contractor cost per acre of making wagon silage??

farm14

Anyone an idea of what it costs a contractor per acre to make silage with a wagon. Also what does it cost for self propelled per acre & double chop.

epfff

farm14 wrote: »

Anyone an idea of what it costs a contractor per acre to make silage with a wagon. Also what does it cost for self propelled per acre & double chop.

Selfpropelled 110 here
Wagon 85 allegedly will know for sure next week as 25 better in my pocket

milkprofit

110 inc vat self propel
waggon only 50e

rs8

its the cost for the contractor he asking? i would say 35 - 45 euro an acre for wagon given mowing,raking,wagon and pit

Timmaay

milkprofit wrote: »

110 inc vat self propel
waggon only 50e

Who has a wagon around here for that price? Pm me on his details please!

simx

milkprofit wrote: »

110 inc vat self propel
waggon only 50e

50e around here if ya mow and push up yourself, 90e otherwise

pajero12

90 to mow pick and push up here

visatorro

Mow, tedd, rake, into pit wit two wagons, 85 an acre plus vat.

stop thelights

Pit here is 130 inc vat. Thinking of switching to wagon next year mow myself and push up as well myself for 70 inc vat!

Dead or cheap??

farm14

I'm on about now the cost of what it would be for the contractors to make it not the price he charges. I agree with the posts. Im thinking of getting into a wagon setup next year either get contractor in with a wagon & id mow & put up or else buy a wagon myself. I just want to know what would it cost per acre to make the silage diesel usage maintenance costs etc. If anyone knew it would be great thanks

frazzledhome

farm14 wrote: »

I'm on about now the cost of what it would be for the contractors to make it not the price he charges. I agree with the posts. Im thinking of getting into a wagon setup next year either get contractor in with a wagon & id mow & put up or else buy a wagon myself. I just want to know what would it cost per acre to make the silage diesel usage maintenance costs etc. If anyone knew it would be great thanks

Fag box calc, sh decent wagon 30k. Finance over 5 yrs if you can @€;20/k is €600/mth. That's an annual cost of €7,200. 100 acres is €72/acre in repayments. Now you need grunt up front, you need to mow it and pit it and after all that a new wagon in 5 yrs because unless you're handy with a spanner she'll start to cost money

Now what are your thoughts on getting a wagon?

rs8

your better off just mowing it yourself, saving 20-25 acre. lads do be on about pushing it up themselves but has enough power 2 keep away from a big wagon? or even two and do a good job. leave it to the lads i think.

frazzledhome

rs8 wrote: »

your better off just mowing it yourself, saving 20-25 acre. lads do be on about pushing it up themselves but has enough power 2 keep away from a big wagon? or even two and do a good job. leave it to the lads i think.

Your right, it takes a bit of determination and a good loader driver to keep silage away from two wagons

fastrac

You can be sure they will horse it in to the lad pushing it up himself.

rs8

fastrac wrote: »

You can be sure they will horse it in to the lad pushing it up himself.

correct to teach him a lesson to give the full job to him next year

Damo810

frazzledhome wrote: »

Fag box calc, sh decent wagon 30k. Finance over 5 yrs if you can @€;20/k is €600/mth. That's an annual cost of €7,200. 100 acres is €72/acre in repayments. Now you need grunt up front, you need to mow it and pit it and after all that a new wagon in 5 yrs because unless you're handy with a spanner she'll start to cost money

Now what are your thoughts on getting a wagon?

How many lads in this country would have to spend 30K on a wagon? Surely a lad on medium acreage could get one for less? Theres plenty of smaller wagons about.

td5man

Damo810 wrote: »

How many lads in this country would have to spend 30K on a wagon? Surely a lad on medium acreage could get one for less? Theres plenty of smaller wagons about.

Krone turbo wagon here cost €1100 no repairs this year, €68 spent on mower repairs.
€15-20/acre in the pit, picked up 23 acres a day.

rs8

td5man wrote: »

Krone turbo wagon here cost €1100 no repairs this year, €68 spent on mower repairs.
€15-20/acre in the pit, picked up 23 acres a day.

light crop?

frazzledhome

Damo810 wrote: »

How many lads in this country would have to spend 30K on a wagon? Surely a lad on medium acreage could get one for less? Theres plenty of smaller wagons about.

I priced a 5yo Strautman Vitesse this year and all this price. Yes smaller or older ones are cheaper but you need to count your own time and diesel

BTW I was using 100 acres as an example. As Td said 23 acres a day with a smaller one, grand to spend 4 days at it if you have time.

frazzledhome

fastrac wrote: »

You can be sure they will horse it in to the lad pushing it up himself.

And drop back the knives for an odd load!!!

keep going

fastrac wrote: »

You can be sure they will horse it in to the lad pushing it up himself.

Not a problem, on 5 loads every 2 hrs we did 18 acres one day and 20 another in 8 hours good heavy stuff and the chop lenght shouldn't be a problem either.will admit that the last day went in from the top

stanflt

had a potty on demo this week-did 6 acres an hour on a 4mile round trip
grass was extremely dry and it carried 18.5ton of grass

bit pricey at 80k plus vodka

td5man

rs8 wrote: »

light crop?

Reasonably heavy crop farm is all in one block picking up four loads/hour.

C4d78

Wagon 105 here Inc.

Damo810

frazzledhome wrote: »

I priced a 5yo Strautman Vitesse this year and all this price. Yes smaller or older ones are cheaper but you need to count your own time and diesel

BTW I was using 100 acres as an example. As Td said 23 acres a day with a smaller one, grand to spend 4 days at it if you have time.

http://www.donedeal.ie/silageharvesters-for-sale/claas-silage-wagon/7117140

If you got that for €22500 it leaves it at €45 the acre (excluding interest) over 5 years (which it should last hell of a lot longer given it's only doing 100 acres annually).

That seems to be around half the price of what contractors are charging, of course you have to factor in diesel and I would think time would be the limiting factor for most lads but €4500 a year is substantial if your only spending 3 days or so at it.


It's going to depend on the circumstances of each farmer though, the money may be better spent elsewhere if time is a limiting factor or they don't have a capable tractor to power the machine. Mowers and buckrakes have to be factored in too although most farms entertaining the idea of a wagon at 20K+ would generally be ok in 2/3 of those aspects.

rs8

stanflt wrote: »

had a potty on demo this week-did 6 acres an hour on a 4mile round trip
grass was extremely dry and it carried 18.5ton of grass

bit pricey at 80k plus vodka

what cubic metre?

farm14

I was thinking of buying a strautman super vitesse we cut 150 acres of silage of our own & would do hire work if I got wagon

frazzledhome

farm14 wrote: »

I was thinking of buying a strautman super vitesse we cut 150 acres of silage of our own & would do hire work if I got wagon

Have you gotten a price?

Lambofdave

farm14 wrote: »

I was thinking of buying a strautman super vitesse we cut 150 acres of silage of our own & would do hire work if I got wagon

Considering the amount of people already doing silage what would be the point of buying a wagon? Do you have all the other machinery you need to do silage?
Are you already contracting? I wouldn't be buying a wagon based on making it pay by doing hire work to justify it for doing your own work.

rs8

in fairness local wagon lad here is charging €100 and getting it, so 150 acre x €100 equals 15000 euro a year. if you got one or two nice jobs you could get your own silage done cheap and when you want it

stop thelights

rs8 wrote: »

in fairness local wagon lad here is charging €100 and getting it, so 150 acre x €100 equals 15000 euro a year. if you got one or two nice jobs you could get your own silage done cheap and when you want it

I don't really know why people want the pressure of doing the whole job the first year out. Build up slowing would be my 2p worth. Just mow it yourself and push it up the first year or two and see where the ground lies then. Your going to have to hire some one in to drive the wagon milk cows so you might not save all that much by having your own wagon. Different story if there's two labour units on farm already and if the draw is a mile or less of a draw!

farm14

frazzledhome wrote: »

Have you gotten a price?

Not yet am going to go to though.

farm14

Lambofdave wrote: »

Considering the amount of people already doing silage what would be the point of buying a wagon? Do you have all the other machinery you need to do silage?
Are you already contracting? I wouldn't be buying a wagon based on making it pay by doing hire work to justify it for doing your own work.

Majority of people don't make their silage as it wouldn't pay them too due to small acreage. No I don't do contracting but I have my own mower & a loader well capable of putting it up. Didn't say I'd be doing hire work to make it pay but i might be interested in making it for others. Wagon is a simple enough setup & uses less diesel than any other silage setup. Currently pay a contractor €110/acre with a self propelled & i think it's too expensive.

frazzledhome

farm14 wrote: »

Not yet am going to go to though.

5yo €25-28k

sandydan

would be wary if buying secondhand ,some models had problems moving floors while loading and others gave shaft trouble.besides on long draws load settling caused problems for a lot of contractors and were disposed of when problems could be no longer tolerated. pit silage is cheaper than bales though, for cutting ,baling and placing bales in yard it cost me€16.50 / bale.

farm14

Bales are shocking dear tbh. Well I would use a contractor with a wagon. It is cheaper than the self propelled anyways. I'd like to know though what sort of diesel they use up per acre

Lambofdave

farm14 wrote: »

Currently pay a contractor €110/acre with a self propelled & i think it's too expensive.

For the €110 what does the contractor do ?

The best I can find dates back to 2004
http://www.teagasc.ie/advisory/farm_management/farm_machinery/silage/HillsboroughSummaryPaper.pdf

st1979

Where are you lads going with your calculations of buy wagon for x and divide by 5 and thats your cost divided by the acres. Does it not have a resale value at the end. If you look at a new wagon (vitesse 2) and what an 08 sells for it will lose about 4k per year. I have a old one i bought 7 years ago and it will sell for not much less than i paid for it might lose 2-3k and repair bill average 1500 year. But even me a tight arse can see a new one would not cost me much more. Due to no repairs

Now I am not saying its a good idea to buy one or not. But its typical crap calculations to prove a point that you believe is right.
Was talking to baler man and his 2012 baler is a very sought after baler and dealer offered him a deal of 5k to change to new baler. His baler cost 40k list price. He pays on 5 year finance should he cost it at 16 over the last 2 years or what it cost to change.

sandydan

st1979 wrote: »

Where are you lads going with your calculations of buy wagon for x and divide by 5 and thats your cost divided by the acres. Does it not have a resale value at the end. If you look at a new wagon (vitesse 2) and what an 08 sells for it will lose about 4k per year. I have a old one i bought 7 years ago and it will sell for not much less than i paid for it might lose 2-3k and repair bill average 1500 year. But even me a tight arse can see a new one would not cost me much more. Due to no repairs

Now I am not saying its a good idea to buy one or not. But its typical crap calculations to prove a point that you believe is right.
Was talking to baler man and his 2012 baler is a very sought after baler and dealer offered him a deal of 5k to change to new baler. His baler cost 40k list price. He pays on 5 year finance should he cost it at 16 over the last 2 years or what it cost to change.

basically your point is year 1-5 is the expensive ,after that ongoing replacement is not as costly,due to trade value ,be wary of write off depreciation calculations though, you might get caught if machine completely written off for tax purposes and still have higher resale value,ideally change sooner.
was going to suggest buying baler in lieu of wagon but if your layout suits pit silage that may scupper that. a neighbour bought baler in lieu of harvester and says bale making is not as expensive as getting in contractors.and cuts his effluent requirements,3 years on he is considering trading or selling private due to reasonable replacement cost, his is chopper baler only, wrapper extra,draws bales before wrapping on conacre away from home

sandydan

farm14 wrote: »

Bales are shocking dear tbh. Well I would use a contractor with a wagon. It is cheaper than the self propelled anyways. I'd like to know though what sort of diesel they use up per acre

around here the difference is only €15 between wagon and harvester. id settle for mower and get rest contracted . my acreage is small so in years like 2013 pit men opted for once off baling and baler men ran to them and my silage quality suffered as result. so im buying a mower just wonder what is best to combine with topping seem to advised to go kuhn 8' so far in "What Mower" thread and i don't want that subject brought into this thread.its separate issue
and anyway this is far more interesting and serious:)

barryoc1

farm14 wrote: »

Bales are shocking dear tbh. Well I would use a contractor with a wagon. It is cheaper than the self propelled anyways. I'd like to know though what sort of diesel they use up per acre

Pulling a Pottinger Torro 5100 with a Fendt 818. Diesel consumption varies greatly depending on the weight of the grass. With fresh crops before the dry spell it would take about 250 litres of diesel to bring in 40 acres of silage in a day. In the really hot weather crops were really dry and light. Easier to fill a load and easier to pull. Used about 200 litres for 40 acres.

sandydan

barryoc1 wrote: »

Pulling a Pottinger Torro 5100 with a Fendt 818. Diesel consumption varies greatly depending on the weight of the grass. With fresh crops before the dry spell it would take about 250 litres of diesel to bring in 40 acres of silage in a day. In the really hot weather crops were really dry and light. Easier to fill a load and easier to pull. Used about 200 litres for 40 acres.

5-6 lt/acre,that's very economic fuel consumption. had a MF188, would burn 15lt/acre on single chop .had ford 5000 with 66 engine burning 20 litres/acre in wet grass on single chop 15 years ago before i went to contractor for silage cutting.wonder what would self propelled consumption per acre be like.

farm14

sandydan wrote: »

basically your point is year 1-5 is the expensive ,after that ongoing replacement is not as costly,due to trade value ,be wary of write off depreciation calculations though, you might get caught if machine completely written off for tax purposes and still have higher resale value,ideally change sooner.
was going to suggest buying baler in lieu of wagon but if your layout suits pit silage that may scupper that. a neighbour bought baler in lieu of harvester and says bale making is not as expensive as getting in contractors.and cuts his effluent requirements,3 years on he is considering trading or selling private due to reasonable replacement cost, his is chopper baler only, wrapper extra,draws bales before wrapping on conacre away from home

I wouldn't do bales anyway their a very expensive way of making silage even with your own machinery. Again you add up your growing costs they are too dear. If I had to buy a baler id need a wrapper aswell & that's the more cost & then something to stack them. Their a slow way of making silage too compared to pit.

sandydan

point taken,
his point was too much cost to purchase hp needed to drive wagon and new loader, cost in pit and his slurry capacity was under pressure ,planning permission and cost of building tanks etc that's what swayed him.

kencoo

if you were a contractor why would you opt to buy a self propelled over a wagon? surely it would cost way more plus the extra lad to drive it?

st1979

sandydan wrote: »

basically your point is year 1-5 is the expensive ,after that ongoing replacement is not as costly,due to trade value ,be wary of write off depreciation calculations though, you might get caught if machine completely written off for tax purposes and still have higher resale value,ideally change sooner.
was going to suggest buying baler in lieu of wagon but if your layout suits pit silage that may scupper that. a neighbour bought baler in lieu of harvester and says bale making is not as expensive as getting in contractors.and cuts his effluent requirements,3 years on he is considering trading or selling private due to reasonable replacement cost, his is chopper baler only, wrapper extra,draws bales before wrapping on conacre away from home

actually my point was a lot of comments were putting the whole cost of machine divided by 5 years which makes everything too expensive on paper. The cost is machine purchase price less sale price when done with it. And actually if i had the money a new one is actually better value than some of the secondhand wagons due to relatively low depreciation and relatively low repair bill due to simplicity

farm14

sandydan wrote: »

point taken,
his point was too much cost to purchase hp needed to drive wagon and new loader, cost in pit and his slurry capacity was under pressure ,planning permission and cost of building tanks etc that's what swayed him.

The larger wagon giga vitesse only needs 130hp & the super vitesse only need top end 4 cylinder tractors. They have the lowest hp demand than any other silage system. Wouldn't be that big of an investment for that sort of hp

frazzledhome

farm14 wrote: »

The larger wagon giga vitesse only needs 130hp & the super vitesse only need top end 4 cylinder tractors. They have the lowest hp demand than any other silage system. Wouldn't be that big of an investment for that sort of hp

Is that what the salesman told you? Needs loads of grunt. 3/4 fill no bother it takes savage power to fill last 1/4. Sorry that's for giga a lot less for super

Gigs 150+

frazzledhome

st1979 wrote: »

actually my point was a lot of comments were putting the whole cost of machine divided by 5 years which makes everything too expensive on paper. The cost is machine purchase price less sale price when done with it. And actually if i had the money a new one is actually better value than some of the secondhand wagons due to relatively low depreciation and relatively low repair bill due to simplicity

I was the one who mentioned 5 yrs as a way of costing your money. Regardless of how much you get for it as a trade, the money your allowed by the dealer is yours and you've invested in the machine.

rs8

i would have taught krone wagons would have been easier driven. but you need all the power you can get plus 50k for long draw. when a decent wagon is full it will weight alot

st1979

Drove new type krone r50 think it was bit harder driven than super vitesse. Not much harder but was a bit. Very nice wagon though and well built. Just a bit small.

All power needed to pack at the end with all wagons. contractor had giga2 with 240hp on its knees. But was long draw and reckoned was 20 ton of grass in load