No seatbelt, points & fine

pudzey101

got pulled yesterday (had my belt on at this stage) and the guard said he saw me 5mins beforehand with no belt, said il be gettin a 60e fine an 2 points , where do i stand here or will i just have to take it on the chin ???

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

Exactly the same thing happened me, except it was a week before Christmas, and me being a broke wee apprentice at the time, I put the fine on the "long finger" and ended up forgetting all about it. I never heard a word about it again, no summons, nothing.

Doesn't mean you'll be so lucky though.

Henry Ford III

pudzey101 wrote: »

got pulled yesterday (had my belt on at this stage) and the guard said he saw me 5mins beforehand with no belt, said il be gettin a 60e fine an 2 points , where do i stand here or will i just have to take it on the chin ???

Are you suggesting he lied? Why would he do that?

pudzey101

Duracell Bunny wrote: »

Exactly the same thing happened me, except it was a week before Christmas, and me being a broke wee apprentice at the time, I put the fine on the "long finger" and ended up forgetting all about it. I never heard a word about it again, no summons, nothing.

Doesn't mean you'll be so lucky though.

no court appearance ? i drove away without putting the belt on me but DID put it on after pulling out of my parking spot.

Jesus.

Hard luck there OP. You'll probably just have to suck it up and take the hit.

You could chance leaving it like Bunny did but it could come back to bite you in the Aras.

Snake

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Are you suggesting he lied? Why would he do that?

Bored probably.

pudzey101

He is a well known hard guard that would do people for the smallest of things to be honest , just wrote it down in his notebook anyway never asked for my driving license few people i know are still waiting for fines+points for things that happend months ago

Jesus.

There are Guards and then there are Guards...

Henry Ford III

pudzey101 wrote: »

no court appearance ? i drove away without putting the belt on me but DID put it on after pulling out of my parking spot.

Pay the fine and accept the points then. You are guilty of an offence.

cormac_byrne

pudzey101 wrote: »

no court appearance ? i drove away without putting the belt on me but DID put it on after pulling out of my parking spot.

Did you reverse out of the parking space?
You don't need belt on for reversing.

djimi

He saw you where/how exactly with no belt on 5 minutes earlier? Considering the only way that he could see it for sure would be to peer through the window as he stands beside the car, the question should be asked a) why didnt he pull you over the first time, and b) could he provide credible proof/story to back up his claim in front of a judge?

Snake

djimi wrote: »

He saw you where/how exactly with no belt on 5 minutes earlier? Considering the only way that he could see it for sure would be to peer through the window as he stands beside the car, the question should be asked a) why didnt he pull you over the first time, and b) could he provide credible proof/story to back up his claim in front of a judge?

He wouldn't need to. He's a Garda that's enough to be believed

pudzey101

yeah i think myself no way out of it , he passed me going up the street he said he could see the silver buckle of the belt beside me meaning it wasnt on . but when he did eventually turn around and pulled along side me i HAD it on

Snake

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Pay the fine and accept the points then. You are guilty of an offence.

Oh will you give over. He was hardly going to crash and end up through the windscreen coming out of a parking space. Trying to get a good look around if you're pulling out is impossible with a belt on

Jesus.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

You are guilty of an offence.

:rolleyes:

christy02

Clippity clip.....here they come lol

I sit into my car and automatically put the belt on. That's before I start the ignition. If I forgot like the op, I would pay the fine and take the points and would remember that every time I got in my car.

Jesus.

Deleted User wrote: »

I sit into my car and automatically put the belt on. That's before I start the ignition. If I forgot like the op, I would pay the fine and take the points and would remember that every time I got in my car.

You don't think its a bit of overkill from the Guards, doing a guy just pulling out of a car park? Aren't there more important things they could be doing, like catching real criminals? (Its a Cliche I know )

ironclaw

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Oh will you give over. He was hardly going to crash and end up through the windscreen coming out of a parking space. Trying to get a good look around if you're pulling out is impossible with a belt on

I can see pretty well even with a race harness on me. If you don't wear a seat belt automatically your frankly an idiot. You don't have to be doing anywhere near the speed people think you do before a seat belt can help. Just because your conducting a low speed manourve, doesn't mean the clown that hits you isn't doing 50km/h+

'I can't see with a seat belt on' is probably the worst excuse I've ever heard. A standard seat doesn't restrict your neck or upper body to the point where you can't see all around you, if it does, then I worry about your overall ability to drive.

bucketybuck

ironclaw wrote: »

'I can't see with a seat belt on' is probably the worst excuse I've ever heard.

It also helps identify the idiots that can't use their mirrors properly.

cormac_byrne

ironclaw wrote: »

'I can't see with a seat belt on' is probably the worst excuse I've ever heard. A standard seat doesn't restrict your neck or upper body to the point where you can't see all around you, if it does, then I worry about your overall ability to drive.

A seatbelt does impact some peoples ability to look out of the rear window when attempting to reverse

For this reason they're specifically exempted while reversing

http://www.garda.ie/Controller.aspx?Page=1724&Lang=1

Are there any exemptions to wearing a seatbelt?
Yes, the following exemptions apply:–

A person occupying a seat which is not fitted with a seat belt
A person wearing a disabled person’s belt
The holder of a certificate from a Registered Medical Practitioner stating that it is inadvisable on medical grounds to wear a safety belt
The driver of a vehicle while reversing the vehicle
Driving test examiner conducting a test
Driving Instructor
Member of An Garda Síochána or Defence Forces in the course of his/her duty


Anyhow as far as the OP is concerned it doesn't appear he was reversing.

The Garda saw him driving without belt on and stopped him as soon as was practical.

@OP The Guard stopped you and told you why he stopped you, if you didn't dispute his version of events there and then, you've pretty much admitted to the offence. Best hope is that he's not bothered to do the paperwork.

Jesus.

ironclaw wrote: »

I can see pretty well even with a race harness on me. If you don't wear a seat belt automatically your frankly an idiot. You don't have to be doing anywhere near the speed people think you do before a seat belt can help. Just because your conducting a low speed manourve, doesn't mean the clown that hits you isn't doing 50km/h+

Pulling out of a fukking car park? Are you for real????

I bet you never cross the road unless the green man is showing either...

uck51js9zml2yt

Jesus. wrote: »

Pulling out of a fukking car park? Are you for real????

I bet you never cross the road unless the green man is showing either...

We all know a accidents don't happen pulling out of parking spaces... Don't we?

Henry Ford III

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Oh will you give over. He was hardly going to crash and end up through the windscreen coming out of a parking space. Trying to get a good look around if you're pulling out is impossible with a belt on

Black and white issue. Looking behind you isn't impossible with a seat belt on either.

Hang 'em high is my view.

slimjimmc

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Oh will you give over. He was hardly going to crash and end up through the windscreen coming out of a parking space. Trying to get a good look around if you're pulling out is impossible with a belt on

Q: So why isn't there a massive volume of incidents where people are crashing into things around them because their seatbelt makes it impossible for them to get good look around despite the vast majority of drivers I've seen drive off being already belted up?

A: The inertia reel of your seatbelt is designed to give you sufficient freedom of movement to lean forward or look over your shoulder to check around you, so if its functioning properly then there is no reason why a seatbelt would prevent you from having good visibility.

cormac_byrne

slimjimmc wrote: »

The inertia reel of your seatbelt is designed to give you sufficient freedom of movement to lean forward or look over your shoulder to check around you, so if its functioning properly then there is no reason why a seatbelt would prevent you from having good visibility.

Older cars don't have inertia reels.

Yes most people with most current belts can turn suficently, but not all, hence the exception in the law.

Renegade Mechanic

pudzey101 wrote: »

got pulled yesterday (had my belt on at this stage) and the guard said he saw me 5mins beforehand with no belt, said il be gettin a 60e fine an 2 points , where do i stand here or will i just have to take it on the chin ???

If he truthfully saw you with your belt off then you'll have to take this one on the chin Im afraid:(

Jesus.

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Black and white issue...

Hang 'em high is my view.

Which just about sums up the Boards.ie/Motors attitude to every Mickey Mouse, lack of common sense issue regarding driving and the police. It still amazes me, this servile bullsh*t attitude being so prevalent on here. It really is quite incredible. The infallible Government and its police force can do no wrong.

How about a farmer up a boreen with grass in the middle of the road, moves his friends car out of his driveway to get his car out to go collect his daughter or someone and Mr Plod happens to be cycling past and notices the chap hadn't his safety belt on while swapping the cars around and promptly issues him with points and a fine. "Hang 'em high" because everything is "black and white", eh?

Pathetic

slimjimmc

cormac_byrne wrote: »

Older cars don't have inertia reels.

Yes most people with most current belts can turn suficently, but not all, hence the exception in the law.

Inertia reels are pretty much standard in front seats on cars since the 80's.
And I agree, some people have difficulties turning around to look behind them before/while reversing which is fine, but the post I replied to said seatbelts make it impossible to check around you, which is blatantly false, as (as you said yourself) most people get on fine.

Henry Ford III

Jesus. wrote: »

...How about a farmer up a boreen with grass in the middle of the road, moves his friends car out of his driveway to get his car out to go collect his daughter or someone and Mr Plod happens to be cycling past and notices the chap hadn't his safety belt on while swapping the cars around and promptly issues him with points and a fine. "Hang 'em high" because everything is "black and white", eh?

Pathetic

Hang him high too!

Jesus.

No Pants

Jesus. wrote: »

Aren't there more important things they could be doing, like catching real criminals? (Its a Cliche I know )

No, they caught all the murderers and the illegal drug trade no longer exists.

TimeToShine

Considering it's a motors forum the general attitude towards people getting robbed of what is a day's wages for some is ridiculous. The "I'm delighted for you" brigade need to feck off to another board.

OP, I feel for you but it was a mistake. Pay it and move on.

Del2005

TimeToShine wrote: »

Considering it's a motors forum the general attitude towards people getting robbed of what is a day's wages for some is ridiculous. The "I'm delighted for you" brigade need to feck off to another board.

Considering it's such an easy fine to avoid I've no sympathy for someone who gets fined for no seat belt. If your seatbelt so restricts you while driving that you need to remove it to see then there are bigger issues with your driving abilities and if it doesn't restrict your movement then tough.

pippip

Unless I missed something, the op didn't put on their belt and pulled out of a parking spot onto a street. While on the street they drove by a garda who noticed they hadn't their belt on, probably didn't even see the op pull out of a parking spot. I don't think you can really blame the garda unless you want them to choose which laws they are to enforce and ignore.

Sorry op, just seems you were unfortunate in this case.

No Pants

cormac_byrne wrote: »

Driving test examiner conducting a test
Driving Instructor
Member of An Garda Síochána or Defence Forces in the course of his/her duty

I understood the other examples being exempt, as wearing a seatbelt is either impossible for the driver or not needed. I don't understand the above examples.

Jesus.

Why do the Mods keep deleting people's posts without informing them? Especially posts with no bad language whatsoever and legitimate points being made?

I don't get it

ironclaw

No Pants wrote: »

I understood the other examples being exempt, as wearing a seatbelt is either impossible for the driver or not needed. I don't understand the above examples.

I know its standard practise for police forces to disable air bags and cut out in the event of a collision as well. And most close quarter protection units won't wear a belt in city traffic, the idea being you can get out quick. I'd imagine thats the rationale behind the Garda exemption.

The only thing I can think about for instructors or tests is the ability to grab the wheel or take some emergency corrective action that would be limited by a belt. Personally, if that was the case I'd rather have the belt on as your not going to have the time to react at any sort of speed.

markpb

TimeToShine wrote: »

Considering it's a motors forum the general attitude towards people getting robbed of what is a day's wages for some is ridiculous. The "I'm delighted for you" brigade need to feck off to another board.

OP, I feel for you but it was a mistake. Pay it and move on.

The OPs case isn't like someone who got points for being <5kph over the limit or someone who was dubiously clamped by private clampers. Putting on a seatbelt should be the first thing any driver does before they start their car. There's just no good reason not to and anyone who is foolish enough to trip over the black & white laws that are effortless to follow deserves no sympathy.

I don't know what relevance this being the motors forum has. Do you think everyone here is an anarchist, a member of Hells Angels and the writer of **** Da Police?

Jesus.

pippip wrote: »

I don't think you can really blame the garda unless you want them to choose which laws they are to enforce and ignore.

Seriously? You think everything's as black and white as that?

No need for common sense in the Garda profession then, just a rule book and a yes or no?

markpb wrote: »

I don't know what relevance this being the motors forum has. Do you think everyone here is an anarchist, a member of Hells Angels and the writer of **** Da Police?

Its relevant in my opinion. I'm still amazed that a Motors Forum could be populated with so many "squares" who just want their fellow motorists to be stung by the authorities as often as possible. The great and good Government and its police force can do no wrong.

I find it bizarre for a Forum such as this.

markpb

Jesus. wrote: »

Seriously? You think everything's as black and white as that?

No need for common sense in the Garda profession then, just a rule book and a yes or no?

There are plenty of rules that can, and are, applied with Garda discretion. Not wearing a seatbelt is harder one - you're either wearing on as required or you're not. What discretion could a Garda apply in this case?

Its relevant in my opinion. I'm still amazed that a Motors Forum could be populated with so many "squares" who just want their fellow motorists to be stung by the authorities as often as possible. The great and good Government and its police force can do no wrong. I find it bizarre for a Forum such as this.

I still don't see why. Motorists aren't a logical group like, say members of a lobby group or a political party - they're just people who drive to get from a to b or just for pleasure. There's no commonality, no conspiracy theory, nothing that binds us together. If you think everyone else who sits behind the wheel of a car cares about your personal opinions about the Gardai or the application of the law, you're sadly mistaken. We have no greater connection with or empathy towards other drivers than we do towards other people also wearing brown shoes today.

Jesus.

markpb wrote: »

There are plenty of rules that can, and are, applied with Garda discretion. Not wearing a seatbelt is harder one - you're either wearing on as required or you're not. What discretion could a Garda apply in this case?

Well its quite obvious to me. If you see a guy reversing out of a car park space without his seat belt on, leave him be as its likely he'll put it on when he gets out.

If you see someone driving out on the open road without one on, its a more serious offence and by all means "do" him.



(I use "serious offence" in the loosest possible terms because if you ask an average Guard, particularly in rough areas, where that ranks in the list of real sh*t they have to deal with regularly, they'd probably laugh at you.)

hrcbob

pudzey101 wrote: »

He is a well known hard guard that would do people for the smallest of things to be honest , just wrote it down in his notebook anyway never asked for my driving license few people i know are still waiting for fines+points for things that happend months ago

Been a while since i got an on the spot fine but back then they had a specific form they filled out with a tic box part for what youd done wrong, They kept 2 of the 3 coppies and gave me the one i needed to produce to pay the fine. Licence number and full name and address was filled in on it,

Unlesss that has changed and they now issue stuff by post id say just forget about it and dont let him catch you again or he will do you for it,,
Its just like a bit of a headf**k warning on his part id say,,

challengemaster

Jesus. wrote: »

Its relevant in my opinion. I'm still amazed that a Motors Forum could be populated with so many "squares" who just want their fellow motorists to be stung by the authorities as often as possible. The great and good Government and its police force can do no wrong.

I find it bizarre for a Forum such as this.

There's plenty of rightful criticism for the gardaí on here where they're not up to scratch, but this isn't one of those times. As a motoring forum, I think we all want to see as little loss of life on the roads. Seatbelts save lives in accidents, and you're an absolute idiot if you don't wear one (ignoring exemptions).

markpb

Jesus. wrote: »

Well its quite obvious to me. If you see a guy reversing out of a car park space without his seat belt on, leave him be as its likely he'll put it on when he gets out.

What you've mentioned is legal, there's no need for discretion.

Tail Docker

Del2005 wrote: »

Considering it's such an easy fine to avoid I've no sympathy for someone who gets fined for no seat belt. If your seatbelt so restricts you while driving that you need to remove it to see then there are bigger issues with your driving abilities and if it doesn't restrict your movement then tough.

Well, as a non-black and whiteey one - me and my mate pulled up to a checkpoint - he was driving, a paj jeep, the gard asked him for his licence, so he leaned over to the glovebox to get it, and the belt popped out of the receiver..it just feckin did, first time I saw that happen - the lad was wearing a big heavy wax jacket and it must have been tangled/whatever.

Guess what, the Gard did him for no seatbelt. He said that the driver had just quickly popped it on as he came up to the checkpoint. Which he hadn't, as yer mans as square as a box of lego. He got a fine and points.

If I hadn't been sitting there, and someone told me this, I'd laugh and tell them to stop spoofing. No amount of reasoning or explaining made a blind bit of difference on the day, the Gard was implacable.

No Pants

ironclaw wrote: »

I know its standard practise for police forces to disable air bags and cut out in the event of a collision as well. And most close quarter protection units won't wear a belt in city traffic, the idea being you can get out quick. I'd imagine thats the rationale behind the Garda exemption.

The only thing I can think about for instructors or tests is the ability to grab the wheel or take some emergency corrective action that would be limited by a belt. Personally, if that was the case I'd rather have the belt on as your not going to have the time to react at any sort of speed.

Fair enough on the Garda reasoning, although it must be risky for the individual Gardai, given the job that they do and the increased chances of a collision, with no airbag and possibly no seat belt. There's no training you can attend that'll null the laws of physics.

However, if an instructor or tester can't reach your steering wheel from the passenger seat, they must be a serious shortarse. I would have thought that the risk or collision was also higher for them, given the inexperience of the driver.

djimi

Jesus. wrote: »

Its relevant in my opinion. I'm still amazed that a Motors Forum could be populated with so many "squares" who just want their fellow motorists to be stung by the authorities as often as possible. The great and good Government and its police force can do no wrong.

I find it bizarre for a Forum such as this.

I get the impression that you (and others) seem to feel that because this is a motors forum we should all be against motoring laws and enforecement or something, and honestly I have no idea where you get this idea from. Nobody wants to see people get stung as often as possible, however if you get done for breaking the law then so be it. We can all come on here and have a whinge about how ridiculous some motoring laws are, but the bottom line is that we all know the laws, so its hard to have sympathy for someone who has been done for breaking them.

Oafley Jones

djimi wrote: »

I get the impression that you (and others) seem to feel that because this is a motors forum we should all be against motoring laws and enforecement or something, and honestly I have no idea where you get this idea from. Nobody wants to see people get stung as often as possible, however if you get done for breaking the law then so be it. We can all come on here and have a whinge about how ridiculous some motoring laws are, but the bottom line is that we all know the laws, so its hard to have sympathy for someone who has been done for breaking them.

Just read the thread and sure enough there's the usual gombeenism from the same people. I can see why people are quitting this forum.

Jesus.

djimi wrote: »

I get the impression that you (and others) seem to feel that because this is a motors forum we should all be against motoring laws and enforecement or something, and honestly I have no idea where you get this idea from. Nobody wants to see people get stung as often as possible, however if you get done for breaking the law then so be it. We can all come on here and have a whinge about how ridiculous some motoring laws are, but the bottom line is that we all know the laws, so its hard to have sympathy for someone who has been done for breaking them.

No, of course I don't. What I'm very surprised at is no matter what the situation is, no matter how innocent, the default position of a lot of posters is automatically with the authorities instead of their fellow motorists. I can't quite understand that mentality to be honest.

Again, you're describing things in very simplistic terms. The laws are the laws and they should never be broken. Its a ridiculous notion that has no relevance in the real World. There are countless situations that I see every week where technically, according to the rule book, the person would be breaking a law but in reality its either inconsequential or actually a practical necessity. What's more, if I was a fly on the dash of one of the HHB's cars, they'd technically "break the law" at least once a day. But they then come on here and act all high and mighty like perfect, docile little citizens. Its amusing to read at times.

Forgive me if I thought the one place Motorists would have a bit of empathy toward one another would be on a Motorists Forum!

Kimbot

pudzey101 wrote: »

got pulled yesterday (had my belt on at this stage) and the guard said he saw me 5mins beforehand with no belt, said il be gettin a 60e fine an 2 points , where do i stand here or will i just have to take it on the chin ???

OK all the people whinging on the thread, the OP clearly stated that he had he belt on when the Guard actually pulled him. He didnt state when he actually put his belt on, for all we know it could have been as the guard walked towards the car when pulling him. I think the OP needs to shed some more light on it tbh.