Families that earn €100k are ‘struggling’

mglc021

The finance minister's quote just boiled my blood.
WTF?
I am on mid 30's p/a and somehow I manage to pay my rent, my car tax+insurance, bills and buy food and clothes for my wife (out of work) and baby..


www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-that-earn-euro100k-are-struggling-274293.html

Mr. Incognito

Not really a taxation forum matter- Moved to AH

Nemeses

ugh unclickable links!

for the rest of the lazy ones here like myself

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/families-that-earn-euro100k-are-struggling-274293.html

House of Blaze

Ah the poor wee divils!

Will we get a collection going for them?

ComputerKing

Many families earning this amount are struggling due to the Irish tax system.

He added: “I don’t understand why you are not willing to put extra tax on them rather than continually hitting the lower earners.”

There already is a load of tax on them.
christ

Mr Noonan rejected the proposal, saying it would be a tax on work and therefore against government policy. If a wealth tax was introduced then young people, particularly graduates, “would up and leave”, he said.

“Somebody I know personally is relocating to Perth. She is getting double the money and half the tax. Why wouldn’t you go?” he asked.

Mr Noonan also said the move would “close down the technology industry in Dublin”, claiming workers in the likes of Google, Twitter, and Facebook would relocate. “We have to look at international comparisons, you can’t act like there is a wall around us,” he said. “Ireland has one of the most progressive tax systems in the world and there are no plans to introduce a wealth tax.”

good

SEPT 23 1989

from the description of your situation you dont have serious borrowings

100k is great money if you are not drowning in massive debts

i am sure these people would swap mid 30's with you and have no debt

Celly Smunt

When people hear you're on 100, 000+ they tend to think you're happy out with a huge savings account.

Luckily enough I don't pay tax here due to working for a foreign company, though I would be rather pissed off handing almost half my wage over to an inept government.

When you break it down, those earning 100000 per year probably have an extra 300 over somebody working for 40000 without the enormous stress that comes with having a high paying job.

seamus

I think what's more relevant is his point that a family income of €100k is not in the category of wealthy that would justify imposing a wealth tax on them.

The purpose of a wealth tax is to cream off the top of unused disposable income, not to just lash (even more of) the tax burden onto people who happen to have higher incomes. Plenty of families on €100k will be struggling under their debts in the same way that some families on €30k are not.

Boyd-Barrett's claim that those earning €30k to €40k are the "real people of Ireland" belies his bigoted attitude where being Irish is about playing the poor mouth and anyone who is doing well for themselves is betraying their cultural heritage.

I would give Bertie the passwords to the country's bank accounts again before I'd let Boyd-Barrett near them.

bmwguy

No wealth tax? You must be joking, 52% of everything over €32,800 is taken away to be sucked into the great abyss that is the public expenditure system. There is a wealth tax already there, but it is levied on everyone at or above the average wage. Thats BEFORE property tax, motor tax, VAT, excise duties, water charges soon to come in......I'm glad I am self employed and find other methods of giving myself a lifestyle rather than through a wage alone.

Buzz Killington the third

It's all relative, 100k sounds like a lot but it's not really after taxes, mortgage/rent, crèche fees... Then divide it by 2 people.

Grayson

bluewolf wrote: »

There already is a load of tax on them.
christ



good

bollox. There seems to be an attitude amongst some people that taxing higher earners is evil.

The line directly before the bit you quoted, which you ever so conveniently left out stated

A range of tax bands on high incomes would yield €922m a year, he said, which could ease the burden on the less well-off.

So, that's it is it? Fcuk the poor and the people who earn less that 40k a year.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

I think what's more relevant is his point that a family income of €100k is not in the category of wealthy that would justify imposing a wealth tax on them.
.

It's funny as well that BB mentions the "real people" on 40k, where a family on 100k might well be on 40 and 60. Not much of a gap there
Especially if as mentioned above you have creche fees which are usually equivalent to one person's salary

tenifan

I think one of the meanest things to come out of the property price bust was the government's decision to hike income tax while abolishing TRS at a time interest rates were rising.

I'm in my early 30s and on a decent household wage for a single person (no where near 100k) but have no chance of making even a small dent in my 35 year mortgage (nevermind start a pension) thanks to the tax regime.

I made a decent wage on a year abroad and for the right salary would consider emigrating again if it meant being able to afford a modest pension or the likes of house repairs down the line.

Buzz Killington the third

Grayson wrote: »

bollox. There seems to be an attitude amongst some people that taxing higher earners is evil.

How in the name of god can you classify 2 people earning 100k between them as high earners? Please go ahead and try to justify it...

Heathen

I'd love to **** in my hand and throw it at his fat head!!! Prick!

H

Valetta

tenifan wrote: »

I think one of the meanest things to come out of the property price bust was the government's decision to hike income tax while abolishing TRS at a time interest rates were rising.

I'm in my early 30s and on a decent household wage for a single person (no where near 100k) but have no chance of making even a small dent in my 35 year mortgage (nevermind start a pension) thanks to the tax regime.

I made a decent wage on a year abroad and for the right salary would consider emigrating again if it meant being able to afford a modest pension or the likes of house repairs down the line.

Where was income tax "hiked"?

Menas

A family earning 100k probably see 5k per month after tax/pension. Both parents working.
Bought a house during the boom? 2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

Arbiter of Good Taste

Grayson wrote: »

bollox. There seems to be an attitude amongst some people that taxing higher earners is evil.

Where are high earners not being taxed? 52% of everything over €32,800 sounds like tax to me.

Buzz Killington the third

Trigger Happy wrote: »

2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

You're forgetting food, travel expenses, clothes, and a whole lot more.

seamus

Grayson wrote: »

bollox. There seems to be an attitude amongst some people that taxing higher earners is evil.

And there seems to be an attitude amongst some people that high earners pay no tax. When in fact high earners pay practically all of the tax. "Sure just lump another €1bn in taxes on them there, what are they going to do about it? Leave?"

bluewolf

bluewolf wrote: »

It's funny as well that BB mentions the "real people" on 40k, where a family on 100k might well be on 40 and 60. Not much of a gap there
Especially if as mentioned above you have creche fees which are usually equivalent to one person's salary

Thats the nub of the matter, where are you at in life if a family on a 100k is also paying a mortgage of say 1200 euro a month and crèche fees of say 1000 euro a month then you are not going to be well off its all relative.

On the other had if have 100k a year and have only a modes mortgage and no child-minding fees then you are no doing so bad but hardly rich.

Menas

seamus wrote: »

And there seems to be an attitude amongst some people that high earners pay no tax. When in fact high earners pay practically all of the tax. "Sure just lump another €1bn in taxes on them there, what are they going to do about it? Leave?"

The only thing I would counteract that with is that there are tax relief schemes but the relief is only available on tax paid at the higher rate. Film investment scheme for eg.
But that finishes at the end of this year.

kiffer

Only 14% of households have a gross income of 100k or higher...
Clearly that's not the middle bracket.

Sam Kade

Heathen wrote: »

I'd love to **** in my hand and throw it at his fat head!!! Prick!

H

Well the first part you can do anytime second part might be a bit more difficult

Valetta

Heathen wrote: »

I'd love to **** in my hand and throw it at his fat head!!! Prick!

H

I'm sure he thinks the world of you. :rolleyes:

Davarus Walrus

Deep down, I wonder if spoofers like Boyd Barrett, Joe Higgins and Mick Wallace actually believe what they spout.

flutered

Trigger Happy wrote: »

A family earning 100k probably see 5k per month after tax/pension. Both parents working.
Bought a house during the boom? 2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

what about a couple on disibility, @213 per week for the two, the add the lpt, plus whathever your having yourself, no comparisson is there.

flutered

Davarus Walrus wrote: »

Deep down, I wonder if spoofers like Boyd Barrett, Joe Higgins and Mick Wallace actually believe what they spout.

of course they believe their own lies and spoofs, how else could they stay at it all the time.

Idbatterim

you know I used to think how could anyone on 100k struggle, we had an article or two in the paper about public servant couple struggling on this amount and I thought it was propaganda, it may well have been, but equally it is quite plausible. 100k as a couple is 70k gross, from deloitte income tax calculator, I made it an easy calculation with no pension deduction. With a boom time mortgage and several pay cuts and the cost of living increase, throw in child care etc, I can see how people can be left with nothing if they havent got a deal from the bank on the mortgage or restructured it. Looking at someone and saying they earn X, without looking into anything else is very black and white way of looking at things...

http://www.deloitte.ie/tc/Results.aspx

I could write all day about this and hundreds of pages have been written on it over the past few years, but they income tax system here is seriously beyond a joke, its not about fairness, its about daylight robbery to buy as many votes as possible, from the entitlement brigade, who once they have got their greasy paws on something, dont ever let go...

100k for a single person results in a net income €58.869! Rich or even "well off" LOL!

suicide_circus

seamus wrote: »

And there seems to be an attitude amongst some people that high earners pay no tax. When in fact high earners pay practically all of the tax. "Sure just lump another €1bn in taxes on them there, what are they going to do about it? Leave?"

Many of them wouldn't leave if they got real bang fot their buck in terms of high quality free services. But the extra billion wont create that, it will disappear into the blackhole. Those who can't or won't work will reap the benefits as the sizable lobby industry of charities and NGOs ply their trade

stevedublin

Trigger Happy wrote: »

A family earning 100k probably see 5k per month after tax/pension. Both parents working.
Bought a house during the boom? 2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

You forgot the servants pay.

comongethappy

stevedublin wrote: »

You forgot the servants pay.

Jobs bridge.

Idbatterim

I see on a daily basis here the damage that such high rates are doing to companies, employees and ergo the tax payer...

Menas

flutered wrote: »

what about a couple on disibility, @213 per week for the two, the add the lpt, plus whathever your having yourself, no comparisson is there.

I never said people on disability were not struggling? What I said was that a lot of people on 100k are not wealthy.

dxhound2005

flutered wrote: »

what about a couple on disibility, @213 per week for the two, the add the lpt, plus whathever your having yourself, no comparisson is there.

I can't make the rates here add up to €213 for a couple, either both disabled, or one disabled with an adult dependant. They should be getting a lot more.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/disability_and_illness/disability_allowance.html#l62fd2

They should be getting €376 if they are both disabled.

dissed doc

Trigger Happy wrote: »

A family earning 100k probably see 5k per month after tax/pension. Both parents working.
Bought a house during the boom? 2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

Yes but it's more than me so tax them more! 90%! I won't be happy on the millionaires on 100k are worse off than me. Then I can schadenfreude it all the way to the dole office on my 35k tax free income per year.

TimeToShine

It's a great country to work in for graduates but if you want to progress your career and have your salary reflect that you better look elsewhere.

Is it even worth earning 45k instead of 30k in this country if you take the stress of the higher paying job into account?

dxhound2005

Trigger Happy wrote: »

A family earning 100k probably see 5k per month after tax/pension. Both parents working.
Bought a house during the boom? 2k goes on the mortgage.
2 kids in creche? 1.8k goes on the creche.
Take out 100 for tv/broadband/phone, allow another 200 for electric and gas, another 200 for VHI and you end up with 500 left over.

Yes, its a lot more than some families have to spare, but earning 100k does not mean you are rich.

€1800 a month of earned income on creche fees is €414 a week. Depending on how much each is bringing home of that 5K it could be as well for one of them to give up work and save the creche fees.

Arthur Beesley

Anyone that thinks that a 100k salary in Ireland makes you 'wealthy' really is out of touch with reality.

dxhound2005

If it's a single person with no children or mortgage €100K is a lot. If it is a family with a big mortgage it might be a struggle. They could be worse off in real terms than a pensioner couple getting €460 a week with no mortgage and getting a medical card and free TV licence.

ChicagoJoe

Noonan's salary is around €157,000 - of course he says families on €100,000 or more are struggling !!! Have you lot never heard of " vested interests " ??

ChicagoJoe

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Anyone that thinks that a 100k salary in Ireland makes you 'wealthy' really is out of touch with reality.

Interesting opinion from someone who probably isn't even on the average industrial wage as Ronald McDonald doesn't pay much over minium wage to people like you who serve us our french fries and McShake

steddyeddy

If they are struggling what are families on much lower wages doing? Amazing the same people in favour of property tax, water charges and anything else that affects lower earners disproportionately higher ect seem to think people on 100k are really struggling. A case of self preservation and looking after number one described as economic expertise.

steddyeddy

steddyeddy wrote: »

If they are struggling what are families on much lower wages doing? Amazing the same people in favour of property tax,

Is there anyone in favour of property tax??

Arthur Beesley

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

Interesting opinion from someone who probably isn't even on the average industrial wage as Ronald McDonald doesn't pay much over minium wage to people like you who serve us our french fries and McShake

Yeah, I'm very satisfied with my salary. Thanks for asking.

Buzz Killington the third

bluewolf wrote: »

Is there anyone in favour of property tax??

Noooooooooo you're going to start a bigger war... all the d1ckheads will come out of the woodwork now talking about how 'rich' people should pay up.

ChicagoJoe

Arthur Beesley wrote: »

Yeah, I'm very satisfied with my salary. Thanks for asking.

And don't forget the salt and ketchum while you are at it

Arthur Beesley

ChicagoJoe wrote: »

And don't forget the salt and ketchum while you are at it

:rolleyes: Ironic, given that my salary is probably twice yours.

VinLieger

As stupid as his comments were boyd barrets and other populists suggestion for a wealth tax are equally absurd for the reasons Noonan stated people will simply up and leave as they can pay less tax elsewhere

ChicagoJoe

VinLieger wrote: »

As stupid as his comments were boyd barrets and other populists suggestion for a wealth tax are equally absurd for the reasons Noonan stated people will simply up and leave as they can pay less tax elsewhere

So what, they can up and leave then so and there's plenty of young people better qualified and enthusiastic to take their places and pay the taxes regardless.