GLAS scheme

theaceofspies

This is starting to look like a real coup for the Minister. A real slick way of getting the Department of Agriculture budget within target for the year. A classic Accounting stoke.

http://www.agriland.ie/news/coveney-red-tape-forces-thousands-wait-extra-year-glas-payments-o-cuiv/

theaceofspies

stoke stroke

Conmaicne Mara

Paid in time for the next scheduled GE, stroke indeed.

Farrell

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Paid in time for the next scheduled GE, stroke indeed.

When is the details coming out.
Word allot of us might not get accepted, as not stocked enough or wrong side of the Shannon. Time will tell

rangler1

Farrell wrote: »

When is the details coming out.
Word allot of us might not get accepted, as not stocked enough or wrong side of the Shannon. Time will tell

supposed to open for 30000 the first year. unlikely that that many will apply so there'll be no prioritising, everyone should get in.....years 2+3 will be restricted to 10,000 so try to be in the first year.

Conmaicne Mara

rangler1 wrote: »

everyone should get in.....

A lot of commonage farmers won't with the 80%+ 50%+ rules. They are being discriminated against, no farmer has control over any other farmer.

supersean1999

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

A lot of commonage farmers won't with the 80%+ 50%+ rules. They are being discriminated against, no farmer has control over any other farmer.

I know what your saying and I agree, but that 80% nonsense is not set in stone yet,the last I heard, what a load of nonsense it is , it's just not credible, where is the new commanage framework plans, complete joke the dep are regarding the hills,

Conmaicne Mara

supersean1999 wrote: »

I know what your saying and I agree, but that 80% nonsense is not set in stone yet,the last I heard, what a load of nonsense it is , it's just not credible, where is the new commanage framework plans, complete joke the dep are regarding the hills,

Dept are not for changing on it Sean, have that from the horses mouth, at the same time it's completely unacceptable to commonage farmers and won't be taken lying down.

What I am told about the CFP is the Minister is afraid of it, thinking it'll turn into another "bogs" issue (if it wasn't so important I'd have no issue if it did with this particular Minister). That tells you all you need to know about what he knows about it, SFA. His officials and farmers reps are all wanting to get into negotiations, it's Coveney holding things up.

We're having a regional meeting in Clifden tonight regarding GLAS for commonage farmers and also the predicament of farmers in former Duchas schemes who have been destocked, they now find themselves without stock and without payments due to not having the correct stocking levels. Dept are telling them to go back up in numbers that the dept destocked them from in the first place :rolleyes: Yet, the new CFP when ever it's done will more than likely tell those same farmers to come down in stock numbers again. (The frightening thing is that any farmer can be bullied by the dept in the way these farmers have).

The farmers know it won't work but dept aren't listening.

It would be slapstick stuff if real peoples incomes weren't dependent on it.

Conmaicne Mara

Farrell wrote: »

When is the details coming out.
Word allot of us might not get accepted, as not stocked enough or wrong side of the Shannon. Time will tell

I haven't heard much in the line of details yet. Not heard about stocking levels either.

blue5000

Does anyone know what the FACTS are on this yet? All I know is 5k is the max, and to be honest as a full time farmer I don't think it's worthwhile.

leoch

Wat about if U already in aeos can U get into glas or would U have to leave one for the other

rangler1

leoch wrote: »

Wat about if U already in aeos can U get into glas or would U have to leave one for the other

You have to finish aeos first, and you can't leave it to go to glas.

rangler1

blue5000 wrote: »

Does anyone know what the FACTS are on this yet? All I know is 5k is the max, and to be honest as a full time farmer I don't think it's worthwhile.

Definitely you'll spend a higher proportion of glas money on complying than you ever did on REPS and after the problem with the overclaiming, the dept are going to run this by the book and we can't really blame them

Conmaicne Mara

rangler1 wrote: »

You have to finish aeos first, and you can't leave it to go to glas.

AEOS 3 you can jump into GLAS afaik

supersean1999

Its getting the stage soon. Id imagine a few mountain lambs will be let in coveneys office door. Con nothing is set in stone until its signed into. How the hell will they control the hills. Thats what we have been told there concern is..

Farrell

On commonage would there be places where rights would of died with people emigrating or died with no next of kin/will etc.

Conmaicne Mara

supersean1999 wrote: »

Its getting the stage soon. Id imagine a few mountain lambs will be let in coveneys office door. Con nothing is set in stone until its signed into. How the hell will they control the hills. Thats what we have been told there concern is..

Their concern is with their inspections being audited by Europe, and the country losing money on the back of deductions due to ineligible areas. I can agree with it, by the way, however what I can't agree with it is the cack handed way they're going about things.

As of last Friday there was no give on the 80% rule.

They will control them as they always have, with the giving or the taking away of € and stock. Regards the aforementioned Duchas scheme, there are farmers in this area without BOTH stock and payments. That was forced upon them by the department, it wasn't voluntary.

If that tactic is allowed to stand they can do it on any hill in the country, including yours or mine.

There is a lot of activity in the hills lately, with more support coming from outside hill areas than ever I've seen before.

Farrell wrote: »

On commonage would there be places where rights would of died with people emigrating or died with no next of kin/will etc.

There's basically three types of shares on commonages. The dormant share who's owner may not be known, or they may have no interest in farming at all (i.e. they're not claiming any sub or grazing). The inactive share, where a farmer is claiming on that ground without grazing it (he's in a lot of hot water currently). The active share where a farmer is both claiming on that ground and also grazing it.

AFAIK rights don't "die out".

supersean1999

So unless 80% of the people agree to join glas your screwed. Con what would your thoughts be . If it were compulsory for every one to join. In order to claim sfp or das.

Conmaicne Mara

supersean1999 wrote: »

So unless 80% of the people agree to join glas your screwed. Con what would your thoughts be . If it were compulsory for every one to join. In order to claim sfp or das.

80% for tier one, 50% for tier two, no one I have talked to is in favour of it. As one man said to me "Your name shouldn't be on my business and mine shouldn't be on yours". It was also described as a "Dirty rotten move" and "Getting the farmers to do the Departments work" (i.e. "controlling" other farmers).

I'm not in favour of compulsory GLAS at all, it should be on an individual basis. CFP, allegedly, will sort out stocking numbers to keep land in GAEC. GLAS would have to go above and beyond what you have to do to claim SFP & DAS AFAIK.

I am in favour of a Burren Life type scheme for designated uplands though. As far as I believe there is nothing there for a farmer with designated lands except hassle and restrictions.

supersean1999

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

80% for tier one, 50% for tier two, no one I have talked to is in favour of it. As one man said to me "Your name shouldn't be on my business and mine shouldn't be on yours". It was also described as a "Dirty rotten move" and "Getting the farmers to do the Departments work" (i.e. "controlling" other farmers).

I'm not in favour of compulsory GLAS at all, it should be on an individual basis. CFP, allegedly, will sort out stocking numbers to keep land in GAEC. GLAS would have to go above and beyond what you have to do to claim SFP & DAS AFAIK.

I am in favour of a Burren Life type scheme for designated uplands though. As far as I believe there is nothing there for a farmer with designated lands except hassle and restrictions.

Ya but as you know its not the 80 that will cause the hills to be in bad shape etc. Its the renegades with 500 sheep on one share. How will a hill ever be in gac

Conmaicne Mara

supersean1999 wrote: »

Ya but as you know its not the 80 that will cause the hills to be in bad shape etc. Its the renegades with 500 sheep on one share. How will a hill ever be in gac

Agree with you completely. There's only one nasty way out of that, unfortunately, it involves a farmer picking up the phone and reporting the other farmer abusing the commonage. We have been through that issue time and again and no workable ideas came to pass. I would propose a confidential system to do that, as rural communities are small places with long memories.

At the same time, these guys have been f*cking over their neighbours for a long time so I have little sympathy for them. I did propose an "amnesty" for untagged sheep to bring them into line with everyone else but two things, I wouldn't be confident they would use it, and the sheep were deemed illegal by the EU so the proposal didn't go very far.

From what I have heard going forward the EU are hinting at the view of paying NO shareholder on an abused commonage, not just not paying the abuser, but paying no one at all.

buffalobilly

What would be considered abused commonage

Conmaicne Mara

buffalobilly wrote: »

What would be considered abused commonage

Commonage that isn't in Good Agricultural and Environmental Condition, don't think there's a proper definition for that yet. It's a bit like Goldilocks porridge, Overgrazed is bad, Undergrazed is bad, so it has to be grazed just right - which is the problem, who defines and decides what "just right" actually is?

supersean1999

What ever birds breed in

Farrell

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

Their concern is with their inspections being audited by Europe, and the country losing money on the back of deductions due to ineligible areas. I can agree with it, by the way, however what I can't agree with it is the cack handed way they're going about things.

As of last Friday there was no give on the 80% rule.

They will control them as they always have, with the giving or the taking away of € and stock. Regards the aforementioned Duchas scheme, there are farmers in this area without BOTH stock and payments. That was forced upon them by the department, it wasn't voluntary.

If that tactic is allowed to stand they can do it on any hill in the country, including yours or mine.

There is a lot of activity in the hills lately, with more support coming from outside hill areas than ever I've seen before.



There's basically three types of shares on commonages. The dormant share who's owner may not be known, or they may have no interest in farming at all (i.e. they're not claiming any sub or grazing). The inactive share, where a farmer is claiming on that ground without grazing it (he's in a lot of hot water currently). The active share where a farmer is both claiming on that ground and also grazing it.

AFAIK rights don't "die out".

Was thinking you'd say that.
If there was something that could be done with the dormant shares.
Then the inactive will either buck up or sell up.

As you say further down, there's a fine line to just right, so like a football team, you need every player pulling their weight

rangler1

Conmaicne Mara wrote: »

AEOS 3 you can jump into GLAS afaik

I'm not sure, thought commonage farmers could only leave aeos if something better came along..... is that GLAS

moy83

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm not sure, thought commonage farmers could only leave aeos if something better came along..... is that GLAS

Im not too well up on it but I'd say you might have less hassle out of AEOS and for the same return as GLAS so dont think too many will want to swop

Conmaicne Mara

Farrell wrote: »

Was thinking you'd say that.
If there was something that could be done with the dormant shares.
Then the inactive will either buck up or sell up.

As you say further down, there's a fine line to just right, so like a football team, you need every player pulling their weight

There's a problem for the active farmer with the inactive farmer. Where the problem lies is, if the inactive farmers current payment is threatened (because he's not actively grazing) they will put up in a lot of cases, what will turn out to be, unsuitable animals which will in turn do more harm to others than good by staying by fences or scattering to the four winds across other commonages.

The Dept propose the inactive farmer rents his entitlements and % share of the animals on the land to the active farmer. The other one they had was that the inactive farmer would pay the active farmer to farm their share. I can't see either being a runner.

We had proposed that an inactive farmer could do a deal with the active farmer simply, by letting the active farmer farm their share of the animals, by voluntary agreement if the demand was there from the active farmer. By that mechanism GAEC would be met by having a stocking number for the commonage, everyone gets paid, no issue with over or under grazing.

If the demand isn't there, the inactive guy will have to actively graze the land.

rangler1 wrote: »

I'm not sure, thought commonage farmers could only leave aeos if something better came along..... is that GLAS

The best of my information says only farmers in AEOS3 will be allowed "jump" into GLAS from an existing scheme, so AEOS 1 & 2 will have to finish out their contract. Will GLAS be better? Simple answer I don't know, it will entirely depend on the entry criteria and the details of both GLAS and GLAS+. Most of which we don't know yet.

moy83 wrote: »

Im not too well up on it but I'd say you might have less hassle out of AEOS and for the same return as GLAS so dont think too many will want to swop

I'd agree, even if I had the option to go from AEOS1 to GLAS I doubt I'd do it, there'd want to be a fairly juicy carrot dangled in front of me.

Conmaicne Mara

Bit of action on the go, we're off to Dublins fair city soon :cool:

larrymiller

Well what yee think of the journal today plenty of stuff on it only flicked through it myself

rangler1

larrymiller wrote: »

Well what yee think of the journal today plenty of stuff on it only flicked through it myself

I think the journal is being a bit optimistic.
When I heard it first a couple days ago, I was wondering was I missing something......seems I wasn't.
It'll be very hard to get anything worthwhile out of it.
Glas could have been a way to get millions from Brussels into rural Ireland, all the government had to do is match the funding and get their contribution back in tax. Publis service are not even trying to get this country out of this mess

blue5000

http://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2014/july/title,76733,en.html

Anyone got ideas for making the most of this?
I see Chough farm scheme pays €365 /ha Does this mean we have to catch a few crows and paint their beaks/ legs red:rolleyes:

Also I see island farmers get €150 ha top up for up to 20ha. Ireland is an island off the north west coast of Europe. Does this mean we all qualify for this one??

Vandy West

How do you prove you have some of those birds on your land to get into tier one? What would you have to do or not do if have some of those birds?

Capercaille

Vandy West wrote: »

How do you prove you have some of those birds on your land to get into tier one? What would you have to do or not do if have some of those birds?

I'm in the Corncrake grant scheme this year. I have 1-2 calling males. You report the birds to the NPWS. A fieldworker verifies that the bird(s) are present. Delayed mowing till September 1st with slow centre-out mowing. Have to get the fieldworker to supervise mowing. The land is eligible for grant if a male corncake is calling within 250m.

moy83

Capercaille wrote: »

I'm in the Corncrake grant scheme this year. I have 1-2 calling males. You report the birds to the NPWS. A fieldworker verifies that the bird(s) are present. Delayed mowing till September 1st with slow centre-out mowing. Have to get the fieldworker to supervise mowing. The land is eligible for grant if a male corncake is calling within 250m.

Is that 250 metres ? Are there any other birds that the grant can be used for ?

Mad4simmental

Capercaille wrote: »

I'm in the Corncrake grant scheme this year. I have 1-2 calling males. You report the birds to the NPWS. A fieldworker verifies that the bird(s) are present. Delayed mowing till September 1st with slow centre-out mowing. Have to get the fieldworker to supervise mowing. The land is eligible for grant if a male corncake is calling within 250m.

How do you make silage if you cannot mow untill September?

Capercaille

moy83 wrote: »

Is that 250 metres ? Are there any other birds that the grant can be used for ?

95% of female corncrake nest within 250metres of a calling corncrake. The 250metre rule is specific for corncrake.

Capercaille

Mad4simmental wrote: »

How do you make silage if you cannot mow untill September?

Bale wrapped. I sell the bales.

Conmaicne Mara

rangler1 wrote: »

I think the journal is being a bit optimistic.

The technical term there is "spin" I believe

Lano Lynn

credit where credit is due Brendan smith delivered AEOS without the need for reps planners etc....coveny seems to believe these gougers need preserving like rare breeds:D

moy83

Lano Lynn wrote: »

credit where credit is due Brendan smith delivered AEOS without the need for reps planners etc....coveny seems to believe these gougers need preserving like rare breeds:D

True . I reckon the only rare breed Coveney is preserving is himself

blue5000

Capercaille wrote: »

I'm in the Corncrake grant scheme this year. I have 1-2 calling males. You report the birds to the NPWS. A fieldworker verifies that the bird(s) are present. Delayed mowing till September 1st with slow centre-out mowing. Have to get the fieldworker to supervise mowing. The land is eligible for grant if a male corncake is calling within 250m.

Any chance of a few chicks, I have some habitat that might suit them. If this country can spend 27m to bring in eagles surely I could get a few quid for corncrakes?:)

Capercaille

blue5000 wrote: »

Any chance of a few chicks, I have some habitat that might suit them. If this country can spend 27m to bring in eagles surely I could get a few quid for corncrakes?:)

The only chance you have of getting corncrake is to be in the correct location. No chance of Corncrake grant in Tipp. Sadly they are long gone from Tipp. Only now found in West Mayo, Connemara, North West Donegal.

blue5000

None left in Shannon callows in Offaly?

Capercaille

blue5000 wrote: »

None left in Shannon callows in Offaly?

I've heard of none, sadly. Only 3 calling males on callows last year. Good numbers however in Mayo, Connemara and Donegal. Islands doing very well.

tabby aspreme

The future for the planners looks very secure, does anyone know how many hectares of low input permanent pasture they allow , doesn't look like much else for someone with dry ground who is finishing Reps 4 this year

RobertKK

What is involved with low input permanent pasture?

Lano Lynn

the really stupid thing is I have an area that is really naturally biodiverse that the SFP inspectors reduced down to 10% (I don't have much 'waste' area but like to have somewhere left for nature to rule supreme)I can mill into it with a minidigger some weekend upsetting the whole ecosystem and sow oats etc and the GLAS will pay wildbird cover at 900e/ha way more profit than sheep or cattle.

Ironically most of the areas deducted from SFP under the GAEC (good agricultural and environmental condition) rules they could be designated as zones of high natural value (ZHNV) and in actual fact enhance the environment (rushes along a river bank provide a superb buffer zone and filter system against runoff, sporadic patches of gorse invariably support nest sites for birds,and the edges of farm road ways are fantastic providers of feeding sites for birds) I believe a percentage (1 to 5%) of every farm should have to have ZHNV and payed double the SFP rate for it.

moy83

€900 per ha :eek: . I would condsider signing up for that .

Username John

moy83 wrote: »

€900 per ha :eek: . I would condsider signing up for that .

I was just thinking the same thing meself Moy

Charliebull

moy83 wrote: »

€900 per ha :eek: . I would condsider signing up for that .

Where do I sign, cows to the mart next week