Giving my notice - help!

1moo345

I have been lucky enough to find a new job and get out one I really despise. I have always been a great worker there and often have to work extra days and cover shifts etc. Everyone is leaving lately and I am just one of those people.


I handed my notice in on a Tuesday which, as per my contract, is one week as I have been working there for only ten months. I expected to be allowed to finish on the following Tuesday. It is 7days a week and all shift work, so it is not a 9-5 mon - fri job.

Anyone that has left before was allowed to do this, but now I have been told I cannot give my notice from Tues- Tues and it has to be from next Monday onwards, so it will be actully be just under two weeks notice. Is this right? My contract simply stats a week from the day of notice, it says nothing about what day it should be etc. They are very short handed and even more so after I go so I think they might be wrong in this instance and just chancing their arm.

Please help, I have put up with so much abuse in this job and out of principle I don't want to be used one last time I just want to get on with my life.

I am afraid if I say no they will withhold my last paycheck - ok it is illegal but so is many of the things they do.

What should I do, I am so angry.

blindsider

I was going to post sth lighthearted and sarcastic (against your 'employer's), but having re-read the post, I can see you're mightily p1ssed off - and understandably so.

Basically, they're full of cr@p and chancing their arm. A week's notice is a week's notice - no questions.

Did you give them a letter/email of resignation? If not, do so immediately. If you did, the clock's ticking and you're on your way out.

Don't let them bully you into accepting anything else.

Enjoy the new job.

NomadicGray

Go by whenever your contract says, dont take any guff from these swine

1moo345

I am totally pissed off but I don't mind a joke don't worry

I gave them the letter on the Tues and also said it to them while handing it in. All they ever do is bully. She blatantly stated I wasn't going to like my new job and to think carefully before I left. It is none of her business what I go on to do and definitely not her place to say. I am so annoyed.

If it was any other situation I would stay and stick the few days out as a favour but because I had such a bad time there I want to leave as soon as possible because there have been days I have screamed at and physically pushed. It is unreal.

Thanks for your advice I had a feeling that was the truth but I just don't have the guts to disagree much.

Thank you!

1moo345

NomadicGray wrote: »

Go by whenever your contract says, dont take any guff from these swine

I wish I had the courage. Legally I know I am right but I don't want to leave on a bad note... It is just seeming impossible not to though, because even when I am leaving they are using me to the last.

1moo345

They also said because I was scheduled already for next week (which I am not, I checked and the hours aren't even started for next week they are usually done on a Thurs) I have to work because of that reason. Is this true even though I still gave the correct notice?

Eoin

1moo345 wrote: »

Is this true even though I still gave the correct notice?

Nope! You'd never be able to leave if that was the case.

D Trent

Hi this sounds v similar to the circumstances of job I left last month.
In what area is this work
ie which sector would you describe this employment?

blindsider

1moo don't be too nice.

Sometimes, people confuse being nice with being weak. It's important that people realise that you're a nice person, not a weak one.

If nothing else, it's a lesson learned.

If you go in tomorrow and say that you've had the 'notice' situation clarified by a friend who works in HR, they'll likely back down. If not, go to Citizen's Information....

Quote: "She blatantly stated I wasn't going to like my new job and to think carefully before I left." :mad::mad::mad:

She said WHAT??? Oh, I'd blow my top....actually, I wouldn't. I'd go in tomorrow all smiles and full of the joys of life. I'd be Mr Smiley McSweetness from 1, Deeply Contented Drive in Happytown.

They know you're leaving - you'll get your paycheck and inside you'll be saying:

"Fcuk you pal! You'll never take advantage of me again. Good luck in your sad little life in your sad little job where you think bullying and exploitation is okay...good luck with that. I'm outta here!"

1moo345

Thanks everyone!!!

It is food service.

You are so right, I will let her know that tomorrow and I know the reaction will be bad but I only have to stick it out for a while I suppose. As long as I am covered legally then I am happy, I really wanted to leave on good terms as I done excellent work there and was hoping to have a great reference for the future but if they aren't willing to be professional what can I do.

Thanks again people, I will go in tomorrow happy and let her know what the deal is.

1moo345

Eoin wrote: »

Nope! You'd never be able to leave if that was the case.

So as long as it is within terms of notice, I can leave even if I am scheduled after the week?

Eoin

1moo345 wrote: »

So as long as it is within terms of notice, I can leave even if I am scheduled after the week?

Their rota is for them to worry about once your notice period is over. If it's a problem for them, they should have specified a longer notice period.

1moo345

Ok, that sounds true. Thank you!!!

Iwanttowork!!!

Once you give notice you give notice, simple as that. If you have holidays booked and give notice they still have to honour this.

You are much better off out of there, if they chance there arms like this or don't know the law they don't sound like a good place to be working at.

1moo345

I went in and tried to reason again and they said again the notice I gave on Wednesday will only start from the Monday as that's how they 'operate'. We are open over seven days and four of those days are 24hr so it isn't as if it is a set hours job. the law and my contract say they are wrong but they threatened that I don't 'just not show up'... Not sure what they could actually do about it but it took me hours to get the guts to say that never mind not going in.

I ended up crying after work I just am being treated worse than ever now.

CrookedJack

You have no obligation to work the extra days at all. You've given you notice, tried to reason with them, done all that could be expected of you. If they wont accept it then that's their own problem to deal with. They are trying to bully you, plain and simple. It's a common tactic in that industry, I was on both ends of it for years.

It's very simple, stick to your guns. They can tell you you're working, they can roster you when ever they like but as far as you're concerned Tuesday is your last day. Don't come in after that, you're under no obligation. And don't discuss it with them any more, it's just upsetting you, they can't force you to stay - you're not a slave!

Thoie

Stick to your guns. Don't "just not show up" - point out to them extremely clearly (I'd suggest in writing, and keep copies for yourself), that as per your contractual notice period, you handed in your notice at z date and time, and you will be finishing work on x date at y time, and will not be available after that. As per their responsibilities as an employer, you expect your final salary to be paid as normal, including any monies outstanding in lieu of holidays. In accordance with the law, you will be expecting your P45 to be available on your final day, and if it is not available, a precise date when it will be posted to you. If you do not receive it in a timely manner, you will contact the Revenue Commissioner.


If they're as crappy as they sound, be prepared to have to fight for your final pay and your P45. Do you have some savings that can tide you over for a week or so? Google constructive dismissal while you're pottering around on the internet as well.

Main thing is congratulations on the new job!


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/no_p45_no_p60.html

1moo345

When she said today about working the shifts or getting someone to cover them I tried to say no but I am just not forceful enough. I don't really know how to go about saying no I just get clammy and sick and nervous it sounds stupid but the words literally won't come out.

CrookedJack

1moo345 wrote: »

When she said today about working the shifts or getting someone to cover them I tried to say no but I am just not forceful enough. I don't really know how to go about saying no I just get clammy and sick and nervous it sounds stupid but the words literally won't come out.

This is why i say don't discuss it, it obviously upsets you. If i were you i would just say nothing when they talk to you about it, or be non-committal. And finish exactly when you say you would in your notice. Her asking you to get someone to cover the shifts is ridiculous. She's obviously trying to bully you, and it's having an effect on you. You're well within your rights to just leave now, as this is blatantly abusive, so you're already doing the decent thing by staying to work out your notice.

Just think, in less than a week you'll never have to worry about the place ever again.

wexie

Thoie wrote: »

Stick to your guns. Don't "just not show up" - point out to them extremely clearly (I'd suggest in writing, and keep copies for yourself), that as per your contractual notice period, you handed in your notice at z date and time, and you will be finishing work on x date at y time, and will not be available after that. As per their responsibilities as an employer, you expect your final salary to be paid as normal, including any monies outstanding in lieu of holidays. In accordance with the law, you will be expecting your P45 to be available on your final day, and if it is not available, a precise date when it will be posted to you. If you do not receive it in a timely manner, you will contact the Revenue Commissioner.


If they're as crappy as they sound, be prepared to have to fight for your final pay and your P45. Do you have some savings that can tide you over for a week or so? Google constructive dismissal while you're pottering around on the internet as well.

Main thing is congratulations on the new job!


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/no_p45_no_p60.html

All very good advice, would just like to add that (given the way these guys sound) it may not hurt to do this by registered letter.

(if nothing else it'll make it very clear that you're taking this seriously)

stargazer 68

Op that's exactly why she is doing this. Do the letter as suggested above and have no more to say on it. Finish on Tuesday and that's it. I know its hard but you can't let them ruin the excitement of your new job.

lynski

if i were you i would head to the doctor and get a sick cert for stress and call in sick for the remainder of the time. this is 2014, not 1914, you have rights and they have obligations.
Wlak, no, run away

dharma200

I too would go to the doctor and get a sick note. it sounds like it is making you sick.

mari2222

1. Be clear in your mind that you must leave on the day you wrote you would (with 7 days notice given).
2. Do not withdraw the notice or amend it.
3. Go and enjoy the new job.

If necessary, convince yourself that your new employer needs you immediately following your last shift, and YOU MUST GO.
When your mind is convinced on this, there will be no shilly-shallying around extra shifts or whatever.......

Life is short - grab hold of your chances

Thoie

1moo345 wrote: »

When she said today about working the shifts or getting someone to cover them I tried to say no but I am just not forceful enough. I don't really know how to go about saying no I just get clammy and sick and nervous it sounds stupid but the words literally won't come out.

Practise your best Audrey Hepburn look in the mirror (bonus points if you're a bloke) and repeat "That's not my concern" if you find the word "no" too blunt. Lower your voice while saying it. Don't pad it out with "I'm sorry but" or "I wish" or "I'll try". Just "That's not my concern" and nothing else.

Something to keep in the back of your mind is that for most places you're not insured to be on the premises as anything other than a guest once you're gone beyond your notice period, so if anything was to happen to you after the date on the letter, you probably wouldn't be covered.

The second thing to keep in your mind is why on earth would you be making staffing arrangements for a place you don't work? They don't grab me as I walk through Dunnes and demand that I get someone to cover next Wednesday, because I don't work there.

Eoin

Thoie wrote: »

Stick to your guns. Don't "just not show up" - point out to them extremely clearly (I'd suggest in writing, and keep copies for yourself), that as per your contractual notice period, you handed in your notice at z date and time, and you will be finishing work on x date at y time, and will not be available after that. As per their responsibilities as an employer, you expect your final salary to be paid as normal, including any monies outstanding in lieu of holidays. In accordance with the law, you will be expecting your P45 to be available on your final day, and if it is not available, a precise date when it will be posted to you. If you do not receive it in a timely manner, you will contact the Revenue Commissioner.


If they're as crappy as they sound, be prepared to have to fight for your final pay and your P45. Do you have some savings that can tide you over for a week or so? Google constructive dismissal while you're pottering around on the internet as well.

Main thing is congratulations on the new job!


http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/pay_and_employment/no_p45_no_p60.html

I'd agree with most of that - I wouldn't expect a P45 to be ready on the last day, unless the final paycheck is also available - so as you suggested, request that it comes with or very soon after the final paycheck.

I can't see how constructive dismissal applies here at all though; in fact, it's really the opposite scenario altogether. I'd say the most likely issue could be non-payment of wages, in case they act the arse.

blindsider

Thoie wrote: »

Practise your best Audrey Hepburn look in the mirror (bonus points if you're a bloke) and repeat "That's not my concern" if you find the word "no" too blunt. Lower your voice while saying it. Don't pad it out with "I'm sorry but" or "I wish" or "I'll try". Just "That's not my concern" and nothing else.

Something to keep in the back of your mind is that for most places you're not insured to be on the premises as anything other than a guest once you're gone beyond your notice period, so if anything was to happen to you after the date on the letter, you probably wouldn't be covered.

The second thing to keep in your mind is why on earth would you be making staffing arrangements for a place you don't work? They don't grab me as I walk through Dunnes and demand that I get someone to cover next Wednesday, because I don't work there.

2 very good points!

1 - Insurance. We can't give you legal advice here - but this would be a major concern.

2 - I had been going to suggest some 'role-playing' to gain a little assertiveness. Very good advice from Thoie. You could also try getting a friend, or family member to 'act' it out with you - you'd be surprised how much of a difference it can make - give it a go!

1moo345

I feel a lot stronger today about it but I also feel that when I go in tomorrow I will chicken out and the same will happen all over again.

I know I don't have to deal with their bull**** but I have had whispering, dirty looks and sarcastic comments from people in their 30s and 40s who are supposedly running a business, since this happened. It makes me just not want to be there. Then they wonder why people are going.....

Every time I said all this to them they just come back with 'you're wrong' and 'actually, you have to work the shifts as you are scheduled'


It is like talking to a wall.

Eoin

You're not asking them for anything though; you're not the one to has to negotiate. The only problem is that it sounds like the type of place that might act the arse with your final pay check and P45.

If you have some sort of cushion to tide you over a potential delay, then they don't have really have much to hold over you. How much wages would you be owed at the end of this week?

Triceratops Ballet

Something simillar happened to me last year in the same industry, and your manager sounds exactly the same as mine. She was the main reason I quit. I told her I was taking another job as my job there was having a negative effect on my mental health. She turned around and said we'll there'll need to be some negotiation on this notice period we need u for longer and that response just told me everything. It was tough because this woman bullied me, and I let her but that was the last straw.

Your only obligation in this is to yourself. You do what u need to do to look after yourself, just leave. If there is no benefit to you in staying the extra time then dont. If you stay this cow gets her way and you wont get anything for it, you probably wont even get a thanks.

work your notice and go and be free!! Congrats on the new job

1moo345

Eoin wrote: »

You're not asking them for anything though; you're not the one to has to negotiate. The only problem is that it sounds like the type of place that might act the arse with your final pay check and P45.

If you have some sort of cushion to tide you over a potential delay, then they don't have really have much to hold over you. How much wages would you be owed at the end of this week?

We get paid every two weeks and I just got paid today so if I worked my notice period I would be owed one week of wages. but I wouldn't get it till the week after I left if that makes sense.

You're right. I wrote a letter stating I was in agreement with the contract and the minimum notices and terms of employment act and that I wouldn't be staying after my notice. I don't know if it is too cocky to hand that in

Eoin

OK, so that's not too bad - at least it's not a month's wages they can hold over you.

The letter could be an option - don't be confrontational (yet). Just confirm your resignation as of date x and that as per the terms of your contract your last day is on date y as you're starting a new role on the following Monday, and that you'd appreciate your P45 and final pay check at their earliest convenience.

1moo345

Ok. I did try and confirm that in person today while being reasonable and she just tried to reason with me and said I can leave one day earlier than they suggested - MAYBE. Which is still 10 days and thus three over the requirement. Being too much of a coward to say no I said I would think about it. I need a wakeup call, how can I be this afraid of something so stupid

I know it is a only a few days to keep working but it is the principle of the fact I was literally put through abuse over the last ten months and even now it isnt ending when I try to leave onto something better. I have bent over backwards for them and done a really great job which I almost regret, because a reference will mean nothing by the looks of things and I shouldnt have put work in only to be messed around by them.

1moo345

When they say stuff back I just panic and back down....... Aim to stop doing this

Eoin

Just remember the advice below from earlier. As far as anyone is concerned, you are starting your new job on Monday so the decision isn't even in your hands.

mari2222 wrote: »

If necessary, convince yourself that your new employer needs you immediately following your last shift, and YOU MUST GO.
When your mind is convinced on this, there will be no shilly-shallying around extra shifts or whatever.......

newmug

I cannot believe you are entertaining any of this bull! Did I read earlier on that you were physically pushed? WTF? You have your new job lined up, you suspect this shower wont pay you your last weeks pay, so why are you holding back? I'd tell them F themselves and quit NOW. You wont get your last weeks pay anyway by the sound of things, so enjoy causing a scene! If I was you, I'd absolutely milk the opportunity to tell your boss exactly what you think of her. I'd have a blazing row in front of everyone, bring up every wrong they ever did to you, threaten to go legal or to the papers over every little misdemeanour they ever pulled, and top it all off with an open-handed slap in the face to whoever pushed you, as hard as you ever slapped somebody. I know I'll prob get yellow carded for posting all this, but FFS missus, it'll be worth it for your mental health alone if nothing else. I know that's what I'd do, I would not be 5% as tolerant with this shower as you are, fair play to you for your patience.

chops018

To be honest if I handed in my notice and I didn't need the reference from this place then I would work the 7 days your supposed to as per your notice and that's it. I would smile and laugh at whatever they said after that and say things like "yeah guman" etc. and walk off.

Anyway, I'd have a chat with the line manager (or whoever) at the end of my next shift and tell them thanks for the employment over the last year or whatever etc. but you're moving on and you handed in your notice on such a sate and you will be finishing when the 7 days are up. Apologise and say anything after that is not your concern.

As has been said, keep records of everything where possible.

Don't mention anything about your wages until it is not paid.

If it is a thing they don't pay you then phone them and tell them that you are going to speak to a Solicitor and obtain legal advice regarding your situation if your wages isn't resolved.


P.S. I saw in your posts above you said you had been pushed on occasion. If that happened to me then I would have been sacked by my reaction, not a chance I would let anyone get in any way physical with me, especially in the course of employment. Thankfully whenever I worked in retail or the service industry most of my superiors were dead on and a pleasure to approach and deal with. They would always accommodate me where possible. Of the one or two that did come along that would make life hard I would just say things like "yeah, no bother" etc. and continue with my work once they didn't get personal or abusive.

Triceratops Ballet

Legally you are totally within your rights here. Say you're finishing on the day you want to finish, and engage no more on the subject.

If she raises issues say you dont wish to discuss it further. Beyond your notice dat you have no obligation to her.

Legally they cannot withhold your money and or p45, and they know that. So don't worry about that. Even if they delay the p45 you can sort your tax out by calling the tax office and giving them your new employment details.

Thoie

newmug wrote: »

I cannot believe you are entertaining any of this bull! Did I read earlier on that you were physically pushed? WTF? You have your new job lined up, you suspect this shower wont pay you your last weeks pay, so why are you holding back? I'd tell them F themselves and quit NOW. You wont get your last weeks pay anyway by the sound of things, so enjoy causing a scene! If I was you, I'd absolutely milk the opportunity to tell your boss exactly what you think of her. I'd have a blazing row in front of everyone, bring up every wrong they ever did to you, threaten to go legal or to the papers over every little misdemeanour they ever pulled, and top it all off with an open-handed slap in the face to whoever pushed you, as hard as you ever slapped somebody. I know I'll prob get yellow carded for posting all this, but FFS missus, it'll be worth it for your mental health alone if nothing else. I know that's what I'd do, I would not be 5% as tolerant with this shower as you are, fair play to you for your patience.

While it may be tempting, I'd avoid causing a major scene like that. Ireland is too small a place, and you never know when you'll end up working with people who witness that in the future, and who will always remember it. Better have them remember you for being quiet and sure of yourself.

To those suggesting she tell them to f*** off for themselves, the problem with being bullied at work is that it sucks your self-confidence. It really is an awful feeling, and it's very hard to describe, and to stand up for yourself. It's a culmination of a thousand little things that whittle away at you. In the early days there's never anything big enough to stand up and say bugger this to. By the time it reaches that point, your confidence is gone, and you find yourself not saying it.

OP, don't worry about being cheeky in the letter - if you're not managing to say it to them straight, give them the letter and leave it at that. They can scream, kick, wail, appeal to your sense of kindness, threaten, whatever, but there's f*** all they can do. You're leaving on Tuesday (or whatever your last day is) and that's all there is to it.

If you ever saw Labyrinth, remember "You have no power over me" scene Chin up, it's just a few more days!

chops018

dottie_lottie wrote: »

Legally you are totally within your rights here. Say you're finishing on the day you want to finish, and engage no more on the subject.

Exactly this. You have to work 7 days notice, your contract doesn't state when this starts as you mentioned, so one would assume it starts the day (or next day at the latest) of when it is handed in to HR.

So at the end of this 7 days you are no longer employed or contracted to this company.

Gmol

Nothing to worry about you gave a letter with the required notice, if they say anything refer them to the letter, also email a further to my 1 weeks notice letter, would like to thank them for working there etc. It date stamps everything.

lapua20grain

as long as you have followed the process and furnished them with their minimum required notice period you can walk away on a monday tuesday or any day of the week. if you are being bullied as you say it is a different kettle of fish as you could go down the road of constructive dismissal but as been said before it's a small country, work your notice get the fcuk out of dodge and put it down to a bad experience if there are issues with your wages go to the small claims court well worth it. and issues with your P45 report to the revenue commissioners as all employers are legally obliged to furnish all leavers with one. best of luck in the new job:)

Eoin

They do of course have to pay the OP's wages, my point was that they can sit on it for a while out of spite.

I'm not sure about some of the vague legal terms being thrown around here. I'd be surprised if the small claims court handles employment issues, and constructive dismissal is not that easy to prove - the benefit of the doubt is with the employer, not the employee - unlike an unfair dismissal claim.

blindsider

Eoin is absolutely right.

Ignore Constructive Dismissal etc - it's not happening here. Lots of other things are...but not that. 1moo - the OP - has done really well in getting herself(?) a new job and is rightly being applauded here for that.

You've handed in your notice, and you're leaving on the appointed day. End. Of. Story.

You will then move on to a new job, where you won't allow anyone to take advantage of you.

1moo - you've got all the advice you need IMO - best of luck in the new job!

1moo345

blindsider wrote: »

Eoin is absolutely right.

Ignore Constructive Dismissal etc - it's not happening here. Lots of other things are...but not that. 1moo - the OP - has done really well in getting herself(?) a new job and is rightly being applauded here for that.

You've handed in your notice, and you're leaving on the appointed day. End. Of. Story.

You will then move on to a new job, where you won't allow anyone to take advantage of you.

1moo - you've got all the advice you need IMO - best of luck in the new job!

I am not planning to go down those routes to be honest as they are not worth the time or effort. I will just state I am leaving and after that nothing is my problem.

thanks so much everyone, you have been really helpful here

Thoie

1moo345 wrote: »

I will just state I am leaving and after that nothing is my problem.

thanks so much everyone, you have been really helpful here

Another day down - we're all rooting for you!

Gerry T

Just read through this thread and it's amazing what some employers will try. If your not able to deal with this can you ask someone in work to speak on your behalf---not alone, but while your there ? they maybe able to deliver the message your struggling to get across.

Secondly you should ask them to put in writing the finish date they expect you to work to and also the reason why the 7-day notice is not applicable. If they ask you why you want this, you don't have to say, but you can say you would prefer that communication is in writing. Don't say why. You would be well advised to have a witness to conversations if you think that option is available.

Are you due any holidays, you may not be entitled to take these but they should pay you for any.

Best of luck

1moo345

Ok I wrote a very explanatory letter explaining that although they want me to stay till the week after, I will be leaving on the day my notice expires as I am fully within my legal rights to do so. I stated my contract and also minimum notices act.

The manager was not around today so I left it on her desk. I have a feeling it will make things worse, but at this point I have stopped caring what they do or say to me. I am the one doing the right thing here, not them. I am in a much better mood today as I realise I don't owe them anything. I have always been a fantastic worker, courteous and never once complaining about having extra shifts for others, working on my days off and going some weeks with only one day free. I never complained that I would be kept hours after my shift was meant to end and I always went out of my way to please them. To do all of that and still not be accommodated when moving on (within guidelines!) is insulting. There are a few people that just went home and never showed up again, I could have done that and I didn't, but it seems I am getting punished more for honesty.

The replies in this thread helped me so much to have the guts, thank you all so so so much.

1moo345

Gerry T wrote: »

Are you due any holidays, you may not be entitled to take these but they should pay you for any.

I took my holidays last month as I was hoping to leave and it was easier for both parties to get it out of the way so at least I don't have to worry about that. I was off today so not sure how the letter was received, back in tomorrow so I will find out then.

the_syco

Three things;

Put your phone on silent the night of your last day, so when they do ring the next day, you can ignore it

Plan to do something on Wednesday, the day after you finish work. Plan something that you've been meaning to do for a while, and use it to celebrate the finishing of the job. It doesn't have to be big. Heck, it can be planting flowers in the back lawn.

Learn to notice any bullying directed towards you in future. Once you snip it in the bud, it should never get as bad again.

D Trent

the_syco wrote: »

Three things;

Put your phone on silent the night of your last day, so when they do ring the next day, you can ignore it

Plan to do something on Wednesday, the day after you finish work. Plan something that you've been meaning to do for a while, and use it to celebrate the finishing of the job. It doesn't have to be big. Heck, it can be planting flowers in the back lawn.

Learn to notice any bullying directed towards you in future. Once you
snip it in the bud, it should never get as bad again.

I see what you did there