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Is this legal?

  • 04-07-2014 2:16pm
    #1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭


    Where do we go from here?

    Landlord recently showed up at our door, banging on it for 15 minutes and shouting out my partner's name, ssying "I know you are in there". I went home to see what was happening. When she gained access she demanded half the rent in cash (even though it normally goes via electronic transfer) and then she followed me to my place of work and came in demanding more money and shouting abuse at me. Had to be removed by security. Very distressing episode. She told me she will change locks and put me on the street at the weekend.

    afaik this is not legal? Any idea what we can do to protect ourselves? Can I register an attempted illegal eviction with PRTB? Can we get some kind of order to stop her showing up and intimidating us?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,772 ✭✭✭byronbay2


    What reasons did she give to justify her actions??


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    byronbay2 wrote: »
    What reasons did she give to justify her actions??

    That our rent had gone up by 100 a month since January (first I heard since we have a signed lease valid until August) and that we were therefore 600 in arrears :confused:

    I'm more concerned about her turning up at my place of work and humiliating me in front of others :(


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,243 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Where do we go from here?

    Landlord recently showed up at our door, banging on it for 15 minutes and shouting out my partner's name, ssying "I know you are in there". I went home to see what was happening. When she gained access she demanded half the rent in cash (even though it normally goes via electronic transfer) and then she followed me to my place of work and came in demanding more money and shouting abuse at me. Had to be removed by security. Very distressing episode. She told me she will change locks and put me on the street at the weekend.

    afaik this is not legal? Any idea what we can do to protect ourselves? Can I register an attempted illegal eviction with PRTB? Can we get some kind of order to stop her showing up and intimidating us?
    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    That our rent had gone up by 100 a month since January (first I heard since we have a signed lease valid until August) and that we were therefore 600 in arrears :confused:


    Cant do either. Speak to the PRTB and lodge a case now. If she does change the locks and break they lease illegally I wouldnt fancy being her


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    godtabh wrote: »
    Cant do either. Speak to the PRTB and lodge a case now. If she does change the locks and break they lease illegally I wouldnt fancy being her

    Yeah I had a look online and she seems out of order alright. The problem is just because a LL "cant" do something (or "shouldn't") doesn't mean she wont... :( Is there anything we can do to protect ourselves from her? For all I know she could let herself in at the weekend, or park herself outside and resume shouting. I imagine we cannot change the locks without her consent, and I want to keep my own bib clean in case we go legal :(


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 hereford


    pay what you owe her
    it would be easier in the long term


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    You are entitled to quite enjoyment. If she turns up again ring the Gardai.


  • Moderators, Regional Midwest Moderators Posts: 11,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭MarkR


    hereford wrote: »
    pay what you owe her
    it would be easier in the long term

    You can't up the rent during the period covered by the lease though?

    PRTB all the way, and let the land lady know what you are doing, and why.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    hereford wrote: »
    pay what you owe her
    it would be easier in the long term

    He owes nothing if he wasnt notified of the change in rent!

    OP, if she calls at the weekend then ring the Guards and tell them you are illegally been evicted, if she starts shouting then tell them she is harrasing you.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    hereford wrote: »
    pay what you owe her
    it would be easier in the long term


    I dont owe her anything?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    He owes nothing if he wasnt notified of the change in rent!

    OP, if she calls at the weekend then ring the Guards and tell them you are illegally been evicted, if she starts shouting then tell them she is harrasing you.


    Just reg'd with PRTB now. I told her I would call the guards when she was there and she said they already knew she was there and had given her "the ok" - tf? Also, would it be a civil matter? If I called them would I be wasting my time and theirs? I've heard from people before that they tend not to get involved with LL/ten disputes


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Just reg'd with PRTB now. I told her I would call the guards when she was there and she said they already knew she was there and had given her "the ok" - tf? Also, would it be a civil matter? If I called them would I be wasting my time and theirs? I've heard from people before that they tend not to get involved with LL/ten disputes

    Civil dispute or not, she is using threatening and intimidating behavior towards you.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    Lodge a case with the PRTB, start looking for a new place to live, and pray she's idiotic enough to change the locks.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Just reg'd with PRTB now. I told her I would call the guards when she was there and she said they already knew she was there and had given her "the ok" - tf? Also, would it be a civil matter? If I called them would I be wasting my time and theirs? I've heard from people before that they tend not to get involved with LL/ten disputes

    Just don't tell them its the LL when you call them. Then when the Guards get there...then explain what happened!

    Sounds like your dealing with a bit of a lunatic so you did the right thing bringing it up with the PRTB.

    Best of luck!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    Civil dispute or not, she is using threatening and intimidating behavior towards you.

    True enough. I just didn't want to waste police time but if she comes around shouting and screaming again, I guess I wont have a choice. She seems to think she can just take the law into her own hands. I'm nervous every time I go home now as I dont know if she is crazy enough to let herself in, change locks etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Lodge a case with the PRTB, start looking for a new place to live, and pray she's idiotic enough to change the locks.

    We're planning on leaving anyway, but we've paid our rent and want to at least get the month out of that. We've pretty much accepted she wont give us back our deposit. But we still need a week or two to find someplace else.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Ashbx wrote: »
    Just don't tell them its the LL when you call them. Then when the Guards get there...then explain what happened!

    Sounds like your dealing with a bit of a lunatic so you did the right thing bringing it up with the PRTB.

    Best of luck!

    lol, really?

    "ahem...there's a mad woman at my door" - only a lie by ommission I guess :P


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    Signing a new lease can be seen as implicit acceptance of a rent review at the old rate, however this is not exactly clear (although that's the reasoning I would use with the PRTB). Notification of a rent rise must be 28 days, which appears never happened in your case. Also, the landlord waiting 6/7 months to raise the issue of the arrears reflects badly on them, not to mention the bullying tactics.

    You've a pretty solid case with the PRTB


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,808 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    We're planning on leaving anyway, but we've paid our rent and want to at least get the month out of that. We've pretty much accepted she wont give us back our deposit. But we still need a week or two to find someplace else.

    If you think she isnt going to give back the deposit then dont pay the last months rent in lieu of the deposit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    We're planning on leaving anyway, but we've paid our rent and want to at least get the month out of that. We've pretty much accepted she wont give us back our deposit. But we still need a week or two to find someplace else.

    Is there a particular reason why she shouldn't return the deposit? You do not owe her the €600 so she cannot keep it to cover arrears. Take photos of the house when you are leaving in case she tries to keep money for imaginary damages or cleaning that has to be done.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,223 ✭✭✭Michael D Not Higgins


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    If you think she isnt going to give back the deposit then dont pay the last months rent in lieu of the deposit.

    Do not do this, especially with a pending PRTB complaint. If the landlord does not return the deposit, it can be added to the complaint and further bolsters your case. Plenty of cases come out with compensation for the illegal actions of the landlords involved and giving them any chance to show you were playing silly buggers too will weaken your position.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    We're planning on leaving anyway, but we've paid our rent and want to at least get the month out of that. We've pretty much accepted she wont give us back our deposit. But we still need a week or two to find someplace else.

    Stay as long as you need to provided it's safe. Don't feel pressured to leave because she's a lunatic, there is absolutely nothing she can legally do to get you out (within a month at least). She sounds like an idiot alright, and if I were you I'd honestly hang around and let her incriminate herself further. Changing the locks would be the holy grail really, it would take a while for the PRTB to sort it out (they are quite slow) but expect ample recompense when it does come through. Short of that you need to keep your hands clean.

    Have you checked if the house is registered with the PRTB?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 750 ✭✭✭Ashbx


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    lol, really?

    "ahem...there's a mad woman at my door" - only a lie by ommission I guess :P

    Exactly! You said that the guards don't tend to deal with LL and tenant disputes. So when you go to ring them say there is a woman at the door trying to get in and then just drop it in casually "oh its my landlord btw".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,093 ✭✭✭rawn


    jonny24ie wrote: »
    If you think she isnt going to give back the deposit then dont pay the last months rent in lieu of the deposit.

    I would not recommend doing this.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    Cowboys ted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    If it was me I'd have my phone out recording video of her shouting and roaring at the door. She wouldn't have a leg to stand on in any PRTB dispute.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,844 ✭✭✭Snake


    ken wrote: »
    If it was me I'd have my phone out recording video of her shouting and roaring at the door. She wouldn't have a leg to stand on in any PRTB dispute.

    Recording someone without their consent is illegal, so don't do that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I have cctv footage of her shouting and roaring at me from work, which we could use if needs be. I'm so angry tbh at being bullied like this! I think I might call the local station and explain situation and ask what they advise I should do if it happens again. At least that way I am pre-empting and wont risk wasting their time.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,881 ✭✭✭TimeToShine


    GrayFox208 wrote: »
    Recording someone without their consent is illegal, so don't do that.

    Not if it's in a public place or if one of the parties is deemed to be acting as part of their employment - which she is. It just can't be used in court.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Santa Cruz


    hereford wrote: »
    pay what you owe her
    it would be easier in the long term

    If your lease says the rent is as you said she is completely wrong. In any case her behaviour is out of order. There is a correct way to pursue landlord tenant disputes.
    Keep a record of all incidents, report to Gardaí re harassment offence Non Fatal Offences (section 10 I think)and report to the PRTB


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,880 ✭✭✭Hippo


    ^^^
    Exactly. Evicting a tenant legally is actually quite an arduous process for a landlord! Let the PRTB deal with it.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    GrayFox208 wrote: »
    Recording someone without their consent is illegal, so don't do that.

    No it's not


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,089 ✭✭✭✭P. Breathnach


    Her behaviour at your workplace is an issue that merits separate consideration: it might well be construed as defamation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    She just texted me and said she will be over on sunday?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    Now I am really fuucking mad. I hate bullies!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    I'd be waiting for her. When the biatch arrives, tell her to hang on whilst you call the Gards...
    I'd also be telling her the matter's in the hands of the PRTB and Revenue. Let her take THAT to the bank! :D


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    I'd be waiting for her. When the biatch arrives, tell her to hang on whilst you call the Gards...
    I'd also be telling her the matter's in the hands of the PRTB and Revenue. Let her take THAT to the bank! :D


    Just texted her there and said we reg'd complaint with PRTB and told her if she comes around we will call guards, that she cannot recover possession without court order and has no right of entry. Also requested that she familiarise herself with the implications involved if she attempts an illegal eviction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 489 ✭✭the world wonders


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Just reg'd with PRTB now. I told her I would call the guards when she was there and she said they already knew she was there and had given her "the ok" - tf?
    Yeah I bet her brother's a guard as well, and her mother is a solicitor. Standard nonsense.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    Just texted her there and said we reg'd complaint with PRTB and told her if she comes around we will call guards, that she cannot recover possession without court order and has no right of entry. Also requested that she familiarise herself with the implications involved if she attempts an illegal eviction.

    I'd be turning the screw. Tell her you've reported her to Revenue too - whether you have or not!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,468 ✭✭✭✭OldNotWIse


    My Dad said he will go down and wait for her on Sunday. Let's see if she bullies a man as easily as she bullies two girls.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Keep this at the forefront of your mind:

    This is your home. The law gives more protection to your right to your home, then it does your landlord's right to her property.

    If you ever turn up and she has changed the locks, this is illegal forced entry and trespass. It becomes a criminal matter, so you can call the Gardai, force her to give you the keys to the new locks and have her charged if you wish.

    She has no right to enter your home without your permission, full stop. The only exception to this rule is if she believes that the property is at immediate risk (fire, gas leak, etc) and she is unable to contact you for permission. Otherwise, entering the property without consent is criminal trespass.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    GrayFox208 wrote: »
    Recording someone without their consent is illegal, so don't do that.

    No it's not. As long as one party knows.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,805 ✭✭✭GerardKeating


    No it's not. As long as one party knows.

    If the conversation was in a Public place, (i.e. Out on the street) would even that apply. For Example could I (while walking down Main Street) record the conversations of a couple in the street while I walk along side them. Or people sitting next to me in the Bus/Train/Coffee Shop etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    If the conversation was in a Public place, (i.e. Out on the street) would even that apply. For Example could I (while walking down Main Street) record the conversations of a couple in the street while I walk along side them. Or people sitting next to me in the Bus/Train/Coffee Shop etc.

    That may be a problem and it would depend on each case on its facts and what is done with the recording.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,810 ✭✭✭✭jimmii


    The data protection commissioners site says that in domestic situations it is lawful to record household affairs and for the management of their own family which I think this would definitely cover and if its out on the street then they have no reasonable expectation of privacy much like if you go to a gig or something you can't really expect everyone taking pictures to get permission from everyone else there to have them recorded. If your LL knew of the recording and objected then you would have to stop as they could take you to court over that.

    http://www.dataprotection.ie/docs/Data-Protection-CCTV/242.htm

    If you did record them without consent I think it might not be admissible in court if it did come to that. But lets hope it doesn't come to that and they cop on a bit its amazing how unreasonable some LLs think they can be I am a LL and I think its in my best interest to keep the tenant as happy as possible it can be an expensive process to get new tenants.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    It's simple, turn on the camera and say loudly "I am recording this interaction on video" Either the other person then walks away from the situation or they can't say they didn't know later.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 spear_mint


    ken wrote: »
    You are entitled to quite enjoyment. If she turns up again ring the Gardai.

    this is 100% correct , the guards will not care whether a tennant is in arrears with rent ( not saying the OP is ) , that is a civil matter but disturbing the peace is not , a lot of people in this country dont realise that tenants have a lot more power than the received wisdom suggests


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 spear_mint


    OldNotWIse wrote: »
    True enough. I just didn't want to waste police time but if she comes around shouting and screaming again, I guess I wont have a choice. She seems to think she can just take the law into her own hands. I'm nervous every time I go home now as I dont know if she is crazy enough to let herself in, change locks etc.

    people waste the guards time all the time , its people who make a lot of noise to the guards who get the best service from them , they have to reply to a complaint


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 41 spear_mint


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    No it's not

    perhaps but its inadmissable in court


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,737 ✭✭✭Bepolite


    spear_mint wrote: »
    perhaps but its inadmissable in court

    Probably - but may not be. There are still very good reasons to record people acting the maggot.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    A PRTB tribunal* is not a court case. I'd imagine they'd review any evidence presented to them.

    *Is tribunal the right word?.


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