New Graduate Salary

Greyian

Hey guys,

I'm a new software development graduate, just completed a H.Dip in Computing. I primarily studied C# and SQL, but also covered some HTML and CSS.
I previously completed a degree in Commerce International.

I've been offered a job and I have a meeting tomorrow to discuss salary and terms. As a new graduate, I don't have any prior experience of what sort of expectations I should have regarding salary. I was hoping someone here might be able to give me some sort of indication of what I should be hoping to receive.

Thanks guys!

Digital Society

Where is the job and what will you be doing?

Greyian

The job is in Dublin with a small-ish company (~10 staff). I will primarily be doing development, using C#. I've been informed that I'll be able to cycling between various projects in my first 3-6 months there, to find what I'm best suited for.

not1but4

For a small company I'd be looking at €25k. The bigger companies will pay around €30k.

Tar.Aldarion

I started on 25k + bonus nearly 2 years ago as a grad.

awec

not1but4 wrote: »

For a small company I'd be looking at €25k. The bigger companies will pay around €30k.

That seems very low. I would have thought 30k the minimum?

off.the.walls

Most grads get 25k for the first year progressing up to 30k in their second, happened with one of my mates taking a job at 3.

ev

Tar.Aldarion

awec wrote: »

That seems very low. I would have thought 30k the minimum?

Only one place I interviewed at at the time were 30k+, that's the likes of oracle, mircrosoft etc where you would be on 33/34k. It seemed to range from 20-28k apart from that.

The few k at the start really doesnt matter as your earnings can increase quite fast. He should worry more about the kind of job that he wants. My salary may have been 25k but I earned 35k in my first year. Also have to take into account all benefits offered, phone, pension, health insurance, bonus.

BeerWolf

awec wrote: »

That seems very low. I would have thought 30k the minimum?

Pretty standard for a Junior programmer.

maniac2000

I am a graduate nearly a year this september and I am receiving 33k as a graduate developer.. this seems to be along the lines of a lot of jobs offered to my grad class from DCU

not1but4

awec wrote: »

That seems very low. I would have thought 30k the minimum?

Not really most of my class started on that 3/4 years ago. Like Tar.Aldarion said its more about getting experience when you are starting off and to worry about salary later on.

While university teaches you all the tools you need for industry you still know relatively nothing and need to be trained up. For the 6-12 months you are costing the company way more money than what you are producing.

When I moved job recently and my wage went up 35%+ from what I started on, all from the experience I gained on my first job.

Digital Society

Are you all up in Dublin or where are you? Location would make a difference i assume.

Tar.Aldarion

I'm in Dublin.

The_B_Man

In my current place in Dublin, grad devs start on 32k, grad testers start on 28k.
Both get healthcare, pension, and bonuses (albeit, not lately!).

Digital Society

Anyone not in Dublin? Id like to hear examples of wages elsewhere like Cork and Galway.

Galway K9

Digital Society wrote: »

Anyone not in Dublin? Id like to hear examples of wages elsewhere like Cork and Galway.

Galway, big company 28 - 30 k.

c_man

Digital Society wrote: »

Anyone not in Dublin? Id like to hear examples of wages elsewhere like Cork and Galway.

In Galway, grads at my place start on 32k.

CaoimH_in

Surely this isn't sustainable? It's a really good starting wage relative to education...

Dave!

Depends on the size of the company I guess. I started at a really small web design place (3–4 people) on 23k.

Digital Society

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Surely this isn't sustainable? It's a really good starting wage relative to education...

Are you serious?

4 years of Computer Science and you think 30k is too high?

If you add that fact that most need high Points in the LC and a good grasp of Maths then your talking way more than 4 years of effort.

And what do you mean by relative to Education? Are you saying that Computer Science is easier than other courses?

shruikan2553

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Surely this isn't sustainable? It's a really good starting wage relative to education...

Demand. People want those with certain skills and need to make themselves look attractive as an employer.

leinsterdude

Seems very low, what does it get to in 4-5 years, when u got kids mortgage etc ...

CaoimH_in

But the OP did a 1 year conversion course.

conor.hogan.2

CaoimH_in wrote: »

But the OP did a 1 year conversion course.

A year, maybe 15 months on top of at least a 3 year degree.

Digital Society

CaoimH_in wrote: »

But the OP did a 1 year conversion course.

Ah i understand now. I thought you where saying Programming was easy compared to other professions.

Great thing about Programming is you can teach yourself to an employable level at home before you get anywhere near college or when your studying something else. Its down to the individual.

If he's offered a job he's surely as high a standard as the average graduate who does a direct Bachelors or at least fits the company profile of what they want. Id imagine a conversion course would hit the ground running and not ease into it like a 4 year degree. Also the people would generally be well used to college and studying methods and waste no time.

CaoimH_in

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

A year, maybe 15 months on top of at least a 3 year degree.

Spot on. Sorry.

Ah i understand now. I thought you where saying Programming was easy compared to other professions.

Great thing about Programming is you can teach yourself to an employable level at home before you get anywhere near college or when your studying something else. Its down to the individual.

If he's offered a job he's surely as high a standard as the average graduate who does a direct Bachelors or at least fits the company profile of what they want. Id imagine a conversion course would hit the ground running and not ease into it like a 4 year degree. Also the people would generally be well used to college and studying methods and waste no time.

I agree entirely. It's strange that programmers aren't seen as "professionals" in quite the same way as solicitors, architects etc. Or am I wrong?

barry181091

Generally around 30k for big companies. The likes of Intel will be 30 ish, I think IBM is closer to 35k (Could be wrong on that), M$ are 36 ive heard (Difficult to get into though!). Smaller companies will pay less generally.

I am starting in Belfast in September for a Graduate Technology program and am starting on 38k before bonus when converted to Euro (But its all down to the exchange rate!). This is the best I could find anyway.

God knows what Google and FB pay.

Digital Society

And how difficult is it to find work?

iwantthat

I just graduated with BSc hons.
Had several interviews and was got offered from 4 companies. 3 are big multinationals. 1 Irish owned multinational.
The lowest salary I was offered was 24k and the highest 35k. I settled for one with 32k. And that's not including the bonuses etc.

Mainly for java. I am based in Galway. One company who offered me the lowest was in Dublin. Rest here in West and Midlands.

I would say, depending on how confident you are at what you do, don't settle for less than 28k. Else keep looking.

And people posting crop about 1 year conversion... I have looked at the contents and know how intensive it can get during this one year... So don't under estimate the person's ability... I think it takes a lot more work and effort to do conversation courses...

My advice stand... Don't be selling yourself short... And don't rush into making decisions... Weigh all your options.

Galway K9

c_man wrote: »

In Galway, grads at my place start on 32k.

Cisco is only place i know that pay 32k at start.

Galway K9

If looking for a Graduate position , Give me a PM.

CaoimH_in

Next question: how many hours a week, honestly?

Galway K9

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Next question: how many hours a week, honestly?

LOL. When we find out well let ya know

My contract says 36 i think, but there are days where there's a lot of pressure for deadlines and your social life may take a hit. Generally for me, its 9 - 5.30, but as i said you will have alot of those days that require your time.

iwantthat

Galway K9 wrote: »

Cisco is only place i know that pay 32k at start.

Thats not true. I am a recent grad and just got a job elsewhere at 32k

red_bairn

I finished my conversion course at UCD in Dec but the graduation isn't until Sept. I have a paid internship for 3 months but I'm looking about for a permanent graduate position.

imitation

The more I see these threads the more I think the real important question isn't what you start on, but what will you be on after 5 years, what will you have learned, will you be doing the same old ding dong or will you constantly being learning new things.

If the jobs a stepping stone thats going to teach you what you want and is unique I wouldn't sweat it too much about the salary. If you think you might stick with the one company it gives you a better starting point to have a salary.

CaoimH_in

Sound advice. It does feel like, whatever about the complicated skill-set, that if you can jump to 25k-30k after a difficult one year conversion it sounds like it can't last. After all it is only one year.

Keep upskilling seems to be the name of the game.

yes there

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Sound advice. It does feel like, whatever about the complicated skill-set, that if you can jump to 25k-30k after a difficult one year conversion it sounds like it can't last. After all it is only one year.

Keep upskilling seems to be the name of the game.

Its obvious from your comments that you dont have a clue what you are on about so please refrain from making uneducated assumptions. ICT sector is booming and will continue to boom and you would know this if you were even moderately interested in tech. Average starting salary is the 30k mark. If you are confident to go straight into contracting you can earn alot more.

lilconventgirl

Looking for a grad position preferably in west. Just completed conversion course.
Most recent interview was with international company, had 3interviews and thought the position was mine but now I'm back to the drawing board again.
Any ideas

Galway K9

iwantthat wrote: »

Thats not true. I am a recent grad and just got a job elsewhere at 32k

Are you sure you're a programmer look at my logic.

I said Cisco is only place " I " know not the only place.

Galway K9

lilconventgirl wrote: »

Looking for a grad position preferably in west. Just completed conversion course.
Most recent interview was with international company, had 3interviews and thought the position was mine but no

w I'm back to the drawing board again.
Any ideas

Send me a pm.

Digital Society

CaoimH_in wrote: »

Sound advice. It does feel like, whatever about the complicated skill-set, that if you can jump to 25k-30k after a difficult one year conversion it sounds like it can't last. After all it is only one year.

Keep upskilling seems to be the name of the game.

You say 25-30k as if its a lot more than it is. A person in a corner shop with 0 skills could earn 20. So your saying 5 years in college doesnt deserve an extra 5k a year on top of a 0 skill job.

Programming is brutal difficult. People who are good at it have a passion for it but its still brutal difficult and takes a highly intelligent person to be good at it.

Also as a programmer you would be upskilling your whole career. Every couple of years there nearly a huge shift in skill requirements.

counterpointaud

Started on 32k in a dev role with a multi-national with strong Dublin presence a few weeks ago.

Elessar

Have grads here found it difficult or easy to get jobs?

punk_one82

Elessar wrote: »

Have grads here found it difficult or easy to get jobs?

I had 3 job offers before 3 months before I did my finals. Each job offered >30k. I'm not sure if that's representative of most grads but for me it couldn't have been any easier.

The main thing is to just apply for lots of the jobs and treat each interview as if you really want the job. Even if you don't get the offers, the interview experience is great and will set you up nicely for the next one.

Digital Society

punk_one82 wrote: »

I had 3 job offers before 3 months before I did my finals. Each job offered >30k. I'm not sure if that's representative of most grads but for me it couldn't have been any easier.

The main thing is to just apply for lots of the jobs and treat each interview as if you really want the job. Even if you don't get the offers, the interview experience is great and will set you up nicely for the next one.

location?

not1but4

Digital Society wrote: »

You say 25-30k as if its a lot more than it is. A person in a corner shop with 0 skills could earn 20. So your saying 5 years in college doesnt deserve an extra 5k a year on top of a 0 skill job.

Programming is brutal difficult. People who are good at it have a passion for it but its still brutal difficult and takes a highly intelligent person to be good at it.

Also as a programmer you would be upskilling your whole career. Every couple of years there nearly a huge shift in skill requirements.

I know you're not saying this specifically but I don't think spending 4 years at university automatically means you can demand a salary of more than €25k. Like I said in my previous post, most fresh graduates don't know a whole lot and require a lot of hand holding. It's only when they have a few years experience can they start demanding a higher salary.

Aswerty

I think if you have a decent 4 year Computer Science degree and an internship under your belt you're going to find landing graduate job easier than some other folks. I'd also expect the larger salaries to be going to these graduates due to a higher level of demand. Development jobs are also being competed for by those coming from less relevent academic backgrounds and I expect they will find it harder to get their foot in the door and thus their salary may not be as high.

As long as a company isn't taking the piss with a graduate salary then +/- a few K is not going to make a difference in the long run.

TimeToShine

Digital Society wrote: »

You say 25-30k as if its a lot more than it is. A person in a corner shop with 0 skills could earn 20. So your saying 5 years in college doesnt deserve an extra 5k a year on top of a 0 skill job.

Programming is brutal difficult. People who are good at it have a passion for it but its still brutal difficult and takes a highly intelligent person to be good at it.

Also as a programmer you would be upskilling your whole career. Every couple of years there nearly a huge shift in skill requirements.

I code quite a bit and I find this statement ludicrous. Similar to how maths used to be treated at LC level, programming has a stigma attached to it that it certainly doesn't deserve. It looks significantly more complicated than it is and most definitely does not take "a highly intelligent" person to excel in the field. At the risk of sounding offensive "code monkeys" are a dime a dozen, and quite frankly I find it very surprising that someone who actually codes or intends to do so for a living thinks it's fair to apply the label "brutally difficult". If anything, the longer I code the more surprised I am at how basic it is and I really think it should be taught in schools to remove this stigma it has, namely how movies portray it and the fact that it's for extremely smart "nerds".

OP, I think 25-27k for a smaller company is one of the better approximations. 30-34k for the bigger corporations sounds right. I think you'll learn a good deal more starting small and not worrying about the money initially. As far as any company is concerned you're a liability for the first six months or so needing training and guidance. As you progress you can start commanding a bigger salary. The smaller more personal companies will beat the corporations in this regard 9 times out of 10.

punk_one82

Digital Society wrote: »

location?

Dublin. Also worth noting I had 17 months internship experience and 5 months part-time work with one of the companies I interned for.

Elvis_Presley

What kind of salary do people expect someone with my background could get?

BEng in Civil Eng (NUI Galway), MSc in High Performance Computing (University of Edinburgh) and PhD in Computational Science (University of Glasgow). Strong mathematical background, have contributed to open source projects (C++), several publications and done some consulting.