Minimum years residency in order to get citizenship

Currently the minimum number of years you have to be living in Ireland before getting citizenship is 5.

I think this number is from a different era when there wasn't anywhere close to the level of immigration into Ireland, legal or otherwise.

I know a couple of people who have obtained citizenship after 5 years who are solely doing it to get a passport and the rights that go with that. They have no interest in staying in Ireland permanently, they don't feel Irish, and they don't want to feel Irish.

It makes me feel sad and thinks we're giving citizenship away too cheaply. It's not such a human sacrifice for people in their 20's to more from a poorer country for a better paid job in a better economy only to have to live here 5 years. Especially given the cheaper air travel, Skype etc that exists in our modern world.

What are people's thoughts?

not yet

Deleted User wrote: »

Currently the minimum number of years you have to be living in Ireland before getting citizenship is 5.

I think this number is from a different era when there wasn't anywhere close to the level of immigration into Ireland, legal or otherwise.

I know a couple of people who have obtained citizenship after 5 years who are solely doing it to get a passport and the rights that go with that. They have no interest in staying in Ireland permanently, they don't feel Irish, and they don't want to feel Irish.

It makes me feel sad and thinks we're giving citizenship away too cheaply. It's not such a human sacrifice for people in their 20's to more from a poorer country for a better paid job in a better economy only to have to live here 5 years. Especially given the cheaper air travel, Skype etc that exists in our modern world.

What are people's thoughts?

Ah sure aren't we all Europeans.

desultory

Let them at it. I got myself an Irish passport and I wasn't even born here. Picked up all the begrudgery and everything though, wouldn't wish that on anyone.

desultory

desultory wrote: »

Let them at it. I got myself an Irish passport and I wasn't even born here. Picked up all the begrudgery and everything though, wouldn't wish that on anyone.

What if it (hypothetically, obviously) gets to the stage that 100 million people moved to Ireland?

Would you be fine with that?

If not, where would you draw the line?

shruikan2553

Isnt there a 950 euro charge for Irish citizenship? I may be wrong but if Im right we arent exactl giving it away cheaply.

I have no issues with it, I may do the same in another country some day.

desultory

Deleted User wrote: »

What if it (hypothetically, obviously) gets to the stage that 100 million people moved to Ireland?

Would you be fine with that?

If not, where would you draw the line?

Well I'm leaving Ireland in the next month(again) so yeah I guess I'd be ok with it. I don't know where I'd draw the line. I'd go by employement percentages for that.

Maphisto

Deleted User wrote: »

What if it (hypothetically, obviously) gets to the stage that 100 million people moved to Ireland?

Would you be fine with that?

If not, where would you draw the line?

Cripes we'd sink

kneemos

Can't see how it matters.

How does it matter?

PizzamanIRL

As soon as you touch Irish soil you should be given citizenship, begorrah.

Annasopra

kneemos wrote: »

Can't see how it matters.

How does it matter?

Exactly - cant see what the big deal is at all

Standman

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

Mountainsandh

Yeah, I think 5 years is too little too. Citizenship is a big deal imo. 10 years. Unless someone married here before that.

I'm here 17 years. Don't think I would or could possibly have considered myself Irish after 5 years.

(still don't really, so I'm still fully French, although the voting right is an issue at this stage)

It is a bit heart breaking when you think of refugees who have genuine good reason to stay though, don't know the ins and outs of it, if they have equal rights to work etc... after a few years with a "settled refugee" sort of status, then I don't see the need for a short 5 year rule.

Alf. A. Male

An era when there was less immigration? There hasn't been one. Celts, Normans, British and what have you, we've always had immigration in some form, as an island and as a state. And do you have an argument against the current regulations other than a wooly phrase like "giving it away cheaply"?

wretcheddomain

Standman wrote: »

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

Then Nigel Farage will move over to try and kick them (somehow) into Romania and Bulgaria.

wendell borton

Was just watching a documentary on tg4 that made the point that there are three things that define nationality: your homeland, your culture and most important your language.

Peregrine

It should just be a test to see how many Father Ted lines they can quote. None of this 5 years crap.

shopaholic01

Standman wrote: »

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

Multiply that by €950 each for residency. We'd be rich. RICH!

wretcheddomain

30 years (even for Irish born) - if anyone leaves the country as an emigrant then the counter goes back down to zero. Stops all the young people emigrating.

There should be a permit system for the immigrants and auto-removal after a defined period.

Cost of citizenship: €1,500 per person, every 2 years.

kneemos

Standman wrote: »

But what if a billions immigrantz move here?

So....?

Mountainsandh

Alf. A. Male wrote: »

And do you have an argument against the current regulations other than a wooly phrase like "giving it away cheaply"?

I think citizenship is different from residency though.
Imo it is a very big deal, you're not just giving people the right to stay, it's part of one's identity.

Boskowski

Anyone who goes somewhere to work for 5 years and better themselves should be welcomed with open arms. Its a lot more than can be said for a sizeable chunk of the natives. This is true in many countries including my own and also Ireland.

I reject that notion of blood or heritage or whatever you wanna call it making someone more worthy over someone who works hard, pays taxes and is generally a functioning and contributing member of society.

Mer personally, I couldn't care less whether I have an Irish passport or not. I could have switched a long time ago, but I don't want to. I'm not Irish and no matter how long I live here it won't change that. Plus bar the full voting rights for the dail (which I can do without, thank you very much) I can see very little tangible stuff where I'm at a disadvantage without an Irish passport. I'm from another EU state btw.

I assume you're talking about non-EU citizens then?

Mountainsandh

Boskowski, 5 years is nothing though.
You could work 5 years here and still be a tourist, imo.

edit : just checking there, there are long term residency arrangements in place, so really no need to flog out citizenships after 5 years.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/moving_country/moving_to_ireland/rights_of_residence_in_ireland/residence_rights_of_non_eea_nationals_in_ireland.html

kneemos

If you're eligible to live and work here you should be entitled to a passport
Dunno how many actually apply for one in any case.

Mountainsandh

kneemos wrote: »

If you're eligible to live and work here you should be entitled to a passport
Dunno how many actually apply for one in any case.

So an American freshly landed with a job here and accommodation sorted should be granted citizenship immediately ? or do you mean after the 5 years ?

I still think 5 years is too little.

The long term residency arrangements allow one to work and live here. (see link above)

Boskowski

I have no issues if people for whom this whole blood, heritage, diddley eye thing is very important would like to make it 10 or 20 or whatever. I agree 5 years won't make you Irish. But neither will 20 unless you came here age 5.

I think working, paying taxes and not breaking laws for 5 years is as good a criteria as any.

Me personally I have very little sentimental feelings towards any country including my own. Sure I love my Nationalmannschaft and my food and my folks but if I hadn't family or friends over there my desire to go 'home' wouldn't be any greater than going to Portugal on holidays for example. Home is where you make it.

Alf. A. Male

Alf. A. Male wrote: »

An era when there was less immigration? There hasn't been one. Celts, Normans, British and what have you, we've always had immigration in some form, as an island and as a state. And do you have an argument against the current regulations other than a wooly phrase like "giving it away cheaply"?

The question I posed doesn't have a scientifically proven answer. It's subjective. I game my opinion in the first post.

Also, Celts, Normans, British weren't "immigrants" coming here hoping to settle in and get a job. They were mostly invading armies who wanted to steal the land if my history is correct (could be wrong).

comongethappy

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The question I posed doesn't have a scientifically proven answer. It's subjective. I game my opinion in the first post.

Also, Celts, Normans, British weren't "immigrants" coming here hoping to settle in and get a job. They were mostly invading armies who wanted to steal the land if my history is correct (could be wrong).

Most waves of early immigration werent that organised, it was a slow process.

5 years is perfectly fine imo.
What difference would doubling it make?

Mountainsandh

I agree some bit with you B, but you don't need to want to "go home" to feel you're a national of a place, imo.

I don't want to live in France, but I'm still French.

I suppose I do have a sentimental view of this.
If I asked for double nationality, even after 17 years, I would take it very seriously, it would really mean something. (not a hope in hell I could "undo" my Frenchyness altogether).

So the 5 years is shocking to me.

True, you could be here 30 years and not consider yourself Irish, but if you ask for citizenship after 10 years, chances are you mean it more than if you do after 5 years.

kneemos

Mountainsandh wrote: »

So an American freshly landed with a job here and accommodation sorted should be granted citizenship immediately ? or do you mean after the 5 years ?

I still think 5 years is too little.

The long term residency arrangements allow one to work and live here. (see link above)

Good enough to work and pay tax then good enough for a passport.
What do you want for them to become "Irish"before they get one.
As I say I doubt that many apply anyway.

aidoh

Mountainsandh

comongethappy wrote: »

Most waves of early immigration werent that organised, it was a slow process.

5 years is perfectly fine imo.
What difference would doubling it make?

I think a big one. It's another 5 years a person has to make up their mind if they're really staying. It's going past the honeymoon phase, the 7 year itch for example.

It's another 5 years of absorbing the country's culture.