I hate bike lanes

Michelin

I sincerely hope Councils, in particular Dublin Corpo stop putting in bike lanes, there a complete sham and very dangerous to ride on with a racer in many places. But the worst thing when you are riding in a bus lane or on the road with a dodgy bike lane running alongside, motorists and in particular public service vehicle drivers feel they are within there right to blow you off the road or even squeeze you out.
Am I right or wrong?

68 lost souls

I would rather see them put in proper bike lanes than remove bike lanes. A nice road surface rather than that shoddy red surface that breaks up easily, on a seperate level to the road and path so you don't get broken break lights and other car parts and also you don't get walkers and runners in the way as well as avoiding the sloped exit of driveways. The other thing that drives me nuts is cars parked on the bike lane which I see happen all to often.

CramCycle

68 lost souls wrote: »

on a seperate level to the road and path so you don't get broken break lights and other car parts and also you don't get walkers and runners in the way as well as avoiding the sloped exit of driveways.

Disagree here, having at a different level to the road seems to give the impression we are separate from other traffic in all circumstances and you end up losing priority at junctions because motorised vehicles have seen you on a different level and will treat you like peds.

check_six

CramCycle wrote: »

Disagree here, having at a different level to the road seems to give the impression we are separate from other traffic in all circumstances and you end up losing priority at junctions because motorised vehicles have seen you on a different level and will treat you like peds.

"Will ignore you until you make a dent in their door as they swing into your path" is probably closer to the truth.

I agree with the disagreement here. A different level does not work too well. Bits of the track on the N11 Stillorgan Road in Dublin are well separated from the footpath and raised from the road, but are a pain to use. Bitter experience of getting stuck behind someone while I was towing a trailer led me to this conclusion.

Also, that bit of track beside the Grand Canal is separated from the road and the path and I wouldn't use that one in a fit ("Look! It's any junction! Welcome to making a serious effort to avoid getting a bang of a car, or waiting for two sequences of lights to change before progressing"). If you are going to have something, a basic stripe of paint on the road works best, if you have a complicated junction, ditch the stripe altogether.

CramCycle

check_six wrote: »

Also, that bit of track beside the Grand Canal is separated from the road and the path and I wouldn't use that one in a fit ("Look! It's any junction! Welcome to making a serious effort to avoid getting a bang of a car, or waiting for two sequences of lights to change before progressing").

One junction in particular, the one where Mount St. crosses the Grand Canal. The crossing traffic gets up to 3 minutes before switching, then 15seconds for peds, 15 for bikes and then 15 for traffic travelling along the canal, its going to cause an accident with the traffic build up and peds but the council are refusing to acknowledge it is an issue after its been reported many times. At least the rest of them have reasonably fast turns (although they are all sensor activated so you have to stop in 95% of situations, unlike the road lights which flick as it will benefit some traffic).

Chips Lovell

CramCycle wrote: »

Disagree here, having at a different level to the road seems to give the impression we are separate from other traffic in all circumstances and you end up losing priority at junctions because motorised vehicles have seen you on a different level and will treat you like peds.

Plus, you've no way of leaving the lane aside from kerb hopping if you find someone pulling up on it or parked on it.

Macy0161

68 lost souls wrote: »

I would rather see them put in proper bike lanes than remove bike lanes. A nice road surface rather than that shoddy red surface that breaks up easily, on a seperate level to the road and path so you don't get broken break lights and other car parts and also you don't get walkers and runners in the way as well as avoiding the sloped exit of driveways. The other thing that drives me nuts is cars parked on the bike lane which I see happen all to often.

In theory I agree, but in my experience even a clearly seperate bicycle path doesn't stop it being used by walkers and runners. Grand Canal has been mentioned already in a different context, but some sections have as many pedestrians using it as cyclists in my experience (between Lesson Street and Baggot Street is a disaster). And that's where there's a much more pleasant footpath along the canal! I'm pretty sure they even ran a "road" running race on the cycle lane on the Wicklow Port Relief Road, rather than use either the road or footpath.

The logic seems to be, going for a stroll - use the footpath. Power Walk/ Run/ Jog - use the cycle lane. Let your dog have a dump - use the cycle lane. Need to clear debris from a crash, including AGS, sweep it into the cycle lane. Car broke down? Push it up off the road onto the cycle lane. Need to catch a few speeders, park the camera van in the cycle lane (as has happened on the N11).

For those reasons I actually prefer an on road cycle lane. When I'm commuting bike I chose the route that is bus lane/ on street cycle lane (Rock and Merrion Road) rather than the one that has a seperate cycle lane for most of it (N11).

68 lost souls

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Plus, you've no way of leaving the lane aside from kerb hopping if you find someone pulling up on it or parked on it.

Yes I can see this being a problem with my scenario alright. Perhaps the separate levels may not be a great idea after all having taken into account the previous comments.

I just see so many problems with the way it is now but I do think there should be designated cycle lanes perhaps even for younger or inexperienced cyclists to keep them safe and as has been pointed out if motorists see cyclists as a separate mode of transport then there should be either 100% separation or integration where no cyclist would need to go on a road as the cycle lanes were all good and in place but obviously this could never happen. Perhaps an outright ban of private cars in urban areas, lol maybe thats just the environmentalist in me.

eeeee

I agree with the disagreement. I think cycle lanes should be gotten rid of, in the city anyway. they re poorly designed and full of shyte. Also, because I don't use them I get bullied in by buses, beeped etc. for not using them, especially on the n11. A line on the road if there has to be one but I don't think segregating cyclists from traffic and consequently dumping them out on top of traffic turning left is not the way to go, as it is currently. And even new cycle lanes are being built this way (see Fosters avenue junction on the N11). Nothing or a line on the side of the road if they have to. Other wise it turns into a dog walking/running/broken glass collection point. And motorists become antagonistic because you are not in what they perceive to be the proper place. Bans etc. no need, just consideration and better design. We all have to share the road, and to be fair 99% of the time it's grand. Just the odd few incidents every now and then mainly from bad design and a lack of understanding I think.

CramCycle

Putting a straight ahead/left turn traffic lane to the left of a left turn only traffic lane. C'mon, where the hell did these planners qualify to be road designers. I can only recall one area in Dublin this was done correctly and it has subsequently been removed.

Chips Lovell

I'd get rid of them all and use the budget for road maintenance.

They're a menace and often do more harm than good. They're also used as a stick to beat cyclists with, e.g. "they spent x amount building this cycle lane and you won't use it".

CramCycle

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

I'd get rid of them all and use the budget for road maintenance.

They're a menace and often do more harm than good. They're also used as a stick to beat cyclists with, e.g. "they spent x amount building this cycle lane and you won't use it".

Its like religious relatives giving out I won't pay tithes or pray even though I was educated at a Catholic school for 13 years. I told them half way through that I didn't want anything to do with it and yet they are still disappointed in me for not using the thing that I never asked for and never wanted.

sorry for the poor analogy, best I could do

bambergbike

The devil is in the detail. In general I prefer painted on-road lanes to raised tracks as it's easier to escape from them when needed (to make a right turn, to overtake aother cyclist, to get round an obstacle), but I wouldn't dismiss raised tracks out of hand.

A raised track can be very pleasant when it stays at the same level as it crosses side roads rather than dipping up and down. When a major cycle route intersects with a minor road, it can make sense to keep the cyclists on the major cycle route on a level, even, comfortable surface, and to ensure turning traffic yields to straight-on cyclists by making the cycle track double-up as a speed bump across the mouth of a junction.

But there are tonnes of raised tracks out there that are terrifying and horrible to use. Kerb separation isn't a solution in itself, it's just a tool that can be used to create good and bad solutions.

There are also loads of possible half-way houses between the two poles of kerb-separated raised tracks and cycle infrastructure which separates cars and bikes only by a painted line. Planters, armadillos, posts, bollards - all sorts of stuff can be used to put buffer space between cyclists and motorists and calm traffic without making it impossible or very difficult for cyclists to switch between the cycle lane and the main carriageway as needed. Again, none of this stuff is a solution in itself - sometimes it might represent an improvement, sometimes filling narrow cycle lanes with extra clutter could make things worse for cyclists.

Any design element can be deployed well or deployed badly. There are no magic bullets and perfect design elements that can just magic away problems - different solutions will work in different places.

From a campaigning point of view, it's probably best to demand quality infrastructure without getting too hung up on the precise design elements that could be used to realize it, although I accept that cyclists will have to point out that particular options are rubbish within the framework of consultations on specific projects.

the.red.baron

Non-segregated most of the time, this works pretty well, typically cars take heed of it and it's better alright for dealing with right of way with side roads and people turning across you.

Plus it's cheap

Segregated when it suits and there is the space for it, that means wide enough for 2, longer stretches with no side roads and faster moving traffic. Return it to the road before junctions etc or go over them for say the m50. This works for me. N roads, interchanges with the m50 etc, much more pleasurable away from 100kph traffic.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

They are the dumping ground for all the broken glass in the country apparently. And manhole covers. Manhole covers everywhere.

AdMMM

CramCycle wrote: »

One junction in particular, the one where Mount St. crosses the Grand Canal. The crossing traffic gets up to 3 minutes before switching, then 15seconds for peds, 15 for bikes and then 15 for traffic travelling along the canal, its going to cause an accident with the traffic build up and peds but the council are refusing to acknowledge it is an issue after its been reported many times. At least the rest of them have reasonably fast turns (although they are all sensor activated so you have to stop in 95% of situations, unlike the road lights which flick as it will benefit some traffic).

Pretty sure I saw a mobile CCTV pole erected in this very spot when walking there earlier on today with the sticker mentioning something about Traffic monitoring on it.

dave_o_brien

The majority of cycle lanes in Ireland (and many other countries) are designed to facilitate motorised traffic at the cost of convenience to the cyclist. The best designed ones ensure that a cyclist, who uses the system and obeys it's rules, is safe, but that does not mean that the system is convenient. This contrasts with drivers expectations, whereby surely a system designed for you must be convenient. It also contrasts with the experiences one encounters in a minority of other countries where cycle lane usage is far more pleasant. These are designed to facilitate the users of the cyclist at the cost of the motorist. There's no real appetite for changing who is prioritised here among local authorities or politicians.

.ak

If the cycle lane is clear and smooth I cycle in them. I actually like the red stuff (if it holds together, but more than often is breaks up, however sold the council that stuff is a cowboy) because it separates the cars and drivers rarely drift into it, it's a great visual aid for drivers.

However if it's a busy bus channel (say O'Connell st for example) I'll always cycle on the main road. I actually got clipped in my first week cycling on O'Connell st because a car decided they needed to squeeze into the cycle lane whilst beside me to over take a car just to get to a red light 20m away.... :rolleyes: Good lesson for me anyway. Pretend you're a car, stay infront of traffic if needs be, and don't feel embarrassed if you're slowing cars up, just be safe and seen.

No Pants

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

Plus, you've no way of leaving the lane aside from kerb hopping if you find someone pulling up on it or parked on it.

Or not being able to leave it. If I'm coming from Sutton, Howth of Baldoyle, there's the off-road cycle lane on the sea wall. However, if I use that, I can't take my turn into Bayside unless I dismount and carry my bike down some steps while wearing cycling shoes.

Raam

No Pants wrote: »

Or not being able to leave it. If I'm coming from Sutton, Howth of Baldoyle, there's the off-road cycle lane on the sea wall. However, if I use that, I can't take my turn into Bayside unless I dismount and carry my bike down some steps while wearing cycling shoes.

You could probably cycle off the steps and fashion a sweet landing. It would look awesome to any on-coming traffic.

Brian?

So far, I've found one good off road cycle lane in Ireland. It runs from the N 81 to the N7 through Jobstown, Brookfield and the back of Citywest.

It's well designed and would be a joy to use if it wasn't full of glass. Having said that it comes to an abrupt end forcing you down a high kerb or onto to footpath. Infuriating.

Edit: Cheeverstown road.

Once you get over the N7 you have an absolutely shocking cycling lane. You lose right of way at every single roundabout, essientaly grouping you as a pedestrian.

keith16

dave_o_brien wrote: »

There's no real appetite for changing who is prioritised here among local authorities or politicians.

You've hit the nail on the head here. No-one cares. It's the same in all walks of life and cycling is just another microcosm.

Parking on double yellows? Ah shure it's grand.

Cycling with headphones in? I can't hear youuuuuu.

Press the button for the pedestrian crossing...lights turn red 10 minutes later and pedestrian is already home having tea? Wait there anyway.

Break red lights? Drive in the bus lane? Hog the middle lane? Stand in a doorway? Smoke in the playground? LALALALALALALALALA I DON'T CARE ME ME ME ME ME ME ad nauseum.

Michelin

keith16 wrote: »

You've hit the nail on the head here. No-one cares. It's the same in all walks of life and cycling is just another microcosm.

Parking on double yellows? Ah shure it's grand.

Cycling with headphones in? I can't hear youuuuuu.

Press the button for the pedestrian crossing...lights turn red 10 minutes later and pedestrian is already home having tea? Wait there anyway.

Break red lights? Drive in the bus lane? Hog the middle lane? Stand in a doorway? Smoke in the playground? LALALALALALALALALA I DON'T CARE ME ME ME ME ME ME ad nauseum.

Yes, Cycle lanes are bull...t.
It feels safer often riding in a bus lane in Dublin. Off road cycle lanes with that crap red stuff...money wasted everywhere...I cant fathom the lack of intelligence or understand the stupidity of Council Engineers.

macnab

I was just thinking about this issue during my commute today.
I came to the conclusion that if "Cycle Lanes" are the answer then the question must have been:
1. Where are we going to put all these man hole covers.
2. Where will taxi drivers pull over when they need to pick up a fare.
3. Where will taxi drivers park when waiting for people to exit the concert at the O2.
4. Where can we dump all this broken glass.
5. Where are the workmen going to put their "safety" signs.
You get the gist.......

rp

Michelin wrote: »

Yes, Cycle lanes are bull...t.
It feels safer often riding in a bus lane in Dublin.

All bus lanes that aren't contraflow *are* cycle lanes

buffalo

rp wrote: »

All bus lanes that aren't contraflow *are* cycle lanes

*All* bus lanes are cycle lanes.

Jawgap

With some notable exceptions, cycle lanes in Ireland are badly thought out and badly implemented ('ah, just leave the bus stop in the middle of the track, sure they'll know to cycle around it).

I often wonder if the people designing them actually go and cycle the route (either before or after it's laid out)? I doubt they do and the whole philosophy seems to be any cycle lane is better than no cycle lane.

But as regards Dublin I must be wrong, after all it is 9th on the index of bicycle friendly cities in Europe - which suggests other aspects of the environment must be dragging it's sorry arse up the list, because I don't think it's there because of the quality of its cycle tracks.......

CamperMan

saw a cycle lane in Gorey, Co. Wexford last year, hideous.. it was about 300 metres long with a bollard in the middle and cars parked along it....

DirkVoodoo

The new doggy waste bins on the Clontarf bike path are great! The one place in Dublin I've seen them (seriously, even in the parks they are hard to come across) and the place them on the cycle path.

Not only does this create an obstacle for the cyclist to get around, it also encourages pedestrians to cross into and stand in the cycle lane, before crossing back out.

Madness!

rp

buffalo wrote: »

*All* bus lanes are cycle lanes.

I thought that the clarifications made back 2012 allowed for a bus lane (without a picture of a bike on the sign, RUS 030) for contraflow bus lanes? The St Stephen's Green being the poster child for this arrangement. I could be wrong, those S.I.s are fierce hard to understand

cython

Speaking of bike lanes, am I being overly cynical in thinking that this particular idea can only be badly implemented? Excerpt from article below (emphasis is mine):

Plans are being drawn up for a major change in traffic arrangements on Dublin’s north quays which would introduce a new two-way cycle lane and restrict private motorists to one lane instead of two.

So presumably the bus lane will be moved out one from the kerb, and into the current first traffic lane, while the bus lane would become the cycle lane? Personally I feel that while this may alleviate a problem with the south quays in terms of cycling infrastructure (bus lane that cuts in and out according to the street width) by providing an alternative, it may well be a retrograde move for the North quays, as inbound cyclists can currently use the whole width of the bus lane if they need to overtake other cyclists - this will be much tougher on a two-way lane, IMHO. Now of course we will presumably still be permitted to use a bus lane if we wish (for me it would depend on how the cycle lane "flows"), but will likely also draw increased ire from other road users in that scenario as there will now be "a perfectly good cycle lane", and drivers will have "given up" a lane to provide it.

And now, reading back on that, I realise that yes, I have become very jaded