DB Route 145 (14/6/14) - A Tale of Woe

xper

Excuse me while I indulge in some therapeutic venting...

Route 145 is one of Dublin Bus's main arterial and best performing routes, and which is timetabled with a fifteen minute frequency on Saturdays. So on this fine late afternoon, with no traffic issues and no disruptive events occurring, I expected to complete my trip home back into south Dublin after setting out initially and uneventfully on a 45A. It should have taken no more than 20-25 minutes. This did not happen.

Having just missed connecting with one city-bound bus in Shankill, I was somewhat disheartened upon checking the RTPI to see it state 48 minutes until the next bus. But, familiar as I am now with the occasional quirks of RTPI, I hoped that there was an intermediate departure en route that was not showing up on the system as can happen from time to time. Alas, no. I waited and waited as all those minutes ticked down and no bonus phantom bus appeared to fulfil the timetable promise. Then worse, that first of now several 145s actually listed on RTPI started slowing down and occasionally regressing .. 15min... 15min ...14min... 15min ... 14min ... all over the course of another five minutes.

Slowly, grudgingly, it crept down to 8mins. And there it settled. Hereafter until the end of this sorry tale, there remained on the RTPI a 145 exactly 8 mins away, never to make its appearance. For all I know it's still there now, forever circling some roundabout or beached on a speed bump, it's passengers staring out the windows, repeating as one, over and over, the commandments of the on board announcements, wishing they were merely stuck at a bus stop for an hour.

So my wait was extended further. We're at the hour mark now but fret not, for there is a whole fleet of 145s now bearing down on me. Yes, they too appear to encounter the treacle that has ensnared my 8min friend and each dawdles on and even briefly revisits various random numbers that take its fancy. But there is strength in numbers and eventually one breaks the 8 minute barrier and hurtles towards me, taking just fifteen minutes to hove into view.

"A transport! We're saved, R2!" I would have shouted if I were a gold, effeminate android. But I am a sober, frustrated annual ticket holder. I extend my arm. What's this? No indicator? No slowing down? Of course, after such a long gap between buses, this vehicle has taken it's fill of Bray day trippers and young wans heading into town wearing less than their parents thought they left the house with. No wonder, with such mass and momentum, that it was able to overcome whatever forces defeated it's predecessor. It passes in a cloud of indifference. A dog howls in the distance (yes, a dog did actually howl at this point, it was a little unnerving).

I check the time. I have been standing here like a fool for one hour fifteen minutes and I am still not actually underway. Dublin Bus have over the years provided me with several occasions in which to indulge in a little introspection in the starke environs of their thoughtfully provided shelters. It does not invoke positive thoughts. Instead, I calculate that even if a bus were to appear now and whisk me away from this plate glass semi-enclosed hell, I would have been quicker to have walked the several miles to my destination at the outset.

Anyway, when is the next bus now? 8mins... No,no, I don't believe in you anymore. 11mins? Let's see. Something like 11 minutes pass and this bold contender dares to show up as promised. It pulls in. I board. The sweet, happy tone of the Leap card reader greets me. In passing I look to the lady driving and consider some rye remark but I fear I will not contain my frustration within any sort of civility once my mouth has opened so move on with a nod. As I climb the stairs and take my choice of seat, I wonder to myself if I would have held back if it were a male driver. There's that bloody introspection again.

The journey, once started, is uneventful and takes the expected 20 minutes. Yet, I arrive home two hours after I set out. In the same time, another Grecian tragedy has unfolded At the World Cup.

xper

But seriously folks....

A one hour fifteen minute gap on a main route with a fifteen minute frequency? Longer still if you consider the first bus that came was inevitably unable to cope with the waiting customers.

I know maintaining headway is hampered in Dublin by certain factors but today was perfect weather, normal traffic, incident free. How is such a gap allowed to develop to that extent? Is there no control of routes undertaken on weekends?

Will this failure even be noted by management? Is any review of daily and weekly operations undertaken?

One thing I did not mention was that as I eventually boarded my bus, the RTPI sign indicated another 40 minute gap in the following hour. Was half the fleet missing?

Is anybody held accountable for these ****ups?

Banjoxed

xper wrote: »

Excuse me while I indulge in some therapeutic venting...

Route 145 is one of Dublin Bus's main arterial and best performing routes, and which is timetabled with a fifteen minute frequency on Saturdays. So on this fine late afternoon, with no traffic issues and no disruptive events occurring, I expected to complete my trip home back into south Dublin after setting out initially and uneventfully on a 45A. It should have taken no more than 20-25 minutes. This did not happen.

Having just missed connecting with one city-bound bus in Shankill, I was somewhat disheartened upon checking the RTPI to see it state 48 minutes until the next bus. But, familiar as I am now with the occasional quirks of RTPI, I hoped that there was an intermediate departure en route that was not showing up on the system as can happen from time to time. Alas, no. I waited and waited as all those minutes ticked down and no bonus phantom bus appeared to fulfil the timetable promise. Then worse, that first of now several 145s actually listed on RTPI started slowing down and occasionally regressing .. 15min... 15min ...14min... 15min ... 14min ... all over the course of another five minutes.

Slowly, grudgingly, it crept down to 8mins. And there it settled. Hereafter until the end of this sorry tale, there remained on the RTPI a 145 exactly 8 mins away, never to make its appearance. For all I know it's still there now, forever circling some roundabout or beached on a speed bump, it's passengers staring out the windows, repeating as one, over and over, the commandments of the on board announcements, wishing they were merely stuck at a bus stop for an hour.

So my wait was extended further. We're at the hour mark now but fret not, for there is a whole fleet of 145s now bearing down on me. Yes, they too appear to encounter the treacle that has ensnared my 8min friend and each dawdles on and even briefly revisits various random numbers that take its fancy. But there is strength in numbers and eventually one breaks the 8 minute barrier and hurtles towards me, taking just fifteen minutes to hove into view.

"A transport! We're saved, R2!" I would have shouted if I were a gold, effeminate android. But I am a sober, frustrated annual ticket holder. I extend my arm. What's this? No indicator? No slowing down? Of course, after such a long gap between buses, this vehicle has taken it's fill of Bray day trippers and young wans heading into town wearing less than their parents thought they left the house with. No wonder, with such mass and momentum, that it was able to overcome whatever forces defeated it's predecessor. It passes in a cloud of indifference. A dog howls in the distance (yes, a dog did actually howl at this point, it was a little unnerving).

I check the time. I have been standing here like a fool for one hour fifteen minutes and I am still not actually underway. Dublin Bus have over the years provided me with several occasions in which to indulge in a little introspection in the starke environs of their thoughtfully provided shelters. It does not invoke positive thoughts. Instead, I calculate that even if a bus were to appear now and whisk me away from this plate glass semi-enclosed hell, I would have been quicker to have walked the several miles to my destination at the outset.

Anyway, when is the next bus now? 8mins... No,no, I don't believe in you anymore. 11mins? Let's see. Something like 11 minutes pass and this bold contender dares to show up as promised. It pulls in. I board. The sweet, happy tone of the Leap card reader greets me. In passing I look to the lady driving and consider some rye remark but I fear I will not contain my frustration within any sort of civility once my mouth has opened so move on with a nod. As I climb the stairs and take my choice of seat, I wonder to myself if I would have held back if it were a male driver. There's that bloody introspection again.

The journey, once started, is uneventful and takes the expected 20 minutes. Yet, I arrive home two hours after I set out. In the same time, another Grecian tragedy has unfolded At the World Cup.

TL; DR: Buses can suck.

xper

Banjoxed wrote: »

TL; DR:

A Dublin Bus middle management position awaits you. :P

AndrewJD

xper wrote: »

A Dublin Bus middle management position awaits you. :P

His post was far too efficient and accurate for BAC.

coylemj

I was in Kildare St. today waiting for a bus at about 5 p.m., the RTPI display said there was a 145 coming now ('due') and a 46A two minutes behind it. The 145 bus then disappeared off the display as if it had come and gone but it never showed up and a couple of minutes later the 46A arrived.

Yet another phantom bus.

coylemj

Banjoxed wrote: »

TL; DR: Buses can suck.

If you think his post was too long, why did you chose to quote the whole damn thing?

Banjoxed

xper wrote: »

A Dublin Bus middle management position awaits you. :P

Yup I'd scrap every bus route within fifteen minutes walk of a tram stop or railway station.

Bring on the mega Cost Saving!

Banjoxed

coylemj wrote: »

If you think his post was too long, why did you chose to quote the whole damn thing?

In case anyone wanted to read it again!

Banjoxed

xper wrote: »

Excuse me while I indulge in some therapeutic venting...

Route 145 is one of Dublin Bus's main arterial and best performing routes, and which is timetabled with a fifteen minute frequency on Saturdays. So on this fine late afternoon, with no traffic issues and no disruptive events occurring, I expected to complete my trip home back into south Dublin after setting out initially and uneventfully on a 45A. It should have taken no more than 20-25 minutes. This did not happen.

Having just missed connecting with one city-bound bus in Shankill, I was somewhat disheartened upon checking the RTPI to see it state 48 minutes until the next bus. But, familiar as I am now with the occasional quirks of RTPI, I hoped that there was an intermediate departure en route that was not showing up on the system as can happen from time to time. Alas, no. I waited and waited as all those minutes ticked down and no bonus phantom bus appeared to fulfil the timetable promise. Then worse, that first of now several 145s actually listed on RTPI started slowing down and occasionally regressing .. 15min... 15min ...14min... 15min ... 14min ... all over the course of another five minutes.

Slowly, grudgingly, it crept down to 8mins. And there it settled. Hereafter until the end of this sorry tale, there remained on the RTPI a 145 exactly 8 mins away, never to make its appearance. For all I know it's still there now, forever circling some roundabout or beached on a speed bump, it's passengers staring out the windows, repeating as one, over and over, the commandments of the on board announcements, wishing they were merely stuck at a bus stop for an hour.

So my wait was extended further. We're at the hour mark now but fret not, for there is a whole fleet of 145s now bearing down on me. Yes, they too appear to encounter the treacle that has ensnared my 8min friend and each dawdles on and even briefly revisits various random numbers that take its fancy. But there is strength in numbers and eventually one breaks the 8 minute barrier and hurtles towards me, taking just fifteen minutes to hove into view.

"A transport! We're saved, R2!" I would have shouted if I were a gold, effeminate android. But I am a sober, frustrated annual ticket holder. I extend my arm. What's this? No indicator? No slowing down? Of course, after such a long gap between buses, this vehicle has taken it's fill of Bray day trippers and young wans heading into town wearing less than their parents thought they left the house with. No wonder, with such mass and momentum, that it was able to overcome whatever forces defeated it's predecessor. It passes in a cloud of indifference. A dog howls in the distance (yes, a dog did actually howl at this point, it was a little unnerving).

I check the time. I have been standing here like a fool for one hour fifteen minutes and I am still not actually underway. Dublin Bus have over the years provided me with several occasions in which to indulge in a little introspection in the starke environs of their thoughtfully provided shelters. It does not invoke positive thoughts. Instead, I calculate that even if a bus were to appear now and whisk me away from this plate glass semi-enclosed hell, I would have been quicker to have walked the several miles to my destination at the outset.

Anyway, when is the next bus now? 8mins... No,no, I don't believe in you anymore. 11mins? Let's see. Something like 11 minutes pass and this bold contender dares to show up as promised. It pulls in. I board. The sweet, happy tone of the Leap card reader greets me. In passing I look to the lady driving and consider some rye remark but I fear I will not contain my frustration within any sort of civility once my mouth has opened so move on with a nod. As I climb the stairs and take my choice of seat, I wonder to myself if I would have held back if it were a male driver. There's that bloody introspection again.

The journey, once started, is uneventful and takes the expected 20 minutes. Yet, I arrive home two hours after I set out. In the same time, another Grecian tragedy has unfolded At the World Cup.

It is quite long, isn't it?

foggy_lad

Waited an hour for a 145 on Suffolk Street between 8pm and 9pm earlier and three phantom buses passes by on the real time display, was there some lightening strike or were all the busmen out sick and at the beech?

paddyland

It was the ghost bus!

Seriously though, it seems nothing much has changed in twenty years. Routinely, there were always buses missing off the Bray road on Friday and Saturday nights, and an hour or even a two hour gap was no strange thing. Yet there would be a full complement on the gold plated 46A service. Not even one bus and driver could be spared from the 46A, to fill an almighty gap on the 45 service.

Bray was always the Outer Hebrides as far as DB were concerned.

VG31

I often find on Northbound 145s, big gaps in the service then buses arrive up to 6 at a time.

Muahahaha

Thanks OP, you've reminded me of why I avoid using DB. They get it right most of the time but when it goes wrong it goes horribly wrong. That annoys people of course but what annoys them most is that nothing will be done to ensure it doesn't happen again and lo and behold it will happen again, maybe not today or tomorrow but you know well in the back of your mind that if you use DB regularly then at some stage in the future they're going to waste another 2 hours of your day and if you complain they're not going to care and nor are they going to do anything about it.

For me situations like what the OP went through would have me pulling me hair out. And I've been there often enough and been burnt often enough by DB to not use then for 95% of my journeys. Only 6 weeks ago I needed to use them to get the 140 from town on a Sunday and the bus took 40 minutes to show up with lots of dancing on the RTP1 screen going from six minutes to eight, back to six back to eight and so on. When it did arrive I couldn't get on as it was wedged. At that I said feck it and got on a Dublin bike as far as Phibsboro, then had a nice walk through Glasnevin and then took a taxi home. It cost me more but I'd much prefer paying that than the uncertainty of continuing to stand at a bus stop where the next bus might be another 40 minutes away. It's just pure madness when you consider that Sunday is arguably a busier shopping day than Saturday and yet they run half a schedule, it's a policy stuck in 1980's Catholic Ireland and they really need to wake up to the numbers shopping in the city on a Sunday, it's packed yet buses are often few and far between.

Muahahaha

coylemj wrote: »

Yet another phantom bus.

Now that the RTP1 system is in operation I presume Dublin Bus know where all their buses are at any given time.

It's just a pity they don't come under the Freedom of Information act, then people could submit a request to find out exactly how many phantom buses are operating on their route and use the data to campaign for a better service.

coylemj

Muahahaha wrote: »

Now that the RTP1 system is in operation I presume Dublin Bus know where all their buses are at any given time.

It's just a pity they don't come under the Freedom of Information act, then people could submit a request to find out exactly how many phantom buses are operating on their route and use the data to campaign for a better service.

The RTPI system shows predicted stop times for a service that hasn't yet left the terminus which is fair enough as otherwise travellers early on the route wouldn't see the bus on the display until a matter of minutes before it arrives.

The problem with this is that DB often don't pull a bus from the system when clearly they must know at least an hour in advance that a particular service 'will not operate' - their term for what the rest of call 'cancelled'.

This means that you will often see a bus that's coming soon and the time will step down until about 2-3 minutes before it's supposed to arrive, then it just disappears.

Muahahaha

The practice of not reporting cancelled buses really needs to stop- this is crucial information for passengers and holding it back from them throws their travel plans into chaos. I don't get what the point is in investing in all that technology, which is essentially a company to passenger communications system, and then not communicate with the passengers at a time when communications are the most needed, i.e.when there's a deviation from the scheduled timetable.

Passengers get frustrated waiting if their bus is cancelled, it really inst much to ask that DB show a common courtesy by using the technology they have at their disposal to inform them so they can at least decide if there is a better alternative option available to them than having to stand at a bus stop like a spare eejit not knowing when the next one might show up or if it will have any space due to the backlog.

Alun

Muahahaha wrote: »

The practice of not reporting cancelled buses really needs to stop- this is crucial information for passengers and holding it back from them throws their travel plans into chaos.

Indeed. We live literally 2 mins walk from a 145 bus stop in Bray, and my wife wanted to take the bus into town for the women's mini-marathon. She checked on the timetable, there was a bus that suited her, and about 20 mins before it was due she checked again on the RTPI app, and lo and behold ... next bus due in 39 minutes. Note this was long before the start, or before any traffic restrictions were in place. Fearful that the next bus wouldn't materialise either, I drove her down to the Dart instead.

schemingbohemia

OP complain to Dublin Bus and the NTA

Kensington

Many an hour I stood on Fleet Street in the Irish elements waiting for an every-15-minutes 150 bus home in the evening. Its not a particular route it seems to be just DB's general unique timetabling and scheduling.

I eventually gave up and bought a moped in mid-2009, I've used the bus about twice so far this year and maybe a handful of times in total since 2009.

Not a hope would I go back to using the bus as a means of commuting except as an absolute last resort.

steveblack

Bray is the worst for traffic in all of the network. No pattern to traffic, what can be done in 10 minutes today could take 40 tomorrow.
Bus makes great time all the way out to the roundabout at the entrance to bray, and by the time it gets to kilmac its 20-30 behind schedule.
Now if it runs back through bray it will be potentially 30-40 behind schedule when it is leaving bray. So the controller get the bus to leave kilmac and travel on the M11 to loughlinstown hospital where it rejoins the route and gets back on time.
Why is this done you ask, well the driver has a 1 hour break , if he is running up to 40 minutes late he has only 20 minutes to walk to canteen, get lunch, eat it and then go back to the handover. Its at least 10 minutes walk from the handover in bray to the canteen.
Also it is the done thing that drivers will be there 10 minutes before they take up for the second half of there duty, so they would really only have a 10 minute break.

The 145,184 and 84x are all on the same roster, so you can imagine the complete chaos on these 3 route if the drivers do not start the second half of there duty on time.

foggy_lad

Waiting for the 14 at Dundrum Luas stop today and the 18:00, 18:15, 18:30 were no shows on the road and on the RTPI and the 18:50 bus was late. Farmers were supposedly to blame.

coylemj

Before this becomes a DB whingeathon, can we confine it to situations which are with DB's control? A protest which takes place without any notice and blocks Kildare St. is something that is going to affect a lot of southbound buses but there isn't a lot DB can do about it.

punisher5112

Also the Luas work's, crashes on route, breakdowns. slow boarding& alighting passengers, on occasion the abusive confrontation or also waiting for Garda assistance and many other things that can hold things up.

I do believe there could be a strategy put in place though where a certain amount of drivers are placed with a bus in certain black spot areas and cover these areas when nessesary as something always goes wrong which is always the case with such a busy city.

LXFlyer

coylemj wrote: »

Before this becomes a DB whingeathon, can we confine it to situations which are with DB's control? A protest which takes place without any notice and blocks Kildare St. is something that is going to affect a lot of southbound buses but there isn't a lot DB can do about it.

This is the crux of many of the problems that Dublin Bus face - buses can get held up heading in one direction and this will inevitably have a knock-on effect on later services heading in the opposite direction. People often don't realise that.

It may explain the issues on the 145. Realistically there are only two explanations for what happened on Saturday:

1) Delays to buses heading from the city for whatever reason - protest march in the city or just bad traffic in Bray for example. This would result in buses running very late and controllers sometimes have no option but to operate some back towards town out of service for some/all of the route to get buses and drivers back to where they ought to be. The latter however should not cause gaps of the magnitude suffered by the OP. Whether there was a march through the city on Saturday, I don't know. With respect to the OP, I'm not sure how he/she can know that there were no delays elsewhere either, unless he/she has an all seeing eye!!

2) Driver shortages - this has been an issue that Dublin Bus have suffered from in recent summers and this has caused departures to be cancelled. Whether this is the case this year or not I don't know.

I do think DB need to improve their communications outside of normal business hours. Their twitter account is excellent as a point of contact, but operating only between 0800 and 1800 Monday-Friday isn't really enough anymore. It does need someone manning it throughout each day and that way people can find out what's happening.

What I would do if I were the OP is send an email to customercomment@dublinbus.ie and log a complaint. At least then you may get an answer as to what the issue was.

foggy_lad

coylemj wrote: »

Before this becomes a DB whingeathon, can we confine it to situations which are with DB's control? A protest which takes place without any notice and blocks Kildare St. is something that is going to affect a lot of southbound buses but there isn't a lot DB can do about it.

It is an awful pity that the real time information system can't give information on crashes, protests and other things that will affect the progress of individual buses, some notice of delays yesterday would have been nice and alternative arrangements could have been made!

LXFlyer

You can use the NTA or Dublin Bus apps for services from stops nearby, using the find stops nearby function.

Always worth checking nearby stops if the service from the current stop are not running to schedule.

Depending on where you were going, the 17, 44, 61 and 75 all stop nearby and may have been an option for some/part of the trip.

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is an awful pity that the real time information system can't give information on crashes, protests and other things that will affect the progress of individual buses, some notice of delays yesterday would have been nice and alternative arrangements could have been made!

They can be used for that, I understand, they just don't!

Thargor

The 145 departure from Heuston and the Dublin bus app dont seem to get along either, completely different times on the displays compared to the app even though thats where it starts from, pain in the ass when you're up late on a Sunday night from Galway and dont know if you should just get a taxi to the DART right then or chance wasting 90 minutes of your life to see if one decides to come along.

loyatemu

If buses are cancelled or rerouted, can't that information be put out via the RTPI system, or at least via a feed on the DB app? Among the numerous things that I hate about using DB (which is fortunately not very often) is the feeling of being completely in the dark - maybe my bus will show up, maybe it won't, who knows? RTPI has helped a little with this but I still don't trust it.

At least on the Dart or the Luas if there is a problem they generally make an announcement.

AlekSmart

punisher5112 wrote: »

I do believe there could be a strategy put in place though where a certain amount of drivers are placed with a bus in certain black spot areas and cover these areas when nessesary as something always goes wrong which is always the case with such a busy city.

There are some quite widely accepted Public Transport strategies which,for whatever reason remain taboo in Dublin.

One significant improvement would be the identification of "Short Running" destinations as in London,where,for example a Southbound 145 could be worked to Cabinteely/Loughlinstown/Shankhill and potentially connect into the45A or 84 for onward passengers. The Northbound 145 could equally operate as far as Merrion Row,before turning and operating back out from Stephens Green East.

With the flexibility of LED Destination Units plus the on-board audio-visual announcements this could be clearly outlined to all passengers,allowing them to make their own decisions on their options.

These suggested "Shorts" are far from perfect,but would allow the maintenance of a service along Most of the route,most of the time,rather than all of the route occasionally.

My belief is that virtually all of the trunk route network has locations capable of supporting such turn-arounds,but ,as yet,no appetite exists for carrying out any study on the principle.