Is it worth modernising an extensive suckler enterprise?

GrandSoftDay

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

just do it

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

If you put figures through a profit monitor you'll probably find you're cost per cow will sky rocket and for the extra workload and investment you'll make less profit. That's my tuppence worth.

Doing up the house is a separate preposition. Are you doing it to a. live in, b. rent, c. sell, or d. just doing it for sentimental reasons?

How about another option. Buy now acres.

larrymiller

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Is there grants for sheds now? Tought they were gone?

moy83

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

I think ye would have the most profitable system as sucklers go at the minute and by building a shed for wintering you will only be paying too much to carry more , you mightnt end up with anymore in your arse pocket at the end of the year after it .
Could you rent a shed for a winter or two first to see how it goes ?
Or is it possible to sow kale or something to help feed a few extra heads if thats what you wanted .
At the minute I think investing in beef will be just diluting your profit

GrandSoftDay

larrymiller wrote: »

Is there grants for sheds now? Tought they were gone?

Supposedly coming back next year.

mayota

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

I think if you could manage it at all get a shed up. While it might not look the best decision financially it will give you more options stock wise. Out wintering down your way could be banned at the stroke of an EU pen at some stage too.

Sam Kade

mayota wrote: »

I think if you could manage it at all get a shed up. While it might not look the best decision financially it will give you more options stock wise. Out wintering down your way could be banned at the stroke of an EU pen at some stage too.

I thought that you have to have the required slurry storage whether you out winter or not.

GrandSoftDay

moy83 wrote: »

I think ye would have the most profitable system as sucklers go at the minute and by building a shed for wintering you will only be paying too much to carry more , you mightnt end up with anymore in your arse pocket at the end of the year after it .
Could you rent a shed for a winter or two first to see how it goes ?
Or is it possible to sow kale or something to help feed a few extra heads if thats what you wanted .
At the minute I think investing in beef will be just diluting your profit

Ah there's very few sheds around here Moy and I can't see any being rented in the near future. I thought about Kale alright but we don't winter anything on the summer grazing and with the amount of rain we get here I'm not sure how effective it would be.

GrandSoftDay

mayota wrote: »

I think if you could manage it at all get a shed up. While it might not look the best decision financially it will give you more options stock wise. Out wintering down your way could be banned at the stroke of an EU pen at some stage too.

It won't be banned around here anyway..Tis actually encouraged I'm trying to justify it in my head for the same reasons you said, gives me a lot more options and flexibility down the road but to be honest it doesn't make any financial sense at the moment.

Nekarsulm

Unless you are farming a great sandy or gravelly land, do you not think a shed would be a great convenience for you and comfort for the cows?

GrandSoftDay

Sam Kade wrote: »

I thought that you have to have the required slurry storage whether you out winter or not.

Only if your over a certain stocking rate.

mayota

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Only if your over a certain stocking rate.

Gets out calculator.

Sam Kade

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Only if your over a certain stocking rate.

1 cow/h but don't you need to leave them over all the farm during the winter?

GrandSoftDay

Nekarsulm wrote: »

Unless you are farming a great sandy or gravelly land, do you not think a shed would be a great convenience for you and comfort for the cows?

There is nothing wintered on summer grazing. Where they are is as dry as a cork, no poaching what so ever. I have no intention of putting up a shed to keep the same amount of cattle, it would only make sense if I was keeping another 20 cows and the convenience of having it.

GrandSoftDay

Sam Kade wrote: »

1 cow/h but don't you need to leave them over all the farm during the winter?

There's 116ha so I don't think that will ever be surpassed. Have a couple of different winterages they are scattered around. Before someone tells me that's an awful low stocking rate it's not the Golden Vale around here.

larrymiller

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

There's 116ha so I don't think that will ever be surpassed. Have a couple of different winterages they are scattered around. Before someone tells me that's an awful low stocking rate it's not the Golden Vale around here.

You have 45 cows on 116 ha???

GrandSoftDay

larrymiller wrote: »

You have 45 cows on 116 ha???

There's half of it like this though, I said it wasn't the golden vale

larrymiller

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

There's half of it like this though, I said it wasn't the golden vale

Ah fair enough

blue5000

OP it's a tough call, I guess you'd be breaking a lot of rock for a tank. Would over ground tank and scraper work out cheaper. Have you dug any test pits where you are thinking about putting the tank?

Don't forget 20 extra cows will cost you too, either in reduced sales of heifers if you keep your own or cash if you buy in.

Can you get the numbers up before the shed?

just do it

What about working backwards. How much utilisable grass (kgDM grazing grass and silage) can you produce? Based on that how many cows could you keep?

The way I look upon farms like yours is the summer grazing is your farm size and the winterage is your shed. I'm jealous to be honest. Want to switch?!

Farmer Pudsey

How much winterage and how much summer grazing have you. I be slow building a shed with that type of land. Your winterage is your limiting factor. Stocked at a cow/HA how many can you carry.

If you are producing a good type of weanling I be trying to sell all as weanlings, why keep for another 9-12 months for 3-400 euro. If you can stock more cows on winterage, I would maximise my summer grazing by reseeding or renting more ground.

The only advantage I see for a shed if if you had lighter weanlings that you wanted to hold over the winter, I know that they would do better outside but at 0.6 of a LU 5 weanlings is equivlent to 3 cows.

On that type of land they discourage round feeders so you do not need to make to much silage. As you have no slurry and are using little bag fertlizer I imagine that your summer grazing land may be low in P&K and in ph. I be inclined to soil test and see the story

GrandSoftDay

blue5000 wrote: »

OP it's a tough call, I guess you'd be breaking a lot of rock for a tank. Would over ground tank and scraper work out cheaper. Have you dug any test pits where you are thinking about putting the tank?

Don't forget 20 extra cows will cost you too, either in reduced sales of heifers if you keep your own or cash if you buy in.

Can you get the numbers up before the shed?

There is no rock where I would build blue so it would be fairly straight forward in that regard. Naturally there is the problem of reduced income of keeping on heifers that would otherwise be for sale and increased inputs like fert, meal, slurry and silage. I don't really have a place to winter any more without ploughing summer land which I'm not going to do, we are restricted where we can feed silage here so not much I can do. If we weren't there would be no need for a shed!

caseman

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

This might be entitled to a thread of its own but not sure of a title so I'll stick it here. At the moment we have 45 sucklers, sell about half as weanlings and half as year and a half's. Our system is about as far from intensive as you could imagine. Everything out wintered, only spread a pallet of Fert a year and use about 100 bales along with 7-8 ton of meal. My dilemma is we could carry a lot more stock if we had a place to witer them and spread more fert. The auld fella is going retiring at the start of next year and I'll be eligible for any top ups going for young farmers. A 4 bay slatted shed would give me great flexibility but looking at the state of the beef sector at the moment I'm finding it hard to justify the expense (even with 60% grant) along with upping the stock. Seems like it will be more work and expense for no extra return pushing things at the minute. Have a second old house here that 40-50k would do an awful lot of work with and I'd love to tear into it but don't want to look back in a few years saying why didn't I put up a shed when the grants were there. What would you do if you were in my shoes?

Can't see how figures ever added up to build slatted accomadation for sucklers.
Alot of fancy shed's put up around here over the last few years ,but paid for with of farm income.

GrandSoftDay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

How much winterage and how much summer grazing have you. I be slow building a shed with that type of land. Your winterage is your limiting factor. Stocked at a cow/HA how many can you carry.

If you are producing a good type of weanling I be trying to sell all as weanlings, why keep for another 9-12 months for 3-400 euro. If you can stock more cows on winterage, I would maximise my summer grazing by reseeding or renting more ground.

The only advantage I see for a shed if if you had lighter weanlings that you wanted to hold over the winter, I know that they would do better outside but at 0.6 of a LU 5 weanlings is equivlent to 3 cows.

On that type of land they discourage round feeders so you do not need to make to much silage. As you have no slurry and are using little bag fertlizer I imagine that your summer grazing land may be low in P&K and in ph. I be inclined to soil test and see the story

Have about 70 mowable acres, another 40 that is alright for grazing but not improveable and the rest is winterage. Would graze most of the winterage once during the summer too. I'd imagine too that the ground is lacking in p&k and lime. Have only being spreading a pallet to have some early grass for cows after calving. Keeping half of them to year and a halfs for cash flow more than anything else and we have had a few cases of Tb over the years. It takes some of the risk out of being restricted. Don't feed much silage to cows at all apart from a few that might be getting poor over the winter and the yearlings. The winterage is stocked to the hilt and that's my limiting factor. Have plenty of summer ground for them.

GrandSoftDay

just do it wrote: »

What about working backwards. How much utilisable grass (kgDM grazing grass and silage) can you produce? Based on that how many cows could you keep?

The way I look upon farms like yours is the summer grazing is your farm size and the winterage is your shed. I'm jealous to be honest. Want to switch?!

Haven't gone down the road of measuring yet jd but have oceans of grass at the minute . Have 70 acres that hasn't seen a beast since the end of last October and no fert got. Would have no problem keeping 60+ but my ''shed'' is too small. The auld fella used the have 55 cows and finish all bullocks when I was a nipper with a small bit less land than we have at the moment.

Farmer Pudsey

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Have about 70 mowable acres, another 40 that is alright for grazing but not improveable and the rest is winterage. Would graze most of the winterage once during the summer too. I'd imagine too that the ground is lacking in p&k and lime. Have only being spreading a pallet to have some early grass for cows after calving. Keeping half of them to year and a halfs for cash flow more than anything else and we have had a few cases of Tb over the years. It takes some of the risk out of being restricted. Don't feed much silage to cows at all apart from a few that might be getting poor over the winter and the yearlings. The winterage is stocked to the hilt and that's my limiting factor. Have plenty of summer ground for them.

You have 110 acres of summer land that is 44 HA. That means that winterage is 72 HA. In theory that would allow you to carry 70 cows on it. Are you limited by an envoirmental scheme. I be trying to have my herd test in the spring, I know that this means that you have to TB test some weanlings presale but the advantage is that with TB tests it is older cattle in general that are more likly to fail test. Loads of farmers are penny wise pound foolish on this one.

From the sound of it the winterage is stocked at 1LU to 1.25HA. Also if you had a small shed and removed weanlings that would allow 13 more cows in theory. From the sound of it you have loads of summer land. A shed could improve O/P but there still seems room on the winterage in theory

rushvalley

I'd say do up the house. you're still young so you should be able to continue operating the way you currently are. Then maybe as you get older and less able (or just sick of it ) you could put up a shed to have a bit of comfort during the winter.

Best of luck with whichever you choose.

GrandSoftDay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

You have 110 acres of summer land that is 44 HA. That means that winterage is 72 HA. In theory that would allow you to carry 70 cows on it. Are you limited by an envoirmental scheme. I be trying to have my herd test in the spring, I know that this means that you have to TB test some weanlings presale but the advantage is that with TB tests it is older cattle in general that are more likly to fail test. Loads of farmers are penny wise pound foolish on this one.

From the sound of it the winterage is stocked at 1LU to 1.25HA. Also if you had a small shed and removed weanlings that would allow 13 more cows in theory. From the sound of it you have loads of summer land. A shed could improve O/P but there still seems room on the winterage in theory

It just won't feed any more and I'm limited to a few parts where I can feed silage at a certain stocking rate through Reps and BFCP. Can feed nuts on winterage alright but they aren't much good when the place is skint. Not too keen on running cows near calving up a crush, has brought it's own set of problems in the past but it's a good point nonetheless.

GrandSoftDay

rushvalley wrote: »

I'd say do up the house. you're still young so you should be able to continue operating the way you currently are. Then maybe as you get older and less able (or just sick of it ) you could put up a shed to have a bit of comfort during the winter.

Best of luck with whichever you choose.

Nobody thought of the house I actually think you might be right. Could do up the house over a few years without any need for loans and it wouldn't be costing me anything after. Hard to justify putting anything into beef at the moment but I don't want to miss the boat on the grant for sheds if it comes in as promised again. I'd rather do the house first though.

blue5000

Is finishing your own cattle an option. Mightn't always be as bad as it is now.

Muckit

Put a roof over the stockman before you think about putting a roof over cattle would be my advice, grant or no grant!!

You won't get any woman to move into a slatted shed!!!

rushvalley

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Nobody thought of the house I actually think you might be right. Could do up the house over a few years without any need for loans and it wouldn't be costing me anything after. Hard to justify putting anything into beef at the moment but I don't want to miss the boat on the grant for sheds if it comes in as promised again. I'd rather do the house first though.

I'd rather have a roof over my head before worrying about a roof for the cows

moy83

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Nobody thought of the house I actually think you might be right. Could do up the house over a few years without any need for loans and it wouldn't be costing me anything after. Hard to justify putting anything into beef at the moment but I don't want to miss the boat on the grant for sheds if it comes in as promised again. I'd rather do the house first though.

I wouldn't be worried too much about the grants , when all is said and done you might be able to put one up without grant spec almost as cheap again sometime and with less headaches aswell .

If you can do up a house on the income you have over the next few years it will be a bigger help in the future than a slatted shed , whether you rent it out or move in with a bird . Its a big help to have your nest feathered without loans going forward .

There is a fella down your neck of the woods renting sheds up in Kilcolgan for the winter , I dont know him but I've seen his cows . He has a good skelp of cows

Miname

in the middle of putting up a slatted shed here for sucklers. A 4 bay lean too type with creep area and crush. i had a budget of 23k but will over-run by just under an extra 2k. its not a huge investment that for you could add an extra 30 sucklers to your herd. it could easily be spent on a car without a lot of people batting an eyelid. you have a serious base to work off and id be utilising that to the max if i were you. About the house: you never know maybe herself has a nice spot.

GrandSoftDay

moy83 wrote: »

I wouldn't be worried too much about the grants , when all is said and done you might be able to put one up without grant spec almost as cheap again sometime and with less headaches aswell .

If you can do up a house on the income you have over the next few years it will be a bigger help in the future than a slatted shed , whether you rent it out or move in with a bird . Its a big help to have your nest feathered without loans going forward .

There is a fella down your neck of the woods renting sheds up in Kilcolgan for the winter , I dont know him but I've seen his cows . He has a good skelp of cows

JB his initials? He only lives 2 miles away from. Has a thousand acres of a winterage. Renting a big farm in there.

GrandSoftDay

Miname wrote: »

in the middle of putting up a slatted shed here for sucklers. A 4 bay lean too type with creep area and crush. i had a budget of 23k but will over-run by just under an extra 2k. its not a huge investment that for you could add an extra 30 sucklers to your herd. it could easily be spent on a car without a lot of people batting an eyelid. you have a serious base to work off and id be utilising that to the max if i were you. About the house: you never know maybe herself has a nice spot.

Herself only has her shoes coming with her I'm afraid! Would have thought from reading up on it you would have been talking around the 40k mark for a shed like that, did you do a lot of the work yourself?

Miname

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

Herself only has her shoes coming with her I'm afraid! Would have thought from reading up on it you would have been talking around the 40k mark for a shed like that, did you do a lot of the work yourself?

concrete for tank, lyeback floor and apron and back walls 5400.
slats 4 bays plus 2 galvanised mixing points 3800.
shed with sliding doors to lye back sheeted to 6' and 8' overhang 7500
barriers,gates and drinkers 2800
steel for tank 1600
digging and backfilling 900.
shuttering and concreting, part contractor part myself 2700.
i'll be standing the shed and fitting barriers myself and have done a share of concreting and shuttering as well.
I havent allowed anything for electrical here so id say that will throw another few quid onto my budget

moy83

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

JB his initials? He only lives 2 miles away from. Has a thousand acres of a winterage. Renting a big farm in there.

I don't know the fella at all but I did a house for the lad that owns the sheds and land . Its right at the crossroads there . He has fine big cows !

Viewtodiefor

Wouldn't worry about grata as said here you could do a nice shed for cheaper than a grant one if you do you homework and can do a bit yourself. Thing is once you start spending its hard to stop! Also things may change on the beef sector very fast going forward prices may improve! Also while its not great at the moment it is a lot better than it was a few years ago when prices were struggling to break 3euro kg. low cost has a lot going for it don't know it! Just because you have more doesnt mean you'll have more in the pocket.

Farmer Pudsey

The only other thing to look at is if you have to change your system down the road will this a shed help you with the change. For instance if another more profitable system came along. I always see that it is the lads that improve there setup a bit through expansion that survive. Improving there setup is not necessary a shed it could be reseeding, paddocking etc etc.

You are limited by the winterage it seems. To all those who say you will build it as cheap without a grant, that may not be true if a grant comes in. If you get 60% as a young farmer there is no way you will build cheaper especially if you have your homework done.

If you had a shed would it allow you to out winter 60 cows and still keep half the weanling's. As you said your father used to finish all the progeny years ago. The big issue if you go building a shed is what size you go for. If you were only going to expand to 60 cows and keep half the progeny then a two bay would be adequate. However a four bay would only cost 50% more.

If a 60% grant happens and you are cagey after grant a 4 bay shed to grant spec ( which will be to a higher standard that anything you build non grant) may only cost you 16-18K if that. It may be years before you get the chance again. A 6 bay may only cost another 4-6K after grant.

The things that cost money in sheds are bells and whistles. The important thing in a shed is the tank and the steel uprights. I see lads getting caught up in slats, barriers and the new concrete sheeting but as long as the structure is sound everything else can be replaced.

The other factor have you a job as well, this may allow you to write off some shed depreciation against income tax. Even at the low rate it could bring cost of 4 bay shed to 12-14K

It sound like you could do some of the work yourself such as laying any feed passages and maybe doing side walls. You also may be able to put up the barriers etc. I would not worry too much about the nest for the bird, as you said 50K would sort out the house. It seems a lot but if you borrowed as mortgage money it will cost you 310/month over 20 years. I see lads paying more for tractors ( I know that they would only be over 5-7 years) and as much for cars.

MayoSalmon

Miname wrote: »

concrete for tank, lyeback floor and apron and back walls 5400.
slats 4 bays plus 2 galvanised mixing points 3800.
shed with sliding doors to lye back sheeted to 6' and 8' overhang 7500
barriers,gates and drinkers 2800
steel for tank 1600
digging and backfilling 900.
shuttering and concreting, part contractor part myself 2700.
i'll be standing the shed and fitting barriers myself and have done a share of concreting and shuttering as well.
I havent allowed anything for electrical here so id say that will throw another few quid onto my budget

How much would it cost to build a straw-bedded shed?

I am presuming the rest of the shed spec would stay with the exculsion of the tank and slats?

Neddyusa

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

There's half of it like this though, I said it wasn't the golden vale

That right there in the photo GSD is the best value "slatted shed" in the country!
Having been involved in researching profitability in beef farming the "extensive" system you describe actually fits the profile of the most efficient type of suckler system, low input, moderate output, low capital costs and low stocking rate....see here: http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/iagrm/ijam/2013/00000002/00000004/art00005

The county which repeatedly came out on top in terms of income efficiency for suckler farms was Co Clare..
The main reason was that suckler farmers in Clare tend to have less money spent on a building quite common on beef farms in other parts of the country....guess what type of building that is?!

GrandSoftDay

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The only other thing to look at is if you have to change your system down the road will this a shed help you with the change. For instance if another more profitable system came along. I always see that it is the lads that improve there setup a bit through expansion that survive. Improving there setup is not necessary a shed it could be reseeding, paddocking etc etc.

You are limited by the winterage it seems. To all those who say you will build it as cheap without a grant, that may not be true if a grant comes in. If you get 60% as a young farmer there is no way you will build cheaper especially if you have your homework done.

If you had a shed would it allow you to out winter 60 cows and still keep half the weanling's. As you said your father used to finish all the progeny years ago. The big issue if you go building a shed is what size you go for. If you were only going to expand to 60 cows and keep half the progeny then a two bay would be adequate. However a four bay would only cost 50% more.

If a 60% grant happens and you are cagey after grant a 4 bay shed to grant spec ( which will be to a higher standard that anything you build non grant) may only cost you 16-18K if that. It may be years before you get the chance again. A 6 bay may only cost another 4-6K after grant.

The things that cost money in sheds are bells and whistles. The important thing in a shed is the tank and the steel uprights. I see lads getting caught up in slats, barriers and the new concrete sheeting but as long as the structure is sound everything else can be replaced.

The other factor have you a job as well, this may allow you to write off some shed depreciation against income tax. Even at the low rate it could bring cost of 4 bay shed to 12-14K

It sound like you could do some of the work yourself such as laying any feed passages and maybe doing side walls. You also may be able to put up the barriers etc. I would not worry too much about the nest for the bird, as you said 50K would sort out the house. It seems a lot but if you borrowed as mortgage money it will cost you 310/month over 20 years. I see lads paying more for tractors ( I know that they would only be over 5-7 years) and as much for cars.

No full time job outside of it Pudsey. I can't winter any more cattle outside than what we have at the moment. Can't feed silage on most parts of the winterage being in BFCP and where I can is stocked to the hilt for the winter. As it is the winterages are skint by the end of Feb and I have to supplement with meal so keeping any more out is a non runner. BFCP is worth 10k so don't want to lose out on that either!

Farmer Pudsey

GrandSoftDay wrote: »

No full time job outside of it Pudsey. I can't winter any more cattle outside than what we have at the moment. Can't feed silage on most parts of the winterage being in BFCP and where I can is stocked to the hilt for the winter. As it is the winterages are skint by the end of Feb and I have to supplement with meal so keeping any more out is a non runner. BFCP is worth 10k so don't want to lose out on that either!

The decision then is do you think taht expanding your enterprise will pay. If the grant comes out next year and is set at 60% for you a 4 bay shed with a 20-25' runback. would be 18K net of grant.

What will this allow you to do. As you said earlier you have motre summer grazing that you need. You could opt to finish you stock using time by overwintering on silage alone. Your summmer land soulds as if it is quite dry so early turn out and a short winter will allow you to finish cattlee off grass

The real advantage of a shed may be down the line if carcasse weight is forced to decline you could change over to a HE/AA suckler system and finish these cattle off grass.

larrymiller

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

The decision then is do you think taht expanding your enterprise will pay. If the grant comes out next year and is set at 60% for you a 4 bay shed with a 20-25' runback. would be 18K net of grant.

What will this allow you to do. As you said earlier you have motre summer grazing that you need. You could opt to finish you stock using time by overwintering on silage alone. Your summmer land soulds as if it is quite dry so early turn out and a short winter will allow you to finish cattlee off grass

The real advantage of a shed may be down the line if carcasse weight is forced to decline you could change over to a HE/AA suckler system and finish these cattle off grass.

Is there any word on the grant or when will there be news?

ferryman35

I just wonder have you considered organics?

Given that you already have to comply with special environmental requirements, it might not be all that much of a stretch, especially if you can handle the paperwork. You'd still be able to get up to 60% for your shed ( straw bedded though not slatted).

With a straw bedded shed, you can build a shed in a way that's easily extendable in a year or two's time - so you don't have to put yourself under pressure with a big upfront investment - get there in stages rather than trying to take one long step?

You'd get a premium price for your product which would go some way towards compensating you for the capacity limitations you have to work within, and the per-hectare scheme would be a nice top up so long as you're not excluded by virtue of the other scheme you're in.

just do it

Any chance neighbouring winterage might come up for sale?

just do it

Out of interest what's considered to be the ideal ratio of summer to winter grazing? I'll take a guess of 1 ha winterage for 1ac summer grazing!

MayoSalmon

ferryman35 wrote: »

I just wonder have you considered organics?

Given that you already have to comply with special environmental requirements, it might not be all that much of a stretch, especially if you can handle the paperwork. You'd still be able to get up to 60% for your shed ( straw bedded though not slatted).

With a straw bedded shed, you can build a shed in a way that's easily extendable in a year or two's time - so you don't have to put yourself under pressure with a big upfront investment - get there in stages rather than trying to take one long step?

You'd get a premium price for your product which would go some way towards compensating you for the capacity limitations you have to work within, and the per-hectare scheme would be a nice top up so long as you're not excluded by virtue of the other scheme you're in.

What type of cost you be looking at here?

I know Organic can have some mad specifications that may prove costly, Any ideas?

blue5000

ferryman35 wrote: »

I just wonder have you considered organics?

Given that you already have to comply with special environmental requirements, it might not be all that much of a stretch, especially if you can handle the paperwork. You'd still be able to get up to 60% for your shed ( straw bedded though not slatted).

With a straw bedded shed, you can build a shed in a way that's easily extendable in a year or two's time - so you don't have to put yourself under pressure with a big upfront investment - get there in stages rather than trying to take one long step?

You'd get a premium price for your product which would go some way towards compensating you for the capacity limitations you have to work within, and the per-hectare scheme would be a nice top up so long as you're not excluded by virtue of the other scheme you're in.

How much of a premium is there for organic beef?

tanko

blue5000 wrote: »

How much of a premium is there for organic beef?

I think its usually about €1/kg more than the standard beef price.