Query about landlord calling to collect rent

davesangel

Hi there,

I'm considering moving into a new property in Dublin, and have found out that if I take it, the rent will be cash in hand each month, and that the landlord will call round every 2 weeks to collect the rent.

Does this sound a bit excessive? The only time I ever paid cash in hand was to a lady in south Dublin and she would just collect the rent once a month (or sometimes once every two months depending on her work schedule), but for all other properties I have always paid via bank transfer. I just feel a bit like my privacy is being invaded and wondered what my rights are here?

godtabh

sounds like he isnt tax registered. You probably wont be registered with the PRTB either (still protected by them though)

davesangel

godtabh wrote: »

sounds like he isnt tax registered. You probably wont be registered with the PRTB either (still protected by them though)

Cheers - I had a feeling about that but the PRTB site seems to be having probs so I can't check that it is definitely registered.

Do you think I could ask him to call round every 4 weeks instead? It just makes me very uncomfortable and also I don't like the idea of having to get large sums of money out every 2 weeks, so many of my friends have been mugged in Dublin.

punisher5112

davesangel wrote: »

Cheers - I had a feeling about that but the PRTB site seems to be having probs so I can't check that it is definitely registered.

Do you think I could ask him to call round every 4 weeks instead? It just makes me very uncomfortable and also I don't like the idea of having to get large sums of money out every 2 weeks, so many of my friends have been mugged in Dublin.

bank draft minimum and otherwise bank transfer I would never pay cash.

Phil_Lives

Do not agree to pay by cash. You are entering in to a professional arrangement and keep things professional. Pay by Direct Debit to the bank account supplied by him and go to the PRTB website know to check that the rental property is declared.
Do not deal with landlords who play fast and loose with the law. This is your shelter and after food is the most important requirement for your continued well-being.

davesangel

Thanks everyone.

I'll give a bit more background info: My current landlord has upped our rent a lot and without significant period of notice, and there are serious issues with the property which have never been fixed, so I am keen to get out of there. He has turned quite nasty when I have brought up legitimate problems so I want to get out. The new property I have mentioned above is the only one in my price limit and in a decent area of Dublin and I can move in anytime so I'm possibly meeting him tomorrow to pay deposit.

I'm not the best at confrontation, so am I definitely in my rights to say to him 'once a month only' - or to ask for bank transfer? sorry if this all makes me sound like a bit of a wuss!

Phil_Lives

At the start of the contract you are entitled to agree the terms of the contract and you should be insisting upon payment by direct debit.

if he isn't registered with PRTB and hasn't provided a BER cert you should be informing him that you are unwilling to rent from him and wish him well in his search for a new tenant.

timetogo

davesangel wrote: »

I'm not the best at confrontation, so am I definitely in my rights to say to him 'once a month only' - or to ask for bank transfer? sorry if this all makes me sound like a bit of a wuss!

Of course you're in your rights. But the landlord is probably within his rights to give it to somebody else if you haven't signed anything yet. If he's insisting on cash every fortnight, I'd be looking elsewhere.

Paying cash makes it sound like he's trying to evade tax (does that even work anymore).

TimeToShine

Dodgy advice telling her to issue an ultimatum because he could quite easily find someone else.

Ask him to go monthly is your best option. Cash in hand landlords are generally fixed on it, even if you inform them that any LL this side of the millennium has switched to bank transfers. Just bear in mind that unfortunately it is a landlord's market nowadays. He could most likely replace you with someone willing to pay bi-monthly with relative ease.

Greenmachine

Why move from one bad situation to another?

punisher5112

Op you say LL is putting up the rent.

Have you been there 12 months as this can only be done 1 time every 12 and at market value.

You can take out a case with prtb to have increase checked if legal to do so if you feel its above market rate.

Also let them know in writing about all the problems and things not working.

Do not let them walk all over you once you are I am guessing a good and clean tenant.

There are some dodgy LL and tenants out there.
The new LL could be as bad or worse as where you are now.

davesangel

punisher5112 wrote: »

Op you say LL is putting up the rent.

Have you been there 12 months as this can only be done 1 time every 12 and at market value.

You can take out a case with prtb to have increase checked if legal to do so if you feel its above market rate.

Also let them know in writing about all the problems and things not working.

Do not let them walk all over you once you are I am guessing a good and clean tenant.

There are some dodgy LL and tenants out there.
The new LL could be as bad or worse as where you are now.

Hi there:

When I moved in, the place looked ok, but when you started moving furniture you could see ground-on dust and dirt. I was so disgusted that I didn't even take photos of this but just cleaned like my life depended on it. The majority of the electric appliances (fridge, kettle, toaster, vacuum cleaner) broke after the first time I used them. Landlord told me to buy replacements rather than buying them himself and eventually paid me back. I didn't get the cost of delivery paid though but given the horror stories that friends have told me about their landlords (even though my mates are all reliable decent tenants) I wondered did I have a leg to stand on. I was informed via email of a 10% rise in rent (not huge yes, but still more than I would pay for somewhere like that). I've been there over a year and it's the first increase in rent which is legally ok. So many things have gone wrong that I just can't live there anymore, it's making me miserable and current LL doesn't give a crap and I see it getting worse, so I think cutting my losses and moving on is probably for the best.

The new place has all-new appliances and everything seems good, I did a thorough check after previous bad experiences. It's just the frequency of him calling round that unnerves me.

davesangel

TimeToShine wrote: »

Dodgy advice telling her to issue an ultimatum because he could quite easily find someone else.

Ask him to go monthly is your best option. Cash in hand landlords are generally fixed on it, even if you inform them that any LL this side of the millennium has switched to bank transfers. Just bear in mind that unfortunately it is a landlord's market nowadays. He could most likely replace you with someone willing to pay bi-monthly with relative ease.

Yeah, a few people who looked at the property were so keen to move in that I think they would be happy to pay weekly if they could just find a place over their heads, so you're right that he could get someone else to move in.

The main issue for me is knowing that security in Dublin isn't always great and what if I was away on holiday or at work and the LL shows up and my rent has been nicked - it's cash in hand so I have no security or proof that I took it out. This did actually happen to a friend and her flatmate and it seems that someone else in the building did it because they knew that the landlord collected cash on a certain day each month.
At least if it was once a month I could be sure to get my boss to let me off that evening and be there to hand a month's rent in instead of a fortnight's.

A2LUE42

Is your rent Monthly or Bi weekly. Had a landlord years ago who agreed a monthly rate and then collected every four weeks. Until they tried to collect twice in the one month. They then realised the difference between a four week period and a month. If you pay half a monthly rate every two weeks, there is quite a difference.

But paying cash for something like this these days seems weird to say the least.

Phil_Lives

TimeToShine wrote: »

Dodgy advice telling her to issue an ultimatum because he could quite easily find someone else.

A non-negotiable is an Ultimatium and peaceful enjoyment of your rented property is a non-negotiable.

Oink

Re. your new LL, my only question is: are you sure you want to want to start a business relationship with him at all in the first place???

Sounds to me like you're going from one clown to another. Cash in hand every two weeks?? What kind of buffoonery is this?? Direct debit, once a month, thats how its done in the 21st century.

foggy_lad

This new Landlord may be trying to get a look inside the property to check if as you say everything is new, he may be concerned for his investment. on a legal note though you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property which means he is only allowed call a couple of times a year to check on the property and service items like the gas boiler etc.

Ask him if he will be expecting to inspect the property or even enter twice a month when he collects the rent as this would be something he is not entitled to do.

davesangel

A2LUE42 wrote: »

Is your rent Monthly or Bi weekly. Had a landlord years ago who agreed a monthly rate and then collected every four weeks. Until they tried to collect twice in the one month. They then realised the difference between a four week period and a month. If you pay half a monthly rate every two weeks, there is quite a difference.

But paying cash for something like this these days seems weird to say the least.

On Daft the property was advertised as being a particular amount 'weekly'. So I know this isn't the same as 'monthly' which is grand, but figured if he would call every 2 weeks surely call every 4th week and I'll pay the relevant amount

davesangel

foggy_lad wrote: »

This new Landlord may be trying to get a look inside the property to check if as you say everything is new, he may be concerned for his investment. on a legal note though you are entitled to peaceful enjoyment of the property which means he is only allowed call a couple of times a year to check on the property and service items like the gas boiler etc.

Ask him if he will be expecting to inspect the property or even enter twice a month when he collects the rent as this would be something he is not entitled to do.

Yeah that's my concern...I'm just wondering what I can say to make sure that he knows that my privacy is important and that a LL isn't meant to come check on a property every 2 weeks as that is excessive (which it is)?

drumswan

Rent is paid monthly by direct debit.

Any other arrangement is an indicator that you are dealing with a cowboy. Too many people ignore the blatant warning signs and end up in ****ty rental situations. See the many threads on here for example.

davesangel

drumswan wrote: »

Rent is paid monthly by direct debit.

Any other arrangement is an indicator that you are dealing with a cowboy. Too many people ignore the blatant warning signs and end up in ****ty rental situations. See the many threads on here for example.

Thanks. I'll have a word with him tomorrow and just say I feel more comfortable paying monthly and that as far as I'm aware, by law rent can only be collected monthly (or every 4th week) in Dublin and I'm not comfortable with this. It's a shame as it is a nice apartment and good location etc.

Phil_Lives

rent can be collected whenever agreed between the two parties.
just say you want to pay by direct debit monthly.

Lantus

payment by cash means no paper trail as to what you have paid if there is ever a problem. I doubt he's going to be providing receipts either.

All sounds dodgy. Just because its a good area doesn't mean he isn't a scum bag.

davesangel

Lantus wrote: »

payment by cash means no paper trail as to what you have paid if there is ever a problem. I doubt he's going to be providing receipts either.

All sounds dodgy. Just because its a good area doesn't mean he isn't a scum bag.

Apparently there will be a rent book (from Threshhold) which I saw at the time so at least it's tracked, but still, would def prefer monthly.

brembo26

He could be genuine.

We pay by cash, he has every member in the house registered with the PRTB and fills in a receipt book which was issued to him by the PRTB and leaves it with us.

My landlord collects the cash every 4 weeks though.

davesangel

brembo26 wrote: »

He could be genuine.

We pay by cash, he has every member in the house registered with the PRTB and fills in a receipt book which was issued to him by the PRTB and leaves it with us.

My landlord collects the cash every 4 weeks though.

I'd be ok with paying in cash if it was changed to every 4 weeks...I guess I'll just see what he says.

Lemlin

Phil_Lives wrote: »

At the start of the contract you are entitled to agree the terms of the contract and you should be insisting upon payment by direct debit.

if he isn't registered with PRTB and hasn't provided a BER cert you should be informing him that you are unwilling to rent from him and wish him well in his search for a new tenant.

The landlord will easily find a new tenant who doesn't insist on the above. The question is will the OP find a new house as easily?

You need to be realistic with your feedback and very few landlords are going to agree, in the current market, to having terms imposed on them which they don't agree with.

Wabbit Ears

for all we know the landlord could have been burn badly by previous tennants being in arrears and not paying rent on time and now goes out of his way to collect personally and in shorter/smaller amounts.

Its a PITA for him to do this every fortnight so Id imagine his reasons are strong enough to go through the hassle. Hes probebly more put outy then the tennent is who only has to make sure the rent is there and hes actually in at the collection times.

davesangel

Lemlin wrote: »

The landlord will easily find a new tenant who doesn't insist on the above. The question is will the OP find a new house as easily?

You need to be realistic with your feedback and very few landlords are going to agree, in the current market, to having terms imposed on them which they don't agree with.

That's a good point...one property I saw just before the one I'm thinking of taking was appalling: you could smell severe mold the second you walked through the front door, there was mold everywhere (which could 'be painted over'), there were holes in the ceilings and walls, and the agent showing us round said that even without the place being painted/'refurbished', people would be paying 750 for it. I wouldn't wish a place like that on my worst enemy, so I'd say the LL would be able to get someone in who would be happy with rent collection every 2 weeks...

The_Morrigan

Folks, rent is not paid by direct debit, as that would give the landlord permission to deduct any amount once he gave you notice of the debit. It is either a bank transfer (manually done by the OP every month) or a standing order (which is a set amount that is debited on a certain date, this can be daily, weekly, monthly etc)

Frank Lee Midere

Wabbit Ears wrote: »

for all we know the landlord could have been burn badly by previous tennants being in arrears and not paying rent on time and now goes out of his way to collect personally and in shorter/smaller amounts.

Its a PITA for him to do this every fortnight so Id imagine his reasons are strong enough to go through the hassle. Hes probebly more put outy then the tennent is who only has to make sure the rent is there and hes actually in at the collection times.

His obvious reason is tax avoidance.

Wabbit Ears

So the OP should just assume this to be true, assume that nothing good will ever come of living in this guys rental property and walk away?

Obviously you nor anyone you know is trying to find affordable rental peoperty in dublin at the moment.

drumswan

The_Morrigan wrote: »

Folks, rent is not paid by direct debit, as that would give the landlord permission to deduct any amount once he gave you notice of the debit. It is either a bank transfer (manually done by the OP every month) or a standing order (which is a set amount that is debited on a certain date, this can be daily, weekly, monthly etc)

Of course, standing order not direct debit!

Wabbit Ears wrote:

Its a PITA for him to do this every fortnight so Id imagine his reasons are strong enough to go through the hassle. Hes probebly more put outy then the tennent is who only has to make sure the rent is there and hes actually in at the collection times.

This is comical. The tenant 'only' has to meet the landlord 26 times a year to hand over cash to him. Do you think people have nothing else to do?

Professional service providers offer electronic payment as it is secure and convenient for both parties. Its 2014.

Ice Storm

I've paid rent by cash before. The landlord wasn't dodgy, just old school.

We had a rent book that he signed every month and he had no problem giving us his details to claim tax credits.

If given the choice I would have preferred to by standing order but paying by cash had its benefits - he would often notice little things that could be improved about the place. When we paid our rent at Christmas, he gave us €50 back!

Just wanted to point out that not all cash in hand landlords are cowboys but I would try and get him to agree to once a month instead of every two weeks.

Funky G

Paying cash to the LL every two weeks? He /she must have so much time to spare.

I've heard of some LL's doing this on a monthly basis - most likely that they are not tax compliant and they are not registered with the PRTB. A friend of mine was in accommodation and the LL was paid monthly in cash. I'll ask him did he at least get a receipt or sign the rent book proving that he - the tenant - paid or was the LL registered.

Best advice is to get your LL to do this once a month. Get a journal of some sort to keep records of all transactions - times, dates, monies handed over, etc.

Go through your contract and check what are the terms for payment. As for the rent increase the LL is only allowed an increase once a year, and not in mid-agreement.

Lemlin

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

He also says he found it far easier for people to fiddle payments by electronic means than if he has a representative calling once a week or month to collect the rent and fill out a rent book with the tenant.

Of course it also means he is keeping a close eye on all the properties.

drumswan

Lemlin wrote: »

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

Come off it, you can export inbound payments to a spreadsheet with a click of a button from any online bank. I presume he also has an accountant.

Maybe he should call round to each tenant and get 1/365th of the annual rent every day

Lemlin

drumswan wrote: »

Come off it, you can export inbound payments to a spreadsheet with a click of a button from any online bank. I presume he also has an accountant.

Maybe he should call round to each tenant and get 1/365th of the annual rent every day

This man owns alot of properties and has one employee looking after them all on a full-time basis. I doubt he even knows how to open Microsoft Excel.

He does have an accountant.

drumswan

Running a business involving multiple six figure assets, doesn't know how to operate a spreadsheet program and travels around collecting cash from his clients, causing them inconvenience and intruding on their privacy. Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

beauf

Lemlin wrote: »

I know a LL who owns many properties in Dublin and refuses to accept electronic payment. Nothing to do with being "old school", he simply has that many properties that he would find payments going all over the place and it would be impossible to track them all.

He also says he found it far easier for people to fiddle payments by electronic means than if he has a representative calling once a week or month to collect the rent and fill out a rent book with the tenant.

Of course it also means he is keeping a close eye on all the properties.

That makes no sense.

He's either technophobic and/or doesn't want the cash tracked and/or
wants to apply pressure via physic presence of a "representative"

beauf

drumswan wrote: »

..Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

Maybe specialises in a particular breed of Irish tenant....

beauf

davesangel wrote: »

Thanks everyone.

I'll give a bit more background info: My current landlord has upped our rent a lot and without significant period of notice, and there are serious issues with the property which have never been fixed, so I am keen to get out of there. He has turned quite nasty when I have brought up legitimate problems so I want to get out. The new property I have mentioned above is the only one in my price limit and in a decent area of Dublin and I can move in anytime so I'm possibly meeting him tomorrow to pay deposit.

I'm not the best at confrontation, so am I definitely in my rights to say to him 'once a month only' - or to ask for bank transfer? sorry if this all makes me sound like a bit of a wuss!

Sounds like you're jumping from pan to fire.

drumswan

Both tenants and landlords need to apply common sense when entering into a business agreement of this scale. Landlords use things like RA requirements as a filter for perfectly good reasons, tenants need to recognise their own set of red flags. Expecting you to give up your own free time to organise an envelope full of cash every second Tuesday being one of them.

athtrasna

davesangel wrote: »

I'd be ok with paying in cash if it was changed to every 4 weeks...I guess I'll just see what he says.

You do realise that means 13 payments in a year right? If you get paid monthly you'll only get paid 12 times

on_my_oe

We had our rent collected for five years monthly in cash

1) the rent collector frequently wanted to collect a couple of days early, often only notifying us at 4pm he would be visiting that evening
2) the rent collector would turn up late eg 9pm or later when we had rushed home to be there at 6.30pm
3) he refused to provide a rent book - I provided a notebook and refused to hand over cash until he signed it
4) we were told by someone who knew him he collected in cash to do inspections, and also ensure he got his 15% cut of the rent as managing fee (eg if we paid by standing order, he was worried his client landlords wouldn't pay him)
5) when our landlord had his apartment repossessed, he claimed he hadn't received half of rent that we had paid (and a rent receipt for) - either the landlord was lying or the rent collector didn't pass it all along
6) we had the argument from hell getting the registration done, which was important for the rent relief at the time
7) we had our mortgage application declined due to the lack of paper trail

I would avoid a cash arrangement like the plague

Lemlin

drumswan wrote: »

Running a business involving multiple six figure assets, doesn't know how to operate a spreadsheet program and travels around collecting cash from his clients, causing them inconvenience and intruding on their privacy. Sounds like a particular breed of Irish landlord alright.

Yes, there's huge inconvenience in answering the door once a month to hand someone a cash payment and sign a rent book.

Not to mention the huge invasion of privacy

Mrs OBumble

Phil_Lives wrote: »

At the start of the contract you are entitled to agree the terms of the contract and you should be insisting upon payment by direct debit.

Ahh, no you absolutely should not.

A DD lets the other party take as much money as they want from your account at any time: they initiate the transaction every time.

A Standing Order is initiated by you, and gives you full control over when payments are made, and how much for.

SO = good practise.
DD = bad practise, unless you absolutely trust the other party.

The ONLY company I do DD with is ESB. All others can have standing orders (if appropriate) or I do a transaction each billing period.

Mrs OBumble

OP, one of your posts said you'd be worried about the rent going missing if you were working an evening shift and not at home to hand it over.

Personally I wouldn't have a problem with paying 2-weekly (and actually did this for most of my renting life prior to coming to Ireland). Only having to carry half of the amount of cash actually makes it safer for you.

But the expectation that you would leave the rent in the house for him does not sit well. If he's calling to the house, then he needs to do it at a time to suit you. Or he needs to call to you at work or whatever other location is mutually convenient. Leaving cash lying around for him - or as you say, anyone else, to find Is Not On.

And when he does call to the house, then I would not expect him to get any further inside than the front porch.

awec

Remember OP - this means you are going to have to get cash out at the cash machine and for at least a short period have a large sum of cash on your person.

Also, if your rent is above your daily withdrawal rate (which it most likely is) then you will either have to take it from an ATM over two days (and make sure that you don't max yourself out on one of the days just in case you need emergency cash) or get yourself to a branch and actually go in to the bank.

I hate using cash for anything - even going to the shop. Can't wait for the day it no longer exists. Paying rent by cash would be a complete nuisance for you.

desertcircus

Lemlin wrote: »

Yes, there's huge inconvenience in answering the door once a month to hand someone a cash payment and sign a rent book.

Not to mention the huge invasion of privacy

There actually is a fair amount of inconvenience (and risk) involved in requiring a tenant to take out several hundred quid in cash, bring it back to their apartment or house, and then stay in waiting for the landlord to arrive so they can hand it over. Twelve times a year. A perfectly simple alternative exists and takes far less time and effort - pay it by standing order, which is better on every single count.

Snake

Well it could also be just the landlord a bit wary of you, making sure you're keeping the place well and such, cash in hand is not okay unless he provides a signed receipt every time and if he can't do that, tell him you'll pay him when he gets the receipt, don't hand him a deposit before moving in, that's a big no no. Obviously you can say look I'm not up to paying by cash, I'll do a standing order or not at all, don't just let him do whatever he wants, yeah it's his house but if you can't come to a mutual agreement it's better you find a landlord who's terms you can agree on and vice versa