Cork County council to reduce property tax by 15%

Banjo String

Interesting.

CORK County Council has become the first local authority in the country to agree to reduce the Local Property Tax (LPT) in its area.

The motion proposed by the now 10 strong Sinn Féin grouping was passed after a lengthy debate on the matter.

 

Bandon-based Sinn Féin councillor Rachel McCarthy said, “When we canvassed over the past few months the property tax and the inability of people to afford it was a topic which came up often on the doorstep.

“The disappointment that even after paying it there was no improvement in the provision of local services was also very evident. The Sinn Féin party is committed to abolishing the tax if ever in a position to do it at a national level, but at local level a 15% reduction per annum is what we can do and are doing,” she said.

I wonder how many more SF led local authorities will follow suit?

Like this bit from the article.

Clonakilty-based Sinn Féin councillor Paul Hayes said, “Sinn Féin said we would reduce the property tax and that process is now started. We will bring a new transparent way of doing business to County Hall as we said we would. The electorate wanted and voted in favour a break from the cosy consensus which existed and I think we have begun that after just one meeting with getting this motion passed”.

http://westcorktimes.com/home/archives/26143

The cosy cartels ain't gonna like the rocking of the applecarts.

Big Phil is gonna go mad.

Valetta

That'll be all good and well until they come whinging to central government looking for them yo fill the hole in their budget.

comongethappy

I'd love Wicklow to follow suit.

I'd also love SF to explain what local programmes get cut to compensate.

steddyeddy

For a start they could cut the massive waste in county councils and cosy nepotistic back scratching that goes on. Fair play on the transparency issue

Banjo String

Valetta wrote: »

That'll be all good and well until they come whinging to central government looking for them yo fill the hole in their budget.

Do you know or just hope that will Happen?

I am just glad to see a political party following through on pre election promises tbh.

Remind me what did FG say they'd do about property tax before elections?

Chips Lovell

But we all know the property tax is only going to go up...

tipptom

That's about an extra 15 million that big Phil is going to have to find for his beloved consultants before Inda ships him of to Europe to make a show of us there,but he backed Enda and that's the main thing.

That's it, I'm moving my house to cork!

househero

A 15% reduction is not brilliant if they still dont deliver anything.

Paying 85% for nothing isn't a good deal. If they are planning on delivering 0, I would like to pay 0 please... Good Value.

We pay (a lot) for roads, the roads have holes deep enough to chat to my emigrated brother in Oz. Are they being fixed?

The alloy wheel on my car was buckled only last week (still seething after paying 360 for my road tax on the 1st) The alloy will be costing me another 200.

wazky

Valetta wrote: »

That'll be all good and well until they come whinging to central government looking for them yo fill the hole in their budget.

'Nobody will vote for them, it's just populist crap'

'Well they did get in but they will not be enacting any of their policies!'

'Okay they have enacted their polices and I'm losing things to say about them!'

Sierra Oscar

Cork County Council is lead by Fianna Fáil I thought?

Fianna Fáil regains control of Cork as deal struck

I can see this being replicated in the Dublin councils too. It was a key commitment made by most opposition candidates. It will be interesting to see how it works out though because the government certainly wont increase central funding and services still have to be paid for.

Stinicker

I wish Sinn Fein could have taken control of Kerry County Council, there is most awful wastage among Kerry Co. Council. Kenmare town is in the process of getting a new bypass and work has been ongoing in it for over 4 years and it is less than 1km long. Work is carried out by Kerry Co. Council roads crews and if you trained chimpanzees and gave them shovels you'd find the road would be built quicker. It is an absolute disgrace when all road maintaince and construction should be outsourced to the private sector and this road which is 4 years in the making could have been completed in around 4 - 6 weeks for a much smaller cost than Kerry Co. Council who's main aim appears to be as a glorified Social Employment Scheme.

Valetta

wazky wrote: »

'Nobody will vote for them, it's just populist crap'

'Well they did get in but they will not be enacting any of their policies!'

'Okay they have enacted their polices and I'm losing things to say about them!'

You have just quoted my post and added some random words that nobody has said.

Do you have a point to make?

DoesNotCompute

Banjo String wrote: »

Interesting.



I wonder how many more SF led local authorities will follow suit?

Like this bit from the article.



http://westcorktimes.com/home/archives/26143

The cosy cartels ain't gonna like the rocking of the applecarts.

Big Phil is gonna go mad.

Disaster. They're shooting themselves in the foot.

steddyeddy

Stinicker wrote: »

I wish Sinn Fein could have taken control of Kerry County Council, there is most awful wastage among Kerry Co. Council. Kenmare town is in the process of getting a new bypass and work has been ongoing in it for over 4 years and it is less than 1km long. Work is carried out by Kerry Co. Council roads crews and if you trained chimpanzees and gave them shovels you'd find the road would be built quicker. It is an absolute disgrace when all road maintaince and construction should be outsourced to the private sector and this road which is 4 years in the making could have been completed in around 4 - 6 weeks for a much smaller cost than Kerry Co. Council who's main aim appears to be as a glorified Social Employment Scheme.

That won't change in a hurry considering the Healy Rae's construction business is constantly hired for every construction job the council undertakes.

steddyeddy

Valetta wrote: »

You have just quoted my post and added some random words that nobody has said.

Do you have a point to make?

I think the point is people are just looking for something to complain about.

Riskymove

Banjo String wrote: »

Do you know or just hope that will Happen?

doesn't really matter they'll just get more of the Dublin householders property tax to make it up

local spend my arse

steddyeddy

I can actually see them cutting the waste in councils.

Banjo String

Oscar Gateaux wrote: »

But we all know the property tax is only going to go up...

You still for leaving the country?

And I'm not alone in thinking that it would seem.

Despite councils having the power to reduce the property tax in the area by up to 15pc from next year, just one in 20 believe their bill will be reduced.

Under the property tax law, councils will have the power to increase or decrease the local rate by up to 15pc depending upon their financial position.

If councils feel they can manage their budgets, they can cut the property tax to be paid by homeowners in the local authority area.

However, if the council needs more money to balance the books, it can increase the rate.

Councils in Dublin, in particular, are expected to get a windfall when 80pc of the property tax revenue goes directly to the local authority where it is collected.

The huge increase in income streams, particularly in urban areas, was expected to result in cuts in the levels of property tax paid in the cities. Due to the larger density of population and properties, councils in large urban areas will get a bonanza next year when they get to keep €4 out of every €5 collected in property taxes.

The poll finds 54pc of people believe property taxes in their area will increase next year, with this view stronger among Sinn Fein voters at 63pc, 55- to 64-year-olds at 60pc, higher earners at 60pc, and people living in Leinster at 57pc.

More than four in 10 (43pc) believe property taxes will be maintained at their present rate, with their stance higher among Fine Gael supporters, 43pc, people living in Dublin 40pc, and Labour voters, 42pc.

The Labour Party had planned to make a promise to reduce property taxes the central plank of their local elections campaign.

The party had planned to pledge that its councillors would work to ensure councils they were in control of managed their spending to ensure property taxes were cut.

But the backlash against the Government parties dominated the local elections campaign, with property taxes barely being covered in the debate.

This year, the proceeds of the property tax are going to run Irish Water, before it gets its own revenue stream.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/most-homeowners-feel-property-tax-rates-will-rise-next-year-30339031.html

Flex

Banjo String wrote: »

Interesting.



I wonder how many more SF led local authorities will follow suit?

Like this bit from the article.



http://westcorktimes.com/home/archives/26143

The cosy cartels ain't gonna like the rocking of the applecarts.

Big Phil is gonna go mad.

Cork County Councils largest party is Fianna Fail

Cant believe people are cheering them on as they attempt to narrow the tax again

steddyeddy

Flex wrote: »

Cork County Councils largest party is Fianna Fail

Cant believe people are cheering them on as they attempt to narrow the tax again

Narrow the tax for ordinary people.

Banjo String

Riskymove wrote: »

doesn't really matter they'll just get more of the Dublin householders property tax to make it up

local spend my arse

I think Dublin will more than likely follow suit.

A motion to lower Louth has been postponed.

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

Do you know or just hope that will Happen?

I am just glad to see a political party following through on pre election promises tbh.

Remind me what did FG say they'd do about property tax before elections?

even if those promises lead to services cut or a problem with the budget not adding up , just to keep a pre election promise ???

Sure that is what FF?FG?LAB have been doing for decades , with comically disastrous results

Great idea , now where does the 15 % come from?

Banjo String

dj jarvis wrote: »

even if those promises lead to services cut or a problem with the budget not adding up , just to keep a pre election promise ???

Sure that is what FF?FG?LAB have been doing for decades , with comically disastrous results

Great idea , now where does the 15 % come from?

Wait. Is their an actual 15% shortfall?

How can you tell so soon?

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

Wait. Is their an actual 15% shortfall?

How can you tell so soon?

em , if you reduce the amount by 15% , then there is a 15% shortfall
the real question is can they still do the things needed for the county with 15% less LPT coming in,

If they can - fairball to the them,

but........ they are politicians , they have a habit of being spoofing ****2ers
who would say mass - Sinn Fein or not.

Their budget from last year would have been accounting the full LPT rate , not 15% less , so stands to reason it will be down by 15%

Banjo String

dj jarvis wrote: »

em , if you reduce the amount by 15% , then there is a 15% shortfall
the real question is can they still do the things needed for the county with 15% less LPT coming in,

If they can - fairball to the them,

but........ they are politicians , they have a habit of being spoofing ****2ers
who would say mass - Sinn Fein or not.

Their budget from last year would have been accounting the full LPT rate , not 15% less , so stands to reason it will be down by 15%

A shortfall is not having enough money to meet an obligation/pay a debt.

Just because they've cut it by 15% doesn't necessarily mean they will need it. You understand that, surely?

Cork County council obviously think they can streamline certain areas of the budget, and with SF eager to show transparency, I think it might just be fair to assume that their might be 15% of wastage cut out this year.

This is only the beginning. SF will be the Cat among the pigeons.

Joey JoeJoe Junior Shabadoo

They have property taxes and water charges in Northern Ireland. It's £900 per year per household, it covers bin charges, water, property tax and children's school books.

Banjo String

Joey JoeJoe Junior Shabadoo wrote: »

They have property taxes and water charges in Northern Ireland. It's £900 per year per household, it covers bin charges, water, property tax and children's school books.

No water charges in the north.

Seriously. Why do the uniformed keep repeating this

josip

househero wrote: »

A 15% reduction is not brilliant if they still dont deliver anything.

Paying 85% for nothing isn't a good deal. If they are planning on delivering 0, I would like to pay 0 please... Good Value.

We pay (a lot) for roads, the roads have holes deep enough to chat to my emigrated brother in Oz. Are they being fixed?

The alloy wheel on my car was buckled only last week (still seething after paying 360 for my road tax on the 1st) The alloy will be costing me another 200.

Be happy you're not paying 673 and can afford the alloys.

I assume they'll increase business rates if there's a budget shortfall.

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

A shortfall is not having enough money to meet an obligation/pay a debt.

Just because they've cut it by 15% doesn't necessarily mean they will need it. You understand that, surely?

Cork County council obviously think they can streamline certain areas of the budget, and with SF eager to show transparency, I think it might just be fair to assume that their might be 15% of wastage cut out this year.

This is only the beginning. SF will be the Cat among the pigeons.

funniest thing i have read in ages

yea SF , the ONLY political party that will keep its promises - EVER !!!
oh yea shinbots are in for a rude awakening , they are as useless as all the others - politics and politicians are corrupt , but dont believe me , look at history , and come back to me next election , we shall see how many of the promises they have kept

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

No water charges in the north.

Seriously. Why do the uniformed keep repeating this

they do , its included in the overall tax thy pay , why do all shinners ignore reality !!!

Oh yea , i understand now

Banjo String

dj jarvis wrote: »

funniest thing i have read in ages

Whats funny about it the Govt themselves introduced the 15% increase or decrease allowance.

Under the property tax law, councils will have the power to increase or decrease the local rate by up to 15pc depending upon their financial position.

If councils feel they can manage their budgets, they can cut the property tax to be paid by homeowners in the local authority area.

However, if the council needs more money to balance the books, it can increase the rate.

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/most-homeowners-feel-property-tax-rates-will-rise-next-year-30339031.html

dj jarvis wrote: »

yea SF , the ONLY political party that will keep its promises - EVER !!!
oh yea shinbots are in for a rude awakening , they are as useless as all the others - politics and politicians are corrupt , but dont believe me , look at history , and come back to me next election , we shall see how many of the promises they have kept

You were doing so well.

Banjo String

dj jarvis wrote: »

they do , its included in the overall tax thy pay , why do all shinners ignore reality !!!

Oh yea , i understand now

Well someone should tell that to Westminster who attempted to introduce the charges earlier this year.

Besides. If water charges are included in rates, that just further highlights the value for money in domestic rates compared to the lpt.

You didn't think that one through really. Did you?

fleet_admiral

didnt the shinners say they would abolish it, not 'cut' it

SEPT 23 1989

Sure just whack another 15% increase in rates on those evil capitalist small business owners to make up the difference

steddyeddy

I love economics that goes on in this thread. Take away 15% where will we find another ect. We don't know that there is a 15% shortfall. They have eliminated waste in the council itself for all we know.

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

Well someone should tell that to Westminster who attempted to introduce the charges earlier this year.

Besides. If water charges are included in rates, that just further highlights the value for money in domestic rates compared to the lpt.

You didn't think that one through really. Did you?

oh yes i did - you see , you can ignore the fact , that in the end , the good folk up north ARE PAYING FOR THEIR WATER , and i never said LPT was value for money

again , SF supporters , bending reality to make it fit their agenda

so , can you fill me in on how SF are going to be the only political party , globally , in history , to reduce taxes , increase services and service the crippling national debt ???

Cloud cuckoo land , and i would be saying the very same to a FF , FG or LAB supporter ,
i think people like to forget we are tied into the fiscal compact , you should read up on it , its great !!! , its not 2 more budgets of austerity , it FOREVER !!!!!!

oh , wait , SF is going to tax the rich LOL - like the rich have ever paid for anything - but i suppose they can get there old leg breaking equipment out , so they can collect the vast wealth from the rich ( who by the way , PAY THE MOST TAX ALREADY )

laughable !!!

Banjo String

dj jarvis wrote: »

oh yes i did - you see , you can ignore the fact , that in the end , the good folk up north ARE PAYING FOR THEIR WATER , and i never said LPT was value for money

Pointless circular argument. We're also already paying for water. (Unless it hasn't been funded by tax up until now?)

dj jarvis wrote: »

again , SF supporters , bending reality to make it fit their agenda

No, the reality is they don't have separate water charges in the north. Let me know how this is confusing you? How am I bending facts to fit my agenda?

dj jarvis wrote: »

so , can you fill me in on how SF are going to be the only political party , globally , in history , to reduce taxes , increase services and service the crippling national debt ???

I said that

dj jarvis wrote: »

Cloud cuckoo land , and i would be saying the very same to a FF , FG or LAB supporter ,
i think people like to forget we are tied into the fiscal compact , you should read up on it , its great !!! , its not 2 more budgets of austerity , it FOREVER !!!!!!

oh , wait , SF is going to tax the rich LOL - like the rich have ever paid for anything - but i suppose they can get there old leg breaking equipment out , so they can collect the vast wealth from the rich ( who by the way , PAY THE MOST TAX ALREADY )

Mmmmm. You've stooped.

dj jarvis wrote: »

laughable !!!

You said it DJ.

You said it.

Guy:Incognito

If FF make up the majority, is it not them that reduced it by 15%?:)

steddyeddy wrote: »

They have eliminated waste in the council itself for all we know.

I'd imagine a 15% reduction in the whole councils spending would be fairly obvious no? and if it isn't, why did it not form a large part of the news about it. Surely the savings are a point they would be pushing?

dj jarvis

Banjo String wrote: »

Pointless circular argument. We're also already paying for water. (Unless it hasn't been funded by tax up until now?)

No, the reality is they don't have separate water charges in the north. Let me know how this is confusing you? How am I bending facts to fit my agenda?


I said that



Mmmmm. You've stooped.




You said it DJ.

You said it.

1: i never said we were not already paying for our water - im against water charges - again bending to fit , tut tut
2:they pay for water up north , just like we do now , with taxes , its not for free , we are just going to be hit TWICE , does not change the fact that up north , they pay
3:yes , with your rhetoric , you are alluding that they will solve all ills, "cat amounts the pigeons " , again fantasy land.
4: i stooped ??? by pointing out the awful truth that not a decade ago , they were leg breaking a go go, truth hurts i suppose.


and yes , i did say it , laughable , as laughable as it would be if you were a FF/FG/LAB supporter

No Pants

I think it should be possible in the major population centres of the country if they are allowed to keep the LPT collected in their area. The problem is that so much of it is then sent to Sligo, Donegal, Leitrim, etc.

dj jarvis

fleet_admiral wrote: »

didnt the shinners say they would abolish it, not 'cut' it

no , they worded it in such a way , that if they dont do it , they can worm their way out of it , just like all the other useless crunts .

they said the will abolish , if they are ABLE and CAN

easy answer when they dont is , we could not
cold reality will hit if they have to put a budget together , not so long ago the SF finance team came out of a meeting with the late Brian lennihan to cost their budget , after actually seeing the books , ashen faced they came from finance , quoting " we knew it was bad , but not that bad "
blew ALL their costing out the window - and the books at the moment will present the same problems , a part of the governments plan is to push the national debt out for so long that inflation will solve the issue

problem is , we are stagnant inflation wise, with the risk of deflation , while still paying the 6 billion a year in interest payments , they are playing a very dangerous game - SF could inherit all this

so getting rid of water charges is not looking likely for the foreseeable future , how could they ?
oh yea tax the rich

gandalf

SF = the new FF

No Pants

No Pants wrote: »

I think it should be possible in the major population centres of the country if they are allowed to keep the LPT collected in their area. The problem is that so much of it is then sent to Sligo, Donegal, Leitrim, etc.

What's wrong with sligo, donegal and leitrim?

No Pants

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

What's wrong with sligo, donegal and leitrim?

Nothing, but they are subsidised by Dublin and maybe Cork and others. If this subsidy stopped, Dublin at least could lower their rate by 15% at least.

steddyeddy

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

If FF make up the majority, is it not them that reduced it by 15%?:)





I'd imagine a 15% reduction in the whole councils spending would be fairly obvious no? and if it isn't, why did it not form a large part of the news about it. Surely the savings are a point they would be pushing?

I have no idea but they might yet make savings. I think they'll be more likely to make changes to the councils than long standing FF or FG council seat holders. A lot of the massive waste in Wicklow and Dublin CCs have been associated with cronyism.

dj jarvis

No Pants wrote: »

Nothing, but they are subsidised by Dublin and maybe Cork and others. If this subsidy stopped, Dublin at least could lower their rate by 15% at least.

but it does not work that way - one for all , all for one

using that logic - Dublin should just leave the Republic and declare Independence , and Cork and Galway ect ect

dxhound2005

Grandstanding by Sinn Fein in the same way that they grandstanded by introducing two bills to the Oreachtas to abolish the Household Charge and then LPT. Knowing that neither had any chance of succeeding. This time they will be able to claim that the council can't implement the resolution when they cannot satisfy one or other of the conditions in the legislation. See Section 20 pages 19/20 here:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/pdf/2012/en.act.2012.0052.pdf

They will then claim that is is central government which is standing in the way.

They are in coalition in the North but they never even campaigned there for the abolition of property tax never mind introduce legislation.

Expect the same grandstanding around the country.

Kermit.de.frog

First test of Sinn Féin's voodoo economics. Where are they going to make up the difference?

No Pants

dj jarvis wrote: »

but it does not work that way - one for all , all for one

using that logic - Dublin should just leave the Republic and declare Independence , and Cork and Galway ect ect

I agree. I'm just saying that it's possible. Given how parochial Irish politics is and the recent run of independents, I'm sure it will be proposed.

I'm not the only one that's thinking about this.

Rightwing

The councils rank along with Fas for the biggest waste of money. There is absolutely no need for water charges or property. Just cut the bonuses and perks.