General Rugby Discussion

irishbucsfan · 01-09-2016 10:17pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

This is simply a cultural difference. What you see as violent conduct or thuggery, we see as doing your job. That's why we're shocked when one of our players gets done for a cheeky stamp, a sneaky punch, a thumping great tip tackle or shoulder charge. We simply don't understand what the big deal is about a facial between forwards. We can understand a back having a whinge but not a forward.

It doesn't really matter what the Kiwis think about eye-gouging or contact with the eye area. It's completely illegal and everyone else at all other levels constantly gets done for it. Look at what Shane Jennings got 12 weeks suspension for (weird link here), it was nothing in comparison to what Franks did (and Nick Kennedy, the victim, defended him). Alan Quinlan missed a Lions tour for it. It's incredibly frustrating to see someone get off again when the evidence is so obviously clear to everyone (so much so that World Rugby have to make a statement).

Adbrowne · 01-09-2016 10:30pm

There is a pic on rugby onslaught facebook page of Franks with his thumb in Douglas eye and it is shocking image.

Yeah_Right · 01-09-2016 11:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It doesn't really matter what the Kiwis think about eye-gouging or contact with the eye area. It's completely illegal and everyone else at all other levels constantly gets done for it. Look at what Shane Jennings got 12 weeks suspension for (weird link here), it was nothing in comparison to what Franks did (and Nick Kennedy, the victim, defended him). Alan Quinlan missed a Lions tour for it. It's incredibly frustrating to see someone get off again when the evidence is so obviously clear to everyone (so much so that World Rugby have to make a statement).

But sometimes it just an accidental poke in the eye like what Troy Flavell did. Nothing serious. Sorry can't find a good image or link.

irishbucsfan · 01-09-2016 11:35pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

But sometimes it just an accidental poke in the eye like what Troy Flavell did. Nothing serious. Sorry can't find a good image or link.

If you intentionally put your hands near the eye of an opponent it is illegal, even if you poke them in the eye accidentally. That's what the rulings were for both Jennings and Quinlan if I remember correctly. Noone would even try to argue that Franks didn't intentionally grab Douglas. Look at the Jennings video, it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what Franks did.

Yeah_Right · 01-09-2016 11:49pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you intentionally put your hands near the eye of an opponent it is illegal, even if you poke them in the eye accidentally. That's what the rulings were for both Jennings and Quinlan if I remember correctly. Noone would even try to argue that Franks didn't intentionally grab Douglas. Look at the Jennings video, it's absolutely nothing in comparison to what Franks did.

I assume the citing commissioner had some other angles to look at for the Jennings incident because based on that link, it was nothing.

As a kiwi fan, I'm just glad that the ABs finally got one in their favour after years of seeing opposition consistently get away with targeting McCaw. He was assaulted numerous times and citing commissioners did nothing. Swings and roundabouts

sydthebeat · 02-09-2016 8:17am

Ah lads, for every Frank's thumb we have POCs boot, we are not without blame here either.

On the bod incident, I wear it with pride that the kiwis were so scared of BOD on that tour that they were so blatant in taking him out.

swiwi_ · 02-09-2016 10:08am

Teferi wrote: »

Kiwis are the most thin-skinned, saltiest winners in rugby. It's actually unreal. I've been watching the whole saga unfold and their reaction is absolutely bizarre tbh.

My wife reckons I've got a tad portly.

Might have to try the thin-skinned salty look, it sounds trendy.

pickarooney · 02-09-2016 10:22am

Tad Portly sounds like a second rate lawyer from a US sitcom

kuang1 · 02-09-2016 11:34am

CatFromHue wrote: »

I was just surprised at how quick the Kiwi newspapers and Kirwan brought it up when BOD mentioned how poor a decision it was not to cite Franks.

World Rugby vice-chairman Pichot sees 'inconsistency' in Owen Franks non-citing
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83841687/world-rugby-vicechairman-pichot-sees-inconsistency-in-owen-franks-nonciting

Wasn't Pichot recently voted the most influential man in world rugby?
Stay tuned!

Edit:love the part at the very end that said out of 36,000 people who responded to their poll* 60% said Franks should NOT have been cited.

*The poll carried out by stuff.co.nz

wp_rathead · 02-09-2016 11:46am

Bulls v Lions in Currie cup, was looking forward to watching Boshoff but game doesn't seem to be on Sky Sports? Anyone know what channel it on?

irishbucsfan · 02-09-2016 11:49am

kuang1 wrote: »

World Rugby vice-chairman Pichot sees 'inconsistency' in Owen Franks non-citing
http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83841687/world-rugby-vicechairman-pichot-sees-inconsistency-in-owen-franks-nonciting

Wasn't Pichot recently voted the most influential man in world rugby?
Stay tuned!

Edit:love the part at the very end that said out of 36,000 people who responded to their poll* 60% said Franks should NOT have been cited.

*The poll carried out by stuff.co.nz

World Rugby can't do anything. They already released a statement explaining why they can't intervene.

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/186981

The fact they released that statement really tells you everything you need to know.

b.gud · 02-09-2016 11:53am

wp_rathead wrote: »

Bulls v Lions in Currie cup, was looking forward to watching Boshoff but game doesn't seem to be on Sky Sports? Anyone know what channel it on?

If you happen to be in Asia, you could use http://www.rugbypass.com/ they have legal streaming rights to it. It's a subscription service but they offer a 1 month free trial. Obviously this is only helpful if your computer is "in" Asia. I have no idea how it would get there

TICKLE_ME_ELMO · 02-09-2016 11:57am

For me the Franks thing is odd in that I thought the citing officer was there to flag up incidents that might have a case to answer. It's the job of the people at the hearing is then to decide whether someone is guilty or not.

As people have pointed out, by the letter of the law, fingers making contact with eye area is a no no. Surely it should have been cited and then the people at the hearing could say yes, it was deliberate and deserves punishment, or, no, having looked at all the angles it was accidental and we won't be taking any further actions.

Same goes for Douglas, I think it was, having his hands in someone's eyes in the same match.

irishbucsfan · 02-09-2016 12:00pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

For me the Franks thing is odd in that I thought the citing officer was there to flag up incidents that might have a case to answer. It's the job of the people at the hearing is then to decide whether someone is guilty or not.

As people have pointed out, by the letter of the law, fingers making contact with eye area is a no no. Surely it should have been cited and then the people at the hearing could say yes, it was deliberate and deserves punishment, or, no, having looked at all the angles it was accidental and we won't be taking any further actions.

Same goes for Douglas, I think it was, having his hands in someone's eyes in the same match.

Yes, that's exactly it.

https://twitter.com/chjones9/status/771663728051752964

At least Pichot seems to be bringing some sanity to the situation. Hopefully WR can put some pressure on SANZAR to sort out the process. The fact a lot of people in NZ are now being led to believe that what Franks did is OK is completely unacceptable. It seems to come at a particularly important time given the return of Ian McKinley to our shores.

kuang1 · 02-09-2016 12:25pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

World Rugby can't do anything. They already released a statement explaining why they can't intervene.

http://www.worldrugby.org/news/186981

The fact they released that statement really tells you everything you need to know.

I'm sorry maybe what I said was misleading. The Franks incident can't and won't be revisited, I think everyone on earth knows that.

But I imagine there's plenty of fallout still to come as a consequence of no citing for him.
And Pichot certainly seems like a man of action!

molloyjh · 02-09-2016 12:33pm

TICKLE_ME_ELMO wrote: »

Same goes for Douglas, I think it was, having his hands in someone's eyes in the same match.

It's worth noting this bit as it hasn't gotten the same level of attention. Both incidents should have been cited and it's incredibly disappointing that neither were. Missing one is bad enough. Missing two is worse. This clearly isn't a NZ thing, it's a SANZAR thing.

swiwi_ · 02-09-2016 2:16pm

b.gud wrote: »

If you happen to be in Asia, you could use http://www.rugbypass.com/ they have legal streaming rights to it. It's a subscription service but they offer a 1 month free trial. Obviously this is only helpful if your computer is "in" Asia. I have no idea how it would get there

Hmmm. Thanks. The Sky Sports Mobile TV app has sucked recently, so I might have to move to Asia. Prices seem similar too.

swiwi_ · 02-09-2016 2:17pm

molloyjh wrote: »

It's worth noting this bit as it hasn't gotten the same level of attention. Both incidents should have been cited and it's incredibly disappointing that neither were. Missing one is bad enough. Missing two is worse. This clearly isn't a NZ thing, it's a SANZAR thing.

Head in the sanzar, as they say.

b.gud · 02-09-2016 2:34pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Hmmm. Thanks. The Sky Sports Mobile TV app has sucked recently, so I might have to move to Asia. Prices seem similar too.

Only problem with that is you won't be able to get your Pro12 fix, if you move to America though you can watch the Pro12 on http://www.therugbychannel.tv/

Yeah_Right · 02-09-2016 3:03pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yes, that's exactly it.

https://twitter.com/chjones9/status/771663728051752964

At least Pichot seems to be bringing some sanity to the situation. Hopefully WR can put some pressure on SANZAR to sort out the process. The fact a lot of people in NZ are now being led to believe that what Franks did is OK is completely unacceptable. It seems to come at a particularly important time given the return of Ian McKinley to our shores.

No kiwi I know thinks what Franks did was ok. They all think he was bloody lucky. Most of what I've read and heard from the NZ media is the same. Please don't quote morons on Twitter to try to prove me wrong.

Also it's hardly just SANZAR. 6 Nations has this issue as well. Mike Brown.

irishbucsfan · 02-09-2016 3:28pm

London Welsh are facing a winding up order in the High Court next week. Players weren't paid and they're on their last legs.

It's almost as if those RFU rules blocking clubs from promotion from the Championship was in place for a reason...

molloyjh · 02-09-2016 3:50pm

swiwi_ wrote: »

Head in the sanzar, as they say.

I see what you did there. Very clever. :cool:

Yeah_Right wrote: »

No kiwi I know thinks what Franks did was ok. They all think he was bloody lucky. Most of what I've read and heard from the NZ media is the same. Please don't quote morons on Twitter to try to prove me wrong.

Also it's hardly just SANZAR. 6 Nations has this issue as well. Mike Brown.

In fairness add to those 2 issues in the Bledisloe games all the issues in the Argentina-SA game (Mahojes numerous high tackles in particular) and it wasn't a good weekend for SANZAR really. There will always be issues here and there in every competition. But it seems there was a lot of, shall we say, tolerance afforded during the RC last weekend. And a lot of it involved illegal acts in and around the head area.

irishbucsfan · 02-09-2016 3:58pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

No kiwi I know thinks what Franks did was ok. They all think he was bloody lucky. Most of what I've read and heard from the NZ media is the same. Please don't quote morons on Twitter to try to prove me wrong.

Also it's hardly just SANZAR. 6 Nations has this issue as well. Mike Brown.

It's funny because we've just seen an ex-Kiwi accuse O'Driscoll of hating the entire country just because he disagreed with the decision!

It's obviously struck quite a nerve with a lot of Kiwis and not just those on Twitter

Yeah_Right · 02-09-2016 4:02pm

irishbucsfan wrote: »

It's funny because we've just seen an ex-Kiwi accuse O'Driscoll of hating the entire country just because he disagreed with the decision!

It's obviously struck quite a nerve with a lot of Kiwis and not just those on Twitter

Do you mean JK? If so, I thought he was having a crack at BOD due to his deleted tweet where he slags off NZ not the original tweet about Franks.

kuang1 · 02-09-2016 4:22pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Do you mean JK? If so, I thought he was having a crack at BOD due to his deleted tweet where he slags off NZ not the original tweet about Franks.

What about the people polled here:
http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83841687/world-rugby-vicechairman-pichot-sees-inconsistency-in-owen-franks-nonciting

wrote:

A poll on Stuff which attracted 36,000 votes found 60 per cent of people felt Franks should not have been cited.

Many of those New Zealanders I wonder?

icdg · 02-09-2016 4:44pm

wp_rathead wrote: »

Bulls v Lions in Currie cup, was looking forward to watching Boshoff but game doesn't seem to be on Sky Sports? Anyone know what channel it on?

It is indeed on Sky Sports 2 at 17:55.

FACECUTTR · 02-09-2016 5:24pm

Aussies looking to add a Fijian team to the NRL. Would be fantastic opportunity.

Yeah_Right · 02-09-2016 5:58pm

kuang1 wrote: »

What about the people polled here:
http://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/83841687/world-rugby-vicechairman-pichot-sees-inconsistency-in-owen-franks-nonciting

Many of those New Zealanders I wonder?

Probably like me. For once we get one our way. Every other country gets away without being cited especially against the ABs so we finally got one in our favour.

Also, I said kiwis I know. I don't claim to to know all kiwis. Do you know Patrick from Dublin?

irishbucsfan · 02-09-2016 6:03pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Do you know Patrick from Dublin?

Yes. Although he lives in a posh city now and goes under the name Podge.

b.gud · 02-09-2016 7:47pm

b.gud wrote: »

Only problem with that is you won't be able to get your Pro12 fix, if you move to America though you can watch the Pro12 on http://www.therugbychannel.tv/

Looks like I might have been wrong rugby pass does have some Pro12 games

https://twitter.com/rugby_pass/status/771777266250416128?s=09

General Rugby Discussion

Comments