Soccer Forum Moderation tonight

Lovely Bloke

I'd just like to provide some feedback on what I see as over-zealous moderation on the Soccer Forum.

Tonight in the World Cup, Uruguay and Liverpool Luis Suarez player bit an Italian player. It is the third time in his career that he has done such an act. He bit a player while he was playing in Holland, and the season before last he bit a Chelsea player during a match.

This third incident is a major talking point, and absolutely deserves it's own thread.

A thread was indeed created, however the mod has deemed it correct to lock it, simply because of the wording used in the thread title. The exact wording is explicitly against charter, and can lead to cards and bans - however why has the mod not just changed the wording here?

The moderator is a Liverpool fan, and I feel this is directly influencing his decision making process here.

Ken.

But the mod linked directly to the charter thats been in place since Sept. 2012.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=80997682&postcount=8

Updates to charter as a result of forum feedback. These will be kept here and also implemented into the charter in the relevant sections.

Anybody that starts a " Are Manager X & Team Y Done " will receive a 2 week ban, these threads are nothing but baiting and serve no other purpose than to wind up fans of whatever team they are aimed at.

Lovely Bloke

I know it's in the charter, but that thread is not baiting or a wind up, this is a player who has bitten other players, not one, not twice, but three times. It absolutely should be discussed on the soccer forum, if the mod is that put out by the thread title, then perhaps he should change it rather than shut down discussion completely, which just so happens to be about a player who plays for the club he supports.

It smacks of protectionism imo.

Dozen Wicked Words

I wonder if op had just started the thread with different wording. Shame it was locked as it absolutely is a valid topic, whether it upsets fans or not. Rest of the world is discussing it, but not the soccer forum on boards. Seems draconian.

Soft Falling Rain

Dozen Wicked Words wrote: »

I wonder if op had just started the thread with different wording. Shame it was locked as it absolutely is a valid topic, whether it upsets fans or not. Rest of the world is discussing it, but not the soccer forum on boards. Seems draconian.

It is being discussed in two threads already on the forum.

Lovely Bloke

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

It is being discussed in two threads already on the forum.

yes, the match thread and the Liverpool thread.

The "discussion" in the Liverpool thread is nothing but Liverpool fans derailing discussion of their lovable rogue. The Liverpool fans are doing their damndest to get the subject shut down, and the Liverpool supporting moderator is not being impartial.

Seaneh

Serious issue involving one of the biggest players in world football deserves it's own thread.

Dozen Wicked Words

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

It is being discussed in two threads already on the forum.

Which ones? Match thread, that supposedly have limited time before they are closed as per feedback thread.
Liverpool super thread which would leave posters wide open to accusations of trolling.

If there are others I apologise.

Lovely Bloke

Seaneh wrote: »

Serious issue involving one of the biggest players in world football deserves it's own thread.

but because of a stupid technicality the thread is entirely shut down.

Is the thread title the issue? The subject matter?

Lovely Bloke

It's not a "Liverpool thread" subject. It didn't happen in a Liverpool match, he just happens to play for Liverpool.

So that thread is not the place for it.

If it was a one off incidend, I could possibly see it being contained to the match thread, but it's the THIRD TIME that same player has bitten an opponent, and the whole topic is deserving of it's own thread, of course it is.

But a technicality gives the moderator a convenient excuse to shut the discussion down.

GLaDOS

To be pedantic, the charter states

Anybody that starts a " Are Manager X & Team Y Done " will receive a 2 week ban,

And the thread in question didn't mention a manager or a team and doesn't follow the same topic as previous threads.

Topic certainly deserves its own thread anyway.

Soft Falling Rain

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yes, the match thread and the Liverpool thread.

The "discussion" in the Liverpool thread is nothing but Liverpool fans derailing discussion of their lovable rogue. The Liverpool fans are doing their damndest to get the subject shut down, and the Liverpool supporting moderator is not being impartial.

Not sure where you're getting the derailment from, fans in the superthread have been forthcoming in discussing what happened openly.

For now, the two threads are doing a fine job in containing a very volatile subject that is still in its infancy. Does it deserve it's own thread? Yeah, but I don't see the problem in letting the match thread and superthread deal with it for now, until some of the stakeholders in the issue (Suarez, Fifa, Cheillini etc) say their piece on the matter.

Otherwise you're just asking for a thread that fosters wild speculation based on nothing, I'm sure you wouldn't want that.

Seaneh

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

It's not a "Liverpool thread" subject. It didn't happen in a Liverpool match, he just happens to play for Liverpool.

So that thread is not the place for it.

If it was a one off incidend, I could possibly see it being contained to the match thread, but it's the THIRD TIME that same player has bitten an opponent, and the whole topic is deserving of it's own thread, of course it is.

But a technicality gives the moderator a convenient excuse to shut the discussion down.

Yup. Title should have been changed and thread left open.

Lovely Bloke

If anything, the match thread needs locking and the discussion isolated, the match thread has descended into farce.

Soft Falling Rain

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

If anything, the match thread needs locking and the discussion isolated, the match thread has descended into farce.

In this moment in time would a dedicated thread be any less of a farce?

Lovely Bloke

Soft Falling Rain wrote: »

In this moment in time would a dedicated thread be any less of a farce?

Look, I get that you don't want to see a proper discussion of this subject, but it should be discussed and moderated properly.

That doesn't mean locking the thread about it because the thread title is technically against the charter.

Soft Falling Rain

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

Look, I get that you don't want to see a proper discussion of this subject, but it should be discussed and moderated properly.

That doesn't mean locking the thread about it because the thread title is technically against the charter.

Eh? I just said it should get its own thread, when more has been said about it by those involved. A FIFA statement for example would be nice before starting a thread.

At least that would give the discussion some sort of focal point, without one the thread is just coming to be full of vitriol and hyperbole.

mike65

I'd see nothing wrong with a thread either, maybe the mods are a bit auto-reactive about this sort of thing. Its news.

Perhaps a Mod can start one in the morning when a few statements have been issued by interested parties.

(not sure I'd call them STAKEholders though! :pac:)

Dozen Wicked Words

How far is Roy out of his depth (I refuse to write it the same as that OP did) sits there happily on the forum yet is tantamount to the same thing as is he done yet. So the wording is everything and content nothing?

Lord TSC

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

The Liverpool fans are doing their damndest to get the subject shut down, and the Liverpool supporting moderator is not being impartial.

As the resident Man United fan on the forum's mod team, can I just say that trying to bring who the mods support into the discussion doesn't change the fact the post was in breech of the charter. If Kess hadn't locked it, I would have.

There's already a full discussion of the incident going on in the match thread. There's very little that any new thread, regardless of title, would have brought to the table, at least until there's a development about it outside of the match itself. Soft Falling Rain is right, the two threads (and being honest, there's other threads discussing it as well) are more than enough for now, and as the story develops, new topics may then become nessecary.

In the meanwhile, there's a method to discuss what happened in the match and the effects it could have on his career, taking on board the fact it's a repeat offence, without needing to start another thread that would, right now, simply repeat everything that's already been covered elsewhere.

Lovely Bloke

So it's the wording used and not the subject matter?

This is extremely inconsistent moderation.

I understand the subject will be hard to moderate, but surely having the topic spread across multiple threads will make it HARDER to moderate than if all discussion was kept to one thread?

Also, allowing the discussion to continue with Liverpool fans making ridiculous strawman arguments, making up silly scenarios in an attempt to appeal to the bizarre to ridicule and shout down anyone who dares to question the actions of their hero, and the mod in question has shut down the topic because he didn't like it.

Soft Falling Rain

Just about the incident not being about LFC and that's why it instantly must have its on thread like right now - we all know LFC is going to be a central point of any potential thread, so it seems a little hypocritical to use such reasoning as justification for separating the discussion from the superthread.

5starpool

Should have its own thread on really. The Liverpool thread doesn't allow proper discussion within the charter rules.

mike65

On the other hand

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057236772

Dozen Wicked Words

mike65 wrote: »

On the other hand

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057236772

That one hasn't started particularly well admittedly! Wasn't a lot wrong with the old thread though title aside.

Soft Falling Rain

mike65 wrote: »

On the other hand

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057236772

Quality 'proper' discussion.

P_1

There really isn't a lot to say beyond 'it was a bite'/'no it wasn't' at this stage to be fair and that probably has the potential to descend into a train wreck of Tay Bridge proportions particularly when you consider the relaxed entry policy of the soccer forum during the world cup. It's probably best to keep things as they are until anything else becomes clear.

dfx-

Lord TSC wrote: »

As the resident Man United fan on the forum's mod team, can I just say that trying to bring who the mods support into the discussion doesn't change the fact the post was in breech of the charter. If Kess hadn't locked it, I would have.

I'd like to add here that if Kess or Lord TSC hadn't locked it, I would have. To bring the support or supposed bias of the mod into question is misguided.

Dozen Wicked Words

I honestly don't see how dumping the fallout in the Liverpool thread is going to be an improvement on the thread that was running. I wouldn't want it if I were a Liverpool fan. The way it is now you are directing people right toward where it would annoy the most.

Still, I appreciate soccer mods taking the time to reply. All the best.

GavRedKing

The user that started it stated in his OP the below :

A great player but today we witnessed another display of the disgusting behaviour of Luis Suarez, the fact he has bitten a player for a second time shows that he hasn't learned his lesson or is seriously mentally ill and a more serious punishment or treatment is warranted, if you or I did that to someone in our everyday lives it would be classed as grievous bodily harm and either jail term or a time in a mental institution would be warranted , a 6 months to a years ban from club and international football is the absolute minimum punishment that he should face, only the most ardent of Liverpool fans can defend this, what's your opinion?

So basically a Utd fan has started a thread thats going to open up a sh*t ton of trolling/flaming and ye want it to be allowed?

For what reason? The thread would last 2 maybe 3 posts before it would descend into anarchy while people either a) back him to hilt or b) get their pound of flesh.

I'd allow a thread for reasoned debate, no problem but everyone in here knows we'd have the thread closed in a few posts after multiple cards and bannins so we can either ban dozens of ye for inevitably getting involved or we can shut it down at source with minimum cards/bans.

I can start a thread and issue a once off warning that any trolling will be actioned with a ban and we can see how long it lasts but the long and short of it is Suarez has bit a player for the 3rd time, seemingly, what more do you want to say? Everything else will fall into trolling or winding up one side of the Utd/Liverpool divide.

K-9

Tbh it will always be a Lfc related thread because many are calling for an unprecedented club and international ban, so therefor Lfc related. I don't see that much wrong with the match thread, you'll get a few outlandish posters on both sides, that'll happen anyway. I'd agree it probably deserves its own thread, but I wouldn't ban it to just one. The Lfc and Arsenal threads have discussion but that's because they have obvious links and are easy enough to mod.

gimmick

So a 2nd thread got closed as well saying the discussion of the main talking point of the world cup so far should be confined to the match thread "for now"? That is utterly crazy and smacks to me of mods just blocking their ears and shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING".

When will it be okay to talk about this in a thread of its own?

Bad modding top to bottom again.

Beasty

GavRedKing wrote: »

I can start a thread and issue a once off warning that any trolling will be actioned with a ban and we can see how long it lasts but the long and short of it is Suarez has bit a player for the 3rd time, seemingly, what more do you want to say? Everything else will fall into trolling or winding up one side of the Utd/Liverpool divide.

A thread like this needs ground rules, as proposed by Gav, otherwise it would descend into chaos.

I would add though that starting such a thread last night in the heat of the moment was bound to be even more troublesome, so in my view this is certainly not a case of "bad modding" - if a thread gets started this morning with appropriate ground rules as Gav is suggested I think that's pretty good modding

therecklessone

Beasty wrote: »

A thread like this needs ground rules, as proposed by Gav, otherwise it would descend into chaos.

I would add though that starting such a thread last night in the heat of the moment was bound to be even more troublesome, so in my view this is certainly not a case of "bad modding" - if a thread gets started this morning with appropriate ground rules as Gav is suggested I think that's pretty good modding

I can see why in the heat of the after-match the original thread was closed, but there really doesn't need to be ground rules for a new one: just start a thread and remind people that like with all threads they should bear the Soccer Forum charter in mind when posting.

You can, and should, do it right now.

Match threads are supposed to have a limited lifespan, if you confine this discussion to there and/or the Liverpool Superthread then you are making a rod for your own backs when the new PL season starts and something contentious happens in a big match which leads to charges being brought by the FA/PL.

GavRedKing

Anybody wondering why we dont need a Suarez thread, read the last few pages of the Italy v Uruguay thread.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057236117&page=73

In fact I'm going to give ye all a chance to see how it goes, I'm going to close the match thread and start a Luis Suarez thread, if it lasts until 11AM I'd be very surprsied.

mike65

Its a pity the unwashed are currently on the football forum, they were not things would be a bit more manageable I'd say.

P_1

mike65 wrote: »

Its a pity the unwashed are currently on the football forum, they were not things would be a bit more manageable I'd say.

Sorry but that's an incredibly elitist post to have as your 90 thousandth. People have to start somewhere on this site and attitudes like that tend to go against the general friendliness of the place.

Darkglasses

mike65 wrote: »

Its a pity the unwashed are currently on the football forum, they were not things would be a bit more manageable I'd say.

The overwhelming majority of trouble is still coming from forum regulars, the usual tribalistic stuff.

I also dislike your "unwashed" description.

mike65

Ah jasus, does everything have to come with a ****ing smiley face to indicate tone ?

Just on this

. People have to start somewhere on this site and attitudes like that tend to go against the general friendliness of the place.

the open door is temporary don't forget. The old rules which operate to keep the newbie out will be back.

Lovely Bloke

Darkglasses wrote: »

I also dislike your "unwashed" description.

yeah, "The Great Unwashed" is an eons old term, and is normal parlance for most people.

Jesus, are we supposed to sanitise everything now?

weisses

GavRedKing wrote: »

In fact I'm going to give ye all a chance to see how it goes, I'm going to close the match thread and start a Luis Suarez thread, if it lasts until 11AM I'd be very surprsied.

A selfie with your surprised look will do :P

Darkglasses

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yeah, "The Great Unwashed" is an eons old term, and is normal parlance for most people.

Jesus, are we supposed to sanitise everything now?

I know it's old. Check any dictionary you want, it refers to inferiors, lower classes, etc.

What you think about it if say moderators and admins used it to describe everyone else on the website? I think that would be sh!tty.

Mickeroo

gimmick wrote: »

So a 2nd thread got closed as well saying the discussion of the main talking point of the world cup so far should be confined to the match thread "for now"? That is utterly crazy and smacks to me of mods just blocking their ears and shouting "I'M NOT LISTENING".

When will it be okay to talk about this in a thread of its own?

Bad modding top to bottom again.

That thread was open for about ten minutes, resulted in 6 reported posts , 2 infractions and a warning. It would have been locked on any forum on the site.

Kess73

Darkglasses wrote: »

I know it's old. Check any dictionary you want, it refers to inferiors, lower classes, etc.

What you think about it if say moderators and admins used it to describe everyone else on the website? I think that would be sh!tty.

Well if a mod said it, there would probably be a feedback thread set up to express genuine outrage.

Kess73

Baldy Conscience wrote: »

yeah, "The Great Unwashed" is an eons old term, and is normal parlance for most people.

Jesus, are we supposed to sanitise everything now?

Loving all your contributions in the Suarez thread. Good to see that you had loads to contribute and justified the outrage you showed last night at yesterday's thread being closed.


So unusual for you to start a feedback thread and then have nothing at all to add to the forum or thread that you were complaining about.

Lovely Bloke

Darkglasses wrote: »

What you think about it if say moderators and admins used it to describe everyone else on the website? I think that would be sh!tty.

Are you forgetting that I used to have access to various mod forums on this site?

It has been used before in those circles, seriously, do a search. I can't any more.

gimmick

Mickeroo wrote: »

That thread was open for about ten minutes, resulted in 6 reported posts , 2 infractions and a warning. It would have been locked on any forum on the site.

But as a mod are you not meant to clean the thread rather than stop people from talking about it and hiding away is some huge mega match thread?

People get animated talking about sports. Friends take the piss out of each other about it all the time. Boards soccer forum does not want any such fun, only serious, stern conversation where only the facts may be discussed.

Mickeroo

gimmick wrote: »

But as a mod are you not meant to clean the thread rather than stop people from talking about it and hiding away is some huge mega match thread?

People get animated talking about sports. Friends take the piss out of each other about it all the time. Boards soccer forum does not want any such fun, only serious, stern conversation where only the facts may be discussed.

The discussion was going fine in the match thread and Liverpool at the time, now the match thread is closed and the discussion is in its own thread along with the Liverpool thread. The thread was superfluous to the forum's needs at the time and was only serving to make work for us on a night that was already proving busy.

Bounty Hunter

I find it extremely odd that 30mins after a thread is closed for something explicitly forbidden in the charter which was linked to when the thread was closed a feedback thread is started about the same issue and who a moderator supports is called into question especially when that moderator nor any other has been contacted during that 30mins by that person in an attempt to seek answers to what they are wondering so much so that they thought a feedback thread was needed.

Unless people are trying to take a dig at the moderation team (not specifically saying it is the case here) sometimes a little patience is needed or a more communicative approach.

Also bringing who someone supports into it is def not needed and just to add to what the other mods have said I "The Villa Mod" (excpet nobody every gives me cr*p when I warn/infract them cos I dont support their rivals, and yet I still warn/infract em) would have closed that thread and one of the main reasons why is that as the recent forum feedback thread pointed out, The Forum want more consistancy so if something is clearly outlined in the charter as being off bounds and resulting in a specified ban and others have fallen afoul of it before then of course any of the mods no matter who they support will lock the thread and implement said ban.

There is now a dedicated thread for all the Suarez action which was opened by a mod and from the get go had necessary warnings about acceptable conduct because since this incident there have been far more posts that are against the charter than there have been in a long time. Hopefully this will make this not an issue for anyone that it was an issue for anyway

Mr E

Kess vs. Baldy posts deleted. Take it to PM guys...

Penny Tration

mike65 wrote: »

Its a pity the unwashed are currently on the football forum, they were not things would be a bit more manageable I'd say.

Wow. Nice to know my posts in the thread aren't welcomed simply because I'm not a regular poster.