Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

ericzeking

Interesting that we are apparently signing this guy again...who is picking our signings, since Moyes also wanted him apparently?
Could LVG have watched him that much in the context of signing him for United?
Personally, I think LVG was working as United manager well before Moyes was sacked.

Or did United just go to LVG and say, 'Hey Louis, we can get this guy handy enough, we dealt with him last summer...' and LVG just said, 'yesh, he'll do and I'll work my oranje spell on him and make him fantastice'

TheDoc

StaticAge11 wrote: »

Reports on Herrera signing on for 28 million before the 1st of July, as his fee goes up after that. The deal Moyes should have done a year ago instead of Fellaini

He had another impressive season as well.

Considering the Spanish squad will have a mini clearout and some new blood brought in, he's widely tipped to form the front of the new Spanish team going into the Euros with Koke.

So probably makes sense getting him now before his price and stock sky rockets again.

KH25

ericzeking wrote: »

Interesting that we are apparently signing this guy again...who is picking our signings, since Moyes also wanted him apparently?
Could LVG have watched him that much in the context of signing him for United?
Personally, I think LVG was working as United manager well before Moyes was sacked.

Or did United just go to LVG and say, 'Hey Louis, we can get this guy handy enough, we dealt with him last summer...' and LVG just said, 'yesh, he'll do and I'll work my oranje spell on him and make him fantastice'

I like to think this actually happened.

RichFTW

OdgeXD wrote: »

I mean constantly giving the ball away, barely working, blaming those around him for him being ****. Scoring an unmissable goal and having a trademark potshot is far outweighed by his negatives.

The guy with the Ronaldo comment..hush, you're just being silly.

£12M is an amazing offer.

Or making a piss poor attempt to block the shot for the first US goal. He showed signs of good play but topped it off with the usual Nani crap. He's had enough chances to return to his great form of a few years ago, time to cash out and £12m is a decent price to get for him.

Anyway you're wasting your time here giving out about Nani, he could stab the ref and the Nani love brigade in here would still defend him. I'll never understand the blind faith he gets here so I just agree to disagree.

StaticAge11

TheDoc wrote: »

He had another impressive season as well.

Considering the Spanish squad will have a mini clearout and some new blood brought in, he's widely tipped to form the front of the new Spanish team going into the Euros with Koke.

So probably makes sense getting him now before his price and stock sky rockets again.

He has a buy-out clause in his contract of 28million sterling. Thats increasing to 32 million in a weeks time. The smart move would be to have him before that, few extra funds available for bulking up the defence.

Also saw in a few papers this morning that its looking like around 30 million plus for Shaw. Great player but not worth that. Just shows how ridiculous the money has gotten in the sport

TheDoc

ericzeking wrote: »

Interesting that we are apparently signing this guy again...who is picking our signings, since Moyes also wanted him apparently?
Could LVG have watched him that much in the context of signing him for United?
Personally, I think LVG was working as United manager well before Moyes was sacked.

Or did United just go to LVG and say, 'Hey Louis, we can get this guy handy enough, we dealt with him last summer...' and LVG just said, 'yesh, he'll do and I'll work my oranje spell on him and make him fantastice'

Obviously a manager wants to pick their own men, but considering Moyes had a good reputation for due dilligence in regards transfers, and he had his scouting teams working indepth reports, might be neglegant for a new manager to disregard that work.

I think also when you consdier the targets MOyes was looking at, they werent unknowns, but somewhat household names. So I'd imagine the scouting was the basics but more focused on if the players could fit into X system. Their ability wasn't much to question when you look at the likes of Kroos, Herrera, Vidal etc.

Have to say Vidal has come back very strong from his injury looking unaffected. Bodes well maybe for pushing in a move for him, but also for the likes of Strootman, easing fears that a player cant be the same after an injury.

Maximus Alexander

ericzeking wrote: »

Interesting that we are apparently signing this guy again...who is picking our signings, since Moyes also wanted him apparently?
Could LVG have watched him that much in the context of signing him for United?
Personally, I think LVG was working as United manager well before Moyes was sacked.

Or did United just go to LVG and say, 'Hey Louis, we can get this guy handy enough, we dealt with him last summer...' and LVG just said, 'yesh, he'll do and I'll work my oranje spell on him and make him fantastice'

It's an interesting question, since Van Gaal would have no reason to have looked at this player in the last few years working with the Netherlands. None of the Dutch squad play in Spain and Herrera has no international caps.

I wonder if he was handed a list of players that were being scouted in the last year before the WC kicked off and had a look through some reports / videos to make a decision on them. Or is this signing just being made over his head?

It's a weird one.

billyhead

I still think this is a huge gamble. . The amount of money we have wasted away on supposed talents i.e Anderson, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba is ridiculous. Its proven quality that will go straight into the first team we need not another potential squad player. Will he be a 1st teamer? (doubt it)

Trigger

billyhead wrote: »

I still think this is a huge gamble. . The amount of money we have wasted away on supposed talents i.e Anderson, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba is ridiculous. Its proven quality that will go straight into the first team we need not another potential squad player. Will he be a 1st teamer? (doubt it)

I'd have him ahead of Cleverly, Anderson, Felliani and maybe Carrick every day of he week

Lord TSC

billyhead wrote: »

I still think this is a huge gamble. . The amount of money we have wasted away on supposed talents i.e Anderson, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba is ridiculous. Its proven quality that will go straight into the first team we need not another potential squad player. Will he be a 1st teamer? (doubt it)

You think we're spending that much money on a squad player? He's absolutely a first team buy for us.

And while I agree to an extent it would be nice to get top level talents, the reality is we're at a huge disadvantage there. The types of players we all might want (Vidal, for instance) will likely have plenty of offers from clubs with more to offer (money and CL football).

TheDoc

StaticAge11 wrote: »

He has a buy-out clause in his contract of 28million sterling. Thats increasing to 32 million in a weeks time. The smart move would be to have him before that, few extra funds available for bulking up the defence.

Also saw in a few papers this morning that its looking like around 30 million plus for Shaw. Great player but not worth that. Just shows how ridiculous the money has gotten in the sport

A lot of people will question why we fans care about what we spend. Aslong as we get the players. It's a fair point, but I take interest in it considering we are funding our budgets from our own revenue streams, not some backwater channel from princes or oil cash.

Personally, I don't think an 18 yr old English left back is worth that money. He has one season of exposure at Southampton, a club where if we are frank, players in good form stand out at large, over say a big club where you have more star studded names and maybe more high level performances.

Be interesting to see how Shaw does against Costa Rica.

I don't buy the " we are buying for the future", a lot of people claiming stardom for this lad after one season at Southampton. Impossible to say he will be "world class" and even more ridiculous justifying the value in that regard.

Ox Chamberlain had the same sort of stuff banded around him, and he's been littered with injuries and hasn't developed into the star arsenal expected. Although time on his side.

Jack Wilshere was lauded as the English Xavi, again littered with injury and stuttering through every season.

Theo Walcott was the next big thing, absolutely braindead winger with bags of pace and good finishing, but again suffering injury year after year.

You can literally fill a book with English players lauded as the next big thing, that have stuttered there way through developement years and really not become anything of note.

It's worth remembering that Kieran gibbs was being labelled the heir to Gary Neville, and was causing a stir, only to end being a injury prone mess.

this is just the facts and the historical evidence, eradicating certain opinion or mitigating factors. Like for example I believe English players, for what reason I don't know, have the mental capacity and ability to become world class, genuinely world class. They are concerned with critism, pressure simply get's to them, and when it comes to the crunch, they just buckle.

England in this world cup somewhat verify my thoughts. In all the other teams where their big players step up, and younger players are given some freedom of pressure in order to perform and express themselves, England do the exact opposite.

Their senior players hide and dont perform, and ALL the pressure and expectation goes onto the young players.

While on one level I find the circus around Rooney this WC ridiculous, I also somewhat feel he's personafied that English failure at the highest level. Built up to be the hero, talks the talk in terms of "being ready", then is somewhat abject in the games themselves.

Sturridge may be in lightning form for Liverpool, as in Sterling, but Rooney is an experienced senior player. PL titles, CL titles and everything that comes with it. And he seemed on the periphery at times.

Although the flipside is that Hodgson didn't utilise him properly, and gain the benefit from that experience.

DM_7

TheDoc wrote: »

Contracts arnt worth the paper they are written on to be fair.

I'm sure the club can inform the player they are looking to move him on, and can sell him if they receive an offer that matches their evaluation.

Berbatov didn't want to leave and was under contract, they really are just the biggest load of bollox ever, which is MENTAL considering in reality, they should be binding.

If they were worth the paper they were written on, you wouldn't see the length of contracts people get. Why would anyone in their right mind bind themselves to pay X for an asset that can fluctuate in performance and return on investment so much.

It's just a big sham that meant something in decades gone by, but means nothing now.

They can't sell a player without his agreement. Malouda is a good example of what happens when a player says no.

bangkok

Ander Herrera is a cracking player, anyone who follows la liga closely will have seen some of his outstanding performances. Really looking forward to see him blossoming in the Utd midfield. exactly what we need

MagicIRL

Herrera would'nt walk in to United's first team? I've read it all now.

Have you seen just how shít Tom Cleverly is in a CM role? What about Michael 'the sideways pass' Carrick? Darren Fletcher is prone to illness at any minute so he's pretty much a back-up, back-up at this stage.

Herrera and Strootman or Herrera and De Jong, or all three I reckon will be in United's midfield. As much as I want Vidal...

kryogen

Kleberson and Djemba x 2 wouldnt have cost 9million between them if memory serves right, sure you would almost get one Bebe for the two of them!

Kleberson had also come as a World Cup winner, he just wasn't good enough unfortunately, league certainly didn't suit him, Djemba was a feckin disaster, but he was a very cheap punt. Anderson cost big money alright, north of £20million for sure at this stage considering the club success and his appearances, but he was the highest rated young midfielder in the world at that point, that is not an exaggeration either.

Herrera will be a first teamer if bought, he is a very highly rated player in Spain, he was excellent as the season went on for Bilbao and he is on the verge of replacing the elder statesmen in the Spanish squad.

TheDoc

Maximus Alexander wrote: »

It's an interesting question, since Van Gaal would have no reason to have looked at this player in the last few years working with the Netherlands. None of the Dutch squad play in Spain and Herrera has no international caps.

I wonder if he was handed a list of players that were being scouted in the last year before the WC kicked off and had a look through some reports / videos to make a decision on them. Or is this signing just being made over his head?

It's a weird one.

In fairness I'm not reading too much into who did or did not play in terms of Spain this tournament.

Del Bosque made a serious blunder going withthe established names who simply lacked the hunger to go win another tournament, instead of blending in new faces in order to have some exuberant youth trying to impress and stake a claim.

While it is pretty hard to remove some stellar names, and all this to be honest is with the benefit of hindsight( I didnt expect Spain to be so weak, and anyone that did is a pure liar) but Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets and PIque all had tugid seasons with Barca, and some of them nursing injury concerns going into the WC. Casilles was a major liability, Busquets has been utterly dreadful, the team has no width, and Costa was being integrated into an established squad, that caused disruption.

I think if Del Bosque could go back in time, would have been different players in the mix, Herrera potentially one of them.

I think his exclusion is to our benefit. If he did play he probably would have done well, and as part of a number of changes got Spain through that group whereby his price would have inflated.

As it stands now, there is a good arguement that he cant get a sniff into a decrepit Spanish midfield, and for Woodward to argue with Athletic that their evaluation is skewed.

billyhead

billyhead wrote: »

I still think this is a huge gamble. . The amount of money we have wasted away on supposed talents i.e Anderson, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba is ridiculous. Its proven quality that will go straight into the first team we need not another potential squad player. Will he be a 1st teamer? (doubt it)

Why is it a gamble? He's class & he's only 24, exactly what we need.

Let LVG develop him. It's a new style of play and system that we need to push towards. I have faith in LVG and his choices, especially after watching Holland over the last couple of weeks.

Spazdarn

kryogen wrote: »

Kleberson and Djemba x 2 wouldnt have cost 9million between them if memory serves right, sure you would almost get one Bebe for the two of them!

Kleberson had also come as a World Cup winner, he just wasn't good enough unfortunately, league certainly didn't suit him, Djemba was a feckin disaster, but he was a very cheap punt. Anderson cost big money alright, north of £20million for sure at this stage considering the club success and his appearances, but he was the highest rated young midfielder in the world at that point, that is not an exaggeration either.

Yeah Anderson coming to United was fairly huge at the time, he was pretty good for the first season or two till he found Burger King.,,

TheDoc

kryogen wrote: »

Herrera will be a first teamer if bought, he is a very highly rated player in Spain, he was excellent as the season went on for Bilbao and he is on the verge of replacing the elder statesmen in the Spanish squad.

Herrera became very unsettled with the whole fiasco last summer, and was dropped by the coach for the first few weeks to he could get himself back in order. Nothing stroppy from the player, just unsettled, as you would when maybe you think your moving to another country, getting things in order and it turns out to be rubbish.

When he was mentally ready again he came straight back into the squad, regained his place, and had another impressive season.

kryogen

ToiletFusion wrote: »

Yeah Anderson coming to United was fairly huge at the time, he was pretty good for the first season or two till he found Burger King.,,

Don't think he ever fully got sorted after the broken legs tbh. Shame, other then that he was ****ed around positionally and role wise which just ruined what was left.

Hope he gets a few years more in Brazil or Portugal though, very likeable character

TheDoc

If we are going to spunk £30+m on a 18 year old LB with one year exposure to the premier league, I'd have no hesitation spending £28m on a midfielder with extensive La Liga experience and European experience, and at an age where his ability is somewhat more defined and a safe bet.

Crimson King

Anyone else surprised and delighted Herrara is actually joining, considering how much we fcuked him around last Summer? I still cringe when I think of the whole fiasco

redbaron_99

billyhead wrote: »

I still think this is a huge gamble. . The amount of money we have wasted away on supposed talents i.e Anderson, Kleberson, Djemba-Djemba is ridiculous. Its proven quality that will go straight into the first team we need not another potential squad player. Will he be a 1st teamer? (doubt it)

You're making baby Jesus cry.
He will stroll into our first team. He's competing with Carrick and Cleverly FFS.

keane2097

I'm eternally baffled by people on forums thinking that soccer professionals know less about soccer than themselves.

We had LVG wouldn't know who England international Tom Cleverley is if he tapped him on the shoulder in a bar the last day, now we also think LVG probably knows the square route of **** all about a lad playing CM for one of the best teams in Spain.

This is Louis van Gaal we're talking about here lads, not your mate Joby who only watches the Champions League because Sky Sports is too dear.

****in hell.

redbaron_99

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm eternally baffled by people on forums thinking that soccer professionals know less about soccer than themselves.

We had LVG wouldn't know who England international Tom Cleverley is if he tapped him on the shoulder in a bar the last day, now we also think LVG probably knows the square route of **** all about a lad playing CM for one of the best teams in Spain.

This is Louis van Gaal we're talking about here lads, not your mate Joby who only watches the Champions League because Sky Sports is too dear.

****in hell.

I had this out the other day with another poster. He thought Van Gaal wouldn't know what Evans and Cleverly look like.

keane2097

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I had this out the other day with another poster. He thought Van Gaal wouldn't know what Evans and Cleverly look like.

Yeah I was in a tent so didn't bother replying but loled hard.

Crimson King

If only United had some medium as a way of showing their matches to a broader audience than the UK and Ireland? Someone should get on that straightaway.

Anyone watching the WC today in Brazil btw?

OdgeXD

RichFTW wrote: »

Or making a piss poor attempt to block the shot for the first US goal. He showed signs of good play but topped it off with the usual Nani crap. He's had enough chances to return to his great form of a few years ago, time to cash out and £12m is a decent price to get for him.

Anyway you're wasting your time here giving out about Nani, he could stab the ref and the Nani love brigade in here would still defend him. I'll never understand the blind faith he gets here so I just agree to disagree.

I think he needs a run of games for people to change their opinions, that's what has happened with Young and Valencia. A few games for Nani and people would realise he's no better than either of them and isn't good enough to play for United.

shadowcomplex

Sign William Calvalho now too and our central midfield is sorted, we can go for Strootman too in january or next summer as Louis does like 3 in the centre at times

MagicIRL

keane2097 wrote: »

I'm eternally baffled by people on forums thinking that soccer professionals know less about soccer than themselves.

We had LVG wouldn't know who England international Tom Cleverley is if he tapped him on the shoulder in a bar the last day, now we also think LVG probably knows the square route of **** all about a lad playing CM for one of the best teams in Spain.

This is Louis van Gaal we're talking about here lads, not your mate Joby who only watches the Champions League because Sky Sports is too dear.

****in hell.

This.

Let's not forget that LvG played two up front against Spain because he knew that Spainish defenders are not used to playing against two up front. The man is football.