Manchester United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread - Mod Notes in OP,22/7

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

the summer of 2011 should have been the summer we sorted out the CM mess. 3 years on and its only starting.

I remember being hugely frustrated in the build up to the 2nd CL final against Barca because we were probably going to see a midfield of Carrick and Giggs, and I just couldn't understand why after the first spanking we hadn't addressed the midfield issue. To my complete lack of surprise we were subsequently destroyed in midfield and lost the CL final.

Three years after that day we still had a midfield of Carrick and Giggs going up against City in a vital league match.

Call it rotting, stagnant or whatever you want but what happened with that midfield over the last five seasons of Fergies reign was horrible mismanagement, no two ways about it.

homerjay2005

Lord TSC wrote: »

Just because Event A (Signing Mata) preceded Non-Event B (Not signing anyone else) doesn't mean that A caused B. That's a massive logical fallacy.

I don't for one second believe that we didn't have the funds or inclination to try signing other players than Mata; I think that the problems were with the fact Moyes was our manager (Players didn't trust him, either in terms of his vision or that he'd still be there 6 months later).

there is only a certain amount of money we have to spend on transfers - we are a business, we have debts to pay and we have budgets to hit, as well as share commitments and everything else that comes with financial management of a football club.

its simple business matemathics, if have we spent £60m of our transfer budget on Herrera and Shaw (£97m inc Mata), then that of course is going to effect our spending power in bigger deals.

v3ttel

Anybody have a way to watch the presser? I'm not near a TV to catch it.

Cantona's Collars

v3ttel wrote: »

Anybody have a way to watch the presser? I'm not near a TV to catch it.

pm sent.

The Moldy Gowl

Surely Moyes knew about the midfield problems. Is that too much to think of a manager who has played against us about 30 odd times in however many years he was in the PL.

If he signed Fab he might have done ok, but why didnt he go for the B option?

Like a player whom he scoutd at everton who would have been hard for them to get but easy for united?


I dont think we will have these problems with LVG, players respect him more and know he will be good, rather than a manager who is unknown outside of England

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

there is only a certain amount of money we have to spend on transfers - we are a business, we have debts to pay and we have budgets to hit, as well as share commitments and everything else that comes with financial management of a football club.

its simple business matemathics, if have we spent £60m of our transfer budget on Herrera and Shaw (£97m inc Mata), then that of course is going to effect our spending power in bigger deals.

I disagree. I don't think there is a finite budget as you would present.

Ie. I don't think there is a 100million budget and we have spent 60 of it.

I reckon the Glazers will sanction an amount of spending on particular players (per player), and nothing beyond that. I don't think if we got Shaw for 10million less it would mean the Glazers would allow that 10million to be spent on someone else too.

I reckon we have our targets, a valuation of those targets, and we will do deals for as close to (or below...arf!) those valuations, and there isn't really an issue of overspending or saving.

Will I Amnt

homerjay2005 wrote: »

there is only a certain amount of money we have to spend on transfers - we are a business, we have debts to pay and we have budgets to hit, as well as share commitments and everything else that comes with financial management of a football club.

its simple business matemathics, if have we spent £60m of our transfer budget on Herrera and Shaw (£97m inc Mata), then that of course is going to effect our spending power in bigger deals.

Who says there's not another 100m to spend on a couple of midfielders?
Unless you know the exact player budget it's beyond arguing.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

he had the best midfield ever in the premier league that we ill probably never see again in beckham scholes keane giggs and he tried numerous times to improve that. signed veron and he flopped. owen hargreves was a top player but injuries took him away. signed kleberson a world cup winner and he wasn't up to it. Djemba djembe was meant to be the best midfielder in france. the list goes on.

Go away of that.

Its over a full decade since that midfield four played together, and its 11 years since Veron left the club. 11 years since Kleberson and Djemba Djemba signed, 9 years since they left. Hargreaves signed 7 years ago.

If thats supposed to be a defence of the transfer policy all it does is highlight how lacking it really was.

The Moldy Gowl

Dont forget Liam Miller

Pro. F

redbaron_99 wrote: »

I'm not actually.

Vidic Ferdinand Evra of 2008 were a completely different prospect to the same players 5 years later. Rotting defence.

Hargreaves, Carrick, Scholes, pre-illness Fletcher were far superior to Carrick and Scholes 5 years later, post illness Fletcher, Cleverley and Anderson. Rotting midfield.

Ronaldo - Valencia

I could keep going. Couldn't be arsed.

The squad not being as good when Fergie left as one of the best squads we've ever had does not mean that the squad was slowly rotting.

FutureGuy

This thread today.

Jesus...

Mitch Connor

Pro. F wrote: »

The squad not being as good when Fergie left as one of the best squads we've ever had does not mean that the squad was slowly rotting.

its not even close though. THe 08 side would hammer last seasons side (and the previous seasons side) in much the same way most top teams were able to.

There have been some great signings in that time, but the overall level of the squad has dropped massively - and that should not have been allowed to happen. The lack of attention paid to central midfield was a joke.

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

Go away of that.

Its over a full decade since that midfield four played together, and its 11 years since Veron left the club. 11 years since Kleberson and Djemba Djemba signed, 9 years since they left. Hargreaves signed 7 years ago.

If thats supposed to be a defence of the transfer policy all it does is highlight how lacking it really was.

maybe the world class midfielders we wanted were not available or were just not there..

like the lack of top class central defenders in the world right now. Barcelona one of the top clubs in the world has a central midfielder playing there for them and Real Madrid still have pepe starting every game for them.

The Moldy Gowl

You're so cranky Homer. Tomorrow is friday, LVG had a full day today. He should be finished his induction.

We have dollaz, a few million here or there wont make a difference in the long term.

I dont think we have a budget, there is targets for positions and the glazers will sanction money for the targets.

Dont be worrying about money, we are a money making machine and will continue to be.

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

maybe the world class midfielders we wanted were not available or were just not there..

For ten years?

The Moldy Gowl

bangkok wrote: »

maybe the world class midfielders we wanted were not available or were just not there..

like the lack of top class central defenders in the world right now. Barcelona one of the top clubs in the world has a central midfielder playing there for them and Real Madrid still have pepe starting every game for them.

Ahhh Bangkok, never change.

user2011

zerks wrote: »

pm sent.

Nudge nudge

DARK-KNIGHT

FutureGuy wrote: »

This thread today.

Jesus...

ffs this thread is killing me a little inside

bangkok

bucketybuck wrote: »

For ten years?

put it this way, if you listed the top 5 central midfielders in the world right now and the top 5 strikers, how many of them would you actually be able to sign?

Id say if you were lucky 1

DARK-KNIGHT

bucketybuck wrote: »

For ten years?

no value in the market.

DARK-KNIGHT

bangkok wrote: »

put it this way, if you listed the top 5 central midfielders in the world right now and the top 5 strikers, how many of them would you actually be able to sign?

Id say if you were lucky 1

how are you defending midfield crisis ffs

bangkok

Gowlasauras Rex wrote: »

Ahhh Bangkok, never change.

sure what? Barcelona had a 35 year old puyol, mascherano and pique at the back for them the last number of years, do you not think they would try to address that? maybe they did and the players were not available.

Pepe is going into his 8th season at centre back for real Madrid!!!

Spazdarn

bangkok wrote: »

ah stop, how exactly?

fergie signed a goal keeper that will probably be the best in the world in a few years and united goalie for the next 10-15 years

signed Rafael for right back, got in the best young defender in Britain to replace rio and vidic in jones. signed smalling for a great price still time for him to develop into a top defender.

What?

Rafael a liability, Jones was very expensive for what little experience he had, and Smallings price is most certainly not great.

Rayne Wooney

Nobody is saying Fergie left a bunch of amateurs but I think it's clear the team he left just wasn't good enough for anyone accept maybe him and especially when he had chosen a successor with such little pedigree

He got out on a final high instead of staying and starting the rebuild, he was entitled to go whenever he wanted after what he did for the club but I think he should have started a rebuild before he left.

brinty

10 minutes until LVG shows his hand
i expect 3 new signings to be unveiled
stone cold stunners to Ogden, Ducker, taylor et al
Ed and LVG to chug some cold ones and p155 all over the downed journalists

Lets get some optimism going in here FFS lads...

ericzeking

#FergieOut

alchemist33

alchemist33 wrote: »

TalkSport said they were going to broadcast it, if that's any good to anyone.

Its on here at work from satellite through a stereo in the office,listen to it everyday!

Crimson King

brinty wrote: »

10 minutes until LVG shows his handi

It's like waiting for Santa :P

bucketybuck

bangkok wrote: »

put it this way, if you listed the top 5 central midfielders in the world right now and the top 5 strikers, how many of them would you actually be able to sign?

Id say if you were lucky 1

And what does that have to do with anything?

You defended the squad by saying Fergie had tried to improve the midfield and pointing to the signings of Veron, Kleberson and Djemba Djemba, signings that were made a full decade ago!

Are you now saying that midfield was neglected so badly because nobody is able to buy top midfielders? For ten years Manchester United were unable to buy a top midfielder because there were none? Are you aware of just how ridiculous that sounds?

bangkok

DARK-KNIGHT wrote: »

how are you defending midfield crisis ffs

not defending it but you cannot say it was never addressed.

Carrick has been a top player for united
they got very unlucky with fletchers sickness
Anderson won the golden boy award and never progressed
hargreves got injured
veron was poor
pogba could have been the answer but left