Game of Thrones A General Commentary (BOOK & SHOW SPOILERS)

Generic Dreadhead

So I'm probably going to be lamblasted for this being one of my only posts on this forum but i find Boards to be a great place for open debate.

So I'd likely to make a couple of complaints, I'm sure a lot of these are nothing new, but there are a LOT of threads with a LOT posts so I couldn't read them all.

I watched the 1st series and loved it, afterwards going and starting the series of books, which took me the bones of a year to finish. I found the 1st book and 1st series to be very alike and it started to deviate more and more as time went on (which is understandable as the show is a different being to the books).

But I have to say after watching last nights finale, I could not give less of a **** about 90% of the characters. ESPECIALLY the Stark children.

I'm actually aghast at whats going to be in Season 5 and 6. All those Greyjoys and Sand Snakes, like seriously.

I'm going to throw petrol on the fire and say the George RR Martin is one of the WORST fantasy/heroic fiction writers I've ever read, 2nd only to maybe Terry Goodkind

He doesn't know how to end a chapter or book without a "shock killing" and over and over he writes himself into a corner and ends up bringing characters back after supposedly killing them off,

Cateyln Stark and The Onion Knight amongst others

I actually found myself bored and disinterested during season 4, and it's a shame as looking back on the 1st 2 seasons in particular it was a different story.

I just found the books from the 4th onwards to be a meandering mess.

I also don't buy Danerys… I don't buy her motives, I don't buy her character, I don't buy her as an actress (with that smug kind of half smile / half thoughtful face). Why is still even bothering to reference Westeros, she seems happy out in Mereen.

The charters are given 1 main goal and they never achieve it. It's a series build on dashed hopes.

These are just some of my thoughts, and I know i'll probably get a lot of "oh if you don't like it, don't watch it" half-a**sed 'responses' for this post but I wanted to put these ideas to people who have both watched the show and read the books (and IDEALLY have read other fantasy fiction) as everyone I know has only watched the shows.

Witcher

Cormac... wrote: »

These are just some of my thoughts, and I know i'll probably get a lot of "oh if you don't like it, don't watch it" half-a**sed 'responses' for this post

If you don't like it don't watch it...or read the books:pac:

But honestly, if you don't like it why are you bothering with it at all?

If I don't like a book etc. I don't cry about it, I just don't read it.

Generic Dreadhead

Blay wrote: »

If you don't like it don't watch it...or read the books:pac:

But honestly, if you don't like it why are you bothering with it?

Would it not have been easier to just type "1st"?

I take it you've never seen something you liked become something you didn't like and became annoyed/upset/disgruntled/frustrated by it?

Dyr

tbh I had read the books before the series came out and by the time I got to a dance of dragons I was completely indifferent to it all, the endless procession of new characters replacing the ranks of the fallen did me in. I watch the TV show and enjoy it for what its worth

The epic fantasy novel series is the wrong formula for what he's trying to do. That said, I do like the lore and general world that he's built. It would be great for a series of novellas or such.


I also thought that Fevre Dream was a cracking little novel

nibtrix

Being aghast that the next season is going to have lots of Greyjoys and Sand Snakes is rather silly, seeing as thet's what happened in the books as well! While the show has made some small changes and skipped a lot of background detail, they certainly haven't changed the focus of the books wholesale, the storylines are roughly the same.

I agree that the later books become rather meandering but I think this is where the show does a great job, tightening up storylines and moving the action on.

Witcher

Cormac... wrote: »

Would it not have been easier to just type "1st"?

I take it you've never seen something you liked become something you didn't like and became annoyed/upset/disgruntled/frustrated by it?

It's not that you don't like where the series HAS gone, it seems that you don't like the series full stop. You hate 90% of the characters by your own admissio including Dany, all the Stark children, the Greyjoys and the SS.

If you're that set against it just stop reading because if you hate 90% of the characters that isn't going to change over the next 2 books. Save yourself the money.

Generic Dreadhead

I agree with both the above. But thing is, by the time he introduces characters, I'm already invested in others and could not care less about the Greyjoys or the Snakes. It's just a case of throwing enough characters at a wall and seeing what sticks IMO (aghast was maybe not the right choice of words, more maybe "numb"). I like how the show is "tighter" then the books though, it's why I still enjoy it in ways, I'd actually find it tought to bring myself to read his next 2 or 3 books TBH. 3 years is a long time to wait especially if he goes the whole "Spilt-book" router again which he's hinted at

Generic Dreadhead

Blay wrote: »

It's not that you don't like where the series HAS gone, it seems that you don't like the series full stop. You hate 90% of the characters by your own admissio including Dany, all the Stark children, the Greyjoys and the SS.

If you're that set against it just stop reading because if you hate 90% of the characters that isn't going to change over the next 2 books. Save yourself the money.

If you're going to Quote me, do it right, I don't hate them, I'm ambivalent towards them. Quotes are a great tool when you actually quote what the person is saying and not casting your own opinion over it like a impartial net

Witcher

Cormac... wrote: »

If you're going to Quote me, do it right, I don't hate them, I'm ambivalent towards them. Quotes are a great tool when you actually quote what the person is saying and not casting your own opinion over it like a impartial net

'I could not give less of a **** about 90% of the characters' is not ambivalence.

Generic Dreadhead

Blay wrote: »

'I could not give less of a **** about 90% of the characters' is not ambivalence.

I don't hate, I don't love them, I don't really care either way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalence

Witcher

Cormac... wrote: »

I don't hate, I don't love them, I don't really care either way

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambivalence

'Ambivalence is a state of having simultaneous, conflicting reactions towards some object', you're not conflicted, you said straight out that you 'could not give less of a ****'...real internal conflict there:pac:

ArmaniJeanss

Seven Kingdoms innit.
Our tale started with the Starks of the North and The Lannisters of the Westerlands, no reason why it has to end with them.

Perhaps he's always intended his story to be about how the peoples obsessed with blood lines, birthright and marriages were ultimately conquered by the cleverly uninvolved Skagosians who only get going in Book7.

I'm cautiously content for him to tell his story the way he wants.

DvB

I'd be happy for him to simply get to the end at this stage without dragging the ar*e out of it as per ADWD.... as the story nears ending he simply wont be able to throw new characters into the fray, he'll need to close it out with the ones he has left standing sooner rather than later given his meandering writing style in the more recent books.

I have high hopes that the TV series will cut through the less interesting drawn out story arcs & will cut to the chase, IMo it will have to or people will lose interest & viewing figures will drop.

Generic Dreadhead

DvB wrote: »

I have high hopes that the TV series will cut through the less interesting drawn out story arcs & will cut to the chase, IMo it will have to or people will lose interest & viewing figures will drop.

Based on what we know to be covered thus far in the books, and the fact its likely there will be 2 or 3 more (where 2 of the 3 are a 2 parter) and whats been covered in the TV show. How many series do you think it could run for.
I always find from recent examples that a show with over 7 seasons starts to have serious dips in quality and that only truly iconic shows last for 9 seasons or beyond. I'd really really like to see this all wrapped up by season 7.

BUT, and this is a big one, will we reach a point, and I think we will given the current timeframes, where the books and the shows are at the same point or where the TV show is waiting for the next book. That would be a showstopper. Imagine if at the end of Season 6 we were up to date (and I hope so as the next 2 seasons of the show will be containing the least interesting content from the books) that we need a book to be released to start season 7. Or if the show had to take a 1 year break. That would be a terrible thing IMHO

nibtrix

Th've already said that they will go ahead of the books I think. GRR Martin has told them the outline of the rest of the story so they can finish the series if necessary. At the slow speed he releases books we could be waiting 20 years for him to finish the series!

Nody

nibtrix wrote: »

Th've already said that they will go ahead of the books I think. GRR Martin has told them the outline of the rest of the story so they can finish the series if necessary. At the slow speed he releases books we could be waiting 20 years for him to finish the series!

But how much would it cost them in viewers? I know I'd not watch beyond the books simply because I find the books to be far superior to the show (and hence I prefer to maximize my enjoyment by reading the books first) and I doubt I'd be alone in that stance.

DvB

If the series passes the books out theres always the chance that GRRM will change the story for the future book releases depending on how happy he is with the TV 'ending', personally I dont think I'd mind that as I kind of treat them as 'almost' separate entities at this stage.

FWIW, i reckon they'll have 7 seasons, 8 tops if they can get a decent ending that GRRM signs off on & IMO will do this long before the book ending is revealed (if it ever is) I cant see the show surviving a lengthy break to accommodate the books so it'll definitely finish up before the books are published, that's a given at this stage.

Mickeroo

I thought they said it will be 7 seasons?

Either way I'm ok with it, I think the show is better than the books overall anyway.

username123

Nody wrote: »

But how much would it cost them in viewers? I know I'd not watch beyond the books simply because I find the books to be far superior to the show (and hence I prefer to maximize my enjoyment by reading the books first) and I doubt I'd be alone in that stance.

This is just my opinion but I think that non book readers far outweigh book readers in numbers of viewers.

Book readers who will stop watching if the show passes the books are a smaller number again.

I'm a book reader watching with a non book reader and I discuss it in work with 3 non book reader viewers and 1 book reader non viewer. My non book reader husband is not going to stop watching because the tv show catches up with the books, and I'm not going to go into a different room to avoid it.

I actually don't mind how the story is delivered, I just want to know what happens. I'll still read it even if the tv show gives the ending first.

Daith

Nody wrote: »

But how much would it cost them in viewers? I know I'd not watch beyond the books simply because I find the books to be far superior to the show (and hence I prefer to maximize my enjoyment by reading the books first) and I doubt I'd be alone in that stance.

Be fairly tough for book readers who don't want to watch the show to avoid spoilers tbh.

Generic Dreadhead

Daith wrote: »

Be fairly tough for book readers who don't want to watch the show to avoid spoilers tbh.

It's fairly tough to make it to 1pm Tuesday and Avoid Spoilers of any kind.

Can I ask....many of the people who have read the books and "throughly enjoyed them", more-so even than the show, to the point they'd wait to watch the show till the books catch up.... Is this the 1st fantasy fiction series you've read? Cause honestly, GRRM is NOT that great a writer to warrant a prolonged break from the show. The books were only OK to a point then the got boring, that's my opinion. But the show can still be enjoyable in it's own right.

Sleepy

I LOVE the books but won't bother avoiding the show simply because there's no way that I'll be able to avoid spoilers.

I'm something of a controversial fantasy fan in that I consider Lord of the Rings to be so badly written that even as a 14 year old, I didn't bother getting past about 150 pages. ASOIAF wouldn't have been the first fantasy series I read but perhaps the second or third. I've got the Malazan series in my "to read pile" so can't contrast with that but of the fantasy series I've read to date, ASOIAF is the only one I've ever considered worthy of a re-read. I recognise the huge pace shift between the 3rd and 4th books is a big problem for many and would love the chance to replace GRRM's editor on TWOW to avoid the over-use of "Nuncle" and "Nipples on a Breastplate" of the most recent two books in the series but honestly, I think most of the hate for AFFC and ADWD comes from those who speed read them (as I did on first read) looking for the high paced action of the earlier books (which incidentally, I think we'll see a return to in TWOW).

username123

Sleepy wrote: »

I'm something of a controversial fantasy fan in that I consider Lord of the Rings to be so badly written that even as a 14 year old, I didn't bother getting past about 150 pages.

Lol, this made me laugh. I found LOTR really tough going first time I read it. It only improved for me with age and reading experience, I think the first time I read it I wasn't ready for the wordiness of it. I do appreciate it as a masterpiece now though, but in much the same way I appreciate Shakespeare, a hard slog but worth it!

Sleepy

It fails the same style test as Joyce does for me: if you need a second page to complete a sentence, you've failed at your use of the English language.

username123

Sleepy wrote: »

It fails the same style test as Joyce does for me: if you need a second page to complete a sentence, you've failed at your use of the English language.

I'm not usually a fan of having to do work to get the story out but I'll make an exception for Tolkien

Mickeroo

Ah LOTR is very well written imo, the first few chapters are a slog but once they leave the Shire, and particularly when they leave Rivendell it's as gripping as any book I've read.

Tolkien had his eagles and Martin has his last minute Cavalry, they're not too far apart on some things :P

I think Martin is a decent but not great writer, his books are deeply layered in terms of character and world building but I read them for the content rather than the prose. His style comes off as pretty trashy at times imo.

username123

It's the wait between books that's the killer!

Sometimes I wish I only came across book series AFTER they are finished.

I'm waiting on the next one from GRRM, another from Peter Brett, I spent years of my life waiting for Stephen King to finish the Dark Tower series........

And of course I'm always afraid that either I'll die or the author will die before I get the rest of the story!

Mickeroo

username123 wrote: »

It's the wait between books that's the killer!

Sometimes I wish I only came across book series AFTER they are finished.

I'm waiting on the next one from GRRM, another from Peter Brett, I spent years of my life waiting for Stephen King to finish the Dark Tower series........

And of course I'm always afraid that either I'll die or the author will die before I get the rest of the story!

Dark Tower is high on my "to read" list. Most series I've read have been finished before I went near them, asoiaf and Harry Potter are the only ones I can think of where I had to wait for books! Shame Martin isn't as prolific as Rowling!

Apparently Robin Hobb is doing another farseer book, but the last one had a pretty rounded ending with very few loose ends so the wait won't be bad for that one

Sleepy

I think your second last sentence says it all for me Mickeroo.

When I think of great prose writers I think of the likes of Douglas Coupland, Michael Herr, A.S. Byatt, Audrey Niffenegger etc. TBH, I've yet to come across a fantasy writer that writes beautifully. Martin has his moments (Tower of Joy dream is beautifully written) but has some real flaws... the closest I can think of is Anne Rice though that may be the power of nostalgia as much as anything else.

I may yet give LOTR another chance as it was the first fantasy book I ever tried to read and, at the time, I thought it was so bad I ignored the genre for over a decade.

Mickeroo

Sleepy wrote: »

I may yet give LOTR another chance as it was the first fantasy book I ever tried to read and, at the time, I thought it was so bad I ignored the genre for over a decade.

Similar to username123 I failed to read it the first time I tried as I was too young to have the patience for it (about 14). I think I read it when I was about 16 or 17 (and again in my early 20's after the first film came out). I found it easier after reading The Hobbit first and then reading the 3 LOTR books separately, 2nd time I read it I just read the omnibus.

If you really struggle just skip the unexpected party chapter tbh!

username123

Oh yeah, I recommend The Hobbit first!

TimeToShine

Wheel of Time, Dark Tower and LOTR are written to a significantly higher standard than ASOIAF.

LOTR also had a more complex world. What GRRM has done, however, is successfully combine modern politics with many ubiquitous elements of the fantasy series. The result is a sprawling world which appears to nearly any type of TV/book fan. The next two books will tell us just how good he is; whether he has only the broad strokes and is hoping to wing the rest or whether it has indeed been an intricate, archaically woven story from start to finish.

In HP's case, I am confident that an informed ghost writer could have taken over for books 6 and 7 onwards and produced just as good an ending if not better than JKR did. Whether or not this would be the case with ASOIAF is debatable right now but time will tell.

username123

I just couldn't get into Wheel of Time. Read the first book and gave up after that.

ArmaniJeanss

TimeToShine wrote: »

Wheel of Time, Dark Tower and LOTR are written to a significantly higher standard than ASOIAF.

LOTR also had a more complex world. What GRRM has done, however, is successfully combine modern politics with many ubiquitous elements of the fantasy series. The result is a sprawling world which appears to nearly any type of TV/book fan. The next two books will tell us just how good he is; whether he has only the broad strokes and is hoping to wing the rest or whether it has indeed been an intricate, archaically woven story from start to finish.

I never saw anything complex in LOTR at all.
Wondering if I missed some subtleties in the trilogy that I read, but it seemed to be the ultimate 'These are the good guys, and here are the bad guys' book, chock full of single dimensional characters with zero depth, most of them completely interchangeable as they have little unique about them. So limited was Tolkiens writing that we don't even get an insight, a line of dialogue even, from the main antagonist Sauron.
Absolutely hated it.

TimeToShine

The amount of background work Tolkien put into his series is remarkable. I mean he even wrote a language!

Let me put it this way. You'd never get a "is X a good fighter/battle commander" debacle in LoTR because Tolkien would have a full manuscript detailing every fight/movement in the battle that happened.

Sleepy

TimeToShine wrote: »

Wheel of Time, Dark Tower and LOTR are written to a significantly higher standard than ASOIAF.

WoT better written? Are you kidding me? I enjoyed the story for but my chief gripe with the books were the poor writing... the prose improved markedly when Sanderson took over and he's far from a literary great.

Dark Tower is on my to-read list but while I'll probably give LOTR another chance, it's low down the pile based on my last experience of it (and the fact that I found large parts of the movies tedious in the extreme).

username123

Can I just say to all of you who have a The Dark Tower on your must read list, I enjoyed it more than ASOIAF, LOTR, more than ANYTHING I've ever read! The quality does go up and down, the first book is a slightly different style and years pass between the first books and the rest of them, King goes through drug addiction, comes out the other side, loses his way and writes some tripe for a while, but they really really work and best of all, a great ending!

I love them! The first line captured me "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed".

I need you guys to read them so we can discuss who should play who in the tv show

Washington Irving

Sleepy wrote: »

It fails the same style test as Joyce does for me: if you need a second page to complete a sentence, you've failed at your use of the English language.

Tolkien worked at the Oxford English Dictionary, was reader of English at the University of Leeds, was a professor of English language and literature at Oxford, was an external examiner for UCD, and translated Beowulf, the Book of Jonah, and Pearl, among others.

He arguably had a better grasp on the English language than anyone alive at the time.

Fair enough if you didn't like his writing style but to claim he "failed at (his) use of the English language" is crazy.

Mickeroo wrote: »

asoiaf and Harry Potter are the only ones I can think of where I had to wait for books! Shame Martin isn't as prolific as Rowling!

Saw this the other day, thought it was interesting:

GerB40

username123 wrote: »

Can I just say to all of you who have a The Dark Tower on your must read list, I enjoyed it more than ASOIAF, LOTR, more than ANYTHING I've ever read! The quality does go up and down, the first book is a slightly different style and years pass between the first books and the rest of them, King goes through drug addiction, comes out the other side, loses his way and writes some tripe for a while, but they really really work and best of all, a great ending!

I love them! The first line captured me "The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed".

I need you guys to read them so we can discuss who should play who in the tv show

After reading this post I started reading The Gunslinger. I'm just 127 pages into it and I'm very intrigued.. Whenever "The man in black" is mentioned I always think of Johnny Cash but I reckon that will change.
I still don't really get where or when it's set (Hey Jude??) but I'm fascinated by it and will plough through. Thanks for the recommendation..

Edit: Half three in the morning and I just finished The Gunslinger. Great book.. I love the world it's set in (even if I still don't fully get it) and the mix of real life history and mysterious fantasy is enough to keep me interested in the series.

TimeToShine

Sleepy wrote: »

WoT better written? Are you kidding me? I enjoyed the story for but my chief gripe with the books were the poor writing... the prose improved markedly when Sanderson took over and he's far from a literary great.

Dark Tower is on my to-read list but while I'll probably give LOTR another chance, it's low down the pile based on my last experience of it (and the fact that I found large parts of the movies tedious in the extreme).

It wasn't great and as you say did indeed improve quite a bit but it's still better written than ASOIAF in my opinion. "As useful as nipples on a breastplate" has to be the worst analogy in the history of fantasy writing. You don't have to be a literary great to beat that.

I'm surprised so many of you aren't LoTR fans but each to their own.

username123

GerB40 wrote: »

After reading this post I started reading The Gunslinger. I'm just 127 pages into it and I'm very intrigued.. Whenever "The man in black" is mentioned I always think of Johnny Cash but I reckon that will change.
I still don't really get where or when it's set (Hey Jude??) but I'm fascinated by it and will plough through. Thanks for the recommendation..

Edit: Half three in the morning and I just finished The Gunslinger. Great book.. I love the world it's set in (even if I still don't fully get it) and the mix of real life history and mysterious fantasy is enough to keep me interested in the series.

When you get to the end of The Wastelands, pause and think how it would be if you had to wait 6 years for the next one, like I did!

Delighted you're hooked, it gets weirder!

Sleepy

TimeToShine wrote: »

It wasn't great and as you say did indeed improve quite a bit but it's still better written than ASOIAF in my opinion. "As useful as nipples on a breastplate" has to be the worst analogy in the history of fantasy writing. You don't have to be a literary great to beat that.

I actually rather like it the first time I read it, it's the over-use of the phrase that makes it painful (akin to the skirt smoothing and braid tugging in WOT).

TBH, I always assumed it was initially, at least, a dig at the Clooney batsuit.

GerB40

username123 wrote: »

When you get to the end of The Wastelands, pause and think how it would be if you had to wait 6 years for the next one, like I did!

Delighted you're hooked, it gets weirder!

Right I'm finished the second book and I was wondering could we start a thread about The Dark Tower that doesn't give spoilers about books that haven't been read.. I'd love that but as I've only read the first two I'm not sure if that's possible..
I don't know anyone who has read the books but I'm dying to talk about them.
Plus I don't wanna search boards to see if this exists already for fear of being spoiled..
Watcha think??

username123

GerB40 wrote: »

Right I'm finished the second book and I was wondering could we start a thread about The Dark Tower that doesn't give spoilers about books that haven't been read.. I'd love that but as I've only read the first two I'm not sure if that's possible..
I don't know anyone who has read the books but I'm dying to talk about them.
Plus I don't wanna search boards to see if this exists already for fear of being spoiled..
Watcha think??

Yeah I'm on for that. Where could we have it?

Sleepy

SciFi & Fantasy Forum > http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=93

bnt

I've watched the series to the end of S4, and am 1/3 of the way through the first book. I'm probably going to read as far as I can, beyond the TV series.

The main "takeaway" I've got from the book so far is just how young many of the main characters are, and how much growing up they have to do in a hurry. The series underplays this aspect, since the actors are mostly older than their characters in the book. For example, Daenerys is just thirteen when she's (basically) sold to the Dothraki, and finds out she's pregnant on her fourteenth birthday. Jon Snow heads to the Wall at the age of fourteen, while Robb finds himself Lord of Winterfell at the same age.

Bran is only seven at the start, when he witnesses the beheading of a deserter. Sansa is eleven when she's betrothed to Joffrey, with the plan to marry at thirteen when he will be fourteen. Arya is about nine when she sees her friend, the butcher boy, butchered by the Hound, and both girls aren't much older when they see their father beheaded and her adventures start not long after that.

You really have to wonder what this is doing to the characters as they grow older. They're not going to be normal, are they? I don't know what happens to Arya after the end of TV season 4, but I'm going to read the books to find out.

nyarlothothep

Spoilers ahead...

Ok, I've just watched episode 8 and I had to post this as it was just overboard imo. I could handle the Red Wedding, it was horrible, granted but it was Shakespearean also, but this...this was just grotesque, disgusting and for the instant gratification twitter heads. Why, how could you kill Oberyn like that? I mean The Mountain is a monster, not just metaphorically, he is a freak of nature, a force of destruction and horror, if you've read the books the descriptions evoke this a lot, and I was totally rooting for Oberyn. The speech he gives to Tyrion saying he will be his champion and the way it's delivered, you cant help but want him to win. And then the comedy-drinking before the fight, this guy is cool, he's going to kill this murdering, raping giant dickhead and Cersei isn't going to get her way for once. And then, then he gets pulled down on a sneak move due to gloating a bit too much and not only do his eyes get gouged out (throughout that whole interval I was waiting for him to at least deliver another death blow to The Mountain) but his head has to fcking explode. And not only that, we hear The Mountain deliver his stinging retort as Oberyn is forced to hear, realising in utter agony that his entire life's mission and the honour of his family has been thrown away. What the ****?!

This is like that South Park episode where Indiana Jones gets raped, that's pretty much what I felt this was like for the viewer. It was wrong on every level. And this is my problem with GoT, it's basically treating the audience like Reek, we are punished repeatedly, kicked in the teeth, tortured and they use this gimmick of gratuitous and horrible death scenes for the few good characters in the show to keep us hooked. Well I'm watching the next 2 episodes but I'm not going to enjoy them, I certainly haven't enjoyed this one at all, I will watch them with a fck you attitude to the narrative because it just seems like the evil characters are getting a free pass in this series to do anything they want, they triumph everywhere and often just by pure luck. Sansa's apparent transformation, if it's genuine, was also another sign of this gimmicky approach. Oh yeah, and The Hound's "flea bite" wound, what are the odds it's going to end up killing him just like Khal Drogo?

GerB40

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Spoilers ahead...

Ok, I've just watched episode 8 and I had to post this as it was just overboard imo. I could handle the Red Wedding, it was horrible, granted but it was Shakespearean also, but this...this was just grotesque, disgusting and for the instant gratification twitter heads. Why, how could you kill Oberyn like that? I mean The Mountain is a monster, not just metaphorically, he is a freak of nature, a force of destruction and horror, if you've read the books the descriptions evoke this a lot, and I was totally rooting for Oberyn. The speech he gives to Tyrion saying he will be his champion and the way it's delivered, you cant help but want him to win. And then the comedy-drinking before the fight, this guy is cool, he's going to kill this murdering, raping giant dickhead and Cersei isn't going to get her way for once. And then, then he gets pulled down on a sneak move due to gloating a bit too much and not only do his eyes get gouged out (throughout that whole interval I was waiting for him to at least deliver another death blow to The Mountain) but his head has to fcking explode. And not only that, we hear The Mountain deliver his stinging retort as Oberyn is forced to hear, realising in utter agony that his entire life's mission and the honour of his family has been thrown away. What the ****?!

This is like that South Park episode where Indiana Jones gets raped, that's pretty much what I felt this was like for the viewer. It was wrong on every level. And this is my problem with GoT, it's basically treating the audience like Reek, we are punished repeatedly, kicked in the teeth, tortured and they use this gimmick of gratuitous and horrible death scenes for the few good characters in the show to keep us hooked. Well I'm watching the next 2 episodes but I'm not going to enjoy them, I certainly haven't enjoyed this one at all, I will watch them with a fck you attitude to the narrative because it just seems like the evil characters are getting a free pass in this series to do anything they want, they triumph everywhere and often just by pure luck. Sansa's apparent transformation, if it's genuine, was also another sign of this gimmicky approach. Oh yeah, and The Hound's "flea bite" wound, what are the odds it's going to end up killing him just like Khal Drogo?

Have you read the books?

TimeToShine

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Spoilers ahead...

Ok, I've just watched episode 8 and I had to post this as it was just overboard imo. I could handle the Red Wedding, it was horrible, granted but it was Shakespearean also, but this...this was just grotesque, disgusting and for the instant gratification twitter heads. Why, how could you kill Oberyn like that? I mean The Mountain is a monster, not just metaphorically, he is a freak of nature, a force of destruction and horror, if you've read the books the descriptions evoke this a lot, and I was totally rooting for Oberyn. The speech he gives to Tyrion saying he will be his champion and the way it's delivered, you cant help but want him to win. And then the comedy-drinking before the fight, this guy is cool, he's going to kill this murdering, raping giant dickhead and Cersei isn't going to get her way for once. And then, then he gets pulled down on a sneak move due to gloating a bit too much and not only do his eyes get gouged out (throughout that whole interval I was waiting for him to at least deliver another death blow to The Mountain) but his head has to fcking explode. And not only that, we hear The Mountain deliver his stinging retort as Oberyn is forced to hear, realising in utter agony that his entire life's mission and the honour of his family has been thrown away. What the ****?!

This is like that South Park episode where Indiana Jones gets raped, that's pretty much what I felt this was like for the viewer. It was wrong on every level. And this is my problem with GoT, it's basically treating the audience like Reek, we are punished repeatedly, kicked in the teeth, tortured and they use this gimmick of gratuitous and horrible death scenes for the few good characters in the show to keep us hooked. Well I'm watching the next 2 episodes but I'm not going to enjoy them, I certainly haven't enjoyed this one at all, I will watch them with a fck you attitude to the narrative because it just seems like the evil characters are getting a free pass in this series to do anything they want, they triumph everywhere and often just by pure luck. Sansa's apparent transformation, if it's genuine, was also another sign of this gimmicky approach. Oh yeah, and The Hound's "flea bite" wound, what are the odds it's going to end up killing him just like Khal Drogo?

Don't worry m8 Arya is gonna kill all teh bad guys.

bnt

nyarlothothep wrote: »

Spoilers ahead...

Ok, I've just watched episode 8 and I had to post this as it was just overboard imo.
...

I think you're going to enjoy the last couple of episodes of season 4, then.

PS: you don't have to quote a whole post to add a one-line reply ...

nyarlothothep

GerB40 wrote: »

Have you read the books?

No, although I wonder now whether Ayra is going to kill all the villains. I'm dissapointed by her character transformation, why didn't she mercy kill The Hound? Ok I get that her experiences could fundamentally change her but she built up a rapport/friendship with The Hound who at the end of the day is a good person. Also Tyrion killing Shae and Tywin? In particular Tywin who did say he wouldn't have been executed, although he was probably lying, but Tyrion seems to have crossed a line. I'm looking forward to The Mountain's "transformation," also I really liked the prehistoric vibe of the battle for Castle Black and the scenes with Bran, they evoke an area of fantasy that seems overlooked, that kind of prehistoric, arcane world which still has swords etc but it seems much more ancient. Ah I'll keep watching it I guess.