Lean gains

KABLOOEY

I'm starting bulking today from a weight of 74kg. Lifts are currently S80, B75, DL115 & P50 for 5*3 (or 5*1 DL). Basically I want to bulk for the majority of the next year so am aware I need to be careful in terms of gains as I'm the type of eater that could end up putting on 15kg+ without restrictions over that time.

Question is what is the optimal strategy for someone looking to gain over the long term? My initial thoughts are weight training 4 times a week on a surplus and hit a deficit for the other 3 and reevaluate every month?

Also in terms of programs what should I be looking at? I definitely want to increase size and strength in tandem rather than focusing on one so I guess the standard 5*5 for the first couple of months with some of the major isolation exercises? I appreciate any feedback!

Blacktie.

I'm guessing this is meant to be 3 sets of 5? People usually post sets first then reps so yours would be 3x5 and 1x5. Though you could be doing 5 sets of 3 too...

Anyway. Goals for strength and size gains is lift heavy often and eat more than you require. Personally I wouldn't recommend leangains for a bulk. Tried it for a while a few years back. It's just too tight a time frame for the amount of food you're trying to get in. Especially if eats mostly clean sources.

EDIT: Right just realised you weren't talking about the leangains intermittent fasting approach! Ignore that part so. A small surplus over your maintenance is what you want to minimise fat gains. I wouldn't do a deficit on your rest days if you're trying to bulk. That's when your muscles need to grow and repair. I'd bulk for 2 or 3 months and evaluate then. Maybe cut for a few weeks if it's gone too far.

generic2012

I agree with Blacktie there. But the leangains website is a great resource. I advise you to read the sections on recomposition and macro cycling or whatever he calls it. Just take in everything but disregard the fasted part. That website gets ignored by non intermittent fasters a lot because it's an IF website but it's got lots of savage info. I do the macro cycling but I don't know if it helps in any unique way, I think he may have links to studies which he claims show benefits but I'm not sure.

Ice Cream Fitness 5x5 could be the best 5x5 for you as it incorporates the 'major isolation exercises' you want.

conzy

If you are interested in lean gains stuff have a look at rippedbody.jp

The most important thing to take away from it is this:



Seen as you are looking at bulking I think lean gains is overly complicated. If you are doing a proper bulk you will struggle to get your clean calories in all day, let alone in an 8 hour window. You can worry about lean gains when you are trying to get to 10% and your weight loss has stalled etc.

You wont get "fat" on a bulk unless you go way overboard and have a ridiculous surplus and turn it into an opportunity to throw all diet adherence and consistency out the window

I bulked for around 20 weeks and gained 10kg and improved all my lifts hugely, I definitely gained body fat but I never got a belly or anything. I looked better than before the bulk.

KABLOOEY

Sorry two mistakes - 3*5 is correct, and I didn't mean to make a connection with the IF bulking program. I'm pretty sure I won't be going down the road of macro-counting. Tried similar before and it bogs me down so I'll stick to having rough idea of foods that will allow me +500 kcals daily and abide by that.

My question is more to do with what Blacktie is getting at with eating surplus on non-training days. Would his approach of say 2-3 month bulk, 3 week cut, 2-3 month bulk be more beneficial than say 40 weeks of 4 days weight training on surplus, 3 days cardio/conditioning on deficit? Also, with Blacktie's example would you recommend conditioning exercises on the "rest" days?

KABLOOEY

conzy wrote: »

You wont get "fat" on a bulk unless you go way overboard and have a ridiculous surplus and turn it into an opportunity to throw all diet adherence and consistency out the window

I bulked for around 20 weeks and gained 10kg and improved all my lifts hugely, I definitely gained body fat but I never got a belly or anything. I looked better than before the bulk.

This is great to hear. I worked very hard the last few months on diet so most of my questionning stems from a fear of undoing that hard work.

generic2012

KABLOOEY wrote: »

My question is more to do with what Blacktie is getting at with eating surplus on non-training days. Would his approach of say 2-3 month bulk, 3 week cut, 2-3 month bulk be more beneficial than say 40 weeks of 4 days weight training on surplus, 3 days cardio/conditioning on deficit? Also, with Blacktie's example would you recommend conditioning exercises on the "rest" days?

Well if you wanted to get pedantic about it, you could say that your calorie expenditure is higher on training days/lower on rest days, so eating daily maintenance+500kcal would be different on training and rest days. I would say eat more on training days than rest days/eat less on rest days than training days. Your lifts look like you haven't been training long (sorry if you have!) so I wouldn't bother with the mini cuts, just a slight surplus until your lift progression slows, then reassess whether all the extra calories are worth it any more. I wouldn't bother with conditioning days on rest days, unless you enjoy whatever conditioning days would entail.

TimeToShine

KABLOOEY wrote: »

Sorry two mistakes - 3*5 is correct, and I didn't mean to make a connection with the IF bulking program. I'm pretty sure I won't be going down the road of macro-counting. Tried similar before and it bogs me down so I'll stick to having rough idea of foods that will allow me +500 kcals daily and abide by that.

My question is more to do with what Blacktie is getting at with eating surplus on non-training days. Would his approach of say 2-3 month bulk, 3 week cut, 2-3 month bulk be more beneficial than say 40 weeks of 4 days weight training on surplus, 3 days cardio/conditioning on deficit? Also, with Blacktie's example would you recommend conditioning exercises on the "rest" days?

The first approach is optimal. If you're going to bulk do it for a few months. Don't do half and half.

On rest days you can stretch to work on your mobility, foam roll, even some cardio would be good for you provided you make sure to eat above what you expend.

conzy

KABLOOEY wrote: »

This is great to hear. I worked very hard the last few months on diet so most of my questionning stems from a fear of undoing that hard work.

I had the same fears. As someone who was overweight and unhealthy I had spent 2 years in a calorie defecit trying to drop scale weight so switching that goal around can be daunting. But once you don't go overboard you will make great size and strength gains.

Some more random tips:

Have a goal / limit / deadline. whether thats 6 months, +10kg or something.

When the times comes to "cut" understand that it will take a long time to lose the fat you gained. 12-16 weeks

I know you said you dont like to track macros / calories but I think you should for the first fortnight. In my experience you will not eat enough if you dont.