Will ireland enter a 7s team to the olympics

student15

With the Olympics in 2016 having 7s in it I was wondering what ireland will do. Will we enter the tournament, will there be 'Northern Irish' ulster men playing.
Just wondering with you fellas what you think the Craic is!
Not looking to whip up politics !!!!

CIARAN_BOYLE

student15 wrote: »

With the Olympics in 2016 having 7s in it I was wondering what ireland will do. Will we enter the tournament, will there be 'Northern Irish' ulster men playing.
Just wondering with you fellas what you think the Craic is!
Not looking to whip up politics !!!!

If we set up a 7s team we wouldn't qualify.

The Lost Sheep

student15 wrote: »

With the Olympics in 2016 having 7s in it I was wondering what ireland will do. Will we enter the tournament, will there be 'Northern Irish' ulster men playing.
Just wondering with you fellas what you think the Craic is!
Not looking to whip up politics !!!!

We wont qualify and IMO we're unlikely to have a team who will try qualify.
"Northern Irish" players prob will play if they want as they wont make any british side as that'll be made up of full time pro 7s players from Scotland/England/Wales..

Winters

IRFU DoR Eddie Wigglesworth has said no for the men. The ladies will though. There isn't the budget to and if they did now it would be too late to qualify.

Skid X

There is a Womens Sevens team which will be trying to qualify for Rio.

http://www.irishrugby.ie/ireland/teams/women7s.php

The IRFU haven't had much interest in Mens Sevens in recent years.

beggars_bush

Funny, but you'd think it would be a great game to introduce in non rugby areas in Ireland

The Lost Sheep

beggars_bush wrote: »

Funny, but you'd think it would be a great game to introduce in non rugby areas in Ireland

Not so sure on that as when you want to then introduce them to 15 man game its difficult to alter some of the things picked up from playing 7s that will work in 15s

Braken

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Not so sure on that as when you want to then introduce them to 15 man game its difficult to alter some of the things picked up from playing 7s that will work in 15s

load of bull LS...BEN SMITH,CORY JANE.ISRAEL DAGG all 7s players did't do too bad today...

BionicRasher

I would think that 7s skills are becoming more important than ever. It's all about the speed of thought and off loads and lines people run.
I think we are crazy not to tap into the 7s game.
Also as mentioned before I think it is a great way to get additional players into the game where you have non rugby areas without full clubs I am sure people would get involved through 7s.

The Lost Sheep

Braken wrote: »

load of bull LS...BEN SMITH,CORY JANE.ISRAEL DAGG all 7s players did't do too bad today...

Not a load of BS at all. Its quite difficult to alter many aspects of the game which are so different in each game. 7s helps some aspects like many attacking skills but defending and how to approach things is completely different in each.

Prawo_Jazdy

Braken wrote: »

load of bull LS...BEN SMITH,CORY JANE.ISRAEL DAGG all 7s players did't do too bad today...

It looks like you shouted at the wrong part of the sentence

CatFromHue

I think Smith and Dadd were underage NZ players.

Buer

CatFromHue wrote: »

Dadd were underage NZ players.

My father told me he was Santa Claus.

Braken

CatFromHue wrote: »

I think Smith and Dadd were underage NZ players.

not so..ben smith won commonwealth gold and dagg dagg played sen 7s

Braken

BionicRasher wrote: »

I would think that 7s skills are becoming more important than ever. It's all about the speed of thought and off loads and lines people run.
I think we are crazy not to tap into the 7s game.
Also as mentioned before I think it is a great way to get additional players into the game where you have non rugby areas without full clubs I am sure people would get involved through 7s.

agree..it gets players,forwards as well as backs,to appreciate the depth and scope of a rugby pitch,plus the basics of running,passing,tackling and backing up the ball carrier...

CatFromHue

Dagg - http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=1101
Smith - http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/Profile.asp?ABID=1100

I personally think there is some cross over between the two games but I'm not sure how much.

The Lost Sheep

BionicRasher wrote: »

I would think that 7s skills are becoming more important than ever. It's all about the speed of thought and off loads and lines people run.
I think we are crazy not to tap into the 7s game.
Also as mentioned before I think it is a great way to get additional players into the game where you have non rugby areas without full clubs I am sure people would get involved through 7s.

some skills are important but we are better putting our limited resources into the full game especially when we don't have a history in 7s.
Problem with getting new people into the sport through 7s is that its so different to the 15 man game in defence, attack, space.

Braken wrote: »

agree..it gets players,forwards as well as backs,to appreciate the depth and scope of a rugby pitch,plus the basics of running,passing,tackling and backing up the ball carrier...

Yes you appreciate space a bit more and you get more time on the ball but its completely different to the 15 man game and is ok for players well used to game but why introduce new people to the sport to 7s first when defense line speed, whole tackle situation etc are so different in each of the different codes

CatFromHue

Buer wrote: »

My father told me he was Santa Claus.

Well that's a bit of a ****e child hood lol

Did he tax your desserts too?

BionicRasher

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

why introduce new people to the sport to 7s

Because you might get more people playing rugby and maybe unearth a gem or two. I would think that people in areas without a strong rugby background would be quicker to join up and play 7s, (which is fast exciting and a lot less contact then the 15s game) than travel to a club not in their locality and play 15s
A bit like the GAA, imagine if every parish in Ireland had a 7s team..... Much easier IMHO to get a 7s team together than a full 15s

The Lost Sheep

BionicRasher wrote: »

Because you might get more people playing rugby and maybe unearth a gem or two. I would think that people in areas without a strong rugby background would be quicker to join up and play 7s, (which is fast exciting and a lot less contact then the 15s game) than travel to a club not in their locality and play 15s
A bit like the GAA, imagine if every parish in Ireland had a 7s team..... Much easier IMHO to get a 7s team together than a full 15s

You wont as 7s is so different to the 15 man game. How the game is played is completely different. You may unearth a gem but you will find it much easier with getting new people into the 15 man game.

Risteard

7s to me is a completely different sport and doesn't really have any effect on 15s performance.

Sure, there are players who played 7s who had great rugby careers, but attributing that to what they picked up at 7s is a bit silly IMO.

I would say the above players (Smith, Dagg and Jane) etc. benefited from outstanding underage rugby training in NZ rather than anything they did in 7s.

Clareman

Wasn't there something a few years back that the IRFU had a choice between having Connacht or a 7s team?

BionicRasher

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

You wont as 7s is so different to the 15 man game. How the game is played is completely different. You may unearth a gem but you will find it much easier with getting new people into the 15 man game.

I disagree. Numbers in the 15s game is pretty static at the moment. Adding a 7s aspect in areas that don't have full 15s teams and clubs can only increase the numbers playing. Get schools that don't have a rugby tradition playing 7s and the knock on effect would add to overall playing numbers. Its a no brainer really and I really wonder why the irfu don't follow the lead of all the other nations playing the game.

oneshot0kill

I don't post much but thought I'd put in an outsiders perspective on this. Sevens may be a different sport to xvs but it still uses the very same skills that makes a player more effective and exciting in the later game. Growing up in NZ it didn't really matter what form of rugby we were playing as long as we had a ball to show off our steps or clever dummies and running lines at school or in the back yard. I think that culture stands to the talent we produce and sevens is simply a more professional embodiment of that mentality of throwing the ball and having a go. That culture doesn't exist here, where I only see kids or adults playing if there is xvs training or an actual rugby game going on. It's very regimented. But yeah sevens is great for handling, speed, awareness, dummies, side stepping, fitness. It's a brilliant game to introduce new players as it's simple and it's brilliant for fine tuning and broadening the creativity of experienced players. The ABs are known back home for using it as a developmental tool.

Not sure how to add a vid from a phone but here's a news report on it being used as that before. And still is used with guys like Savea, Vito, Messam, Smith, Dagg, Lomu, and I'm sure more in the future http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1tixA_N4klQ

Always found it strange how dismissive the idea of sevens is here in Ireland but hope that would turn around one day with the formation of an actual irb sevens team cos you guys could be quite good!

chupacabra

Buer wrote: »

My father told me he was Santa Claus.

Your father lied to you. In fact, Santa Claus doesnt exist.

The Lost Sheep

BionicRasher wrote: »

I disagree. Numbers in the 15s game is pretty static at the moment. Adding a 7s aspect in areas that don't have full 15s teams and clubs can only increase the numbers playing. Get schools that don't have a rugby tradition playing 7s and the knock on effect would add to overall playing numbers. Its a no brainer really and I really wonder why the irfu don't follow the lead of all the other nations playing the game.

I ref schools games regularly both at 15s/7s(non traditional schools and often many players have rarely played game in a club and only started when development officer went into their school).
7s can create the wrong impression for players on what the games is like. Its also a cost issue for IRFU on entering a side in the 7s series.

BionicRasher

chupacabra wrote: »

Your father lied to you. In fact, Santa Claus doesnt exist.

Can you please think of the children reading this thread

BionicRasher

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I ref schools games regularly both at 15s/7s(non traditional schools and often many players have rarely played game in a club and only started when development officer went into their school).
7s can create the wrong impression for players on what the games is like. Its also a cost issue for IRFU on entering a side in the 7s series.

I would think cost is the main reason why we don't have a 7s team competing. However I feel that the irfu are missing out on a large untapped player base.
Rugby can be seen as an elitist sport played by toffs and the alickadoos running clubs can sometimes send out a message that the uncouth are not welcome so many people would not even try to join a club.
Tap into the GAA player base and non rugby schools and have them playing 7s and I am sure we would have a great number of exciting players come through to play 15s eventually.
Or how bad if we even get a strong 7s team together. Something else for the public to support. Imagine if we had a strong 7s team in 10 years and they won a medal at the Olympics. That would be a great success.

The Lost Sheep

BionicRasher wrote: »

I would think cost is the main reason why we don't have a 7s team competing. However I feel that the irfu are missing out on a large untapped player base.
Rugby can be seen as an elitist sport played by toffs and the alickadoos running clubs can sometimes send out a message that the uncouth are not welcome so many people would not even try to join a club.
Tap into the GAA player base and non rugby schools and have them playing 7s and I am sure we would have a great number of exciting players come through to play 15s eventually.
Or how bad if we even get a strong 7s team together. Something else for the public to support. Imagine if we had a strong 7s team in 10 years and they won a medal at the Olympics. That would be a great success.

Cost is an issue but we are not missing out on a large untapped player base through not playing 7s. We don't have a major history in 7s and most people only see it as end of season jolly.
Rugby can be seen as elitist and from my experience no there is no message sent out that some are not welcome to join. Maybe in the past but not now.
To tap into the GAA player base and non rugby schools you look to tag to introduce people to the sport not 7s and then get them into the club game playing 15 a side
It would be great if we had a 7s side in the Olympics/World Series but resources are better spent elsewhere at this time.

RedemptionZ

There's a disappointing dismissive attitude to sevens in Ireland. Irish players consistently lack flair and as someone said earlier, training in Ireland is always very regimented. Organisation isn't necessarily a bad thing, normally a positive in fact, however I am of the opinion that we produce far too many solid players and not enough 'tricksters'. Particularly in fullback.

I'd point to Australia as an example, their union playing population is pretty similar to ours and they have a very solid sevens team. Admittedly they have the league contingent which can feed into sevens but I think in general their situation would be comparable to ours.

It's important to look at what sevens does. It develops handling, line running, space awareness and offloading. Anyone who plays in the World Series in sevens will realistically be sticking with sevens for life, but in Ireland 15s will always be more prestigious and the opportunity to represent your Provence and country in it will take precedence so sevens wouldn't really eat into the player pool, rather develop it. If it's used in addition to 15s as a development tool the result will be more well rounded players IMO.

The Lost Sheep

RedemptionZ wrote: »

There's a disappointing dismissive attitude to sevens in Ireland. Irish players consistently lack flair and as someone said earlier, training in Ireland is always very regimented. Organisation isn't necessarily a bad thing, normally a positive in fact, however I am of the opinion that we produce far too many solid players and not enough 'tricksters'. Particularly in fullback.

I'd point to Australia as an example, their union playing population is pretty similar to ours and they have a very solid sevens team. Admittedly they have the league contingent which can feed into sevens but I think in general their situation would be comparable to ours.

It's important to look at what sevens does. It develops handling, line running, space awareness and offloading. Anyone who plays in the World Series in sevens will realistically be sticking with sevens for life, but in Ireland 15s will always be more prestigious and the opportunity to represent your Provence and country in it will take precedence so sevens wouldn't really eat into the player pool, rather develop it. If it's used in addition to 15s as a development tool the result will be more well rounded players IMO.

Some big generalisations there...
Training in Ireland is not always very regimented and we regularly produce players with "spark" but more solid players are chosen. With Ireland we haven't been helped by EOS/DK picking conservatively.
Australia have a lot of players who play league etc and I don't think their situation can be compared to ours.
Sevens can improve passing and off loading but id prefer we put our resources into the 15s game where we will have more success. Our player pool will be better if we do more with the level below the pro12 and work on the A team and AIL..

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Some big generalisations there...
Training in Ireland is not always very regimented and we regularly produce players with "spark" but more solid players are chosen. With Ireland we haven't been helped by EOS/DK picking conservatively.
Australia have a lot of players who play league etc and I don't think their situation can be compared to ours.
Sevens can improve passing and off loading but id prefer we put our resources into the 15s game where we will have more success. Our player pool will be better if we do more with the level below the pro12 and work on the A team and AIL..

Well the olympics is supposed to be for amateur athletes. So send a J4 team over to it.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Well the olympics is supposed to be for amateur athletes. So send a J4 team over to it.

A j4 team wouldn't qualify

RedemptionZ

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Some big generalisations there...
Training in Ireland is not always very regimented and we regularly produce players with "spark" but more solid players are chosen. With Ireland we haven't been helped by EOS/DK picking conservatively.
Australia have a lot of players who play league etc and I don't think their situation can be compared to ours.
Sevens can improve passing and off loading but id prefer we put our resources into the 15s game where we will have more success. Our player pool will be better if we do more with the level below the pro12 and work on the A team and AIL..

Oh I am speaking in generalisations no argument there, but I think the complete dismissal of sevens is a very conservative point of view. Sevens is a very useful development tool and is used by the likes of NZ as such. Perhaps flair was the wrong word, but how often are northern hemisphere teams shown up for their ball skills when they play New Zealand or Aus?

I'd liken it to futsal in football. Italy, Spain, Portugal all have huge futsal playing pools, particularly at youth. Futsal is essentially 5 a side indoor football and places more of an emphasis on technical skills such as ball control and less on physicality. It's very widely played in youths and when they graduate to 11 a side the result is very technically apt players. Now to compare them to Ireland wouldn't be fair as the population difference is massive, but England on the other hand have similar playing population and begin playing 11 a side at afaik U11s. The result is far worse players technically because the more physical players excelled at 11 a side.

Maybe delusions on my part, but I think there could be a correlation between more skillful players and having a sevens set up.

The Lost Sheep

RedemptionZ wrote: »

Oh I am speaking in generalisations no argument there, but I think the complete dismissal of sevens is a very conservative point of view. Sevens is a very useful development tool and is used by the likes of NZ as such. Perhaps flair was the wrong word, but how often are northern hemisphere teams shown up for their ball skills when they play New Zealand or Aus?

I'd liken it to futsal in football. Italy, Spain, Portugal all have huge futsal playing pools, particularly at youth. Futsal is essentially 5 a side indoor football and places more of an emphasis on technical skills such as ball control and less on physicality. It's very widely played in youths and when they graduate to 11 a side the result is very technically apt players. Now to compare them to Ireland wouldn't be fair as the population difference is massive, but England on the other hand have similar playing population and begin playing 11 a side at afaik U11s. The result is far worse players technically because the more physical players excelled at 11 a side.

Maybe delusions on my part, but I think there could be a correlation between more skillful players and having a sevens set up.

Ive played 7s quite a bit and see tag as much better for introducing people to the sport and for improving in the sport. 7s is a fitness game and you learn as much in tag depending on your experience of the sport.
NZ/Australia do often show us up in relation to skills but that's due to a general philosophy and how they play and not so much to do with 7s more their overall approach to the sport at 15s.

Riskymove

RedemptionZ wrote: »

There's a disappointing dismissive attitude to sevens in Ireland.

I agree

while there are interesting arguments on both sides, the fact remains that ireland is pretty much the only rugby nation not competing

so if all the negatives are correct why do all these other nations compete?

Thud

Women's team's chances of qualifying are getting slimmer:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/women/32068.php

Yeah_Right

Tag rugby is great for introducing new fans to rugby. Its a social sport and a few drinks afterwards.

7s is great for giving young guys (school boys) the opportunity to play rugby. In schools/areas where there isn't a big rugby tradition, you will probably find it hard to get guys who want to play in the tight 5. But you could get 10 lads who are GAA players but would enjoy throwing the ball around and making some tackles and who knows what could happen from there. You will get guys who will end up 7s specialists and that will be all they will play. But you will also get guys who spend a few years developing in 7s before converting to 15s. This is a fact as you only have to look at whats happened in other countries.

I simply can't understand the dismissive attitude to 7s in Ireland. Any argument against it just doesn't hold up. Funding?? Get a specific sponsor for 7s.

From a fans point of view, I would love to see a 7s World Series weekend in Dublin. It would get a bigger crowd and generate a better atmosphere than the one in Murrayfield. I reckon it could end being as much fun as the ones in Wellington, Hong Kong, Dubai or Vegas.

The Lost Sheep

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Tag rugby is great for introducing new fans to rugby. Its a social sport and a few drinks afterwards.

7s is great for giving young guys (school boys) the opportunity to play rugby. In schools/areas where there isn't a big rugby tradition, you will probably find it hard to get guys who want to play in the tight 5. But you could get 10 lads who are GAA players but would enjoy throwing the ball around and making some tackles and who knows what could happen from there. You will get guys who will end up 7s specialists and that will be all they will play. But you will also get guys who spend a few years developing in 7s before converting to 15s. This is a fact as you only have to look at whats happened in other countries.

I simply can't understand the dismissive attitude to 7s in Ireland. Any argument against it just doesn't hold up. Funding?? Get a specific sponsor for 7s.

From a fans point of view, I would love to see a 7s World Series weekend in Dublin. It would get a bigger crowd and generate a better atmosphere than the one in Murrayfield. I reckon it could end being as much fun as the ones in Wellington, Hong Kong, Dubai or Vegas.

Ive coached/reffed a lot at tag rugby blitzes where majority of kids playing don't play rugby outside of the sessions where the local development officer comes to their school and its a hell of a lot easier to introduce people especially younger people to rugby through tag not 7s.
7s requires a ridiculous level of fitness and simply there wouldn't be enough competition to keep people in the sport. Its only really a end of season event.
A 7s world series weekend would be great but I would rather we invest money into youths rugby and development officers to increase playing numbers in the sport and improve coaching standards in all our junior clubs and newly established clubs

.ak

Thud wrote: »

Women's team's chances of qualifying are getting slimmer:

http://www.irishrugby.ie/club/women/32068.php

So I haven't really been following this, but how can we have a women's team but cant' afford a men's team?

Losty Dublin

.ak wrote: »

So I haven't really been following this, but how can we have a women's team but cant' afford a men's team?

The women's game here isn't pro there are no wage bills to worry about unlike the mens game.

.ak

So why can't we start an AIL level team? Guys like McGrath would be great.

DGRulz

Are the Olympics not an amateur event?

CIARAN_BOYLE

DGRulz wrote: »

Are the Olympics not an amateur event?

No, not really, there are a few sports where it is most are fully professional events.

The Lost Sheep

.ak wrote: »

So why can't we start an AIL level team? Guys like McGrath would be great.

Don't see IRFU looking at it. Costs, would those guys stop playing AIL etc to play the 7s which wou?

DGRulz wrote: »

Are the Olympics not an amateur event?

No. Pro's can play. It varies from sport to sport

Losty Dublin

DGRulz wrote: »

Are the Olympics not an amateur event?

They sure are.

And drug free

Yeah_Right

DGRulz wrote: »

Are the Olympics not an amateur event?

The whole amateur ethos in the Olympics got thrown out in the late 80s. The USSR and their fellow communist European countries had for years been employing their top athletes in government jobs where they did nothing but train and compete. A lot of the US track and field stars didn't have full time jobs, just PR stuff.
Then the IOC included tennis in the 88 games. Full professionals. 92 saw the Dream Team compete in the basketball and it was the official end of shamateurism. All the top competitors at the Olympics these days do it as a full-time job. Sorry, except boxing.

Thud

I don't think 7's is going to be the introductory route to rugby, mini's and tag does that but think it would offer another option for the multitude of schools player who won't make it at provincial level be it for size reasons or otherwise.
Continued development in a professional squad could see some of them come back into the reckoning for 15's down the line that mightn't happen at AIL level.

Losty Dublin

BionicRasher wrote: »

Because you might get more people playing rugby and maybe unearth a gem or two. I would think that people in areas without a strong rugby background would be quicker to join up and play 7s, (which is fast exciting and a lot less contact then the 15s game) than travel to a club not in their locality and play 15s
A bit like the GAA, imagine if every parish in Ireland had a 7s team..... Much easier IMHO to get a 7s team together than a full 15s

There is but one flaw in this argument.

Where will they play these games of 7 a side rugby? In new clubs or the clubs that already play 15 a side, mini and tag rugby?

Thud

Losty Dublin wrote: »

There is but one flaw in this argument.

Where will they play these games of 7 a side rugby? In new clubs or the clubs that already play 15 a side, mini and tag rugby?

Where do you reckon they are playing 7's in New Zealand and every other country that plays it?

Losty Dublin

Thud wrote: »

Where do you reckon they are playing 7's in New Zealand and every other country that plays it?

In established clubs. When there they can play the 15 a side instead of glorified kiss chasing that 7's is :pac: