Letting agent requesting bank statements

Red Alert

I was at a public viewing in Dublin today and got a brochure from the letting agent stating what was required for a lease. One thing that was mentioned was Bank statements covering the last 3 months. Is this the done thing in Dublin? I've never seen this requirement before.

athtrasna

It's becoming the done thing. There is a shortage of rental properties in parts of Dublin, landlords have their pick of tenants. They want to choose the tenants most likely to pay rent and not trash the property, bank statements help determine that.

nj78

This is getting nuts, a friend of mine who was looking for a new rental recently in Dublin mentioned this too.
How is that even legal? I could accept looking for a proof of income from your employer, like with mortgage applications, but bank statements..... thats very personal, what exactly are they looking for?

matrim

Red Alert wrote: »

I was at a public viewing in Dublin today and got a brochure from the letting agent stating what was required for a lease. One thing that was mentioned was Bank statements covering the last 3 months. Is this the done thing in Dublin? I've never seen this requirement before.

After looking at 20 odd places over the last couple of months this was only requested once. It happens but from my experience it's rare.

When it happened to me I told the agent that I wasn't interested because of that requirement and she said fine they had other interested parties

Snake

Just black out your A/C number and S/C iban and bic too. It's not a huge deal to want to know you have enough income to cover rent each month or week.

Grandpa Hassan

I have no problem with an agent seeing 3 months of bank statements. What do people think they are going to do with them? Take your account details and steal all your money? I don't understand people's sensitivity about this.

Snake

nj78 wrote: »

This is getting nuts, a friend of mine who was looking for a new rental recently in Dublin mentioned this too.
How is that even legal? I could accept looking for a proof of income from your employer, like with mortgage applications, but bank statements..... thats very personal, what exactly are they looking for?

Proof of income. Just mark out the bank details and any transactions apart from current rent outgoing and salary incoming that's what they want. Proof you have a stable income and monthly/weekly rent payment. References aren't good enough anymore since you can get a friend to write one for you

ToxicPaddy

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Just black out your A/C number and S/C iban and bic too. It's not a huge deal to want to know you have enough income to cover rent each month or week.

I did this with all transactions also blacked out just showing my income lodgement. So they basically got a photocopy of a sheet with lots of blacked out lines and my name, address, account no and salary lodgement.

matrim

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

I have no problem with an agent seeing 3 months of bank statements. What do people think they are going to do with them? Take your account details and steal all your money? I don't understand people's sensitivity about this.

What's their data protection policy for that info?

Plus it puts you in an automatic disadvantage if you are trying to negotiate rent

Mrs OBumble

matrim wrote: »

What's their data protection policy for that info?

Plus it puts you in an automatic disadvantage if you are trying to negotiate rent

In the current market, the only negotiation you're going to be doing is trying to outbid other prospective tenants. Being able to prove that you can afford what you say you can is no disadvantage.

murphaph

I said several months ago that this is something we'd see become commonplace. It's not yet commonplace but it's becoming so as time goes on. That's what happens when the state corners private landlords. They have to start taking the initiative wrt protecting their assets.

matrim

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In the current market, the only negotiation you're going to be doing is trying to outbid other prospective tenants. Being able to prove that you can afford what you say you can is no disadvantage.

Not true, it's harder now but if you've got good references and come across well it's possible.

I've just taken a place on Dublin city centre where we got 75 of the advertised price. We were also offered another place with 50 off.

nj78

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In the current market, the only negotiation you're going to be doing is trying to outbid other prospective tenants.

That is being very trusting of the integrity of the estate agent. I've dealt with a lot of them over the past 6 months, and am very sorry to say my personal experience is that it is a profession very much lacking this. Obviously, there are rare exceptions but I've learned not to trust any of them. Phantom bidding doesn't just happen with sales

Greenmachine

matrim wrote: »

Not true, it's harder now but if you've got good references and come across well it's possible.

I've just taken a place on Dublin city centre where we got 75 of the advertised price. We were also offered another place with 50 off.

Maybe the landlord had just pushed the price up 200 notes on account of the rent increases in the city and found interest in the property fell.

Santa Cruz

Greenmachine wrote: »

Maybe the landlord had just pushed the price up 200 notes on account of the rent increases in the city and found interest in the property fell.

You are right there. I have seen a number of lettings where the landlord/letting agent raised the rent because they read all about the rise in rents in Dublin. The result was that the properties were not taken as quickly as normal, the landlord got edgy and the rent went down again.
Greed does that to people.
If people think that letting agents are demanding more documentation etc. here try renting in London and see what they demand.

makeorbrake

nj78 wrote: »

Phantom bidding doesn't just happen with sales

The same approach applies. You offer what you are happy to part with. If it goes beyond what it is worth to you, move on and look elsewhere.

matrim wrote:

Plus it puts you in an automatic disadvantage if you are trying to negotiate rent

See above. If anything, it may improve your position - as if the property is more than affordable for the prospective tenant, perhaps the landlord would be keen-er to secure that tenant over any other...

matrim wrote:

What's their data protection policy for that info?

If you are not happy with providing same, then simply don't - move on to someone who doesn't ask for this. However, 2 things on that;
1. If you are providing a largely redacted copy of a bank statement, what precious information are you giving away - other than a demonstration (or otherwise) of your ability to pay?
2. It's as plain as night and day as to the rationale behind this - and why this will become the norm going forward.

Santa Cruz wrote:

If people think that letting agents are demanding more documentation etc. here try renting in London and see what they demand.

Exactly - and that's the way it will go here eventually.

Santa Cruz wrote:

Greed does that to people.

It's not a question of greed. After all, this is supposed to be a business so like any other product or service, the price is what the market will bear, no more, no less - simples.

Red Alert

So if you were redacting the statement, what would be left in: assuming rent out, income in. Would you leave the running balances there?

makeorbrake

Red Alert wrote: »

So if you were redacting the statement, what would be left in: assuming rent out, income in. Would you leave the running balances there?

Redact the account number and transaction descriptions (the LL doesn't have any interest in what you spend your $ on or where you derive any further income from). Leave the running balances. The objective is to determine affordability.

Snake

Santa Cruz wrote: »

You are right there. I have seen a number of lettings where the landlord/letting agent raised the rent because they read all about the rise in rents in Dublin. The result was that the properties were not taken as quickly as normal, the landlord got edgy and the rent went down again.
Greed does that to people.
If people think that letting agents are demanding more documentation etc. here try renting in London and see what they demand.

Isn't that illegal? I thought you weren't allowed charge over market rate?

Grandpa Hassan

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Isn't that illegal? I thought you weren't allowed charge over market rate?

Market rate isn't a precise thing. If demand > supply, then the market rate will rise by LLs increasing their rent to a level that the market supports. And if a LL thinks his property is better than the average in the area then he might charge more than the supposed average in the area

the world wonders

GrayFox208 wrote: »

Isn't that illegal? I thought you weren't allowed charge over market rate?

You are not allowed increase the rent above market rate for an existing tenant. You can ask for any price you want when letting the property out to a new tenant.

Greenmachine

Santa Cruz wrote: »

You are right there. I have seen a number of lettings where the landlord/letting agent raised the rent because they read all about the rise in rents in Dublin. The result was that the properties were not taken as quickly as normal, the landlord got edgy and the rent went down again.
Greed does that to people.
If people think that letting agents are demanding more documentation etc. here try renting in London and see what they demand.

Had to provide all the stuff when I started my current rental which I was okay with. What is weird for me is when a prospective employer want to dig into your financial status.

pointelle

I know someone who used to let apartments and he maintains it's illegal. They can ask you to set up a standing order to ensure monthly payment

Snake

pointelle wrote: »

I know someone who used to let apartments and he maintains it's illegal. They can ask you to set up a standing order to ensure monthly payment

Well if you don't have the money to pay in the first place a standing order insures nothing?

murphaph

pointelle wrote: »

I know someone who used to let apartments and he maintains it's illegal.

Is he a lawyer? If not, I wouldn't pay too much heed to what he says about the finer points of law.

sunnysoutheast

Bear in mind that when "redacting" sensitive information if you use a black marker over the printing and then scan the document on decent equipment it is very possible that you will be able to read the "blanked" information very clearly!!!

Something that surprised me anyway. Better to photocopy the statement and cut out the a/c details.

Yes UK rentals are bank statements, employer and rental references, and six or eight weeks' deposit. Plus two weeks' rent +VAT for the agent, a £25+VAT fee for registering the deposit and £100 or so +VAT for the inventory clerk to draw up the schedule of condition.

Not happy with that? Move on, plenty in the queue.

Frank Lee Midere

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Bear in mind that when "redacting" sensitive information if you use a black marker over the printing and then scan the document on decent equipment it is very possible that you will be able to read the "blanked" information very clearly!!!

Something that surprised me anyway. Better to photocopy the statement and cut out the a/c details.

Yes UK rentals are bank statements, employer and rental references, and six or eight weeks' deposit. Plus two weeks' rent +VAT for the agent, a £25+VAT fee for registering the deposit and £100 or so +VAT for the inventory clerk to draw up the schedule of condition.

Not happy with that? Move on, plenty in the queue.

For now. Until as always with over heated markets there is nobody in the queue.

Anyway you can print out statements in some ATM type machines which show the last 3 months end month balance. That's all they should need.

Snake

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

For now. Until as always with over heated markets there is nobody in the queue.

Anyway you can print out statements in some ATM type machines which show the last 3 months end month balance. That's all they should need.

The statement printer in the banks. They also have A/C no

makeorbrake

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

For now. Until as always with over heated markets there is nobody in the queue.

If it becomes the norm (and unless the PRTB suddenly becomes so much more effective and expedites)then, it needs to be come the norm - it may not matter what state the market is in.


I'm familiar with at least one landlord currently leaving properties empty due to the litany of problems he's been having - and those properties are in provincial backwaters. He also has a few UK properties - and confirmed the above - i.e. the expectation is that the tenant supply ALL of the info someone above has mentioned. With that, he has had NO issue whatsoever with UK rentals - over 25+ years.

The_Conductor

sunnysoutheast wrote: »

Bear in mind that when "redacting" sensitive information if you use a black marker over the printing and then scan the document on decent equipment it is very possible that you will be able to read the "blanked" information very clearly!!!

Something that surprised me anyway. Better to photocopy the statement and cut out the a/c details.

Yes UK rentals are bank statements, employer and rental references, and six or eight weeks' deposit. Plus two weeks' rent +VAT for the agent, a £25+VAT fee for registering the deposit and £100 or so +VAT for the inventory clerk to draw up the schedule of condition.

Not happy with that? Move on, plenty in the queue.

I redact documents regularly.
Step 1- photocopy the original document- and file it.
Step 2- Redact the photocopy. We have wide black markers specifically for redacting.
Step 3- Photocopy the redacted document- and shred the first redaction.
Step 4- Repeat Step 3
Step 5- You now have a photocopy of a photocopy of a redacted document.

Depending on how sensitive you deem the information- lower the resolution on the copier to 50-60%- but keep in mind, the salient information has to be legible at the end of all of this.

Shred all intermediate steps immediately.

Grandpa Hassan

Frank Lee Midere wrote: »

For now. Until as always with over heated markets there is nobody in the queue.

.

That will always be the standard in the UK. Heated market or not. There might be some tweaking of the agents fees in times of stiff competition, but the 6-8 week deposit, the bank, work and rental references, the inventory clerk fees are here to stay in the UK.

the difference is that you get something for that. independent inventory clerks who take a photograohic record and give you a copy of their report, deposit protection etc (though you would never get your 6-8 week deposit back before having to put a 6-8 week deposit down on a new place).

If you don't like it, then you just rent somewhere privately off the internet. But then you're in the wild west, and there's no point complaining....no comeback....if someone keeps your deposit

I wish it was like that in ireland

Lemming

Grandpa Hassan wrote: »

That will always be the standard in the UK. Heated market or not. There might be some tweaking of the agents fees in times of stiff competition, but the 6-8 week deposit, the bank, work and rental references, the inventory clerk fees are here to stay in the UK.

the difference is that you get something for that. independent inventory clerks who take a photograohic record and give you a copy of their report, deposit protection etc (though you would never get your 6-8 week deposit back before having to put a 6-8 week deposit down on a new place).

If you don't like it, then you just rent somewhere privately off the internet. But then you're in the wild west, and there's no point complaining....no comeback....if someone keeps your deposit

I wish it was like that in ireland

It should also be pointed out that in the UK (or at least my experience to date); it's not the landlord or EA that you are handing your financial details over to; it's a third party firm specializing in checks, from whom you will receive a full copy of their report. So the EA/Landlord never sees the intimate details; all they get is the same report you get with a "yay/nay, confirm xyz".

makeorbrake

Lemming wrote: »

It should also be pointed out that in the UK (or at least my experience to date); it's not the landlord or EA that you are handing your financial details over to; it's a third party firm specializing in checks, from whom you will receive a full copy of their report. So the EA/Landlord never sees the intimate details; all they get is the same report you get with a "yay/nay, confirm xyz".

I don't think any landlord would have any issue using such a service if it existed. However, in its absence, you still don't have to give away sensitive financials - so long as you redact the bank statement.

Lemming

makeorbrake wrote: »

I don't think any landlord would have any issue using such a service if it existed. However, in its absence, you still don't have to give away sensitive financials - so long as you redact the bank statement.

Well such companies earn their crust on data, so they would (or should at any rate) be keeping an eye to data protection & retention laws; unlike some EA whose notion of data protection is chucking a newspaper on top of your details. Such companies aren't also in the position to dicate terms like an EA or landlord looking for some extra cash might do, making them a far more acceptable prospect for people to deal with regards their personal information.

I'm just surprised that such a service does not exist in Ireland; but given how utterly grabastically, f*cktardedly backwards & dysfunctional the Irish housing market is I really shouldn't be surprised.

makeorbrake

Lemming wrote: »

Such companies aren't also in the position to dicate terms like an EA or landlord looking for some extra cash might do, making them a far more acceptable prospect for people to deal with regards their personal information.

I'm not quite sure specifically what you are referring to here. However, it takes two to tango. If a potential tenant isn't happy with any aspect of the proposed tenancy, they should either say so, walk or both.

Fkall

Lemming wrote: »

It should also be pointed out that in the UK (or at least my experience to date); it's not the landlord or EA that you are handing your financial details over to; it's a third party firm specializing in checks, from whom you will receive a full copy of their report. So the EA/Landlord never sees the intimate details; all they get is the same report you get with a "yay/nay, confirm xyz".

No, the landlord receives copies of all information provided.

After all the EA is his agent afterall

Lemming

makeorbrake wrote: »

I'm not quite sure specifically what you are referring to here. However, it takes two to tango. If a potential tenant isn't happy with any aspect of the proposed tenancy, they should either say so, walk or both.

My point is that such services are divorced from the landlord and EA other than being engaged to check that Joe Bloggs meets the minimum criteria they've been given. That means far less room for potential abuse of a tenant's information by cowboy LLs and/or EAs.

Fkall wrote: »

No, the landlord receives copies of all information provided.

After all the EA is his agent afterall

Are you saying that a third party service (in the UK) passes the entirety of what is personal data which they have asked the tenant over to another third party? Because what I've just said has nothing to do with the EA other than them engaging a data-verification/check service and informing you that you will be contacted by xyz regards such a service as requirement for signing a lease.

makeorbrake

Lemming wrote: »

My point is that such services are divorced from the landlord and EA other than being engaged to check that Joe Bloggs meets the minimum criteria they've been given. That means far less room for potential abuse of a tenant's information by cowboy LLs and/or EAs.

There was no misunderstanding of your point. My point is - in the absence of such a service - redacting bank statements protects a prospective tenants financial data.

Fkall

Lemming wrote: »

My point is that such services are divorced from the landlord and EA other than being engaged to check that Joe Bloggs meets the minimum criteria they've been given. That means far less room for potential abuse of a tenant's information by cowboy LLs and/or EAs.



Are you saying that a third party service (in the UK) passes the entirety of what is personal data which they have asked the tenant over to another third party? Because what I've just said has nothing to do with the EA other than them engaging a data-verification/check service and informing you that you will be contacted by xyz regards such a service as requirement for signing a lease.

The EA is the LL agent and not a third party. He collects the information on behalf of the LL.

Lemming

Fkall wrote: »

The EA is the LL agent and not a third party. He collects the information on behalf of the LL.

I don't think we're talking about the same thing here so I'm going to walk away from this particular discussion.

Victor

nj78 wrote: »

what exactly are they looking for?

Your name.

Your current address.

That you have a bank account, for at least 3 months.

That you run transactions through it.

That you are solvent.

That you can pay the rent.

That you seem to have a job.

What benefits you are receiving.

Do you have a gambling / alcohol habit?