoying the last time I wanted to take a trip at short notice. Also the lack of clarity around if/how you can change the return date on an online ticket (which isn't an issue with a station issued ticket) puts a lot of people off booking online. I agree that there are great deals to be had online but I'm lost about why they made it a less flexible product than a station issued ticket.

discus

How ridiculous is this whole situation?! You'd never get that sort of carry on in the UK - if you get on a train without a ticket, you should still be able to buy one onboard. It happens me quite a bit here in the Uk, where I've turned up just as the train was departing, and there has not once been a problem.

markpb

discus wrote: »

How ridiculous is this whole situation?! You'd never get that sort of carry on in the UK - if you get on a train without a ticket, you should still be able to buy one onboard. It happens me quite a bit here in the Uk, where I've turned up just as the train was departing, and there has not once been a problem.

Different countries have different rules. In the UK they also charge extortionate costs for last minute IC tickets. Should we copy that as well?

LXFlyer

discus wrote: »

How ridiculous is this whole situation?! You'd never get that sort of carry on in the UK - if you get on a train without a ticket, you should still be able to buy one onboard. It happens me quite a bit here in the Uk, where I've turned up just as the train was departing, and there has not once been a problem.

Maybe on certain trains in the UK in more rural areas, but get on any long distance service or virtually all commuter services without a ticket and you will end up paying for it dearly in the form of the most expensive fare, and a penalty thrown in!

discus

lxflyer wrote: »

Maybe on certain trains in the UK in more rural areas, but get on any long distance service or virtually all commuter services without a ticket and you will end up paying for it dearly in the form of the most expensive fare, and a penalty thrown in!

Negative on that, lxflyer. I've done that from London to Scotland, all over southern england from Plymouth-Exeter to Scotland, small lines around exeter... Never an issue. More than once I've been told to buy it once I get to the station, I've done that and nothing more was said. I've never had to buy any extortionate tickets either, but then again I travel at super-off peak times usually.

discus

markpb wrote: »

Different countries have different rules. In the UK they also charge extortionate costs for last minute IC tickets. Should we copy that as well?

Why would we copy their ****test rules? Surely, we could just copy their better rules?

L1011

discus wrote: »

How ridiculous is this whole situation?! You'd never get that sort of carry on in the UK - if you get on a train without a ticket, you should still be able to buy one onboard. It happens me quite a bit here in the Uk, where I've turned up just as the train was departing, and there has not once been a problem.

That's because the UK has properly working ticket machines or permit-to-travel machines at all but the tiniest stations; and ticket bye laws that understand what a ticket machine is at that.

LXFlyer

discus wrote: »

Negative on that, lxflyer. I've done that from London to Scotland, all over southern england from Plymouth-Exeter to Scotland, small lines around exeter... Never an issue. More than once I've been told to buy it once I get to the station, I've done that and nothing more was said. I've never had to buy any extortionate tickets either, but then again I travel at super-off peak times usually.

I can assure you that normal practice is that you would be charged the full fare and possibly a penalty. You were rather fortunate.

It does depend, however, on where you board the train. But I have on more than one occasion witnessed people being issued with full fares and a penalty.

http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/faqs/ticket-questions/can-i-board-a-train-if-the-ticket-office-queue-is-too-long

If you do get on the train without having bought a ticket and there were facilities to pay, or you did not get permission from station staff to get on without a ticket, you may be prosecuted for fare evasion, charged the full fare for the journey or issued with a penalty fare.

I suggest that you also read:
http://www.passengerfocus.org.uk/faqs/ticket-inspection-penalties/what-can-happen-if-i-am-on-a-train-without-a-valid-ticket

Examples:
East Midlands Trains - Any station with a red dot: http://www.eastmidlandstrains.co.uk/Global/banners/New%20Network%20Map%20A4%20poster.pdf (Basically the entire mainline)

Greater Anglia - https://www.ircas.co.uk/docs/GA_Penalty_Fares_Leaflet.pdf (Basically all London routes)

London Midland - http://www.londonmidland.com/download/9800.7/revised-penalty-fares-booklet/ (Most of the network)

First Great Western
East - http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/TicketsAndTrainTimes/BuyBeforeYouBoard/PenaltyFares-map-A.ashx
Central - http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/TicketsAndTrainTimes/BuyBeforeYouBoard/PenaltFares-map-B.ashx
West - http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/~/media/PDF/TicketsAndTrainTimes/BuyBeforeYouBoard/PenaltyFares-map-C.ashx

Julius Seizure

I think something like Belgium could work here. Over there you can get on without a ticket but if you don't immediately seek the ticket checker you get a fine (i.e uoi have to go to him not the other way). You buy a ticket for the normal price if a station is unmanned or closed, or at night. Otherwise you pay a €2 surcharge.

Copyerselveson

discus wrote: »

How ridiculous is this whole situation?! You'd never get that sort of carry on in the UK - if you get on a train without a ticket, you should still be able to buy one onboard. It happens me quite a bit here in the Uk, where I've turned up just as the train was departing, and there has not once been a problem.

No you would not get a ticket on board, you'd get a penalty fare. You can't travel without a ticket here in England.

Hilly Bill

markpb wrote: »

Is there still a 2h cut-off time before departure for online bookings? That was annoying the last time I wanted to take a trip at short notice. Also the lack of clarity around if/how you can change the return date on an online ticket (which isn't an issue with a station issued ticket) puts a lot of people off booking online. I agree that there are great deals to be had online but I'm lost about why they made it a less flexible product than a station issued ticket.

90 mins.

may06

KingOfTheSouth wrote: »

can't/ Just landing in connolly

You should have being able to purchase ticket in Connolly then?

Losty Dublin

may06 wrote: »

You should have being able to purchase ticket in Connolly then?

The ticket office machines at Connolly are outside the barrier. To purchase at the station you'd have to leave through the gates, puurchase a ticket and then enter through the gates again. Having a ticket machine on the station side would allow for passengers who genuinely have good reason to travel without a ticket to purchase one; however it is too open to abuse by those who had good chance to purchase same.

gugleguy

OP you have'nt provided any update over the last 48 hours. That's all I have to say as googletroll.;)

may06

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The ticket office machines at Connolly are outside the barrier. To purchase at the station you'd have to leave through the gates, puurchase a ticket and then enter through the gates again. Having a ticket machine on the station side would allow for passengers who genuinely have good reason to travel without a ticket to purchase one; however it is too open to abuse by those who had good chance to purchase same.

Not true, not sure when you were last in Connolly? - you can purchase tickets, at the ticket booth, just before you exit through the doors before the barriers- the ticket booth itself is located just at the start of platform 4..While I'm not sure if it is manned all day long, but it has a ticket seller there every morning, to facilitate those who have no tickets to purchase them, before you exit thro the barriers. Check it out next time you are in Connolly :-)

markpb

may06 wrote: »

Not true, not sure when you were last in Connolly? - you can purchase tickets, at the ticket booth, just before you exit through the doors before the barriers- the ticket booth itself is located just at the start of platform 4..While I'm not sure if it is manned all day long, but it has a ticket seller there every morning, to facilitate those who have no tickets to purchase them, before you exit thro the barriers. Check it out next time you are in Connolly :-)

AFAIK they'll only sell you tickets if you were legitimately unable to buy a ticket at your origin, eg Broombridge. They'll happily take your details and issue you a fine if you don't have a ticket for any other reason.

LXFlyer

Correct - as I pointed out above, the entire Irish Rail network (with very few exceptions) is now a penalty fare area.

Every ticket gate has a vinyl notice warning passengers of this - you must have a ticket before travelling.

The booth is where they issue the penalty fare notices.

http://www.irishrail.ie/media/fixedpenaltydlleaflet1.pdf?v=grhucpe

may06

markpb wrote: »

AFAIK they'll only sell you tickets if you were legitimately unable to buy a ticket at your origin, eg Broombridge. They'll happily take your details and issue you a fine if you don't have a ticket for any other reason.

OP got on in Edgeworthstown - the ticket office is not always open there frequently and the vending machine, last time i was there, is not in operation. Now if OP was unable to buy a ticket, due to the fact the either the ticket office was closed/vending machine not working - then he has a legitimate reason. My friend boards the 0540 (from Longford) in Edgeworthstown few mornings a week, ticketless (for reasons listed above) - purchases his ticket in Connolly, at said booth, without issues..OP could well have being in the same situation perhaps?

Jamie2k9

may06 wrote: »

OP got on in Edgeworthstown - the ticket office is not always open there frequently and the vending machine, last time i was there, is not in operation. Now if OP was unable to buy a ticket, due to the fact the either the ticket office was closed/vending machine not working - then he has a legitimate reason. My friend boards the 0540 (from Longford) in Edgeworthstown few mornings a week, ticketless (for reasons listed above) - purchases his ticket in Connolly, at said booth, without issues..OP could well have being in the same situation perhaps?

If you read the OP's first few posts, the ticket off was open and he was about to clear the train for departure when the OP rolled up to the station and expected them to delay the train while a ticket was issued!

discus

Copyerselveson wrote: »

No you would not get a ticket on board, you'd get a penalty fare. You can't travel without a ticket here in England.

A fair few times I've approached the guard/conductor and checked if I could buy a ticket on board. Maybe it's because I always have 40kgs of luggage with me that they take pity? Never been issued a penalty fair, and last year I spent 2000 pounds on train fairs alone - and that's with military discount...

Grolschevik

Yep, the OP clearly said that the office was open and manned, but that the train was about to leave and that he/she couldn't/wouldn't make it to the automated machines. So he/she knowingly got on without a ticket that it would have been possible to buy.

That said, the facility to buy tickets on the train or at the destination just makes sense.

LXFlyer

Grolschevik wrote: »

Yep, the OP clearly said that the office was open and manned, but that the train was about to leave and that he/she couldn't/wouldn't make it to the automated machines. So he/she knowingly got on without a ticket that it would have been possible to buy.

That said, the facility to buy tickets on the train or at the destination just makes sense.

Whether or not it makes sense is no longer applicable, unfortunately. IE have, as I have pointed out above, made the network a penalty fare area - in other words you must always get a ticket before boarding unless it is impossible to do so due to there being no facilities available.

LXFlyer

discus wrote: »

A fair few times I've approached the guard/conductor and checked if I could buy a ticket on board. Maybe it's because I always have 40kgs of luggage with me that they take pity? Never been issued a penalty fair, and last year I spent 2000 pounds on train fairs alone - and that's with military discount...

I think the last three words of your post probably explains why you've got away with it.

Copyerselveson

lxflyer wrote: »

I think the last three words of your post probably explains why you've got away with it.

40kgs of luggage? Military discount? If you are in the armed forces and carrying a service card or in uniform then you will certainly get the benefit of the doubt. The rest of us won't.

may06

Grolschevik wrote: »

Yep, the OP clearly said that the office was open and manned, but that the train was about to leave and that he/she couldn't/wouldn't make it to the automated machines. So he/she knowingly got on without a ticket that it would have been possible to buy.

That said, the facility to buy tickets on the train or at the destination just makes sense.

Ok i missed that bit where he said office was open, hence he could have got ticket. But, that failing, office not open/machine not functionioning (as pe normal) he could have got his ticket in Connolly as I already outlined. Though it is also daft that ticket could not have being purchased on board that same train too.

Grolschevik

Yeah, recently the machines at my station were broken and the office was closed. I took video of me trying to work the machine and then got on the next train.

At Connolly, I went looking for the Revenue Protection Officer. Everyone else just went up to the guy at the barrier.

When I found the Revenue Officer (a young, very apologetic jobsworth type), he said that he had no choice but to issue me with the standard fare, but told me to email in an appeal as soon as possible.

I went up and spoke to the guy on the barrier, who said he'd been selling people retrospective tickets all morning, and that I should have just come up to him!

Anyway, emailed Irish Rail explaining the circumstances and quoting part of the relevant byelaw. Got a very prompt cancellation of the fine and an apology.